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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
 Posted - 11/13/2003 : 14:53:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
LOL - the new faith based initiatives! That is funny. They are ALL NEW!!
I called them that because President Bush calls them that...
 "I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 15:09:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Brackish Girl
quote:
Originally posted by realmeanmotorscutor
why do people have to swear on a bible when they testify?
ooh...good one.
Hey! That was me that said that!  |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 16:04:07
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umm, it's mine now. Mwahahaha.
 "I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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MangyKid
- FB Fan -
170 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 17:48:43
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I've just got one question here. I'm not religious or any thing, but when atheists get together, what do they do? would it be like this?
"Pretty cool nothing we got there, eh Dave?
"Yeah, I can feel no glorious blessing today."
"Yup, life's just a big coinkie-dink ain't it?"
"I love how I have no hope of an afterlife, it's really great to think that there's absolutely nothing after this."
"Which isn't bad you know, this is pretty good, I guess."
"It's as good as the Lord didn't make it, baby."
"Good one Ralph."
"So uh, how about that nothing again?"
"Shut up, Ralph." |
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MangyKid
- FB Fan -
170 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 17:50:26
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| Oh, I guess they'd have three-legged races too. |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 17:54:11
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Atheists tend to be (note the "tend") the biggest dicks alive. Most that I've met or know of are the epitome of pretention. So many of them think they're too smart for religion or God and yet they're not smart enough to disprove it either. I'm not saying there is or isn't a god, I'm not that bold or smart. I believe because there's nothing else to believe in and for as smart as some Atheists are, they're not smart enough to have any persuasive argument.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 18:02:08
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You believe because there's nothing else to believe in realmean? I'm curious and/or confused by that statement. Would you be interested in expounding upon that?
Hey! now this is startin' to border on this fun topic ;)
"Battleground GOD!"
http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3690
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
Edited by - apl4eris on 11/13/2003 18:02:31 |
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MangyKid
- FB Fan -
170 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 18:06:45
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I believe I'll know the truth when I see it. Until then, I'm not gonna argue against anything. Just seems that atheists should be leading a pretty depressing lifestyle.
If anything, atheism is the one religion that's safe to be against! No vengeful god there! |
Edited by - MangyKid on 11/13/2003 18:08:26 |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 18:10:40
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ok, that was misleading. I like to think that I believe b/c my faith is strong but if I'm to be honest with myself I have to admit that isn't the case. I believe b/c God is the only reasonable explanation. Until someone can prove to me otherwise I have to believe that life came from something beyond human comprehension. It may be a bold statement, but I'm confident no one will ever be able to offer such proof. Denying the possibility of God is pure stupidty and arrogance - quite the opposite from what atheists fancy themselves to be, intellectuals.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 18:11:59
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quote:
Originally posted by MangyKid
I believe I'll know the truth when I see it. Until then, I'm not gonna argue against anything. Just seems that atheists should be leading a pretty depressing lifestyle.
If anything, atheism is the one religion that's safe to be against! No vengeful god there!
it isn't a religion. it's the exact opposite of religion.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 18:14:28
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Has anybody here done that test thingy in that topic thingy I linked up thar? You may find it interesting....
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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MangyKid
- FB Fan -
170 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 18:16:18
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| I don't know what else to call it. Non-religious scientific belief? If it were just no religion, it wouldn't have a name. So I guess they wanted to be cool but couldn't think of a religion so their religion is no religion. On a form if they ask your religion, atheists would probably put "atheist", so hey. Am I making sense here? |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 18:17:09
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I think they call it a philosophy.
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 18:24:27
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yeah I did that Battleground God test. Interesting but, as I said in the thread, weak in its reasoning. I understand that it's only a game but still it is aggravating not being able to argue your point. I bet they got a lot of complaints hence their disclaimer.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 20:23:12
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I forgot you had taken that too scutor. Yeah - I thought it was a bit off myself, but fun anyway...
So, it seems the atheists have been taking it on the chin pretty hard here lately. I'll attempt to referee? heheh! Just something for a little pondering ;)
http://www.bettybowers.com/
Be afraid...be very afraid....
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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Hordak
- FB Fan -
USA
180 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 21:40:50
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I used to believe in God but now I just can't believe in a being who would let something so bad happen to me...
My wife has a split personality, and I hate both of them.
