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makeyourheadgopop
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
 Posted - 01/14/2003 : 11:44:31
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Preface:
I originally posted this on another board. They have been my music discussion forum for a few years, and recently I decided to check out my first Frank Black concert. I asked said board their opinions on Frank Black post Pixies (Since, I admittedly had no experience in his recent work). I got a lot of "It's all been down hill", "not the same", "lazy", blah blah blah. I went to the concert to see for myself what Frank had been up to and it was incredible. Anyone who could say any of the forementioned things about Frank Black is simply not listening. I wanted to share this rant with your forum: It's the honest opinion of a young guy (me) who wasn't around for The Pixies, and has had mass quantities of Frank Black to digest in the past year or two. I thought you all might enjoy hearing what a clean slate has to say about Frank Black, post pixies
So this past month or two I've ONLY been listening to Frank Black. It started with seeing him in concert at the Black Cat, 2 nights in a row on his recent tour, and I'll be the first to admit: I went to see the former lead singer of the Pixies, if you know what I mean.
A lot of people told me "Ah, he's bitter and lazy now, nothing lives up to his work with the Pixies... it won't be worth your money". (hey, I've payed 15 bucks for complete shit bands... I went thinking "how can I go wrong with frank black?)
So when I went to that concert, I was completely impressed. Going in, not expecting more of the Pixies was a great way to go in. I loved all of the songs, I loved the acoustics, I loved the stage presense and I loved the Catholics, who are a fantastic band. Rich is one hell of a guitar player. I loved the steel guitars and I loved intro music, and I just can't say enough about how above and beyond their performance was.
So, I remembered a few "hooks" from a few of my favorite performaces of the night, most of which I found out later were on "Black Letter Days", his recent album. I bought it, and fell in love with it, and since then I have been eating up his other solo albums like candy. Some of them are slightly dissapointing for various reasons, and I can see where some of his critics get fodder for name calling like "lazy", etc... But so far I have listened to: (and by listened to, I mean intensely studied):
Teenager of the Year
Cult of Ray
The Catholics (debut)
Black Letter Days
Devil's Workshop
Now, my initial fascination with "Black Letter Days" aside, I have fully become obsessed with "Teenager of the Year".
It has NOT left my CD changer since I bought it. I listen to it at least once a day, and I find that I sing songs from it in the shower, etc. that are my LEAST favorites. Not that I dislike any of it. on my first go through I had some favorite songs, Thallasocracy, just rocks the house. The album is truly an incredibly well written and well drawn out vision, and I can't get enough....
Listening to Cult of Ray and the Catholics debut, they are definately weaker than say, Teenager of the Year, or Black letter days (in my humble opinion). You can interpret "Lazy" in the vocals, and in the song writing. But to me, it seems might be frustrated with himself. Hearing "Black Letter Days" though, makes up for that period, because it proves that he was leading up to something bigger. He, with the catholics, has by now mastered this technique of recording live to two tracks, and just they needed some time to get the hang of doing it with gusto
It seems to me like after Teenager of the Year, he was tired of making these masterful studio albums and wanted a challenge. On the surface, you can call that lazy, but I think it's downright heroic.
Now, Devil's Workshop, released at the same time as Black Letter Days is something of a mess. There might be good songs on there, but I don't know I can't really hear them. This seems like an instance where their live two track recording has hit a roadblock: lack of preparation. I mostly agree with the critics on this one. There might be good tunes in there, but it seems like they weren't fully prepared when they began recording. Or you know what? He might be leading up to something else. These live to tape albums are very exciting. It's like watching a jazz concert. You go to see you favorite musician because you know there's a good change it's going to rule, but the most excitment comes from the fact that he could make a mistake at any time. Frank black is hardcore. he is doing risky business when he surely doesn't need to, and that is commendable.
All that said, I am very curious about his other Albums.
Frank Black (debut)
Pistolero
Dog in the Sand
I think those are the other three?
Anyway, this has been my little rant to anyone who says that Frank Black is through. My summary is that he's accepted his status as a brilliant artist with The Pixies, and has left it fondly behind and has now challenged himself to do it again in different ways. I'll be damned it it's not fascinating to watch him piece it together over and over. |
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2003 : 12:38:18
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"fritz" here.
again, don't give up on devil's workshop, and definitely purchase dog in the sand as soon as possible. nice to have you here!
-dan |
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Thomas
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1615 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2003 : 13:26:20
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quote:
Originally posted by makeyourheadgopop
I have fully become obsessed with "Teenager of the Year".
It has NOT left my CD changer since I bought it.
