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sonic35pixies
- FB Fan -
Philippines
37 Posts |
 Posted - 10/11/2003 : 00:03:44
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I have posted this topic before in many MBs. So i'll also post it here in FR.
Anyway, in my own opinion. Theres a little possibility that time travel might be possible. But it will be very complicated to do given the problem on what kind of medium, means or instruments to use to time travel. Another user from DIE made a point in this subject Quantum Physics. Though i may never know the exact details about theory of time travel based on Quantum Physics.
I based my opinion on time travel on the subjects about Black Hole. Many scientist have claimed that time travel is possible by going inside the Black Hole. But still, the black hole theory is still hard to prove. The only fact that the scientist knows about it is that light cant escape the black hole. You'll think and start to question, how can a black hole absorb light?
A friend of mine made this good point about time travel:
quote:
Originally posted by illusions
well, essentially you can't build a machine...you're more about looking for a certain place in the universe, like a black hole as you said, or a wormhole. If you imagine space as a 2D plane, with heavy objects depressing the surface a bit (think of the simpsons episode etc), well a black hole is where an old star has compressed to a point of infinite density. This means that it has actually pierced this plane. Since this plane represents space-time, when you pierce it you also have an area that doesn't exist in time.
If you were to be pulled inside of a black hole, people on the outside would just see you linger on the event horizon because your image couldn't escape the gravity. And if you were inside, you could theoretically come out at another point in a parallel universe (where it was pierced). There are some other problems, like you could be stuck there for eternity or at least a few billion years. Because essentially, if you're in a place with no time at all (not infinite, just nothing), then you would probably just stop existing. :)
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Edited by - sonic35pixies on 10/11/2003 00:09:38 |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 01:23:27
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I would like to think that things like time travel are possible for humans. I personally think that we are on the up-and-up to discovering the exit to the ant farm, if you get my drift...
We are the only known species on the planet that knows about quanta, or the most basic, fundamental particles that makes up everything in the universe. It links us: man, woman, animal, plant, mineral, gas, liquid, etc. (And even then you have unknown elements like "dark matter.") When you get to this level of understanding, it starts calling into question metaphysical issues like that of God and morality. (Such as, just because we have the means to do something does that mean we should?) Should we pursue trying to travel through time, just because we are more than likely able to figure out a way to do so? I'm not trying to say that we as a race are overly smart, because we don't conform to any sort of equilibrium with our enviornment, as most animals do, and yet we have the mental faculties to know better. We overpopulate, we use resources up, and we move on, in a parasitic rut. But, in our difference from animals, we understand the basic, fundamental rules about our reality, which is something an animal could never do. We at least know that we're in the ant farm.
Time travel would be like a subsystem that, under ideal situations, the human race wouldn't even think about. There are other "subsystems," like genetics and nuclear energy that the human race has already trespassed on. Should we do these things? Like I said before, that becomes a question of morality.
Sorry if I didn't answer your question directly, sonic35pixies. It's just always been an intriguing subject for me, even if the prospect is possible. Just think of what would happen if humans actually did time travel? Have you heard of the theory of multiple realities? ('Cause I seriously doubt what happened in "Back to the Future" would be real if there were such thing as time travel.)
Bye.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 03:13:13
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I reckon it's an impossibility myself. If it were possible then surely you would bump into people from the future who have come back to visit. Would be cool though.
Who's the man that won't cop out when there's danger all about? |
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guy_nolan
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
417 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 05:12:09
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http://home.inreach.com/dov/tt.htm
Check out this link, funny stuff :)
Give 1000 monkey's 1000 typewriters and you're gonna be reading bullshit for the rest of your life. |
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interloper
= Cult of Ray =
440 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 06:16:45
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| It's no secret among evolutionary scientists that we are progressively losing our smallest digits on our hands and feet, and our heads are getting bigger, literally, over years and years of time. Remind you of anything? |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 09:43:46
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| If it was, I'd go back in time and Bitch-Slap Henry Ford. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 10:57:07
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I read about the discovery below several years ago. This article specifically deals with quantum computing, but the same can eventually apply to a whole spectrum of sciences (no pun intended ;)). But, one could speculate that time travel is indeed possible, as the speed of light can be slowed down, or even stopped. Actually, there is a large contingent of serious and respected scientists that believe it is more likely than not that time travel is possible. I was looking into this for a while - gotta dig around for the links I found...
