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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
 Posted - 10/27/2003 : 09:38:53
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There seems to be a depression/old girlfriends bitterness type thingy on the boards today so I thought I’d pop in a technical (ish) question as a bit of a foil.
After many months of intensive lobbying I have secured tacit agreement from my good lady wife regarding the purchase of a new Hi-Fidelity unit!! 
This is clearly a very good thing but I am feeling punch-drunk after reading endless Hi-fi mags and visiting the local store a few times (I think I’m starting to annoy them).
If we are all commonly linked by FB and Pixies then you must have some clever thoughts regarding the stuff we all use to play the music. So to the quest….…
I am totally replacing my current system (it will be relegated to become a kid’s playroom device). I need to buy an amp, a cd player and a pair of speakers.
Amp - doesn’t need bells and whistles, Just want a warm sound with some power in the bass department.
Cd player - not sure what I want.
Speakers - leaning towards floor standers. Looks are important (only condition placed on purchase by my better half). Therefore needs to be a real wood finish and a good one at that.
I have about £600 - 700 to spend on each component ($1000) and have vaguely narrowed down to:
Amp - Roksan, Cyrus, Arcam
Cd player - as above
Speakers - Proac 125’s (look great but are higher than my budget allows). Also Quad 22L’s being considered.
Any help would be appreciated so that I can approach the shop with some kind of game plan. Whatever I listen to will be better than my current set up so I am not expecting to be very objective. Advice from friendly North Americans welcome but try not to suggest obscure makes/models that will be difficult to get hold of on this side of the pond. Thanks.
Of course, if you are all listening to FB on your walkman’s, pc’s, dvd players, mobile phones, plastic cups on string, then I’m wasting my time!!
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 10:23:24
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Wow. I envy you as i wish I could swoop in and replace my main stereo. I've already got the speakers, a floor standing pair of Infinity speakers from the 70's that rock me amadeus.
As for a new amp, questions...
Do you want surround sound? Are you doing this together with your TV? |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 10:24:56
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Oh yeah, the reason I ask is thus...if you are as for the cd player, I'd skip it and get a good DVD player or changer as you can also play cds and it's one less component you need to purchase.
That's the way I did it and I am happy. I also bought one that plays mp3 cds and burned cds and dvds as I do a lot of computer stuff. |
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 10:37:54
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KEF speakers generally are highly regarded -i have a cheap pair and i have no complaints.
as to the FB sound it actually kicks ass.
i went with a budget CD player (hifi wise) -the cambridge DC300 is excellent for the money
-been well improved since i got one and they seem to know what they are doingas it has a very natural sound for the money.
-my take always being on a budget and yet wanting bang for the buck would be to go with
very shrewd budget equipment like said CD player (bottom line is does it produce an accurate
recreation af the original -technically nearly impossible)Linn hifi is good hi end.
and then splurge on as good a tube amp deal as you can find for the money -generally they
can be expensive but if you shop the web you will be surprised at what you can learn about
what is available and then go to a local dealer to see if he can dig it up for you at an equal
price or better. there is something to FB&C going back to wacky old analogue (at least as the
recorded source) AND there is something to the tube amps' warmth towards the natural that
one would think is a natural pairing.
smoothing out those modern bits and bytes into an original soundwave is the key to bliss
and theory has it that analog in it's better forms does a superior job to that end.
i've seen kit tube amps pre-assembled that were 4 or 500 U.S. dollars.
www.saturdayaudioexchange could be educational for budget high end shopping
as well as decibel.com -both in U.S. but it really doesn't matter -a lot of the good
stuff is made in britain.
r |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 10:42:39
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quote:
Originally posted by the swimmer
Oh yeah, the reason I ask is thus...if you are as for the cd player, I'd skip it and get a good DVD player or changer as you can also play cds and it's one less component you need to purchase.
That's the way I did it and I am happy. I also bought one that plays mp3 cds and burned cds and dvds as I do a lot of computer stuff.