-- Anon |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 21:47:40
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quote:
Originally posted by realmeanmotorscutor
Atheists tend to be (note the "tend") the biggest dicks alive. Most that I've met or know of are the epitome of pretention. So many of them think they're too smart for religion or God and yet they're not smart enough to disprove it either. I'm not saying there is or isn't a god, I'm not that bold or smart. I believe because there's nothing else to believe in and for as smart as some Atheists are, they're not smart enough to have any persuasive argument.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye"
I'm agnostic. I don't think that the existence or absense of a god can be known. In particular one could never prove that there is no god. It's always difficult to prove the absence of something. Even if the origin of life and universe can be explained, there will still be the possibility that some god started the steps earlier than the universe.
Even though I don't think one can know that there is or isn't a god, one can still have their own belief about it. I believe that there isn't a god and I think there are good reasons for believing that. If someone else tells me that they believe there is a god I have to respect that. However, like scutor said it is arrogant or delusional for someone to say that they know there is no god or that there is a god. Sure, many atheist are over confident in their pronouncements, but surely you recognize that many religous people are equally sure that they know that there is a god. |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 21:51:32
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I tend to agree here -- more of the so-called "creationist scientists" seem too caught up in proving their point and trying to subvert someone else's opinion by citing how ignorant it is.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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Hordak
- FB Fan -
USA
180 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 22:06:23
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quote:
Originally posted by MangyKid
I've just got one question here. I'm not religious or any thing, but when atheists get together, what do they do? would it be like this?
"Pretty cool nothing we got there, eh Dave?
"Yeah, I can feel no glorious blessing today."
"Yup, life's just a big coinkie-dink ain't it?"
"I love how I have no hope of an afterlife, it's really great to think that there's absolutely nothing after this."
"Which isn't bad you know, this is pretty good, I guess."
"It's as good as the Lord didn't make it, baby."
"Good one Ralph."
"So uh, how about that nothing again?"
"Shut up, Ralph."
I guess when Christians get together it's something like this:
"So, Herb, how's your faith today?"
"Grand, Stu! My belief in God is at an all-time high!"
"Really? My gratefulness in all of the wonders of God's creations just about made me cream my pants when I woke up this morning!"
"Marvelous!"
Long Pause
"So, Herb, how about that eternal graciousness of God, eh?"
"Simply stunning. I can feel his forgiving nature surround me in a cocoon of warmth!"
"How foolish those atheists are -- and yet, driven by God's grace I feel no contempt for them, only a self-satisfied righteousness in my own convictions!"
"YEAH!"
Herb and Stu give each other a high-five
My wife has a split personality, and I hate both of them.
-- Anon |
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Hordak
- FB Fan -
USA
180 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 22:12:57
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quote:
Originally posted by MangyKid
I believe I'll know the truth when I see it. Until then, I'm not gonna argue against anything. Just seems that atheists should be leading a pretty depressing lifestyle.
If anything, atheism is the one religion that's safe to be against! No vengeful god there!
Are you really telling me that the happiness and self-fufillment you feel in your everyday existence is defined by your belief in God? (Which, since you said you "weren't religious or anything" don't seem that strong?)
The only people I know who find the supreme happiness in life from religion are...well...well, fuck, I don't know anyone like that. I doubt you do either, as they are few and far between. Most alleged "Christians" aren't even like that.
You don't seem as though you have the conviction nor the knowledge to make a very effective case against atheist, you just seem like someone who does not like them.
My wife has a split personality, and I hate both of them.
-- Anon |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 22:16:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Hordak
quote:
Originally posted by MangyKid
I believe I'll know the truth when I see it. Until then, I'm not gonna argue against anything. Just seems that atheists should be leading a pretty depressing lifestyle.
If anything, atheism is the one religion that's safe to be against! No vengeful god there!
Are you really telling me that the happiness and self-fufillment you feel in your everyday existence is defined by your belief in God? (Which, since you said you "weren't religious or anything" don't seem that strong?)
The only people I know who find the supreme happiness in life from religion are...well...well, fuck, I don't know anyone like that. I doubt you do either, as they are few and far between. Most alleged "Christians" aren't even like that.
You don't seem as though you have the conviction nor the knowledge to make a very effective case against atheist, you just seem like someone who does not like them.
My wife has a split personality, and I hate both of them.
-- Anon
Dude, why so bitter?
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 22:25:02
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quote:
Originally posted by glacial906
Dude, why so bitter?
