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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
 Posted - 11/21/2003 : 01:39:34
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I will try to have a listen online before giving you my final verdict.
 "I have been enslaved by the Cult of Ming / He is ever so merciless...unlike that nice Mr Black." |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2003 : 06:38:24
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| Dave I didnt think you refuted MY point on your prejudice. I stand by my comment. I dont think that you really refute it in your post. I thought you confirmed it actually. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2003 : 18:36:02
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| As i understand it, you commented about me being a bigot, and targetting Xianism exclusively, i think i responded to that adequately? |
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LivER_FisH
- FB Fan -
South Africa
57 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 09:37:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Hordak
quote:
Originally posted by LivER_FisH
2001 was inspired by the song lucy in the sky by the beatles i think
John prolly twisted lucy to be lucifer and then built a story around it
making lucifer the diamond
Do you even know what 2001 is? Stanley Kubrick was the director of the 1960's film. The film was an adaptation of the Arthur C. Clarke book, 2001.
Hordak Says:
Fuck that asshole Steve! Die die die motherfucker!!!
i've read the entire space odessy series |
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LivER_FisH
- FB Fan -
South Africa
57 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 09:39:12
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
quote:
Originally posted by LivER_FisH
2001 was inspired by the song lucy in the sky by the beatles i think John prolly twisted lucy to be lucifer and then built a story around it making lucifer the diamond
What the doodly-HOO-hah are you goin on about? I have never seen that analysis posited before. whoa.
it basically says that in one of those books, prolly 2010 or 3010
(cant exactly remember the years so dont sue me if they're wrong) |
Edited by - LivER_FisH on 11/24/2003 09:41:14 |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 09:53:20
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| Wow - so much for my reading retention - I obviously need to reread those books. No more posting for me! hahahahahahahah! |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2003 : 10:36:24
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Yeah, but it was: 2001, 2010, 2063, and 3001. I've read 'em all too, but I can't recall what happens in any but the first two.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2003 : 07:24:52
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It looks like we have a good cross -section of believers, non-believers and not-sures on the forum. I would be interested to see how opinions differ on the fundamentals regarding ‘creation’. Possible scenarios as follows:
1. Earth formed out of cosmic gases/dust cast from the centre of the solar system about 4.6 billion years ago. Earth slowly cools, the atmosphere develops and simple lifeforms established about 3 billion years. Dinosaurs etc etc leading to modern man emerging relatively recently via a process of evolution. The conditions suitable for life the result of coincidence rather than design.
2. Earth formed 4.6 billion years ago as scenario 1. God is the instigator/creator but lets evolution take its course as scenario 1.
3. Earth formed 4.6 billion years ago as scenario 1. Earth remains a barren place until God creates life within, say, the last 6,000 years.
4. Earth formed 6,000 years ago. i.e. a total ‘one-off’ creation that involves oceans, mountains, lifeforms all being created at a single point in time. Effectively a literal interpretation of the Old Testament.
I’m sure there are other versions and I have clearly simplified each scenario to keep it brief.
I go with scenario 1.
"I have been enslaved by the Cult of Ming / He is ever so merciless...unlike that nice Mr Black." |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2003 : 08:40:47
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| Let's just go with a little Gandhi and say all religions are true. |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2003 : 08:45:17
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Come on Carolyn - I was trying to stir up some debate here!
Ghandi made a lot of sense though. I keep meaning to read up on his life and teachings.
"I have been enslaved by the Cult of Ming / He is ever so merciless...unlike that nice Mr Black." |
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rockathon
- FB Fan -
241 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2003 : 09:10:19
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| moo |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2003 : 16:18:47
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Numero quattro.
You probably guessed that.
BTW, I'm past debating this, so call me an idiot all you like, knock yourself out.
 "I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid"
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2003 : 17:21:47
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Who called you an idiot? I don't think you're an idiot, probably nobody else does either, and they're idiots if they think that just because somebody has a different opinion than them.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 01:26:45
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You don't think I'm an idiot? You haven't met me!
"I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid"
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 02:44:38
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Cheeseman, come on, gulp down that extra strong coffee and hit me with some key facts to back up your no 4 theory!
