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cvanepps
= Cult of Ray =
USA
442 Posts |
 Posted - 01/04/2004 : 09:06:21
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Of the CDs I own, I've noticed a definite pattern to track arrangement. Strong, fast tune followed by equally strong yet slower tune, etc. I'm reminded of the closing scene from High Fidelity when John Cusack is talking about the rules of making a good mix. Opinions, anyone?
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man =-
http://christophervanepps.iuma.com |
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Kirk
= Cult of Ray =
USA
633 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2004 : 09:49:47
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I'm thinking the same.
Except for some groups and styles, like the punk band ALL. I don't recall any track 3 slower tunes. They're all fast :)
              ...though he loved to rock and roll...
http://www.bagleytree.com/index_000002.htm...I, myself, am trying...
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2004 : 10:28:05
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I loved his rules for making a mix CD and tend to follow them myself. It is different when making a CD of covers, there are other factors like straight up vs. original not to mention the wide variety of genres that are always included.
It's important to start strong and upbeat I think... the first track really sets the tone for the rest.
The most critical thing, though, is that the end of the previous song jives with the beginning of the next song.
For the first tribute, I bookended the tracklist with a straight-up & fun/epic and different pairing. Not that our track was necessarily epic, but we were going for that sort of big atmospheric sound. For the second, a more traditional opening, closing. Clootie's track is the closer here but Levitate Me is the weird little "Oh, we're still recording... here's what we taped when no one was looking" final bonus. I think it works very well that way.
I try to balance the strong tracks on both sides of the disc, I never liked front-heavy discs. That said, when I make my own mixes as opposed to the tributes, I notice that the strongest tracks are usually 1,2,3,7,12, and the closer, which sort of implies front-heavy, but I mix a lot of the great tracks in the second half too so it sort of balances.
Cool topic, I'm going to have to give this more thought.
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2004 : 10:28:05
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I loved his rules for making a mix CD and tend to follow them myself. It is different when making a CD of covers, there are other factors like straight up vs. original not to mention the wide variety of genres that are always included.
It's important to start strong and upbeat I think... the first track really sets the tone for the rest.
The most critical thing, though, is that the end of the previous song jives with the beginning of the next song.
For the first tribute, I bookended the tracklist with a straight-up & fun/epic and different pairing. Not that our track was necessarily epic, but we were going for that sort of big atmospheric sound. For the second, a more traditional opening, closing. Clootie's track is the closer here but Levitate Me is the weird little "Oh, we're still recording... here's what we taped when no one was looking" final bonus. I think it works very well that way.
I try to balance the strong tracks on both sides of the disc, I never liked front-heavy discs. That said, when I make my own mixes as opposed to the tributes, I notice that the strongest tracks are usually 1,2,3,7,12, and the closer, which sort of implies front-heavy, but I mix a lot of the great tracks in the second half too so it sort of balances.
Cool topic, I'm going to have to give this more thought.
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2004 : 11:51:01
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I always wondered if I were the only one freakish enough to give a second thought to what order the songs go in on my mix tapes or CD's. Glad to know I'm not.
I tend to group genres together, if Frank Black is to be included in a mixed CD, more often than not the other musicians on the mix share similar styles. Or I might do a mix of old music, Led Zepplin, the Doors, etc.
Or, if I have a particular time in mind when I think I'll want to listen to the mix, I'll base it on that, like good driving music, music to listen to when I am drawing or doing something creative, etc. Then the mixes tend to become a little bit more disparate.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2004 : 12:58:30
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| i'm kind of obsessive about it. one thing i don't like about making mix CD's, as opposed to tapes, is that you can't really control how much time is elapsed between individual songs (i guess you could with a more sophisticated program). you've either got to choose 1 second, 2 seconds etc.. and that's the space between every song. when, really, some groupings of songs would benefit from having less space between songs, to keep the momentum going (like the first three tracks on TOTY), and others should have a little more space, for reflection and dramatic effect. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2004 : 13:51:20
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I just made a mix CD for a friend of mine over the holidays, meant to be a sort of intro to indie. I was sort of anticipating that she wouldn't really know any of it but she claims to have heard about half the stuff so she's a little more plugged in than I originally gave her credit for...
Most of you will know all of these songs, I imagine.