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
Was it any more bitter than the first posting saying atheist lead depressing lives? |
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Hordak
- FB Fan -
USA
180 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2003 : 22:28:11
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quote:
Originally posted by realmeanmotorscutor
Denying the possibility of God is pure stupidty and arrogance - quite the opposite from what atheists fancy themselves to be, intellectuals.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye"
This is exactly the kind of thing that I am talking about when I say that creationists are way too caught up in subverting the opinion of those who believe in a more scientific viewpoint...
My wife has a split personality, and I hate both of them.
-- Anon |
Edited by - Hordak on 11/13/2003 22:28:53 |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 02:06:34
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I'd have to agree with scutor here. It is arrogant to believe you know exactly whats right, whether you're an atheist, or a creationist scientist or whatever. The whole point of a faith is that its founded on faith, i.e. a deeply held conviction. This means that those who claim to 'have faith' in God, including myself, have to trust that what we're believing is right.
I have looked at many many things in regards to this, but I've never found anything to disprove my beliefs. I think people are put of Christians by their dogmatism, and thats totally understandable in many cases. Many Christians have a habit of attempting to force their views on people, whereas people should, of course, be free to choose what they believe.
The only other thing I'd say is that Hordak, you seem to be of the opinion that science and reason are completely infallible. However, aren't theories always being disproved and altered? Isn't that what science is? And as for reason and logic, if one believes in a higher power, such as God, one must, by definition, be able to accept that certain things are outside of man's understanding and grasp. For example, the concept of eternity doesn't work in a human's mind.
 "I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid"
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 02:40:41
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To argue the existence of "God" on a rational/logical basis is paradoxical, and fun!
Digging through the zen-forum.com, random thoughts on generic "existence":
It exists.
"It does not exist.
It both exists and does not exist.
It neither exists nor does not exist."
"Non-existence does not exist, cannot exist. Can you show me non-existence?
Non-existence is not a paradox, it simply does not exist.
Existence is a paradox however. Can you show me existence?"
**"The moment you try to define Tao. You have already missed the point."**
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 02:44:10
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You can tell its 5:30am where you are, apl!
"I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid"
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 02:47:11
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yeah. You're right, I know. You know what's even worse? I've had Paul Simon's "Graceland" on perpetual replay in my brain since I went to sleep. It won't stop.
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 02:50:35
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There's worse things you can have in your head
"Graceland, Graceland, Memphis Tenessee, talking 'bout Graceland, Graceland, [doobely-doobely-doo, bop bop]"
"I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid"
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 04:49:21
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Oh sweet jesus - that's the exact refrain I keep hearin over an over - you're some kinda freak - how'd ya know that? Oh, and just to add another touch of insanity to the mix, just as I was typing this, a bird flew into the window in front of me. I'm guessing by the force of impact, it's dead.
Yep. it's gonna be a strange day, I reckon.
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 04:53:52
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I like this thread. Good debating material - just wish I had more time on my hands to get truly stuck in. Anyway I have been an agnostic for many years and, if anything, I am leaning more towards atheism these days. I see no physical evidence that there is a god and I am quite content with that ‘belief’.
I perceive religion to be a comfort blanket for human beings. In days gone past humans had very little understanding about how the world and the universe worked and this lack of knowledge would clearly have been very frightening. I’m sure my viewpoint would have been radically different if I had been living in 7th C Britain. However, and this is a big however, the incredible advances in technology and dissemination of information over the last say 200 years have removed a lot of the uncertainties that had always existed. I think that a lot of people continue to believe in god because it is the easiest option, just in the way that they will watch crap Saturday night television rather than a hard hitting documentary; or read the The Mirror rather than The Independent. I know these are somewhat crass analogies but they hopefully help get my point across.
I’m certainly not depressed, stupid (although I’m keen on sprouts - see other thread!), or arrogant as some posts have implied. If anything I am intrigued by deeply religious people. We get the occasional Mormon knocking on our door. They are always Americans, extremely polite and well dressed but seemingly unable to properly debate the issue of god’s existence or otherwise. I am seen as a person who needs to be saved and I think that they feel genuinely sorry for me and probably cannot understand how I can be a well adjusted happy person who just happens to not believe in a god.
I am also baffled that there are many people who literally believe the proclamations of the bible are totally correct. In particular the whole god created earth bit. The young earth creationist theories are barmy in this day and age.