Hey swimmer - we don't have a dvd player yet, and I want all those capabilities (incl. dvd burning) in the unit we do get (we gotta get one now because we just bought Buckaroo Banzai and Space Ghost C2C on dvd!) - what brand/model did you buy? Any recommendations? |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 10:47:03
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If money was no object:
the Ming Da 300B/845 monoblock amplifiers ($10,000, pictured here), the ultra-high resolving Xindak foil loudspeaker cables and the impedance correcting SEEC active signal interconnects. The Ming Da power amplifiers are dual chassis monoblocks that employ two 300B driver tubes and two 845 output tubes. The separate 60-pound power supply rounds out this double-decker design in techno-chrome. The Ming Da monoblock delivers 70 watts of pure "Class A" and sports an analog VU meter on front panel.
The new Teres Audio model 265 turntable ($3,700) features a lead loaded platter constructed from solid hardwood. According to Teres Audio, "Hardwood sounds dramatically better than any other platter material we have heard. The improvements are across the board. Detail, smoothness, warmth, pace, clarity, you name it and hardwood does it better. The musical beauty delivered by this turntable must be heard to be appreciated. This radical new Teres turntable offers a level of musicality that we believe is simply without peer." To insure dimensional stability of the wood platter, a variation of "Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique" (WEST) commonly employed in boat construction is implemented where small pieces of wood (Jatoba and Cocobolo) are saturated with epoxy are joined in a complex matrix to form the platter. Turntable dimensions are 17 x 13 x 8 (WxDxH in inches) and overall weight is 60 lbs.
Mårten Design new Coltrane floorstanding loudspeaker (€39,500 per pair) is the Swedish company's flagship loudspeaker. The materials and components employed in this design include carbon fiber cabinetry, ceramic midrange and woofer drivers, plus a diamond tweeter. This 89dB/W/m sensitive loudspeaker presents a 4 ohm load to produce frequencies from 20Hz to 20kHz. Two 9-inch ceramic woofers are mated to a 4-inch ceramic midrange and 0.75-inch diamond tweeter. Loudspeaker terminals are by WBT while overall dimensions are 12.3 x 44.5 x 24 (HxWxD in inches). Mårten Design's Monk (€3,300) and Mingus (€4,750) have more traditional cabinets made of veneered, laminated MDF-board with dampening glue in between. The drivers are supplied by Thiel, Partner/Accuton and SEAS. Crossover components include copper foil coils and polypropylene capacitors.
All that and an 8 track player
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 10:58:50
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a dedicated quality reader is the heart of a good CD player and DVD readers ARE good
compared to some from years ago but if you look at what an optical reader in a CD player has to
do AND how extremely sensitive they are to vibration etc. (way more than a turntable believe
it or not!) than you would get a dedicated CD player for the home -you don't hear the problems
it can be having because of error correction built into the circuitry-but think about it..
if it has to constantly correct errors in taking that sound to your amp then you are getting
less real sound -typical high-end features try to isolate the seperate components from each other and let them do their job -such as the power transformer as far away from the reader as possible with a copper housing or whatever.
it makes sense because than you have to take that info and convert it to analog to go into pre-amp or digital into a digital input -both need some degree of quality in choice of equipment
as this is a constant stream of a very lot of info per second etc.
hell i listen to minidisc in the car and it's not a high end format and the thing is bouncing
around doing error correction constantly -but that's in the car -at home you have a chance to
really hear what's going on if you do it right
r |
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 11:02:35
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i saw a turntable that was 89,000$ -everything was air powered -no parts touched the other
-complete isolation.
cool pics schwimmer, turntables can get wacky -a friend of mine built his own
for 1200 bucks that rocks the casbah and he built his own wash/vaccuum machine
which alone if you saw it would make you agree that this guy gets mad scientist of the year
award.
r |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 11:13:56
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I can't tell if that picture I put is a turntable or a cake holder.
Either way it's sweet.
Dude, I wish I could make my own washing and drying machines. |
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guy_nolan
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
417 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 11:27:34
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Why do people feel the need to spend so much money on Hi-fi equipment? I mean in the end it's not going to sound any better than it originally sounded in the studio. I think a lot of it is psychological. My ear can't distinguish the difference between a High end Bang and Olfsun I once had the chance to listen to and my own Aiwa midi system, (5 Md, 3 Cd). I realise this is just my personal opinion so don't bite my head off, but can the people with half a million dollar speakers really hear a different song to everyone else?