My copy of TOTY is of the cassette kind. It was purchased around the time it was released. It has been in my car since date of purchase and on regular, radio is boring time for tape, rotation. It even survived a car accident.
TOTY, it takes a licking and keeps on RAWKIN'!
Thomas
"It's the Nexus of the Crisis"
BÖCswu |
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JamesM
= Cult of Ray =
308 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2003 : 13:34:49
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The first Frank Black is album is somewhat similiar to TotY, although the songs aren't generally as good (although they're all fabulous; especially Don't Ya Rile 'Em and Places Named After Numbers), Pistolero sounds like Neil Young and Crazy Horse with Frank's voice in place of Neil (highlights: So. Bay, Skeleton Man [though most would disagree]), Dog in the Sand is absolutley essential Frank Black as most people will tell you. Usually either ties, comes just short of, or barely passed TotY in most peoples favorite Frank albums list. It's probably my favorite FB album (check out Bullet, I've Seen Your Picture, St. Fran--fuck it. The entire album IS a highlight).
-Jimmy M. |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2003 : 13:42:53
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i love devil's workshop. i listen to it more often than BLD.
dog in the sand is a great album also. |
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carsonwerner
= Cult of Ray =
USA
254 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2003 : 14:38:05
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| Yeah, dog in the sand is certainly incredible, I'd get it next |
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mereubu
= FB QuizMistress =
USA
2677 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2003 : 14:45:30
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| Welcome aboard! Man, I listened to TOTY every day for at least a year. What an endlessly fascinating album. Definitely pick up Dog in the Sand soon. I love Pistolero--it's a little harder and crunchier than the others. Keep working on Devil's Workshop. I like BLD so much that it took me awhile to get into DW, but eventually songs started sticking in my head. I mean, my God, I initially thought that I didn't like The Scene! If you persevere you will be rewarded. |
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Visiting Sasquatch
= Cult of Ray =
USA
451 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2003 : 16:08:39
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quote:
Originally posted by mereubu
Man, I listened to TOTY every day for at least a year
Ditto! I was blown away the first time I heard that album. Instant Frank Black fan! |
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makeyourheadgopop
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2003 : 19:25:30
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| Thanks for being so receptive guys... I will definately try out Devil's Workshop a few more times. I'm not one to easily give up on an album. Anyway, it's exciting, because I can always count on that from Frank Black; that is, if I don't like something the first time, I tend to think I need to listen to it until it grows on me, rather than dismiss it. He has insane integrity like that, and that's why I'm a fan. |
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JamesM
= Cult of Ray =
308 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2003 : 20:13:12
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I didn't like Devil's Workshop at first, and while it's far from one of my favorites, it's still pretty solid. I kind of think of it like The Cult of Ray. A -lot- of great songs, but they don't work that well in an album context. Live, they'll blow you away, I'm sure (haven't had a chance to hear the new songs live, I have to wait about two years between Franks visits to St. Louis).
-Jimmy M. |
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Omer
= Cult of Ray =
275 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2003 : 13:38:03
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I gotta say Devil's Workshop doesn't sound as good as Black Letter Days. Maybe it's my copy? Or maybe there are just too many really loud guitars? Some songs like 'The Scene' and 'Out of State' are really great but the sound quality is disappointing. His Kingly Cave might just be the best song in both albums (although California Bound and 21 Reasons are fantastic, as is Velvety, as is 1826, and...:-)
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2003 : 14:28:00
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| I agree that DW doesn't seem as well produced as BLD. Forget which tracks in particular, but in places the bass sounds muddier that would be intended. |
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misterwoe
= Cult of Ray =
Greece
675 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2003 : 16:17:39
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I think it is funny how with the past few FB albums I didn't really like them too much the first time I heard them, but after a few more times they soon became infatuations, so to speak, of mine.
Leonard Cohen is cool. |
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frankblackphx
= Cult of Ray =
USA
287 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2003 : 17:20:44
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Welcome aboard. It was great reading your post because it just really reaffirms what a masterpiece TOTY is. It is my Favorite album Frank has ever done. I purchased the day it came out and it is a great perspective to see some one listen to it 8 years later and still have the same feelings. It is a timeless album.
As for the ones you don't have, Dog In The Sand and Self Titled are number 2 and 3 as favorite Frank albums. Definitely pick them up.
I actually prefer the production on Devil's Workshop. I prefered BLD at first as well but DW has really grown on me and is starting to become a classic. Bartholmew, The Scene, San Antonio TX are all amazing. Right now I am falling in love with Heloise. Incredible Tune. |
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misterwoe
= Cult of Ray =
Greece
675 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2003 : 20:04:53
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Teenager of the Year is the one that got me hooked.
