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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
 Posted - 11/06/2003 : 16:47:22
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Who here knows it? I was thinking about taking a night course on Esperanto next semester but I'm not sure it's worth it. I mean I know it's not worth it but it might be fairly interesting.
If Esperanto actually did catch on, wouldn't that have serious religios implications? I know that it never would but if it did I suppose then next step would be creating a universal currency and spitting in the face of God.
 "I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2003 : 17:56:32
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| Does anyone own any of those obscure albums of William Shatner performing in Esperanto? Those are good times. Other than that, I don't really know much about the "language" other than the concept which is very amusing. |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2003 : 18:23:15
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Did he really do that?? Holy crud, Shatner rules. Only I'm serious, I think Shatner is awesome while most people just make fun of him.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2003 : 18:46:49
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i think that the esperanto concept is respectable yet wrong.respectable because it was thought to be a universal language capable of eliminating the communication problems between different cultures.wrong because language is a fundamental element of culture and eliminating a language means eliminating the culture that generated it.imagine socrates or shakespeare or umberto eco in esperanto.
 join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.munchienandalusia.too.it
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JamesM
= Cult of Ray =
308 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2003 : 19:13:13
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Mun Chien - pardon my language, but you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. It wasn't imagined as a replacement of the languages. L. L. Zamenhof created the language as a go-between for languages, a second language for all languages, that would sort of break down the "fourth wall" or whatever the fuck you want to call it. The paradigm Esperanto would serve as a way for cultures to be able to communicate ideas fluidly and most importanty CONCRETELY. Nothing would be "lost in translation".
Also Socrates or Umbert Eco in Esperanto? Huh? Socrates's dialogues in the Symposium or The Republic are just as pertinent in English or French as they were in the original Greek. Umbert Eco is a fantastic author; but from what I "lose in translation" from Italian to English is probably equivilant to what I'd lose from Italian to Esperanto.
In short, I'd take a class in Esperanto if it really interested you, in fact, that's the only reason someone probably would take Esperanto, as the learning the language really has no economical ramifications.
-Jimmy M. |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2003 : 19:23:33
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also, language develops gradually and cannot be forced.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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Johnny Yen
= Cult of Ray =
USA
408 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2003 : 19:50:37
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| Ya know, english has kind of taken the place esperanto wanted as far as worldwide communications/second language/whatever. I would just like to point out that TMBG referenced esperanto in song long before FB did. |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2003 : 20:13:19
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quote:
Only I'm serious, I think Shatner is awesome while most people just make fun of him.
Shatner is both awesome and easily mockable. They're not exclusive characteristics, you know.
quote:
Posted - 11/06/2003 : 19:50:37
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Ya know, english has kind of taken the place esperanto wanted as far as worldwide communications/second language/whatever.
I think French was kind of like that at one point, hence the term "lingua franca."
quote:
I would just like to point out that TMBG referenced esperanto in song long before FB did.
You KNOW that that's a bitch.
-Nathan
And how does lemur's skin reflect the sea?
http://vovat.blogspot.com/ |
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BrendanT
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
907 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2003 : 20:30:19
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Take a look at the Esperanto translation dictionary. I have always wondered what a course might be like? Take it and tell me. It sounds fascinating. What school is offering this?
Strummer-man
I had me a vision!
It's step, hip, step, pivot! Are you trying to piss-off the volcano?! |
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Crispy Water
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
819 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2003 : 21:17:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Yen
Ya know, english has kind of taken the place esperanto wanted as far as worldwide communications/second language/whatever. I would just like to point out that TMBG referenced esperanto in song long before FB did.
Sure English has taken over for the time being. A hundred years ago it was French, the "international language of business;" it's based on the trends of commerce - all it will take to unseat English is another twenty, twenty-five years. By then China will be the dominant world economy and we'll all have to learn Chinese if we want to feel like responsible, cultured capitalists. Already I can't believe how many people I know are taking Chinese, Japanese in business school. You're right about taking the place of Esperanto though, as shortly after it was conceived the tide started to turn the way of English. That's just coincidence - but I don't mean it as a knock. How could I knock anyone who keeps referencing They Might Be Giants?
Nothing is ever something. |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2003 : 08:36:46
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quote:
Originally posted by realmeanmotorscutor
Did he really do that?? Holy crud, Shatner rules. Only I'm serious, I think Shatner is awesome while most people just make fun of him.[i]
Okay, it was actually a movie called Incubus. I swear there was an album too but in my "web research" I only found this;
"Lost for over 30 years...William Shatner stars as Marc, a soldier of pure heart who has just returned home injured from the war. He becomes the target of Kia, a beautiful female demon, who has become bored with taking the lives of corrupt men. Kia sets out to seduce Marc, but ends up falling in love, angering her sister demon and forcing her to summon the incubus to wreak revenge. Incubus is the only film shot entirely in the artificial language of Esperanto."
Hee! 
Here is the website (with photos!) if you want to check it out:
http://www.parrygamepreserve.com/articles/incubus.jsp |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2003 : 10:53:06
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HAHAHA! O man, I need to check that out.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2003 : 11:01:47
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| Let's not underestimate the power of accents to befuddle any language... |
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Valhalla
- FB Fan -
Germany
80 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2003 : 14:12:23
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if you really want to, you can practice esperanto, but in the land of pronto, the wind it tastes like gasoline
llano-llano :D
Andre |
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Johnny Yen
= Cult of Ray =
USA
408 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2003 : 16:31:20
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quote:
Crispy Water Posted - Sure English has taken over for the time being. A hundred years ago it was French, the "international language of business;"
Crispy, thanks for all the learnin'. I love information like this, and was unaware of the previous position of French (makes me think of that old Steve Martin routine). Yes, surely English will be dominated in the future by a language equally confusing, and I think Japanese with their 3(?) differnt sets of characters is a prime candidate. |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2003 : 16:38:19
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English will not be dominated - certainly not in 25 years. It's the most widely spoken language in the world has has a strength hundreds of years in the making that nothing could topple in any short time.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2003 : 16:49:42
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I was just about to buy a book and learn it myself. I was also thinking of taking a Chinese clas with my husband. Not sure if I would want to learn Mandarin or Cantonese - which is more prevalent? Anyone know? I like the concept of Esperanto - even if it never reaches its ultimate goals.