1) Radiohead - 2 + 2 = 5
2) BSS - Cause = Time
3) GBV - Chasing Heather Crazy
4) FB - Headache
5) Spoon - Everything Hits At Once
6) Chavez - Unreal Is Here
7) Ween - Falling Out
8) The New Pornos - The Laws Have Changed
9) GBV - Glad Girls
10) BSS - Pacific Theme
11) FB - Bullet
12) FB - So. Bay
13) Interpol - NYC
14) The New Pornos - It's Only Divine Right
15) Spoon - Don't Let It Get You Down
16) Ween - Even If You Don't
17) FB - End of Miles
18) Interpol - Roland
19) Metric - IOU
20) The Dears - Lost In The Plot
21) FB - Speedy Marie
I tried to limit it to 2 tracks/band, but I hate including FB because it's impossible to choose two tracks to fit him. I suppose I went for accessibility this time around (most of you GBV fans will probably cringe at my choices) since it was supposed to be introductory. I also try to space out tracks from the same artist (with the exception of the two FB tracks that are side by side). Which makes it a lot harder to make cohesive, but I think I pulled it off. For some reason I thought I had a Calexico song on here, but now that I think about it, I decided one instrumental was enough.
Floop, I owe 'ya a CD and I still have to listen to yours (but I will starting tomorrow), so if you want a copy of this, let me know... I figure you probably know most/all of these songs though, so I could replace the ones you know if you'd like.
I actually am very meticulous about track spacing. I use crossfades as well as additional spacing when needed. I use Nero and what I'll do is play the previous song with a countdown timer in Winamp and then press play when I think the next one should start and take that time. I have a disease... :)
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2004 : 13:53:26
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does anyone have these rules from high fidelity? i liked them too, but can't quite remember them off the top of my head, and i'm too lazy to search through my copy of the book... :) is it mentioned online anywhere?
~~~
I'm flat out, you're so beautiful to look at when you cry. Freeze, don't move, you've been chosen as an extra in the movie adaptation of the sequal to your life. Shady Lane, everybody wants one, Shady Lane, everybody needs one. |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2004 : 16:59:25
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
i'm kind of obsessive about it. one thing i don't like about making mix CD's, as opposed to tapes, is that you can't really control how much time is elapsed between individual songs (i guess you could with a more sophisticated program). you've either got to choose 1 second, 2 seconds etc.. and that's the space between every song. when, really, some groupings of songs would benefit from having less space between songs, to keep the momentum going (like the first three tracks on TOTY), and others should have a little more space, for reflection and dramatic effect.
I know what you mean about the momentum of certain songs. One that sticks out in my mind is on "Trompe Le Monde." The end of Palace of the Brine fits perfectly with the beginning of Letters To Memphis. I usually just use Roxio, but it's the demo version and transitions aren't an option. I would like to be able to control the space between songs, but I don't want to pay 20 or 30 dollars to do it. Some songs benifit from a long pause before the intro. Others, like you said, are better when heard pretty much back to back.
Some bands can pull of seguing their entire albums without any breaks at all. Nine Inch Nails does this quite alot. So does Failure on "Fantastic Planet" There's not too many that can do this effectively though.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2004 : 18:09:33
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How about The Band, opened up an album with A BALLAD? The end of Los Angeles could quite easily end an album. Yes, I thinks track arrangement is important. Can you imagine the first track on OK Computer being "Karma Police"? ...It wouldn't feel right. I kind of like when the second to last tune is a very complex and long intricate song...it's like a big finish, and then the final tune is something soft and simple. The second track is also crucial, and often the single for an album. Pink Floyd's "Learning to Fly"; Frank Black's "Men In Black"; Ash' "Goldfinger"........I don't really have an opinion, I guess. But it certainly is interesting to think about where the tracks go on an album, and where else they could go. Johnny Cash's "Hurt" could fit quite nicely on the end of an album. Ramones' "Today Your Love, Tommorow The World" couldn't fit better anywhere else. Very interesting.
By the way, I know the Marsist was also a single, but MIB is a bigger single (ie Matt Yeltons backing voclas...the video) |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2004 : 22:55:33
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"Hurt" was the ending song on the album of which it originated, "the Downward Spiral." It was a great song, except that Trent Reznor kind of ruined all the beauty and melodic nature of the song by throwing a horribly sour note in at the very last of the song. You ever hear it, Ice Cream?
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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ObfuscateByWill
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1887 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2004 : 11:37:47
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I don't normally use a mix-tape formula.
I'm pretty good at transistioning from one genre to the next, though.
An 80-minute CD-R normally takes about 2 days to complete.
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As a teenager I would buy those 120-minute cassettes. Two hours of music on a cassette. It was a fantastic way to introduce people to what I was into.
No one seems to have a working tape deck anymore, though.
I don't, anyway.
*Shka-pow! |
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