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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
 Posted - 01/30/2004 : 00:32:01
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I use this website to find out what is really going on in the world.
Caution: Use sparingly. This website may ruin your day. 
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
[EDIT - I thought I should put some sort of disclaimer in the topic title since I've suddenly lost my appetite... oops, there it is!]
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Edited by - Cult_Of_Frank on 01/30/2004 10:05:17 |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 07:48:06
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That stuff is hilarious.
"Bush planned Iraq Regime change before coming President"
Oh my! What breaking NEWS! This must be incredibly revealing for those dolts who missed both houses of the US congress making regime change in Iraq national policy...during Bill Clintons term!
Or maybe they missed Bush in the debates stating he would continue the current US policy of supporting regime change in Iraq.
It SURE looks nefarious...seriously, how uninformed does one have to be to buy that kind of tripe? |
Edited by - Dallas on 01/30/2004 08:35:34 |
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Thomas
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1615 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 08:19:52
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I thought Frank Black fans where able to think for themselves.
This website is more informative
Join the Cult of Little Black Francis / Our Love is Rice and Beans and Horses Lard |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 08:27:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Thomas
I thought Frank Black fans where able to think for themselves.
This website is more informative
Join the Cult of Little Black Francis / Our Love is Rice and Beans and Horses Lard
Thank you for this website Thomas! It came in very HANDY this morning. You get a little gold star on your forehead today. |
Edited by - The King Of Karaoke on 01/30/2004 09:22:46 |
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Scarla O
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 08:47:59
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Hey Thomas, some of us are using work computers - i'd rather not get the sack for clicking on that link.
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 09:20:58
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[quote]Originally posted by Dallas
That stuff is hilarious.
PPPLLLBBBEEEAAAHAHAHAHA!
Fucking hilarious!
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2604.htm
Dear Dallas,
I gather from your response, you are probably extremely well educated and well informed on politics. I am not, so I'm going to make this statement in defense of this website and then quit.
Someone turned me on to this website when all this stuff was first going down in Iraq and I found it helpful because it has links to news sites from other countries. When I looked around me at the time, all I saw were plastic flags and people discussing night vision goggles.
Shortly after September eleventh I actually saw a few rednecks with stuff painted on their trucks like "KICK OSAMA'S ASS". Like we were going to a fucking football game. Perhaps these are the dolts of which you speak although I'm fairly certain they don't watch the news unless it's "Fair and Balanced." I'm also fairly certain they had never heard of Bin Laden until September eleventh. I had heard he was planning a major terrorist attack a year prior. In fact it was supposed to be around the previous holidays but it was thwarted. After the holidays we went back to business as usual and let our guard down.
Once we went into Iraq, I would go home check all these news resources on this site from other countries and wonder to myself, "what the fuck is going on?".
I actually don't visit this site much anymore because it is too disturbing. Plus what can I do? Vote I know.
Maybe it is for dolts. If you have a better one please let me know I like to read from as many resources as possible before making my decisions.
I just thank God the war's over. Huh?
I suppose everyone is going to start pretending they knew that there were no "Weapons of Mass Destruction" before we went into Iraq, now that it's the latest topic on the news.
So now I'm confused. Why did we go in there again? Oh yeah the Iraqi's bombed the World Trade Center.
I was reluctant to start this thread becasue it is political. I don't feel this is the place really(or that I'm the man to start it). I was just looking to get a decent discussion going.
So, maybe this thread will be a good way to find better news sites. Feel free to include them in your responses.
With that said I'll stick with comedy |
Edited by - The King Of Karaoke on 01/30/2004 10:09:07 |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 09:31:14
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THANK YOU AMERICA! |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 10:25:39
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This is ridiculous.
So as a response I should post pics of the mass graves where about 500,000 dead iraqi's were buried? Or get you some of the video footage from Saddam's torture tapes? Can you tell me if that kid's parents or siblings were tortured and or killed by Saddam? Raped as a form of punishment for dissent? Placed into a plastic shredder?
