| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Leighroy
- FB Fan -
Australia
14 Posts |
 Posted - 11/15/2002 : 03:48:35
|
Hi all,
Im sorry but I cant bring myself to find a comparison between Nirvana and the Pixies. According to the Nirvana book "Come As You Are" when the band recorded Smells like teen spirit they were worried that it sounded too much like the pixies. I know Kurt was a pixies fan but I dont think Charles ever returned the compliment....
I find it hard to liken the Pixies to any other band out there....
Kurt Cobain and Black Francis are 2 of my 3 favourite performers, but I cant see a simmilarity, and Ive been listening to both of them for 10 years.....
any thoughts out there?
LEigh
|
|
|
gary13th
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
632 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2002 : 05:59:27
|
I've never really been keen on Nirvana, I cant see the "influence" of the pixies on any Nirvana stuff i've heard.
~you will get used to me, welcome to your new joy
Heloise by FB&TC |
 |
|
|
ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2002 : 10:40:59
|
Just because the pixies were a huge influence on nirvana, doesn't mean you'll hear major similarities. I'm a musician (bedroom style) and Frank Black is a huge influence on me, but i don't hear much Frank Black in my music. Maybe a hint of it. It's more like, his music is so freaking cool that it makes me go about writing songs with Frank's talent in mind. For instance, Frank influences me to use lots of chords instead of just 5 chords in every song. Another band might influence me to have alot of guitar harmony. So it may just be song structure, moods, and ideas that sound similar, rather than similar chord progressions, melody lines, or what-have-you.
Also, Kurt may have been much more paranoid and aware of sounding like the pixies because he wrote the songs and knew what pixies tunes he thought his songs sounded like. The similarities may have been more obvious to him and more hidden to the listener.
Derek |
|
|
|
Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2002 : 12:37:59
|
the popularization of the loud/soft dynamic.
i'm so cool that i don't even need to write full sentences.
-dan |
|
|
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2002 : 13:35:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by ProverbialCereal
Just because the pixies were a huge influence on nirvana, doesn't mean you'll hear major similarities. I'm a musician (bedroom style) and Frank Black is a huge influence on me, but i don't hear much Frank Black in my music. Maybe a hint of it. It's more like, his music is so freaking cool that it makes me go about writing songs with Frank's talent in mind. For instance, Frank influences me to use lots of chords instead of just 5 chords in every song. Another band might influence me to have alot of guitar harmony. So it may just be song structure, moods, and ideas that sound similar, rather than similar chord progressions, melody lines, or what-have-you.
Also, Kurt may have been much more paranoid and aware of sounding like the pixies because he wrote the songs and knew what pixies tunes he thought his songs sounded like. The similarities may have been more obvious to him and more hidden to the listener.
Derek
well put.
|
|
|
|
El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2002 : 16:43:52
|
There was an interview with Sonic Youth...I think it was when they were on 120 Minutes. The (dumb) interviewer said something along the lines of that a lot of bands list them as their influence...something or other...Thurston basicly went on to say that they think they inspire bands more than they influence them, because the bands that are influenced by them don't sound like em. And I think that's true for a lot of bands...Hearing a really good Beach Boys song or a really good Frank Black song might inspire me to pick up my guitar and come up with a riff or something.
EDIT: I also want to add that after skimming some of the Kurt Cobain "Journals," he has a number of lists of best albums, and Surfer Rosa is on just about every list, if not every. |
Edited by - El Barto on 11/15/2002 16:46:16 |
|
|
|
Atheist4Catholics
= Cult of Ray =
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2002 : 21:16:57
|
| I always thought "Teen Spirit" sounded a lot like "Tame" but with more melody (or melody at all!) Definitely the whole soft verse / loud chorus dynamic, but also the "bass line with little or no guitars during the verse" dynamic as well. |
|
|
|
BrendanT
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
907 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2002 : 05:55:49
|
I think that you just don't want to feel that you are ripping off your idol. It is too easy to assume that the music you make might sound like something that your idol might do. The sounds, the structure or the lyrics may seem to be obvious to your ears. It may seem like a compliment to others, but is only a cop out to you. Just admit it before being questioned on it.
Strummer-man
I had me a vision!
