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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
 Posted - 12/13/2003 : 09:10:45
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the new princess topic reminded me of how many complexes and misunderstandings still exist between the two major parts of the western world.stereotypes are hard to die and seems that still exist europeans that consider themselves as the holders of culture and history and americans as ignorant violent cowboys and vice versa americans that consider the us the only free place in the world and europe as a museum where people care only about bragging about the past and offeding the US.in my opinion such behaviour is the result of a deep complex:europe would love to have the political power and the cultural freshness of the US (though they will never admit it) and americans have an inferiority complex versus europe due to europe's classical culture,history and traditions which were lost in the melting pot of the new world.i never liked slogans and stereotypes and this topic is about what's good and what's bad about Europe and America.Fanatics are not welcome.
America
Pros:
#Culture:though snobbed by the rusty european and trendy american intelectualoids the modern american culture is the future(see for example this site).music,cinema and pop culture are the us contribution to the world.it's been a while europe hasn't done anything new worth of mentioning.
#Technology:could we live without it?though americans weren't the first to invent a lot of things they have the merit of producing new technologies in mass making it accessible to the majority of the people.and regardless the reasons they did it they went to the moon too.
Cons:
#Politics:many empires have come and gone in the past and the U.S could be one of them.the difference is that in the past people could not make a difference,today they can.americans are still politically naive and the majority remains pretty badly informed about the rest of the world.nazionalism is still a driving force and the arrogance that derives from it makes the rest of the world angry and suspicious against americans.
#Death Penalty:need i say more?
Europe:
Pros:
#Union:slowly and painfully we are going versus the complete elimination of armed conflict.it's one hell of an achievement for the continent that produced 2 world wars and miriads of minor or major conflicts for centuries.the art of politics was invented and perfectioned here and sooner or later we should be able to resolve our prolems around a table and not by invading each other.
#Morality & Ethics:the US seem to adopt every new technology without thinking twice:G.M.O's,Nuclear Energy,Biotechnology etc.europe is more carefull with innovation.though it may slow progress it guarantees safety.
Cons:
#Adoration of the past:unfortunately we are still stuck in our story.a little provoking is enough to make british start about heir empire,french about napoleon spanish about their colonies etc all claiming historical and cultural superiority(and greeks will laugh at all of them because they invented everything,hahaha).part of this is the church's fault that is still powerfull enough to block innovation.
#Hypocricy:centuries of politics have made of europeans perfect hypocrites.they are ready to condemn everyone in the name of morality but they almost always have something to gain.see chirac's anti-war campaign and how it ended.americans are not able to lie(yet).bush tried to find excuses for the war in iraq but nobody believed him chirac instead gained a lot of consense with the popular antiwar movements only to return in iraq at war ended and have a piece of the pie like everybody else.
of course this is how i see things and i'm sure that they are more pros and cons that i havent thought of.
discuss.
 join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2003 : 13:16:31
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Do you mean 'North America', 'South America' or the 'United States of America'?
You lumping Canada and Mexico into all this? =) |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2003 : 19:19:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Noisy
Do you mean 'North America', 'South America' or the 'United States of America'?
You lumping Canada and Mexico into all this? =)
i mean the u.s of a. mostly but thinking about it north america in general would fit too(canada too that is).central and south america are of a completely different mentality and historical\economical background more third world than western.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org |
Edited by - mun chien andalusia on 12/14/2003 17:51:04 |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2003 : 20:36:35
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Good points, mun chien andalusia.
I had been meaning to start a topic about something I had heard recently. It's a well-known fact that Europe in the past existed in a state of almost constant warfare. Even before the inception of the "nations" of France, Great Britain, Spain, the Holy Roman Empire, Austria-Hungary, Russia, and Italy, there were countless wars. Even up until the 20th Century there was a general feeling of distrust between the European countries. (With Germany and Russia they had good reason.) But in more recent years, after World War II ended, the European countries (with the HUGE exception of Russia) have mostly gotten along, and there is alot more unity between the western European states than there was before. And, with this peaceful unity there have been many crossovers of culture, politics, etc. Even now you sometimes hear of the "European Union." My history teacher seems to think that with the introduction of the Euro and the international meetings that are held representing all of the western European nations that they are on their way to becoming a country in and of themselves. (A sort of United States of Europe, if you will...) I myself don't really know what to make of it; it seems to me that nationalism and individual identity still play too important of roles for this to happen in the near future, maybe never in my lifetime. Here in the U.S. I don't think of myself as a "Tennessean." I think of myself as an American who lives in Tennessee. But there is so much diversity between historical events that have taken place in the spans of individual states here, take for instance the history of Texas vs. the history of New York or somewhere. In my view, Europeans would not have this same outlook, like they are "Europeans" who just happen to live in France or Italy or anywhere else for that matter. I could be wrong; what do some of you Europeans think? It seems like in the recent past the countries of Europe (especially the western countries of France and Great Britain) have displayed the tendencies of acting as one great nation rather than a hodgepodge of individual allegiances.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2003 : 18:12:13
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i see your point.many non europeans (and some europeans too) think that the sense of the E.U is to create a new super nation with a central goverment a common economy etc.that is not what E.U is about.no european will accept to see his country riduced in a mere state of a large union.more likely we will have equal partners that share and decide all together for common politics maintaining the individual cultural and historical differences.this misunderstanding is holding back the progress in the european constitution talks.many fear that the large and more wealthy countries like germany and the uk will take control and they will lead europe without considering the smaller states that would see their powers reduced.the actual conflict lies here:how democracy should function between country members?today all members are equal and have the right to veto any decision so the greek vote is as important as the german one.with the new members coming in such a procedure will no more be practical because with 25 members all with veto power the decisional process would freeze.so they are trying to find a formula that respects the population (a 60 million country must be more rappresented than a 200.000 one) and the countries as members (you can't create a and b series members).most probably they will settle for something in the middle.