You wanna go the atrocity route? Go ahead, but just remember that you are on the side that is in it to prolong the regime of the most prolific murderer since Hitler. Appeasement so that YOU and others like you wouldnt have your sensibilities injured by photos like the ones you posted here. Wasnt it all so much easier when Saddam did his murdering, raping and subjigating without all those damned camera's around??!?!
Sorry to inform you that reality sucks. Liberating millions of Muslims isn't easy and doesn't come without a price. American's, Brits, Poles, Italians, Japanese, Spanish and most of all Iraqi's have all shared. But, most think freedom is free. It isn't. It's costly as hell and sometimes you have to go through hell to get it. |
Edited by - Dallas on 01/30/2004 10:26:47 |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 10:28:14
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:( I feel horrible for all of the people in Iraq. Even the soldiers...I mean they were told that if they didn't fight that they'd be killed, their family would be killed, their friends would be killed, etc. Meh...we've been puting these poor people through hell several times over. It's horrible. Wars suck.
 "Join the Cult of Gunn / And Then You'll Be Destined to be a Rock and Roll Star of Epical Proportions!" |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 10:32:05
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Oh please, Dallas. Hitler was nothing compared to Stalin. Saddam + Adolph = Nothing close to Joseph. I think that TheKing was just responding to your tight-ass, "better than thou" remark. We are mere zealots compared to you, oh Dallas. Please show us the correct way to live our lives. Please, oh Dallas, please.
"Join the Cult of Gunn / And Then You'll Be Destined to be a Rock and Roll Star of Epical Proportions!" |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 11:04:35
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I would actually like to hear the opinions of some people outside of the USA.
Sorry Dallas. I just turned on FOX news, then read your response out loud at the same time. It's like I have the stereo going over here. Just on a really shitty station.
Please respond some more. I may be able to go back and delete that remark about you being well informed. I don't doubt you're well educated though.
See? Unlike you, I'm not attacking. Just discussing complex issues in a complex world. |
Edited by - The King Of Karaoke on 01/30/2004 22:20:14 |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 11:10:00
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ahhh, king. You always make me smile. I had no idea you had this in ya!
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peace, I'm out |
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ObfuscateByWill
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1887 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 11:11:03
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quote:
Originally posted by TheCroutonFuton
Oh please, Dallas. Hitler was nothing compared to Stalin. Saddam + Adolph = Nothing close to Joseph.
What? A joke, right?
What's the point of name-dropping dictators?
quote:
We are mere zealots compared to you, oh Dallas. Please show us the correct way to live our lives. Please, oh Dallas, please.
...and what to think, where to shop, what to eat, how to vote...
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Hey guys, where can I find a website that will tell me how to live my life the way I'd like to?
Actually reseaching anything is a drag.
*Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 11:12:29
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I was commenting on his "Go ahead, but just remember that you are on the side that is in it to prolong the regime of the most prolific murderer since Hitler." which just wasn't fact.
"Join the Cult of Gunn / And Then You'll Be Destined to be a Rock and Roll Star of Epical Proportions!" |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 11:17:34
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Come on Crouton! We don't need this! lets go back to talking about marine mammals and their huge sexual organs.
Even better. I'm going surfing. Maybe if I'm lucky I can get an up close look at their massive genitalia. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 11:28:28
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I still don't understand how going to Iraq and killing a bunch of people there is a form of 'liberation'.
There is way more 'terror' there now than when Saddam was in power.
Please don't use the 'so would you rather have Saddam still there' argument. That's not what we're discussing, and i'm tired of seeing it as a smokescreen. |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 11:29:31
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The Man Who Was Too Noisy  is correct.