Give 1000 monkey's 1000 typewriters and you're gonna be reading bullshit for the rest of your life. |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 11:53:25
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Guy you are 100% correct. I have heard that sentiment from people in the buisness of making records that people listen to on this stuff and they say the EXACT same thing.
I wish we could all go back to the beautiful Victrola actually.....
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 12:01:47
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quote:
Originally posted by guy_nolan
Why do people feel the need to spend so much money on Hi-fi equipment? I mean in the end it's not going to sound any better than it originally sounded in the studio. I think a lot of it is psychological. My ear can't distinguish the difference between a High end Bang and Olfsun I once had the chance to listen to and my own Aiwa midi system, (5 Md, 3 Cd). I realise this is just my personal opinion so don't bite my head off, but can the people with half a million dollar speakers really hear a different song to everyone else?
Give 1000 monkey's 1000 typewriters and you're gonna be reading bullshit for the rest of your life.
i can't quantify every variable -but it can boil down to things like a carpet or rug in your space to kill reflection.
-things of different manufacture do make better or worse sounds
and that is a fact -i can hear those differences for some reason
-a lot of it is psychological -noticing or not that is-like being in the right frame of mind to actually pay attention and notice a sound
and the way it appears -it will guaranteed not sound exactly as in
the studio -but the right equipment may make it sound better.
it's what pleases your ears is bottom line.
r |
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 12:03:09
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quote:
Originally posted by the swimmer
I can't tell if that picture I put is a turntable or a cake holder.
Either way it's sweet.
Dude, I wish I could make my own washing and drying machines.
-i think it is one o' those mono block amps -definitely sweet
-the wood thing is a turntable and it looks like it would rock.
r |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 12:07:29
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We have an old portable one - it's great! we have a lot of 78's and one-sides, mostly old jazz, dixieland, and old blues, but we're afraid to play them too much before we can record them, and we haven't quite figured out the best way to do that yet. Another cool thing about the victrola is all the old personal recordings you can find out there - we have a couple of families playing harmonica, banjo, etc., and others of singing, it's incredible and really moving somehow...
swimmer - did you not see my question to you up there about your dvd player? or did you just want to ignore it? if it's the latter, well, shit! ;) |
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 12:10:41
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oh, the other thing about good pricey stuff -you can be enjoying it 15 years or more down the road minimum -Sony build quality sucks by the way -nice R&D and design but horrifying factory build standards on their stuff in the stereo shops their high end stuff is supposedly better
but frankly i had a DAT deck by them that was bought in tokyo and shipped over (just cause they weren't sold here yet) and the re-wind motor started failing slowly but surely after 2 years ($700 dollar deck at the time)-had an ES series cassette that had shorts in it forever -
bad welds -AND went through three sony mini stereos of various types until we go one where the
cassette actually worked out of the box -i mean c'mon bigass sony can't even get a deck out the door that works on the floor? -JVC is horrifying as far as i can tell also.
-pioneer is actually pretty good.
r |
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 12:11:51
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
We have an old portable one - it's great! we have a lot of 78's and one-sides, mostly old jazz, dixieland, and old blues, but we're afraid to play them too much before we can record them, and we haven't quite figured out the best way to do that yet. Another cool thing about the victrola is all the old personal recordings you can find out there - we have a couple of families playing harmonica, banjo, etc., and others of singing, it's incredible and really moving somehow...
swimmer - did you not see my question to you up there about your dvd player? or did you just want to ignore it? if it's the latter, well, shit! ;)
check www.dustygroove.com they got a sweet portable for crate diggin'.
r |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 12:11:56
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jeezus! I keep getting ignored today. ah, nevermind. thbbbpppthhh.
oops! spoke too soon! thanks blarg....:)
uh, wait a minute - watchu talkin bout blarg? portable what? I was goin on about a portable victrola...? |
Edited by - apl4eris on 10/27/2003 12:13:46 |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 12:14:28
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
quote:
Originally posted by the swimmer
Oh yeah, the reason I ask is thus...if you are as for the cd player, I'd skip it and get a good DVD player or changer as you can also play cds and it's one less component you need to purchase.
That's the way I did it and I am happy. I also bought one that plays mp3 cds and burned cds and dvds as I do a lot of computer stuff.
