| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Steak n Sabre
* Dog in the Sand *
Uzbekistan
1013 Posts |
 Posted - 01/07/2004 : 08:21:57
|
As for Marbury, please, somebody tell me how far any of his teams have gone in the playoffs. All those assists mean nothing if the team loses consistently. It's a question of attitude not talent....
 The Cult of Frank: More Than You Think, For Less Than You Thought. |
 |
|
|
Crispy Water
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
819 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 13:50:34
|
Sure his teams don't win championships, but there's still time. Lots of great players go their whole careers and win nothing. It doesn't necessarily mean they have the wrong attitude. Selfish pricks can win titles, it's a matter of what they're surrounded with - just look at Shaq. As far as Marbury's attitude, yeah he takes his teammates to task in the media sometimes, but that's just how basketball works. Yeah, he's a ballhog on occasion, but that's just how basketball works. I don't think he should be singled out for this behaviour just because he doesn't have a ring.
Nothing is ever something. |
|
|
|
Steak n Sabre
* Dog in the Sand *
Uzbekistan
1013 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2004 : 09:11:37
|
My point here is that true pros, regardless of how great they are, make their teammates better and do all the little things that help the team win. There are dozens of overrated guys, such as Marbury, that come up short in this. quote:
Originally posted by Crispy Water
Sure his teams don't win championships, but there's still time.
Lets see if the Knicks ever get by the first round before dusting off the trophy shelf.
quote:
Lots of great players go their whole careers and win nothing. It doesn't necessarily mean they have the wrong attitude.
It means they were not interested or unable to make their teams better.
quote:
Selfish pricks can win titles, it's a matter of what they're surrounded with - just look at Shaq.
If Shaq was 6'8" 240, he would not even be in the league.
quote:
..., but that's just how basketball works.
This is your summation? Rarely have I seen a statement so utterly devoid of fact and condescending as this. This is the remark that invoked my rant here.
quote:
I don't think he should be singled out for this behaviour just because he doesn't have a ring.
True. As I mentioned, there are plenty of guys that care more about their stat line, the new line of gear they are peddling,or what magazine cover they are on, than they care about being a complete player. It just so happens Marbury is in the news because of the trade, so he became the poster boy for my statement.
I hope this at least this makes my position clear.
The Cult of Frank: More Than You Think, For Less Than You Thought. |
Edited by - Steak n Sabre on 01/08/2004 10:03:44 |
|
|
|
Crispy Water
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
819 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2004 : 16:41:24
|
After reading that, I believe our opinions are closer than either one of us wants to admit. When I said "that's how basketball works," I admit I was being somewhat condescending. It's a great game, but its culture is too happy to promote individuals above their teams, which quite irritates me. I went over this the other day (on the last page), and I was just a little choked that you seemed to be picking on Marbury. I don't like him much myself, but it still wasn't fair. Now I realize you were just using him as the most immediate example.
In a way, I think that the press NBA stars receive is part of the reason for the league's success: if they didn't hype the exceptionally talented young stars on weak teams, the casual fan wouldn't watch these games. If helps ratings and therefore TV contracts for the league. Being also a keen hockey fan, I believe it's definitely something the NHL could learn a bit (just a bit) from in the hopes of boosting revenues.
So anyway, yes, your point has finally hammered its way through my skull. For the record, though, you made a completely irrelevant response to my comment about Shaq.
Nothing is ever something. |
|
|
|
Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2004 : 17:08:43
|
If it makes anyone feel better, the Knicks are getting their ass kicked right now...
______________
edit
The Kincks home debut with their new team against the Rockets was a completely wretched ex[erience to watch, except that I had to, because it was the only game on cable. Portland is playing Minnesoter now... (foreshadow edit)
Join the Cult of Edit, it just means you feel really good right now. |
Edited by - Little Black Francis on 01/08/2004 18:31:54 |
|
|
|
Steak n Sabre
* Dog in the Sand *
Uzbekistan
1013 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2004 : 09:15:58
|
Thats cool Crispy, I think we agree the game should be played the "right" way. Its too bad the media hype machine revels in promoting the indivdual in a team sport. I'm not sure how Shaq figured into the original discussion, but I'll still say he does not posess certain skills such as shooting, and relies solely on being the biggest guy out there. Plus he gets hurt too much.
Keep an eye on the Bucks, soon to overhaul Toronto in the standings...
The Cult of Frank: More Than You Think, For Less Than You Thought. |
|
|
|
Crispy Water
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
819 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2004 : 10:09:05
|
What I was saying about Shaq is that he proves a selfish player can still win titles, that's about it. Very right about the Bucks, even after they gave up a lot for one failed playoff run, they're a strong team. Redd plays like a guy who could contend for the scoring title in a couple years. The team that's impressed me the most this year is the Sonics; who would've thought they could have held up that kind of record without Allen in the lineup?
