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interloper
= Cult of Ray =
440 Posts |
 Posted - 02/07/2004 : 05:07:24
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quote:
Originally posted by SpudBoy
I used to be really really into oddball time signatures. Throw a weird chord progression into 9/4 time, do a bridge in 5/4, and then 13/5 for the chorus and back and see what happens. I also have fun overlaying time signatures, creating polyrhythms. Example is 3/4 over 4/4, so the lines sync every 4th measure of the 3/4 staff.
All about the experimentation.
 I looked for a cult to join, then decided to just play "Sink". Hey! I sank WallaWalla Washington!
Isn't that just the best thing? I first learned that trick myself after listening to a lot of Bitches Brew era Miles. There's a track on the box set called "Great Expectations" in which just about all the instruments are hitting at different signatures. When put together, it's downright scary sounding. I think the trick here would be to not overdo that kind of thing, but yes, damn good call.
Hand held shower nozzles are the demon enemy of the patriarch and should be destroyed. |
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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2004 : 08:14:02
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Nono no. I dont mean i DONT play other peoples songs, but i didnt LEARN to play by playing other peoples songs. Obviously when your mucking about you come across songs here and there.
ANd, as i stated in my post, this is my personal opinion, and my personla way of playing and learning.
Im not saying im trying to 'find my own style', beacuase as you rightly said, there is no such thing. Its humanly impossible to come up with an original idea these days. Unless you invent a new instrumwnt - but theyve prob all been invented anyways...
Anyway, hope that cleared that up, and i dont sound like an elitist snob or anything any more! hahaa
Boys go to Jupiter,Become more stupider,
Girls go to Mars, Become rock stars |
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SpudBoy
= Cult of Ray =
Equatorial Guinea
649 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2004 : 12:27:10
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And hey while we're at it if you really want to stretch the bounds a bit check these guys out:
http://www.windworld.com/emi/
Dunno if they still sell it, but I have a great poster from them that gives all kinds of fun formulas for building new stuff (frequncy/pitch/wavelength, mcmikey might want the overtone reciepes for vibrating instruments, etc.). Grab an arc welder and go to town!
I looked for a cult to join, then decided to just play "Sink". Hey! I sank WallaWalla Washington! |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2004 : 12:36:40
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<plays a tune>
hmm, sounds a bit like 'yesterday' by the beatles
<puts a capo on the 2nd fret>
ah, sorted... new song. 
~~~
I'm flat out, you're so beautiful to look at when you cry. Freeze, don't move, you've been chosen as an extra in the movie adaptation of the sequal to your life. Shady Lane, everybody wants one, Shady Lane, everybody needs one. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2004 : 15:52:52
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Wow Tim - we're like long-lost brothers. *I* started writing 13yrs ago too!
Was your first song about burning buns by chance?
 Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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SpudBoy
= Cult of Ray =
Equatorial Guinea
649 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2004 : 17:29:08
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You're an odd one DN. Did you live over a bakery or a nudist colony? A nudist baking colony? A colony of baked nudists? Were you baked?
I looked for a cult to join, then decided to just play "Sink". Hey! I sank WallaWalla Washington! |
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John Dark
- FB Fan -
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2004 : 18:40:56
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2004 : 00:14:30
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No..just what came to my little 14yr old mind. =)
Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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Atheist4Catholics
= Cult of Ray =
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2004 : 07:26:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Noisy
Wow Tim - we're like long-lost brothers. *I* started writing 13yrs ago too!
Was your first song about burning buns by chance?
Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer!
No I was into the violent femmes and The Cure so I pretty much wrote about death and despair.
Were you despaired by the death of your buns?
 "Join the Cult of Frank / or The Clops gets it!" |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2004 : 12:38:40
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I was despaired by the burntness of my buns...
Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2004 : 15:10:02
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quote:
Originally posted by interloper
Mikey's suggestion of ditching any theory knowledge is great as well. A good way to blast this out is to detune your guitar (if that's what you're writing on) into some sort of odd tuning. It's great because you can no longer reach for that familiar G chord or E chord. You don't know where anything is so you can only rely on what sounds good. Keyboard does this for me, because I know nothing about it.