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 05:18:37
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i have a very strong faith, and i am not ashamed to say it. if you don't believe - thats fine. i'm not a forced conversion type. the only thing that bothers me is how athiests attack believers because they believe - not because of some personal reason (ie. they're an asshole) - if you don't like me, thats cool. just don't like me for me, not something i ascribe too. ditto for people who hate republicans/democrats BECAUSE they're republicans/democrats. my dad and i are on total opposite ends of the political spectrum, ditto for some of my friends - do i hate them? no! thats just ignorant and foolish. my point, if there is one, well sir, just don't judge people on their associations to larger groups - if you must judge, judge becuase i like video games and slack off.
-brian
 - "I joined the Cult of Frank / And they tried to cut off my nuts and make me put on a blue jumpsuit"
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 05:42:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face
i have a very strong faith, and i am not ashamed to say it. if you don't believe - thats fine. i'm not a forced conversion type. the only thing that bothers me is how athiests attack believers because they believe - not because of some personal reason (ie. they're an asshole) - if you don't like me, thats cool. just don't like me for me, not something i ascribe too. ditto for people who hate republicans/democrats BECAUSE they're republicans/democrats. my dad and i are on total opposite ends of the political spectrum, ditto for some of my friends - do i hate them? no! thats just ignorant and foolish. my point, if there is one, well sir, just don't judge people on their associations to larger groups - if you must judge, judge becuase i like video games and slack off.
-brian
- "I joined the Cult of Frank / And they tried to cut off my nuts and make me put on a blue jumpsuit"
..er..is this a reply to my post??
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Edited by - bedrock_barney on 11/14/2003 05:44:25 |
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interloper
= Cult of Ray =
440 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 06:07:44
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| Seperation of church and state my ass. Make em pay taxes like everyone else. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 06:09:43
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specially now that they're getting our tax money for their "initiatives". New or old, I don't care.
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2003 : 09:57:53
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quote:
Originally posted by bedrock_barney
I see no physical evidence that there is a god and I am quite content with that ‘belief’.
I perceive religion to be a comfort blanket for human beings. In days gone past humans had very little understanding about how the world and the universe worked and this lack of knowledge would clearly have been very frightening. I’m sure my viewpoint would have been radically different if I had been living in 7th C Britain. However, and this is a big however, the incredible advances in technology and dissemination of information over the last say 200 years have removed a lot of the uncertainties that had always existed. I think that a lot of people continue to believe in god because it is the easiest option
bedrock barney, I don't mean to attack you personally and certainly didn't meant to say that you were stupid or arrogant. With that disclaimer I have to say that your post is very interesting especially given that my roomate and I were discussing your exact way of thinking just last night.
I'm starting to read "A Brief History of Time" and in it there's a part about an old woman who stands up at a lecture on the Universe and says, "The world in on a turtle's back." The lecturer smiles somewhat mockingly and says, "and what's underneath the turtle?" She says, "It's turtles all the way down," and he had no reply. The point here is that you put too much faith in what you know and even in what you might know. What you percieve to be advances in knowledge are pathetic and haven't even begun to scratch the surface. A big problem with adamant non-believers today is that they feel our greater intelligence must somehow change our views on God. "People were ignorant ages ago and had no choice but to believe in God; surely we must be above such primitive thinking today." That is arrogance and assumes that we are somehow becoming enlightened. Many things have changed and yet God has remained a constant. We haven't yet any reason not to believe and will probably not survive long enough to find such proof even if it does exists. Rather than call yourself an Atheist why not just say you don't know as there is no proof either way? Why the need to take sides? Saying you're an Atheist (and I'm speaking to no one in particular here) because there is no proof of the existence of God is patently stupid as there is no proof of the nonexistence of God.
In any event, believing in God might be a comfort blanket but it might very well not be and ridicule should be reserved for an age when it is justified, otherwise atheists are simply making pompous asses of themselves.
Again, this wasn't directed at anyone and I don't mean to offend anyone or their beliefs but merely meant to illustrate that claiming to know anything for sure immediately makes you a fool.
Interstingly however, Carl Jung did say that he didn't need to have faith in God because he knew God existed. What a statement - how foolish.
Rowan Atkinson as the Devil in hell: Atheists? Atheists are you here? Yes, well aren't you feeling a right bunch of asses?
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
Edited by - realmeanmotorscutor on 11/14/2003 10:01:19 |
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