Nothing is ever something. |
|
|
|
darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2004 : 11:11:44
|
| How about the Kings with the best record (may be they've lost that distinction when they lost to the Sonics) without Webber so far this year? |
|
|
|
speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2004 : 11:24:28
|
| I think C Webb is one of the most over-rated players in the league, and I find his game to be a complete bore to watch, much like Shaq and Tim Duncan. Give me a meaningless game between the Clips and the Cavs over a bunch of 7 footers pulling off really slow post moves. As for the Kings, they're a very deep team, and that's why they do just fine without Webber. Bobby Jackson is an amazing 1 off the bench, and Hedo can certainly play. |
|
|
|
Steak n Sabre
* Dog in the Sand *
Uzbekistan
1013 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2004 : 11:39:02
|
Yeah, Utah also is surprising so far. Too bad the Bucks had to give up Ronald Murray in that Allen deal, he carried them for a while there, but he's been out of form lately. You would not believe what it like now that George Karl is gone. This town was ready to make him Mayor 3 years ago, and then he turned into a complete jerk.
The Cult of Frank: More Than You Think, For Less Than You Thought. |
|
|
|
Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2004 : 11:41:49
|
Hedo is a Spur now. I also disagree about Webber. He is great to watch. If he isnt the best passing big man in the game right now Vlade is. Webbers game is much more varied than Shaq or Duncan. But I dont get bored watching those guys anyway. I get bored watching East teams walk the ball up the court and stand around for 15 seconds before they miss their first shot. I dont know CWebb if he is over-rated or not. He may be in some places, but, I wouldnt call his game boring or consisting of really slow post moves.
I do love Bobby Jackson. Another in a long line of smart Sacramento talent acquisitions. All anyone else saw was that he wasnt a 'pure' PG.
On Shaq I would agree he is selfish. But, he is ALWAYS the highest percentage opportunity on the court. He is the the unanswerable question. The Alpha-male of the NBA. Simply the greatest physical specimen to ever play the sport. Too bad he acts like a jerk a lot of times. Good thing for the rest of the league his work ethic is questionable, otherwise he would have 10 rings by now. |
|
|
|
speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2004 : 11:54:10
|
I forgot about Hedo going to the Spurs.... who can keep up with all the players changings teams this year? Especially when you live in Canada and basketball coverage involves Raptors highlights and a story about how good Steve Nash is, in case we forgot he was Canadian. Oh, and if Jamal Magloire has a dunk, we find out about it.
I do think CWebb's game is boring, it's mostly jumpers and pivot moeves followed by a weak foul and some "spectacular" finish. I guess I just prefer more athletic type players like Kobe, TMac, Vince, JRich, Baron Davis, etc, etc. I just don't find Shaq and TD and Webber to very entertaining, though I won't dispute how dominant they are how, and how much they are the MVP of their teams(particularily Shaq and Duncan).
All in all, this is one of the most wide open seasons in recent memory, and there seems to be no shortage of talent in the league, which is good news as they're expanding again next year (go Bobcats!). I think there will be several good teams who don't make the playoffs (especially in the west), and it's really anybody's contest. At least until the Lakers play the Spurs in the west final, and the Nets face the Pacers in the east. |
|
|
|
Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2004 : 12:07:18
|
| Nash is pretty huge here in Dallas. Is he as revered in Canada as we hear he is? |
|
|
|
speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2004 : 12:10:52
|
| Those that know of him certainly appreciate him. Approach the average Canadian and I doubt they'll have heard of him. Excpet maybe in the Victoria/Vancouver area (He's from Victoria). |
|
|
|
Crispy Water
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
819 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2004 : 17:11:02
|
Yeah, thinking about it, Utah and Denver have both been revelations this season. I guess I'm just a biased Sonics fan. I find that anybody who follows sports in Canada knows who Steve Nash is, and anyone that's into basketball (seemingly every blood relative I have) thinks he's just the king. Canadians seem to think those who take pride in representing their country can do no wrong. Those that don't (Fox, Maagloire) just kind of get ignored until they do something incredible.
I think Webber is an excellent player, perhaps overrated, but he's still very good. The Kings as a team are the most exciting team for me because while they (like Dallas) rely on shooting threes too much from time to time, they have the most multifaceted attack in the league.
If Kirilenko doesn't make the all-star team, there's no justice in this world.
Nothing is ever something. |
|
|
|
darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2004 : 10:46:39
|
The Sacramento Bee had a story this morning about how the Kings have become Peja Stoyanovich's (that can't be even close to being spelled right) team during Webber's absence and some speculation about how Webber will fit in when he returns. Brad Miller has been another smart acquistion by the Kings.
Going back a little. I don't like Shaq. I don't like anything associated with the Lakers. But, to say his only talent is his size is unfair. The big beast moves pretty well and has pretty good hands for a man his size. There are bigger guys than Shaq (look at the NFL) but don't have the "grace" that Shaq has. I also agree his boring to watch (another shoulder into the defender and a layup), but I think Duncan is fun to watch. And, how is Kobe any less selfish than Marbury? |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Topic Locked