I bid a good-day to you sir! |
|
|
|
ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2002 : 10:29:42
|
I wish the filth-bands on the radio these days would admit they suck before we tell them they suck. Seriously, some of these bands HAVE to know they suck on toast. Are they just oblivious of their crapfulness because of the money and fame they receive? probably. How they get money/fame for selling albums recorded in septic tanks is the mystery.
Derek |
|
|
|
KingOfSiam
- FB LinkMaster -
USA
460 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 08:34:29
|
You say"Pixies Vs Nirvana" I think Frank Black would have no problem kicking Kurt Cobain's corpse around town!
Now if you are referring to the music, well then, why are you at FrankBlack.net? Why not start you own Nirvana site. Perhaps HeroinJunkyKurt.com. |
|
|
|
the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 21:42:22
|
That's just the kinda thing I'd expect at a idiot chat room. Your guy is dumber than my guy. My guy is cooler than your guy.
Childish.
Can't we like both?
"Winter blows through my coat"
the what four http://www.mp3.com/phelan |
|
|
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 23:33:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by the swimmer
That's just the kinda thing I'd expect at a idiot chat room. Your guy is dumber than my guy. My guy is cooler than your guy.
Childish.
Can't we like both?
"Winter blows through my coat"
the what four http://www.mp3.com/phelan
word. |
|
|
|
Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2002 : 23:43:03
|
i dunno about that 'frank inspires me to use more than just 5 chords in a song.' thing. sure he does use more than 5 a lot, but he also uses less.
a lot of pretentious people like to be complexity queens. if a song is simple, it's no good. that's bullshit. 'brackish boy' is extremely simple, so what? it's a great song.
i agree with the rest of what's said, though. definitely, my favourite artists inspire me to pick up my guitar, not to play a certain way. |
|
|
|
Leighroy
- FB Fan -
Australia
14 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 03:07:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by KingOfSiam
You say"Pixies Vs Nirvana" I think Frank Black would have no problem kicking Kurt Cobain's corpse around town!
Now if you are referring to the music, well then, why are you at FrankBlack.net? Why not start you own Nirvana site. Perhaps HeroinJunkyKurt.com.
Man, your hillarious. I was simply asking if any FB fans see any simmilarities betweent the two groups/artists as its sometimes written about in the music media, but i dont really see anything there (apart from the quiet/loud dynamic I guess).
Leigh
|
|
|
|
KingOfSiam
- FB LinkMaster -
USA
460 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2002 : 08:11:46
|
| Damn people!!!!! Chill. I like all music. I was simply poking fun at the "title" of the post - "Pixies Vs Nirvana" To me it sounds like a cage match in WWF or something. Hence the response - Frank kicking Cobain's corpse around.......Paaaahhhhlleeeeeaaase! |
|
|
|
johndietzel
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
464 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2002 : 03:18:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
i dunno about that 'frank inspires me to use more than just 5 chords in a song.' thing. sure he does use more than 5 a lot, but he also uses less.
a lot of pretentious people like to be complexity queens. if a song is simple, it's no good. that's bullshit. 'brackish boy' is extremely simple, so what? it's a great song.
Totally agreed. It's a mistake to sit there and try to force more chords into a song or something, to make it "better." To me that's just like learning to play as many fast notes on your fretboard with both hands as you can. I don't think there's a correlation between number or oddness of chord structure and goodness of sing. In fact, if anything, the best songwriters can write a hundred great, different-sounding, songs using the same three chords (like C-F-G or something).
In Frank's case, I think he is on another wavelength that has him diverging from the traditional folk-type song structure, but without meaning to. And it's just one of those things that causes us to drop our collective jaw. To me, he's just like one of those prodigious kids that you're always jealous of, and you can choose to resent him all your life, or just decide to appreciate the beauty. I think Kim Deal has even done that.
"Make no mistake; Ricky Lake's eatin' mad steaks off your bad breaks."
Carlton Ridenhour |
|
|
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2002 : 12:31:23
|
johndietzel, i love you man, but you HAVE to remove that picture from your profile.. i'm physically ill. :)
Floop |
|
|
|
johndietzel
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
464 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2002 : 15:49:18
|
Hey, the scar? Or the meat and taters? I have meat, taters, coke and wife.