"Language is a virus."
-William S. Burroughs
"I can't stand all this sex on the television. I mean, I keep falling off!"
 "I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2003 : 16:50:55
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How long was Latin the "learned" language of Europe? Long after the fall of the western half of Rome (and long after Joe Harriman has become mayor of Los Angeles) it was still used as a linguistic epitome for all the writers, and "cultural elite" of Europe...
If it's happened with Latin Greek, and German, (and the various Asian languages, which I know nothing about) then maybe 4 or 500 years from now whatever "new" language is in place might be based on English the way that French and Spanish are primarily based in Latin.
Just a thought.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2003 : 17:14:59
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apl, my guess is that cantonese is more prevelant but that's really just an uneducated guess.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2003 : 18:01:52
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Thanks, motorscutor, I thought so - need to look into it more. Whoa, I almost felt compelled to respond in haiku - I was just in that thread a little too long. I prefer the sound/timbre/musicality of Mandarin, but beyond it being a choice of functionality, I also want to learn it to be able to read the literature in its original form (Da Xue, Tao Te Ching, I Ching, etc.) My husband's been going to a 3rd or 4th generation Chinese acupunturist, who has written a book on healing and the Tao, (sure would be nice to read it before having to wait for the translation!) - we'll ask him what he would advise....
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 01:38:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Crispy Water
Sure English has taken over for the time being. A hundred years ago it was French, the "international language of business;" it's based on the trends of commerce - all it will take to unseat English is another twenty, twenty-five years. By then China will be the dominant world economy and we'll all have to learn Chinese if we want to feel like responsible, cultured capitalists. Already I can't believe how many people I know are taking Chinese, Japanese in business school.
And then Stuart will be our king.
 "I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid"
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 10:37:34
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I was under an old misguided belief that our nation was one vote away from German being declared our official language. Before I commented on it here, I did a little fact checking. Apparently the "one-vote" margin was a legend. This website has an interesting summary of the US and its formative language battles:
from http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JWCRAWFORD/LLPT1.htm
"To the extent that language played a nationalistic role in our history, it has usually involved the competition between British and American English. The young Webster hoped to foster differences between the two, believing that "as an independent nation, our honor requires us to have a system of our own, in language as well as government." Dennis Baron reports that after the Revolution there was even some idle talk about getting rid of English in favor of German, French, Greek, or Hebrew as the national tongue. The legend, however, that German failed by one vote to become our official language is just that – a tall tale popularized by aficionados of German culture. In 1923 Washington J. McCormick, a Montana Congressman, introduced the first official language proposal ever considered at the federal level: a bill to enshrine "American" in the place of English. As is generally the case, this language dispute was a symptom of underlying political tensions – Westerners versus New Englanders, and in some areas, Irish Americans versus the British empire."
more on the US/German legend here:
http://german.about.com/library/weekly/aa010820b.htm
"I partied with the Cult of Frank / Bob ate all the dip" |
Edited by - apl4eris on 11/10/2003 10:41:50 |
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Crispy Water
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
819 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 11:10:41
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quote:
Originally posted by realmeanmotorscutor
English will not be dominated - certainly not in 25 years. It's the most widely spoken language in the world has has a strength hundreds of years in the making that nothing could topple in any short time.
I guess my written tone isn't quite facetious enough. I know English will probably still dominate business for the remainder of our lifetimes, but I have a hard time believing it will never be unseated. I believe these things work in cycles and that it's just kind of hard to remember that when it's something that changes gradually, even over several generations. How can we keep that in perspective when it's all we've ever seen and all we'll ever know?
English does have an advantage in this battle: it has served a very important role during a time when information has become incredibly transferable worldwide. It's something unlike what the world had seen before, which will make it that much more difficult to change, but I still can't believe that this will never happen.
Also, I believe English is only geographically the most widespread language. In terms of actual breathing humans speaking, what I've read is that English takes third behind Mandarin and Spanish.
Nothing is ever something. |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 13:25:26
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yeah, that's what I meant by widespread - so Mandarin is the most popular eh? There you go apl.
Good points about the spread of information in English. I wonder how long it will take to change the fact that English rules. Though China has more speakers it is still going to be difficult to overcome such a widely accepted "world language" for business and information.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2003 : 18:02:28
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quote:
Originally posted by ramona
quote:
Originally posted by realmeanmotorscutor
Did he really do that?? Holy crud, Shatner rules. Only I'm serious, I think Shatner is awesome while most people just make fun of him.[i]
Okay, it was actually a movie called Incubus. I swear there was an album too but in my "web research" I only found this;
"Lost for over 30 years...William Shatner stars as Marc, a soldier of pure heart who has just returned home injured from the war. He becomes the target of Kia, a beautiful female demon, who has become bored with taking the lives of corrupt men. Kia sets out to seduce Marc, but ends up falling in love, angering her sister demon and forcing her to summon the incubus to wreak revenge. Incubus is the only film shot entirely in the artificial language of Esperanto."
Hee!
Here is the website (with photos!) if you want to check it out:
http://www.parrygamepreserve.com/articles/incubus.jsp
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN |
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