"Join the Cult of Gunn / And Then You'll Be Destined to be a Rock and Roll Star of Epical Proportions!" |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 11:41:21
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and the Man Who was Too Futon-y is correct about the Man Who Was Too Noisy's correctness
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peace, I'm out |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 11:43:48
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The Man Who Was Too Futon-y is glad that The Man Who Was Too Mikey agrees with The Man Who Was Too Noisy
"Join the Cult of Gunn / And Then You'll Be Destined to be a Rock and Roll Star of Epical Proportions!" |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 11:55:32
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that made my head spin
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peace, I'm out |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 12:25:28
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Dave couldnt be wronger. Just ask the Iraqi's. But what could they know? You people know so much more from your comfy chairs. Then again Dave has a history of posting false information and dubious claims. You can look through the history of this forum, facts and reality do not get in the way of his agenda.
What is the nice way to call people on their ignorance? If you read that bullshit website you would think that GWBush had some nefarious secret plot that they were revealing. Sorry, but, you have to be ignorant of what really happened in the real world to even click that link. Anyone who has done even the LEAST bit of reading would know that both houses of Congress in the US made that US policy in the late 90's. Doesn't mean anyone is dumb, just ignorant of the facts. Sorry if that reality hurts your feelings. But facts are stubborn things.
One of you Einsteins refute my post about "regime change". Its a bogus story on a bogus website. Its embarrassing that people would consider that their news source when they know (at least they did now, not that I expect any thanks) that Bush was following the policy of US Congress from before his administration began. Seriously, how can someone defend such a bogus source?
Finally, if you didnt want to remove Saddam, you wanted him to stay. Stop the acrobatics its not fooling anyone. The French/German/Russian sponsors of Saddam's oppression machine were not going to give up their Oil Contract kick-backs under any condition. No war, no removal. History had proven that for about 12 years.
You guys think I am being elitist or some bullshit or telling people how to think. To the contrary, I am presenting facts in every post. Some people prefer their own carefully crafted reality vs. actual reality. The real world is full of tough choices, like risking the lives of your countrymen to liberate millions being oppressed across the globe.
Go cry over those photos, then contemplate the fact that the only reason they are available because a country the size of California with millions of subjugated citizens is now free.
How fucking elitist of people to spout off that all of those Iraqi's do not deserve liberty and freedom. That being oppressed by a madman was acceptable for THEM. THEY could have waited while the French and Germans diddled. Let them rot, let their women be raped. Absolutely no humanity whatsoever in that position. A complete lack of respect for human life. |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 12:30:15
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Bushie's main motivation, according to him, in invading Iraq was their weapons of mass destruction (you know, the ones we never found) and their ties with Al Qaeda (later proven to be completely false). It had nothing to do with the people Hussein killed, and Bush has never said it DID. He simply needed something to change public opinion after making NO progress whatsoever in Afghanistan, and Iraq was an easy target.
smooch
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peace, I'm out |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 12:31:11
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Okay mister "your own crafted reality"...None of us said that the Iraqi's don't deserve freedom. I never even said that Saddam should still be there. I'm glad he's captured. I think this whole thing could have been done a lot easier by just breaking a fucking law and assassinating him and then just deal with the consequences of the crime. The Iraqi's are still being killed and raped, if you haven't noticed. Why don't we just go and liberate every country that is corrupt and overpowering? Why don't we invade Cuba and bomb the fuck out of Castro?
"Join the Cult of Gunn / And Then You'll Be Destined to be a Rock and Roll Star of Epical Proportions!" |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 12:35:50
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Dallas and Erebus would make a super-cute couple, dontcha think
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peace, I'm out |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 12:40:34
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Again, not dealing with reality, just a bumper sticker approach without real analysis. If you did assasinate him you leave in place the oppression machine. His sons rise to power and the subjugation continues or gets worse. Even if you kill all 3, the infrastructure is still there. The Sunni's would have ruthlessly defended their minority rule over the majority using the full force of Saddam's army and police (Fedayeen - similar in function to Hitlers SS).