"Make no mistake; Ricky Lake's eatin' mad steaks off your bad breaks."
Carlton Ridenhour |
|
|
|
Chip Away Boy
= Cult of Ray =
914 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2002 : 16:57:05
|
what do you mean you think kim deal has even done that
|
|
|
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2002 : 18:21:26
|
quote:
Originally posted by johndietzel
Hey, the scar? Or the meat and taters? I have meat, taters, coke and wife.
yeah, i was talking about the scar.. with the nice puss blob filling it up..
i guess you changed it already.. :) |
|
|
|
ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2002 : 07:10:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by johndietzel
Totally agreed. It's a mistake to sit there and try to force more chords into a song or something, to make it "better." To me that's just like learning to play as many fast notes on your fretboard with both hands as you can. I don't think there's a correlation between number or oddness of chord structure and goodness of sing. In fact, if anything, the best songwriters can write a hundred great, different-sounding, songs using the same three chords (like C-F-G or something).
Ok here, time to clear this up... i am the one who mentioned this "using more than 5 chords in one song" thing. It seems i've been "distorted". First of all, i said Frank inspired ME to think outside the box, and experiment with extra chords. I didn't say everyone needs to use a butt load of chords in every song. I meant, Frank inspires me to want to be more creative and not have just five chords in all my songs. Besides, I do write songs with simple chord progressions too, with chords like E, A, and B. But Frank lets me know, "hey, Derek, you know you don't HAVE to follow the standard chord formula." I absolutely do not try and force more chords into my songs, just because it would be cool or more complex. I write whatever happens to come out, and if a weird chord change fits, I use it. I only have a couple songs that use a lot of chords, and the progressions aren't akward either.
I'm not pissed at you dudes, of course, just wanted to clear that up.
Derek |
|
|
|
Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2002 : 14:59:51
|
everything's not about you. i think both of us were just speaking in general terms. i just used your original statement as a starting point. |
|
|
|
johndietzel
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
464 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2002 : 15:02:59
|
Got it. I stand by my statement, and apparently we agree, in general terms.
"Make no mistake; Ricky Lake's eatin' mad steaks off your bad breaks."
Carlton Ridenhour |
|
|
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2002 : 15:42:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
everything's not about you.
everything is about me. |
|
|
|
ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2002 : 20:20:30
|
Floop, there is no "I" in TEAM. But if you scramble the letters, you can spell "ME".
Derek |
|
|
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2002 : 10:34:42
|
quote:
Originally posted by ProverbialCereal
Floop, there is no "I" in TEAM. But if you scramble the letters, you can spell "ME".
Derek
that's great :) i'm going to have to steal that from you. |
|
|
|
VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2002 : 16:05:13
|
I was never a fan of Nirvana, so this is probably an uninformed opinion, but I get the idea that Nirvana's music tends to be kind of down and depressing in terms of mood. The Pixies, while certainly capable or doing weird, disturbing, or messed up songs, usually kept things upbeat. I think this is one reason why I like the Pixies a LOT better than most of the grunge groups that they influenced.
Nathan |
|
|
|
Visiting Sasquatch
= Cult of Ray =
USA
451 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2002 : 16:20:23
|
| Yea, "Rape Me" is a little disturbing, isn't it? |
|
|
|
aeclare1
- FB Fan -
17 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2002 : 19:45:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jose Jones
the popularization of the loud/soft dynamic.
i'm so cool that i don't even need to write full sentences.
-dan
That is some seriously funny shit! I don't know why, but that made me laugh out loud in the middle of the library. good stuff. |
|
|
|
Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2002 : 16:52:22
|
Ive got all of the Nirvana albums, and Pixies.... but I would say that Ive never really been into Nirvana that much, and Ive never really understood why they were, and are currently being called one of the most important bands ever.... They made good music and produced some fine songs but they were a little over rated in my opinion. No disrespect to Kurt Cobain, Dave Grohl and Chris whatshisface, but they weren't that good.