Hand held shower nozzles are the demon enemy of the patriarch and should be destroyed.
Not really knowing how to play guitar does this for me but yeah I hear that de-tuning is good. It's amazing how being a complete guitar novice with a good musical ear can help you come up with some great ideas for songs. I have come up with all sorts of stuff. I ask my friend who has been playing years and years what I am playing and he'll look at me for a few minutes and say something like "Oh you're playing a Abminor add 9" And I'll be like "Oh.........whatever" Then I'll play a chord that just shouldn't follow it or one that he can't describe and it will sound right somehow.
I love going against all musical theory. I think that's the only way we can push things forward now. I mean don't get me wrong I write songs with more standard chord progressions (sometimes I just play arpegios to make it sound a little different) but the stuff that really gets me excited is the stuff I write that I have no idea how to describe to people. I think that literally the best thing you can do is sit down with your guitar and just fuck about with it, don't play any recognised chords and see what comes out. You'd be surprised. Of course it depends on what you're after. If you wanna write another 'Let It Be' then forget it, stick to standard chord progressions. But if you wanna write stuff that's fresh and exciting, like Mars Volta or such like, then experiment with your guitar (or instrument of choice) and have fun.
Failing that, listen to jazz and classical music. Hendrix used to take a lot of ideas from jazz and bring them into his rock music. Jazz musicians are highly skilled, they really know their way around a fret board and as a result have come up with some great new ideas over the years. Personally I don't like jazz but I respect it's players as musicians. And as for classical music, well the great composers knew it all. There is nothing we could teach them. Check their shit out and learn MOFO's!!!  |
Edited by - Homers_pet_monkey on 02/08/2004 15:39:12 |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2004 : 15:14:03
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quote:
Originally posted by GypsyDeath
I used to watch people trying to write songs and they always ended up having the same problems you are expereincing. When i started playing guitar, i decided i was not going to learn other peoples songs - there for not being used to their styles. Thats whats it all about in the end - style.
I mean, learning lots of different styles is great and all, but it comesin to the wrting way too much. sometimes. IM speaking for myself here.
What i do is make up chords. Thre for, no ones riff can be the same. Just muck about and see what different sounds you can make. It just come i guess.
Trying hard to write - whether it be songs, poems, storys, lyrics or an essay never works. creativity doesnt work on demand.
Boys go to Jupiter,Become more stupider,
Girls go to Mars, Become rock stars
Now I just read this and she is right. I did not learn other people's music 'cos I thought there was a chance that I would pick up their habbits and begin to sound like them. I listen to music of course (fuckin' loads of it) but I try not to learn how to play what they are playing. Like I said before, it all depends on what you are after really. Classique or unigue? |
Edited by - Homers_pet_monkey on 02/08/2004 15:36:54 |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2004 : 15:15:56
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quote:
Originally posted by interloper
Another suggestion is to never overthink anything. Do something, put it down for a bit, and come back to it. Once your into a thing you've done, it's hard as hell to come back to it and be objective. Nothing will ruin your songs like spending too much time on them.
Hand held shower nozzles are the demon enemy of the patriarch and should be destroyed.
I agree with this also. |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2004 : 15:31:57
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quote:
Originally posted by SpudBoy
And hey while we're at it if you really want to stretch the bounds a bit check these guys out:
http://www.windworld.com/emi/
Dunno if they still sell it, but I have a great poster from them that gives all kinds of fun formulas for building new stuff (frequncy/pitch/wavelength, mcmikey might want the overtone reciepes for vibrating instruments, etc.). Grab an arc welder and go to town!
I looked for a cult to join, then decided to just play "Sink". Hey! I sank WallaWalla Washington!