Those newer songs really do seem to grow on you don't they?
I especially enjoy whiskey in your shoes off devils workshop.
Leonard Cohen is cool.
"What the fuck are we doing in the desert?" |
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misterwoe
= Cult of Ray =
Greece
675 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2003 : 20:28:46
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I like Teenager of the Year of year so much it as actually worth writing it out; Teenager of the Year.
Leonard Cohen is cool.
"What the fuck are we doing in the desert?" |
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Chip Away Boy
= Cult of Ray =
914 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2003 : 22:08:12
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welcome aboard, glad to hear you've caught the fever.
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Evil Toaster
- FB Fan -
South Africa
11 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2003 : 07:28:02
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Hell yeah, TOtY is an awesome album, it was the first FB album i'd purchased, and i was still heavily into the pixies at the time, at first, it was a little disorienting, but as i listened to it over and over, i kept finding a new song that i liked more than the others. I think over the course of 6 years or so, almost every song on the album has been a favourite. ;) My favourite at the moment is Big Red.
Anyhow, the new albums seriously rock, i got DW before BLD, and i thought it was a rocking album, me and my friend are considering using whisky in my shoes as a really fast drinking game. I found that BLD took a lot longer to grow on me. I liked the black rider the second i heard it, but the other songs took quite a few more listens before i really got into them.
Still, i find that to really appreciate any frank black album, it is required that you listen to it at LEAST 5 times. :)
*Toaster of Breads, Scourge of the Seven Barkeries* |
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themaninblack
- FB Fan -
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2003 : 23:30:46
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Big Red does rawk don't it? It's got a cool/swing edge to it, sort of like a surf-beatnik-in-space-without-a-care-in-the-world thing going.
I'm currently enjoying my copy of Oddballs though--listening to Village of the Sun over and over... thanks and mad-propps to those who clued me in.
Are they grey or is it my own nation? |
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kempes
- FB Fan -
Ireland
49 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2003 : 02:53:11
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hello,
makeyourheadgopop, try to download SVMGD, Sunday Valley Mean Groove Day or whatever it is called, it was let outta the bag on napster, most of the stuff on it has ended up out on the 2 recent records and on b-sides etc... but there is some nice other stuff on it all the time.
Kempes |
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Black Frank
- FB Fan -
10 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2003 : 18:07:35
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I know what this person is talking about.
I went to a FB concert when they came here to toronto @ horseshoe tavern and since then I haven't stopped listening to FB. I am on the road to obsession as well. |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 06:30:51
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Yo, welcome to the forum!
I agree, Self Titled Album takes a few listens but kicks fucking arse. In fact that is an album that I listen to and remember the summer that I first started playing the album. I reckon they are all good, although I'd say that I liked DW before BLD, that took a good deal of listening. In fact, all of them take a bit of listening at first, but thats the beauty of them! Enjoy mate, I can remember first discovering Frank Black and constantly looking forward to playing his tunes, when I was at work etc etc. |
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gimmedead
- FB Fan -
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 13:51:58
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it's so interesting to read everyone's "how long it took for this album to grow on me" spiel. for real, i love it.
i stopped buying frank black records after pistolero was released because i wasn't into his solo stuff as much as i tried to convince myself. i found myself buying fb & the c's because i liked frank black the man, and ex-pixies frontman. so as new records came out, i figured i'd just get them eventually. well after seeing frank live for the 2nd time in DC a couple months ago, i immediately got back on track and bought black letter days, dog in the sand, and finally devils workshop.
i'm now a frank black and the catholics fan, and have separated him from the pixies. officially. i must say black letter days hooked me from the start, and dog in the sand took a couple listens. devils workshop definitely does not sound like it debuted in the "black letter days era" but like others have already said: there's some differences in the recording, not to mention the absence of rich gilbert.
of the older stuff...i prefer the self-entitled over toty, but they're both so immensely amazing i still find and hear new things when i listen to these records.
pistolero is on top for me cause it's a little darker than the rest. let us know what you think of pistolero when you buy it! |
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makeyourheadgopop
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 17:57:29
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Update:
I have been listening to Dog in the Sand for the past few weeks. I love it. Am I the only person who hears Bowie when listening to this? I mean listen to "If It Takes All Night" and some of the piano work on "Hunky Dory" back to back. There are a lot of other subtle similarities between Hunky Dory and Dog in the Sand. It's fantastic. That's my "Getting charged up to play shows" song, "If It Takes All Night". There's some really really great lyricism on the album too.