hopefully in some years we will see russians enter too,and we will create a common defence strategy (that will save a lot of resources in the continentsince 25 individual armies cost more than one and well organized) and a common foreign policy.but until then i'm pretty happy that i can go around europe,study work and travel without needing a passport and with the same rights as everyone.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2003 : 21:25:25
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Good post mca
Minor, minor point I think Europe has actually adopted nuclear power more than the US has. I think don't a new nuclear power palnt has been started in the US for a long time. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2003 : 23:20:23
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I like how the EU is shaping up...could Canada join up? =)
I don't really know enough about the histories of countries, etc, to comment on MCA's original posting.. |
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Danishboy
- FB Fan -
Denmark
175 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2003 : 00:00:48
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The eu or ef started as a forum for free marked, and has grown into something bigger.
I myself has voted "yes" each of the four times, but it went to the no-side two times.
I hope that the Eu will stop the talk of the united europa, and go back to a partnership of trading.
We dont have much in common, besides history.
Man of steel |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2003 : 00:19:17
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin
Good post mca
Minor, minor point I think Europe has actually adopted nuclear power more than the US has. I think don't a new nuclear power palnt has been started in the US for a long time.
i 'm not sure about that point but i suspect that the us covers a higher percentage of power demand with nuclear reactors than europe (as an overall,may be higher for single countries)does,though i could be wrong.i'm almost sure that no european country is constructing new nuclear power plants.those who already have them just maintain them or actually dismantle the older ones without replacing them.it may be different for the east europe countries.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2003 : 00:45:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Danishboy
The eu or ef started as a forum for free marked, and has grown into something bigger.
I myself has voted "yes" each of the four times, but it went to the no-side two times.
I hope that the Eu will stop the talk of the united europa, and go back to a partnership of trading.
We dont have much in common, besides history.
Man of steel
if you consider the united europe as a new soviet union everyone is against it.reducing the new form of seeing the world politics in a mere trade union would be a major mistake.european countries have a lot of things in common(more than you immagine)mainly because after 3000 years of co-existence in a limited space it's normal that ideas are recycled producing as a result a common way of thinking(nobody considers the death penalty for example and most countries take social care for granted and by no means expendable ).the basic difference with the US is that european countries are at the end of their political evolution all united by the fact that they have chosen democracy as their political system and diplomacy to resolve their problems without giving away their history\tradition.we should be over with the colonial aspirations prefering to equally trade than looting the world.considering this a united europe would not be a new super state but a collective of independent countries finalized to guarantee better resource administration and welfare for all.thus a union for the people and no longer for the glory of a flag.
yet not all countries are convinced or ready to accept the philosophy of this move.infact denmark,the u.k and sweden are still out of the euro zone for reasons that go from national pride to fear of innovation.the EU works fine without them too by using a simple trick:members who choose to partecipate to the european institutions are more advantaged than those who remain in dispart.example:you have to change your money in euros when you travel in the eu,loosing money,i don't.simple everyday commodities are on the long run important.in my opinion it's inevitable that all countries will discover the advantages of a common administration and they will join in.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.superabound.altervista.org |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2003 : 01:30:50
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| Sorry to get us way off track, but doesn't France get a large percent of it's energy from nuclear reactors. It's not very common in the US. Three Mile Island scared US off from building more plants. |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2003 : 01:53:54
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Mexico is in North America.
Denis
 "I joined the Cult of Frank/Turns out he's the stupidest person on Earth" |
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Danishboy
- FB Fan -
Denmark
175 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2003 : 02:31:51
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mun chien andalusia- I see your point, but the no-side prays on the fearside with succes.
In western-jutland there were many factories of different kind, many of those have moved to polan were the wages are cheaper.
Now with polan and many of the old communists countries as members, the common worker are afraid to lose their jobs to cheap laubor from the old east countries.
I think that maybe it was to soon that these countries became members, they have to raise their living standards first.
Man of steel |
Edited by - Danishboy on 12/15/2003 02:33:04 |
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