Hey swimmer - we don't have a dvd player yet, and I want all those capabilities (incl. dvd burning) in the unit we do get (we gotta get one now because we just bought Buckaroo Banzai and Space Ghost C2C on dvd!) - what brand/model did you buy? Any recommendations?
Ooops sorry. I would NEVER ignore you if I knew you had asked a question. Never.
I bought a Samsung which is Sony's slutty sister. It works just like a Sony but it's cheaper.
I believe MOST dvd players new these days will play all that stuff. Samsung gives you a lot of bang for the buck. Like a cheap sister should. |
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 12:15:50
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got a samsung TV -two years and so far it's cool.
..but now that i said that..
r |
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guy_nolan
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
417 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 12:42:17
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My 28inch sharp TV still works like a charm after about 3 maybe four years (touch wood). I do avoid the really, really low end brands on general principal though. My 14 inch alba TV just switches itself off at random intervels, especially annonying if im playing a game or watching a really cool movie. Going back to the hi-fi thing, I was recently at my grandparents house in Dublin. My grandad is a big stereo enthusiast and treated me to a demonstration of his new Sony mind disc sytem, the funny thing is though that all he listens to is old Frank Sinatra and Elvis stuff! Those records are naturally scratchy and fairly low quality due to the time when they were made so it seems to me like he's completely defeating the purpose. Not that I'd say that too him though :)
Give 1000 monkey's 1000 typewriters and you're gonna be reading bullshit for the rest of your life. |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 12:43:00
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quote:
Originally posted by the swimmer
Wow. I envy you as i wish I could swoop in and replace my main stereo. I've already got the speakers, a floor standing pair of Infinity speakers from the 70's that rock me amadeus.
As for a new amp, questions...
Do you want surround sound? Are you doing this together with your TV?
This has been a long time coming I can tell you. I am going to enjoy myself in the hi-fi shop and take it real slooooow. Surround sound not needed as we have a TV and DVD surround sound in another room. This is for pure sonic listening pleasure only. Once the system is chosen and purchased my biggest decision will be which cd I spin first. I am inclining towards Trompe Le Monde at the moment. |
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 12:44:17
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wow! -mind disc! i knew it was coming! -a little chip you just stick behind your ear
or on your forehead!...
r |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 12:51:25
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quote:
Originally posted by blarg007
KEF speakers generally are highly regarded -i have a cheap pair and i have no complaints.
as to the FB sound it actually kicks ass.
i went with a budget CD player (hifi wise) -the cambridge DC300 is excellent for the money
-been well improved since i got one and they seem to know what they are doingas it has a very natural sound for the money.
-my take always being on a budget and yet wanting bang for the buck would be to go with
very shrewd budget equipment like said CD player (bottom line is does it produce an accurate
recreation af the original -technically nearly impossible)Linn hifi is good hi end.
and then splurge on as good a tube amp deal as you can find for the money -generally they
can be expensive but if you shop the web you will be surprised at what you can learn about
what is available and then go to a local dealer to see if he can dig it up for you at an equal
price or better. there is something to FB&C going back to wacky old analogue (at least as the
recorded source) AND there is something to the tube amps' warmth towards the natural that
one would think is a natural pairing.
smoothing out those modern bits and bytes into an original soundwave is the key to bliss
and theory has it that analog in it's better forms does a superior job to that end.
i've seen kit tube amps pre-assembled that were 4 or 500 U.S. dollars.
www.saturdayaudioexchange could be educational for budget high end shopping
as well as decibel.com -both in U.S. but it really doesn't matter -a lot of the good
stuff is made in britain.
r
Kef are good I agree. I think the Q5's would be in my price range. Not sure if the shop stocks these though. I would love a Linn cd player. I think the entry level Linn won a shoot out in the last issue of What Hi-fi magazine. Costs about £1,000 though! Don't think I can get that past the finance department!