Tell you what though, it gets very interesting when you have kids. We were beachcombing for fossils on the North Yorkshire coast on our summer holiday. 3-6 year olds ask a question every 10 seconds during their waking moments and looking for fossils got their brains fizzing. We found quite a few bits of ammonite and also jet (fossilised Monkey Puzzle tree). I explained as best I could about the passage of time over millions of years and how creatures fell to the bottom of the sea and slowly got covered over by sediment and how the crust moves up and down due to the tectonic plates. Therefore fossils appear in the cliff faces above sea level. My eldest is able to grasp some of these concepts and seems to find it all very fascinating.
How would you go about explaining the above to a child? And, more inportantly, what happens when you start to contradict what is being taught at school??
If you don't want to get stuck in, that's fine. I find the whole topic very interesting though. You should have a look at the Talk Origin website. Good stuff there although a lot of the visiting creationists appear to get enraged judging by the emails that are posted.
"I have been enslaved by the Cult of Ming / He is ever so merciless...unlike that nice Mr Black." |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 02:54:30
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I got in some majorly directionless debates already on this topic, so if you don't mind, I won't get stuck in now.
Dammit. One thing.
Evolution (as taught in schools) is still a theory, but is rarely taught as one.
"I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid"
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 03:08:18
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That's fine. I should be working anyway.
My two girls will probably rebel anyway and become born again Christians to wind me up!!
"I have been enslaved by the Cult of Ming / He is ever so merciless...unlike that nice Mr Black." |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 03:10:06
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Me too, although I'm in a room by myself waiting for work to come to me, so I'm in no rush!
"What are we going to do tonight, Brain?"
"Same thing we do every night, Pinky: try to take over the world!" |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 09:24:02
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quote:
Originally posted by bedrock_barneyTell you what though, it gets very interesting when you have kids. We were beachcombing for fossils on the North Yorkshire coast on our summer holiday. 3-6 year olds ask a question every 10 seconds during their waking moments and looking for fossils got their brains fizzing. We found quite a few bits of ammonite and also jet (fossilised Monkey Puzzle tree). I explained as best I could about the passage of time over millions of years and how creatures fell to the bottom of the sea and slowly got covered over by sediment and how the crust moves up and down due to the tectonic plates. Therefore fossils appear in the cliff faces above sea level. My eldest is able to grasp some of these concepts and seems to find it all very fascinating.
How would you go about explaining the above to a child? And, more inportantly, what happens when you start to contradict what is being taught at school??
Don't have any kids of my own but years ago I became involved with a lady who had a five yo daughter and a one yo son. Coming to grips with large scales of time and space does occur gradually in the developing mind. Eventually they can grasp an explanation that a globe is a map of the earth and that a half inch can represent a four hour drive to grandma's house. Though I made sure to never raise the issue of religion on my own, sooner or later they come home from school and ask whether you believe in god. I answered honestly in the negative and did my best with the inevitable "Why not?", with cautionary mention that in time they would have to decide such things for themselves and that I would respect their well-considered conclusions. While I was of course not completely successful in shielding them from my own philosophical prejudices, I was consistently dismayed at the alacrity with which most adults actively teach children that there is god, long before the child can remotely understand the scope and significance of such a belief. This strikes me as a form of intellectual child abuse. "If you want to go to heaven, believe this." Not many things are sadder than a five year old who tells you he or she believes in god, or in the opposite for that matter. If adults truly had faith in their beliefs, their gods, and their children, they might be able to forego imposing such metaphysical centerpieces on immature minds. If faith is solid, the least it might do is trust a well-raised child to come to its own, possibly similar, conclusions about the nature of the world and the human place in it. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11690 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 09:52:32
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I suppose that parents see it as their duty to raise their kids to believe what's right (to them). For someone who truly believes in God, I would imagine it would seem wrong to not teach their children about such things. I guess, to put it simply, we teach our children other right/wrong morals, based solely on our own morals and beliefs, so why should religion be any different? It would only seem different to someone who doesn't believe or accept those morals as right.
I'm not heavily religious nor even trying to argue your point, which I think is a good one and worth consideration, but I thought perhaps I might shine some light from the other viewpoint.
A friend of mine's sister, when she was younger (~7 years old), was playing in a playground and a Johovah's Witness approached her and started to attempt to convert her - I think even had her reciting lines at the point that her father had come across the playground to see what this adult was doing talking to his child for so long.
Now THAT is reprehensible in the extreme, and not being a violent person, I'd probably have beaten the ^@$^*@^()@$% out of the person instead of the tongue lashing that he received. People feel the need to push their morals on other people, and there are few situations where that's acceptable in my mind. Parenting is one of those situations, as long as it's done in an honest context. Brainwashing kids in the park is another story.