Yeah I bought a comb & tissue paper, some spoons and some pots and pans on there!!!  |
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adriverdead
- FB Fan -
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2004 : 00:20:23
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| Use a bizzare tuning or randomly tune your strings to various pitches until something comes out playable, or not. |
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2004 : 00:29:04
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| Throwing in odd time signatures can really enhance a chord progression. For example, right after Frank says the line 'how come we say Los Angeleez' in "Los Angeles", he plays a two chord progression on the guitar in one of the weirdest time signatures I ever heard. It just wouldn't sound as cool if that progression was played in a normal-sounding 4/4 beat. |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2004 : 01:48:27
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I grew up aping guitar from Mills Brothers and Inkspots records and as a consequence find it much easier to write with diminished, augmented, 9ths and 6ths, which I always thought would come second. With respect to other time signatures, I began with Frank and Dylan and Willie Nelson and others, tweaking them to 3/4 and 5/4 and detuning for more satisfying fingerpicking. This I found most inspiring: kind of a spiralling effect I felt like I could play forever.
--
"You one of those right wing nut outfits?" inquired the diplomatic Metzger.
Fallopian twinkled. "They accuse us of being paranoids."
"They?" inquired Metzger, twinkling also.
"Us?" asked Oedipa.
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Scarla O
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2004 : 03:51:25
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I work in a fashion almost identical to Interloper and there's not much more that i can add other than not to get hung-up on on what chords you're playing in a given chord sequence. Sometimes it's good to start with a bass-line that you think sounds good (if you don't have a bass you can still replicate the effect with an electric guitar) and then to 'sew' the rhythmn guitar on top.
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2004 : 08:26:09
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quote:
Originally posted by SpudBoy
And hey while we're at it if you really want to stretch the bounds a bit check these guys out:
http://www.windworld.com/emi/
Dunno if they still sell it, but I have a great poster from them that gives all kinds of fun formulas for building new stuff (frequncy/pitch/wavelength, mcmikey might want the overtone reciepes for vibrating instruments, etc.). Grab an arc welder and go to town!
I looked for a cult to join, then decided to just play "Sink". Hey! I sank WallaWalla Washington!
]
You thought of me! that's cool
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a Spike Lee Joint |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2004 : 09:37:20
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i think most of my best stuff comes out of nowhere - i won't be trying to write or anything, i'll be futzing around on a keyboard or playing my guitar while watching tv - trying too hard kills my creativity
my only piece of advice is listen to everything you can get your hands on - it will help expand your possibilities in your mind of what you can play/do
that and try and not sound like creed
-brian
 - "I joined the Cult of Frank / And they tried to cut off my nuts and make me put in a blue jumpsuit"
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2004 : 09:43:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face
that and try and not sound like creed
-brian
- "I joined the Cult of Frank / And they tried to cut off my nuts and make me put in a blue jumpsuit"
This is the best possible advice anyone could EVER give a songwriter! Ever!
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a Spike Lee Joint |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2004 : 10:02:46
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| Hehehe, I love how much Creed get slated on this forum. |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2004 : 10:06:17
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No matter how much shit they get, it could never be enough
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a Spike Lee Joint |
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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2004 : 14:27:26
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quote:
Originally posted by mcmikey
No matter how much shit they get, it could never be enough
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a Spike Lee Joint
So true...so so so true
Boys go to Jupiter,Become more stupider,
Wanna fuck and fight in the basement?
Girls go to Mars, Become rock stars |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2004 : 14:31:49
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but at least they're no linkin park
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a Spike Lee Joint |
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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2004 : 14:49:29
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I guess,..
Boys go to Jupiter,Become more stupider,
Wanna fuck and fight in the basement?
Girls go to Mars, Become rock stars |
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Martina
- FB Fan -
Austria
10 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 06:04:02
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quote:
Originally posted by TheCroutonFuton
Okay..here's a problem that I always have. I have no trouble with coming up with decent lyrics at all. I've got shitloads of notebooks full of them. The thing that I can't do is write music that sounds unique and original for them. It all boils down to the Beatles and Nirvana.