The Cuba argument boils down to "dont help anyone if you cant help EVERYONE". Castro is an oppressive dictator, but, not nearly on the scale of Saddam. Also, Cuba and North Korea can more effectively be approached with economic sanctions. They dont have a prescious resource like oil that they can bribe the French and Germans with. If they did, history teaches us that France and Germany would be lining up to enrich Castro and support him the same way they did Hussein. |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 12:51:49
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Mcmikey - you couldnt be more wrong. Go read Bush' state of the Union before the war, the humanitarian case was made there and countless other times. Seriously, how could you avoid such a basic fact? Put the playstation down, pick up a newspaper, that should get you started.
The only proof offered on a Iraq/AlQueda connection all points toward formalized relationships that included training on real commercial airliners in a camp called Salman-Pak. Czech intelligence says it has proof that Mohammed Atta met with Iraqi intelligence in Prague on more than one occasion. One of the worlds most wanted terrorists prior to 9/11 was a fella named Abu Nidal (sp) who was captured in Baghdad during the war. That my friend is call harboring a terrorist.
Your comments on Afghanistan (did you miss the constitutional convention? The schools for women? The extemely grateful Karzai?) and the Al Queda connection are painfully uninformed. Sorry to have to be the one who breaks it to you. |
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Steak n Sabre
* Dog in the Sand *
Uzbekistan
1013 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 12:59:31
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Why must my tax dollars go to bombing and rebuilding other countries???? Dallas, don't you want your your dough to go to improving things where you live??
 The Cult of Frank: Currently freezing our collective @#%*#%@'s off. |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 13:14:49
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A stable mideast would be a huge boon for the entire free world. With nuclear capabilities spreading to rogue nations and dictators the risk is exponential to what it was even 5-10 years ago.
Its a tough call SnS. It is worth it to me, but, I was in this from a humanitarian standpoint from the beginning. My posts in this forum over the last year and a half or so bear that fact out. The fact that it was in the mideast, made it even more worthwhile in my opinion. A muslim democracy in the middle east would have potential to completely change the dynamics there. Who could have predicted Khadaffi's conversion before the war? He has told European leaders that he did it because he saw what Bush did to Iraq. Now he is disarming and allowing in inspectors. That is a small victory in the global war against terrorism. One if its former largest sponsors is at least taking steps toward disarmament and allowing inspectors into his country.
If you told me that its not worth it from your point of view as a taxpayer and you would prioritize other items, I might debate you but I would understand fully your point. That is an intellectual analysis and decision. |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 13:21:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
Mcmikey - you couldnt be more wrong. Go read Bush' state of the Union before the war, the humanitarian case was made there and countless other times. Seriously, how could you avoid such a basic fact? Put the playstation down, pick up a newspaper, that should get you started.[/br]
oh come on! BUSH could hardly read Bush's state of the Union Address. He also said We would NOT be Peacekeepers of the World...but that went right out the window when he needed to save face, didnt it?
quote:
The only proof offered on a Iraq/AlQueda connection all points toward formalized relationships that included training on real commercial airliners in a camp called Salman-Pak. Czech intelligence says it has proof that Mohammed Atta met with Iraqi intelligence in Prague on more than one occasion. One of the worlds most wanted terrorists prior to 9/11 was a fella named Abu Nidal (sp) who was captured in Baghdad during the war. That my friend is call harboring a terrorist.[/br]
Even the Bush administration has come out and said their information showing a connection between Al Qaeda and Iraq was quite probably erroneous. And as far as harboring a terrorist, if a terrorist against France is captured in New Jersey, should the French assume we're "harboring" him?
quote:
Your comments on Afghanistan (did you miss the constitutional convention? The schools for women? The extemely grateful Karzai?) and the Al Queda connection are painfully uninformed. Sorry to have to be the one who breaks it to you.[/br]
Why don't we have Bin Laden in custody? your rich banker dad has distorted yoru concept of the world with the Republican propaganda he fed you growing up. Sorry to have to be the one who breaks it to you.