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 10:18:01
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Erebus, COF, you seem to be on my wavelength regarding this issue. It's a difficult one. The school where my children attend is very good. It's not overtly religious but they do have assemblies and recite prayers etc. They also make a point of discussing all religions and beliefs during lessons. I doubt very much that they discuss the concept of no God though.
My eldest (six and a half) is very inquisitive on all subjects and we try to give her straight answers whenever possible. Regarding God and religions we have explained that Mum and Dad don't necessarily believe that there is a God but, that on the other hand, many people do believe there is one. She accepted this quite happily. She's a big book reader and will make up her own mind when she is older. That's fine by me.
....unless she joins a weird cult of course!
[The Cult of Frank of course being an exception!]
"I have been enslaved by the Cult of Ming / He is ever so merciless...unlike that nice Mr Black." |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11690 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 11:19:29
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Heh, what about the cult of Ming?
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 11:30:20
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Nah, he's so merciless...and I don't like the way he's looking at me. He might have to be retired soon.
"I have been enslaved by the Cult of Ming / He is ever so merciless...unlike that nice Mr Black." |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5456 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 12:29:34
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I have a 5 year old daugther and she has received a full dose of evolutionary thinking from my wife (an anthropologist) and I (a biologist). That doesn't mean that she's taught religion is incorrect (evolution and religion can coexist).
One day she piped up about the origin of humans and first said something like, "for humans to evolve there would have to be two of them" (a mom and a dad) and then "we don't know humans evolved because to one was there to see it". My wife and I both instantly thought someone had been feeding arguments, but she said no one had. So good for her; they're good questions (easily answered in my opinion, but she's thinking).
Erebus - I agree. Young kids can't handle thoughts of long time periods or even long distances. Shoot, they can't even really comprehend life before they were born. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 12:33:50
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Holy cow,
too weird, I work with a bunch of Christians.
Anyway, my boss is working on getting his masters in divinity.
One of his projects/homework is to practice his evangelism
on some heathen such as myself.
Lunch today was interesting to say the least.
I've also been loaded up with a ton of C.S.Lewis books,
I'll get right on it;) |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5456 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 12:42:33
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| Seems inappropriate for a boss try to convert you. I guess if it doesn't bother you there's no harm. Maybe you can watch some Vegitale tapes. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 12:57:37
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He wasn't trying to convert me, well....
He asked me if he could practice on me.
it's a homework project to practice their evangelism.
And actually I will read the C.S.Lewis books,
he's agnostic or was at least and tries to prove christianity,
which makes for an interesting enough read.
Plus its the guy who wrote the Narnia Chronicles.
Vegitales, yikes, I got roped into going to see the Jonah one with the kids without knowing what it was. Longest hour and a half of my life. |
Edited by - Carolynanna on 11/26/2003 12:58:26 |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5456 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 13:05:51
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| I think read 2 or 3 of the Narnia books and it's been way too long to remember anything about them, but don't they have a Christian theme. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 13:21:59
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Nope they don't.
He is actually quite the intellectual/critical thinker,
Oxford prof and all.
So if I'm going to read a book on Christianity, I would like it to be as unbiased as possible and maybe possibly filled with some facts???!!!
Anyway at lunch he left it with, OK Carolyn if you have any questions
or concerns you can always discuss them with me.
Quick someone help me think up some shit to fuck with his mind!;) |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 14:04:03
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or at least to stump him,
c'mon guys it'll be fun. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5456 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 14:04:29
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| If you do a google search for: Narnia christianity you'll find a lot of speculation about the Christian themes in the books and how the lion represents either Jesus or the whole trinity. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 14:14:50
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Ah, interesting.
Makes me want to reread.
Well so much for unbiased... |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 14:33:40
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Don't pick the first item that comes up, he might say 'oh, did you find that on Google?'
heh..hate that!
Seems a little weird tho..practicing? Isn't it practicing all the time anyway? He's just using a less threatening approach. Not very cool, imo. |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2003 : 15:09:48
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CS Lewis was a Christian by the time he wrote most of his most famous books. Just like Lord Of The Rings, blaah-blaah-blaah, people will endlessly speculate on their content. Get over it, I say.
Screwtape Letters is interesting.
"What are we going to do tonight, Brain?"
"Same thing we do every night, Pinky: try to take over the world!" |
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