I'll play a great sounding chord progression, note it down, and then the next day I'll be listening to the White Album and be like "Fuck! That's my fucking chord progression! Damn you beatles!"
I'll try finding a nice heavy riff for my rock stuff...and then I'll be like "Wait...that's the riff for (Insert Nirvana Song Here)...isn't it?! GOD DAMN YOU KURT COBAIN!"
For some reason it's always those two bands that I end up stealing from without even realizing it...so I just scrap the songs. I was playing a song I wrote to one of my friends a while ago and I guess it's almost exactly like Tired of Sex by Weezer. That really pissed me off because I had the whole thing done. Grr...
Do you have these problems too?
Talk about your songwriting experiences and stuff...
 "Join the Cult of Gunn / And Then You'll Be Destined to be a Rock and Roll Star of Epical Proportions!"
I share your experiences, Crouton. When "the bad touch" by the Bloodhound gang was released I was a bit irritated, because i had written a song called "Groovy Rudi" years ago that's almost the same - same chords, similar style, similar melody...When I played it to people everyone would say: "Uh-oh - you stole it from The Bloodhound Gang...." :) |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 07:22:02
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Ack. Having to choose between Creed and Linkin Park is like the difference between eating warm shit and eating cold shit.
--
"You one of those right wing nut outfits?" inquired the diplomatic Metzger.
Fallopian twinkled. "They accuse us of being paranoids."
"They?" inquired Metzger, twinkling also.
"Us?" asked Oedipa.
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 07:28:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Newo
Ack. Having to choose between Creed and Linkin Park is like the difference between eating warm shit and eating cold shit.
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"You one of those right wing nut outfits?" inquired the diplomatic Metzger.
Fallopian twinkled. "They accuse us of being paranoids."
"They?" inquired Metzger, twinkling also.
"Us?" asked Oedipa.
You're right. Eating ANY kind of shit is bad....now throwing shit, that's good!
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a Spike Lee Joint |
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Mad Dawg
- FB Fan -
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 08:57:36
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It depends if you are trying to impress your friends in the garage or if you're trying to sell songs, or get your bands stuff some airplay. It's OK to have your songs sound like other peoples songs. Especially if you're trying to sell them. Basically all hits sound like older hits. When the Japanese bought MCA records (LONG AGO) the first thing they did was drop all bands that didn't sound like someone else (familiar).
Sort of the same when Sony bought the Columbia group.
Or, you can be a hip, slick, cool, POOR artist like most people obsessed originality. |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 09:02:39
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can't you stay in your stupid jewelry thread instead of ruining this one?
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a Spike Lee Joint |
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Mad Dawg
- FB Fan -
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 09:20:31
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quote:
Originally posted by mcmikey
can't you stay in your stupid jewelry thread instead of ruining this one?
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a Spike Lee Joint
No. I thought I'd share some advice based on actually selling some songs/records/soundtracks as opposed to what I think might work but don't really know because I've never sold anything. |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 09:23:11
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and your advice was to sound like everyone else. very helpful. thank you
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a Spike Lee Joint |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 09:51:40
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i personally don't care about selling records - i write songs for my enjoyment and, hopefully, the enjoyment of others. however, i am not willing to sacrifice my integrity to make more people enjoy it than should. not that i think selling records is bad - its great! however, i'd rather sell 10 for people loving my unique approach than sell 10,000 because peoeple think i sound like creed.
-brian
- "I joined the Cult of Frank / And they tried to cut off my nuts and make me put in a blue jumpsuit"
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 11:08:35
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i am a hopeless song writer, it is really quite worrying. i can't write anything without thinking it sounds crap, too predictable or a blatant rip off.
then i think this is probably because i'm usually trying to write without some sort of vocal melody - but then i'm just as awful at trying to come up with that too - lyrics included.
then i think, well maybe, because i usually try to write with just my acoustic or electric guitar, that i need to be in a room with a drummer or bassist. i just spent three hours in a rehearsal studio with a fellow guitarist, drummer and pseudo-bassist and we got half a song down which i already feel like giving up on. awful. |
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