Pixies were much better..... Its just strange that Nirvana went on to become a worldwide sensation instead of Pixies, but I kind of like that. |
|
|
|
Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2002 : 22:50:16
|
| I think it's strange too, because when you listen to Nevermind and Trompe Le Monde, they sound pretty similiar production wise. They both have huge guitar sounds (Trompe's production is more atmospheric though). But if you take a listen to "Planet of Sound" and "U-Mass", the two most Nirvana-like songs on there, I think they hold up very well next to Nirvana's big hits. Of course where the Pixies pull ahead in the end, is in the diversity. Nirvana had 3 types of songs. Loud pop songs, quiet acoustic songs, and punky-noisy experimental songs. Pixies, nearly every song was a different style, sometimes even within the same song on Trompe they sound like two different bands (Sad Punk, Alec Eiffel). |
|
|
|
fallus
- FB Fan -
Belgium
94 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2002 : 06:01:35
|
well, Pixies are weirder than Nirvana. The masses don't like weird stuff, so it's normal Nirvana had more success. Plus, Nirvana's was very lucky to be the right band on the right moment. Their timing was right.
This is not a signature. |
|
|
|
parker_airspace
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
63 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2002 : 03:34:37
|
i try and never poke fun or put down any band no matter how much I like/dislike them, but it's always dangerous to try and compare bands.......as most of you in bands will appreciate it is really irritating..
however, in comparison, i feel honestly that nirvana's, the pixies', and frank black's music are uncomparable, as are essentially completely different style.....i must admit i like Nirvana, though I don't listen to it now very often, and I don't think I have ever compared the music......why need to?
I think frank did return the compliment though of "smells like teen spirit"......in an interview he was asked "what song do you wish you'd written and why?".........
......answer: "smells like teen spirit" because of MONEY !!!!!
and why not 
- was smashed head on by a giant truck :( - Chris |
|
|
|
GiJoewithKungFuGrip
- FB Fan -
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2002 : 12:42:56
|
Kurt was shell of a person in comparison to Frank Black. After all, Kurt couldn't confront his fears without drowning them in drugs or alcohol. Nirvana "woke" America up....yeah sure....those who were already sleeping, and resucitated radio rock.
Stomach ulcer or not.....Kurt Cobain was a COWARD! Masking his useage of herion as a "farmers' almanac cure-all" is pathetic. He, just a many others did, got what they wanted all along and couldn't deal with the reponsibility.
I believe the world lost a songwriter and confused man when Kurt made his exit. It's a damn shame he didn't have the balls to clean his act up.
Also....Bradley Nowell....what a waste!
"I'll have the cheese and eggs, scrambled,with plain toast,grits,bacon and hashbrowns scattered and covered." |
|
|
|
JPopeC
- FB Fan -
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2002 : 06:24:50
|
The music of The Pixies seems much more timeless than Nirvana...that may just be because of airplay fatigue in the early 90s. I put on In Utero a couple days ago and it had absolutely no effect on me. Next time I should try putting on a moldy plaid flannel shirt.
I chalk my response up to the fact that Curt/Nirvana really doesn't have much emotional or intellectual range...it is either quiet desperation or all out rage. The Pixies instrumental, vocal and lyrical range is far more expansive.
Much as I prefer the Pixies, there are a several Pixies songs that could have been Nirvana songs in some parallel universe. "13" and "Caribou" come immediately to mind.
JPopeC
"My mind is like an ocean..." |
|
|
|
paxwo13
- FB Fan -
2 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2003 : 13:01:03
|
Hi there!
I live in Southern California and the first time I heard "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was on Mars radio. The station was the brainchild of the Swedish Egil, a former KROQ (alt rock station in CA) DJ and ultimatly became a "Techno" radio station. Egil would occasionally play rock songs from artists that he felt were cutting edge. Anyways, I was into the Pixies, and I hadn't heard about them being broken up yet. Nirvana came on, with no introduction, and as I listened I thought "This is good, it sounds like a new Pixies song". The loud/soft pattern was there, the bassline sounded Deal-ish, the screaming (ala Tame/U-mass) was there, but the part that sold me on the idea was the "Yay" - where the vocals follow the guitar part - like in the verse of "Dead".
I guess Kurt had good reason to worry about sounding like the Pixies. I think only a fan would pick it up. But - even now, I hear tons of similarities.
Wait, It isn't so great, Since you learned karate chop
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Topic Locked