"If your heart is sad
Give your dog a bone
See her in the sand
This is your new home"
St. Francis Dam Distaster is beautiful... (hooray for banjos). Stupid Me. Bullet. Great, great.
albums left ot investigate: Pistolero, Frank Black debut. |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 18:58:32
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My first foray into the world of Frank Black was Teenager of the Year. I was a big fan of They Might Be Giants (well, I still am, although I'm not as obsessed as I was at that point), and I knew Frank was friends with the Johns, and they'd collaborated and toured together and all that. I liked some songs on Teenager right away, while others took some time to grow on me, but I eventually realized how great it was. A few months later, I picked up the self-titled album and Doolittle on the same day, and I liked them both fairly quickly. Trompe Le Monde took a little more time to grow on me, probably largely because it was somewhat "heavier" than most of what I listened to at the time, but now I like it better than Doolittle. "Motorway To Roswell" quickly became my favorite song on there, and probably the best Pixies song I'd heard so far. I picked up the other Frank and Pixies records when I could find them, with BLD and DW being the only two I bought on the release date. Since I wasn't really familiar with the Pixies until AFTER I'd heard some of Frank's solo work, I didn't have the "this isn't as good as the Pixies" reaction that a lot of people (especially music critics) seem to have. I will admit, though, that it usually took longer for a new Frank album to grow on me than it did for a Pixies album. I know I didn't think much of Pistolero at first, but it did grow on me. Dog in the Sand I loved on my first listen. Of the two most recent albums, I like DW better, and it didn't take as long for me to get into most of the songs.
Nathan |
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mereubu
= FB QuizMistress =
USA
2677 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2003 : 19:15:21
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quote:
Originally posted by makeyourheadgopop
Update:
I have been listening to Dog in the Sand for the past few weeks. I love it. Am I the only person who hears Bowie when listening to this? I mean listen to "If It Takes All Night" and some of the piano work on "Hunky Dory" back to back. There are a lot of other subtle similarities between Hunky Dory and Dog in the Sand. It's fantastic. That's my "Getting charged up to play shows" song, "If It Takes All Night". There's some really really great lyricism on the album too.
"If your heart is sad
Give your dog a bone
See her in the sand
This is your new home"
St. Francis Dam Distaster is beautiful... (hooray for banjos). Stupid Me. Bullet. Great, great.
albums left ot investigate: Pistolero, Frank Black debut.
The intro to Blast Off is so Bowie--especially "cause City Hall all are freaks and the coffee is gettin' weak." I love the little bits of Bowie nuance that pop up here and there. There are a couple of little snippets in the song Black Letter Days, and that chord progression in Fields of Marigold is pure Spiders from Mars. It's always fun to play "spot the homage" with Frank.
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surgicalblue
- FB Fan -
Canada
17 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2003 : 18:54:57
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I, too, thought that there was something odd about the production of DW. it did seem far too bass-heavy. i was listening to it with my drummer one day, and i was bitching that i couldn't hear the snare sometimes (that it sounded kind of weak for certain songs). he pointed out that perhaps Boutier recorded some of those songs with brushes rather than drumsticks. this would definitely offer less, solid mid-range frequency countering that fat bass sound. i'm assuming that, since it was all done live to 2 tracks, they probably didn't go and fuck around with the snare mic sensitivity or the compressor when Scott switched between drum sticks and brushes.
i know that this is long-winded, but i was really, really intrigued as to why DW sounded the way it did when Frank generally commands nothing less than stellar production. actually, now i'm so used to the album, i quite enjoy the sound - it's different than the others; a very unique recording. and what a privilege to finally see a new recording of my favorite song - 'modern age'. |
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Chroneos
- FB Fan -
USA
198 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2003 : 02:26:32
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quote:
Originally posted by misterwoe
Leonard Cohen is cool.
I know someone who has referred to FB's work as something to the extent of "Leonard Cohen on acid".
-Ben |
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chipahoyboy
- FB Fan -
112 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2003 : 22:33:38
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Teenager of the Year-- the best first 8 songs on any album anywhere! The whole cd is great, but the first 8 just flow perfectly!
Hey, makeyourhead, you must love Thalassocracy from the sound of your user name. That's my all-time favorite FB song. He was playing it live this fall, but I missed him. I hope he'll still be breaking it out on the upcoming spring shows! |
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makeyourheadgopop
- FB Fan -
18 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2003 : 17:50:25
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| I saw him twice in DC, but I was not yet fluent in his body of work... I DO love that song. It actually makes my head go pop pop pop pop pop... However, if he played it in DC, I can't honestly say, because I didn't know the song yet to recognize it. I will always be looking for it now. |
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