Don't know anything about tube amps. Will have to do some more reading up. |
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guy_nolan
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
417 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 12:54:25
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Lol, but on a more serious note I really think mini-disc i1s the coolest fucking recording medium around. It's so damn versatile and for some strange reason it never really took off. How big is it in the US? You really have to struggle to find pre recorded albums over here. I mean Cd's are just the same but if your like me they only have a limited life span (I'm a fucker for letting them get scrathed up, I've had to replace teenager of the year twice so far) And who want's to walk around with a cd player in their pocket? I have to wear my biggest coat just to fit one in. :S
Give 1000 monkey's 1000 typewriters and you're gonna be reading bullshit for the rest of your life. |
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big_galoof
= Cult of Ray =
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 12:55:30
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just bought a Creek CD-43 MKII cd player to accompany my new NAD C740 receiver - a nice match. each piece was in the $500 to $700 range. new speakers to replace my old infiniti bookshelf models are next!
TBG |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 13:00:21
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quote:
Originally posted by guy_nolan
Why do people feel the need to spend so much money on Hi-fi equipment? I mean in the end it's not going to sound any better than it originally sounded in the studio. I think a lot of it is psychological. My ear can't distinguish the difference between a High end Bang and Olfsun I once had the chance to listen to and my own Aiwa midi system, (5 Md, 3 Cd). I realise this is just my personal opinion so don't bite my head off, but can the people with half a million dollar speakers really hear a different song to everyone else?
Give 1000 monkey's 1000 typewriters and you're gonna be reading bullshit for the rest of your life.
Oh come on!!!! I wouldn't necessarily rate B&O's as highly as some people do but I also wouldn't put Aiwa at the top of the hi-fi tree. I think there is a big difference in sound quality between real low end stuff and mid range but once you spend a certain amount I agree that the improvements are pretty much imperceptible. Not sure where the price bands lie though. The hi-fi is going to be sited in a largish space so I need plenty of power to fill the room. I could probably get away with spending say half the budget I've suggested but I start to run out of choices at that level of expenditure. Well that's the case at the shop where I'll be spending my money...maybe I've chosen the wrong shop! |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 13:04:30
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| Hey Swimmer I nearly wet myself when the high end photos came up! I want them, I want them, I want them. Wonder if I could buy them on 50 year credit or something. |
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 13:12:15
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quote:
Originally posted by big_galoof
just bought a Creek CD-43 MKII cd player to accompany my new NAD C740 receiver - a nice match. each piece was in the $500 to $700 range. new speakers to replace my old infiniti bookshelf models are next!
TBG
got a NAD pre-amp last year - rock solid for the money.
creek stuff apparantly rocks.
right now i actually am looking for a classic '70's era reciever
-just to get one that works and has that so-called seventies heyday
sound (hell you can get a super powerful marantz or sansui from that era for @100bucks or less and have the cool retro style thing goin' on
...i'm sure Frank Black would approve.
r |
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 13:15:09
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wanna talk silly hi fi -you can spend a 1000 bucks on...a power cord
...30 bucks for little rubber dots (well placed they will improve sound)
cone feet (actually makes sense)for vibration dispersion.
-1000 bucks is the so-called average for serious CD players.
r |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 13:16:34
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Is it humanly possible to get a good receiver + speaker setup (5.1) for around $500? I'm not a home theatre enthusiast like some people...I'm amazed by the quality of DVD through composite. I've been thinking of putting together a decent system, I don't care about HIGH quality, just best performance for the price. Eh?
 "I joined the Cult of Clops / If I were you, I'd sleep with one eye open." |
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 13:58:35
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apparantly when i was reading up on those things last year and looking around...yes
decency can be had for that range -read the electronics shootout mags
-or consumer reports.
r |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 14:06:50
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if money was no object:
i know, it's not a stereo. but hey..
mijn vriendin kan geen orgasme krijgen |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 14:14:49
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
if money was no object:
i know, it's not a stereo. but hey..
mijn vriendin kan geen orgasme krijgen
Holy Crap. That's almost as hot as the Mila Kunis picture.
Daddy likey. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 14:17:00
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they're actually "only" 20 grand or so.. it's a reissue of the James Dean porsche.
practicle? of course not. fucking cool as shit? absolutely..
get you laid?? i should hope so..
mijn vriendin kan geen orgasme krijgen |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 14:20:13
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I believe that's the first time I ever got a hard on just looking at a car.
Not really but I felt something stirring. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 14:36:13
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(sorry to interrupt this thread)
carry on..
mijn vriendin kan geen orgasme krijgen |
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