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peace, I'm out |
Edited by - mcmikey on 01/30/2004 13:23:00 |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 13:36:32
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mcmikey - more garbage. Nidal was smuggled into Iraq by Saddams intelligence service. He was provided housing and money. He was a guest of the state. So, I guess we dont need to talk about your lame analogy anymore do we? Seriously, cant you do better than that? Do you know who Nidal is? Do you realize that nobody traveled freely into and out of Iraq under Saddam? Just some inconvenient things for you to think about when you are pulling this stuff out of wherever it is you pull it from.
Get me the article, quote, anything from the Bush admin claiming there was no connection. Bush has said he doesnt think that there was a direct link to 9/11 from Iraq. He says there is proof that there was logistical and training support of Al Queda from Iraq.
But for fun think about your statement. Keep thinking, stay focused. Think about your thought processes. First Bush is a lying, SOB who would put American soldiers lives at risk to change the news coverage. He lied up and down about justification in your view. But wait, he told the truth about Al Queda even though it would bolster his case to go to war. This GWB is quite confounding! The fact is that the Admin is being carefull NOT to make a connection to 9/11 with Iraq because they can't prove it. Also because the war with Iraq is justified without 9/11 and should have taken place in 1998 when Iraq regime change became policy of the US gov't. |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 13:45:59
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think about THIS: there's an election coming up. He's just finished fighting a war that people are starting to realize was based on bullshit. He has two options: 1) stick by the bullshit and lose a good deal of his former supporters, or 2) play like he was misinformed instead of the misinformer and lose some supporters but at least keep some who will even sympathize with him. It's all about winning another election (although, technically he has yet to win one).
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peace, I'm out |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 13:48:34
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quote:
Originally posted by mcmikey
(although, technically he has yet to win one).
ahahahahahahahahahahaha, so true, so true.
"Join the Cult of Gunn / And Then You'll Be Destined to be a Rock and Roll Star of Epical Proportions!" |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 13:54:05
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| Tony Blair is also a total git...he has to stay in Bush's good books. They actually broke international law with the war in Iraq; the UN did not saction it, but they just go ahead? Bush feels he can do whatever he feels like, and actually he pretty much can....meanwhile, Iraq's troubles continue, although without Saddam Hussein. But Bush had his own interests at heart, not the people of Iraq's...he wanted to get rid of Saddam, so he used the whole 'axis of evil' thing to storm over there and indiscriminately bomb the country in his quest to oust the dictator. It was a heavy-handed way to deal with him, and Bush is only concerned with his own country and people. |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 13:57:23
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"Bush is only concerned with his own country and people"
You mean Texas, right Carl?
"Join the Cult of Gunn / And Then You'll Be Destined to be a Rock and Roll Star of Epical Proportions!" |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 13:57:26
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that was a decent one-liner there at the end.
Again Mcmikey, do all the math. Was Clinton, Gore, Blair, Chirac, Kofi Annann all in on Bush' deception? They all made the same claims Bush did, only earlier. The 1998 US Congress that installed regime change as the official policy towards Iraq? All doing GWB's bidding? Or were they all getting flawed intelligence? Chirac stated unequivocally that Iraq had WMD's. Same with the UN, you can read any of the 12 resolutions that they passed, but wouldnt enforce, for proof. Were they all trying to get GWB re-elected? Even before he was elected in the first place? Why was every leader in the free world helping out GWB?
The fact is that if Saddam didnt have WMD's he could have proven it easily. He either had them or wanted the world to think he had them. If the latter is true than he made a collosal mis-judgment that wrote and then signed his death warrant.
More thinking: If the Iraq War was about being re-elected it would have started last week, not last year. Having major combat operations completed makes it easier to transfer power. Being in the midst of major combat operations makes it damn near impossible.
Are you going to thank me for all this info. McMikey?? |
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"Join the Cult of Brit / And let your oral hygiene go out the window."