From www.newscientist.com :
"Light stops dead"
Does the key to quantum computing lie in freezing a light beam?
A PULSE of light can be stopped dead, and then sent on its way again at the flick of a switch, say two American research teams. Their achievement takes us a step closer to quantum computers, because it provides a way to pluck quantum information from a beam of light without having to keep individual atoms in a fragile quantum state.
Light travels through empty space at 300,000 kilometres per second, or somewhat slower in a dense medium such as glass or water. In 1999, Lene Hau of Harvard University stunned physicists by slowing light to a few metres per second (New Scientist, 20 February 1999, p 10).
Now Hau has gone one step further and brought light to a complete standstill in a specially prepared gas of cold sodium atoms. At the same time, a team at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics has reported achieving similar results in a hot gas of rubidium atoms.
According to Ron Walsworth of the Harvard-Smithsonian team, similar techniques could play a key role in future super-fast quantum computers. Such machines will need to transfer quantum information from light beams to atoms for processing. Previous attempts to do this have used light to push individual atoms into an excited state. But these states are so delicate they are liable to be destroyed by background noise.
In the latest experiments, when the light stops, the information in its electromagnetic fields is stored in the arrangement of many gas atoms. "We have over 1012 atoms, which makes the state very robust," says David Phillips of the Harvard-Smithsonian team. This means the information can be retrieved with 100 per cent efficiency.
The key to stopping light is to nudge the gas atoms into a "dark state" in which their electrons are unable to jump up to higher energy levels. This means that the atoms cannot absorb light, so when the researchers shine a pulse of light into the gas it interacts with the "spin" of the gas nuclei instead. This is what slows the pulse down.
Both groups used a second carefully tuned laser beam, known as the coupling beam, to create a gas in a dark state. The light pulse's speed depends on the intensity of the coupling beam. The dimmer the beam, the slower the pulse travels, and switching off the coupling beam brings the light to a complete stop. The researchers found that they could set the trapped light pulse moving again by restoring the coupling beam.
The tricky part is switching off the coupling beam without destroying the dark state, says Mikhail Lukin of Harvard-Smithsonian, who led the theoretical work which inspired both experiments. But Hau says her team found that "you can slam it on and off."
Either way, "everybody thought it was pretty wild," says Seth Lloyd, a quantum computing engineer from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who attended the Physics of Quantum Electronics conference in Utah last week where Lukin presented his experimental results.
Engineers like Lloyd would prefer to be able to make their quantum computers out of a solid, rather than a gas. Phil Hemmer of the Air Force Research Laboratory at Hanscom in Massachusetts may have the answer. He has slowed light in a crystal of yttrium silicate, and is about to try stopping it completely using the new technique. "Now they've shown it's possible, the next step is to show it's practical," he says.
Their success isn't guaranteed. In a solid, some atoms won't settle into a dark state and could absorb the pulse. Hemmer plans to use a third laser beam to dump the uncooperative atoms out of the way into a different energy level.
Britney Spears Retypes Brains
edit: fixed hyperlink... |
Edited by - apl4eris on 10/11/2003 10:57:56 |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 11:24:17
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I think people make to big a deal about light and faster than light travel, myself. There are a lot of cool side effects and capabilities of photons, quantum theory and so forth, but when it comes right down to it, there is one earth that exists at this space-time location, and I really can't imagine going back in time and seeing myself. It's the ultimate dream though, go back and undo mistakes you have made, go forward and see all the amazing things that will have happened in a thousand years, or even go forward ten to twenty years. But there would have to be so MANY parallel universes, one for every instant in time from the dawn of time to the ultimate end. Not in terms of seconds, of microseconds, or femtoseconds, but so small a unit of time that we really don't even have a name for it nor an idea of it's magnitude. Or you could say that there is one world and one universe/dimension and that we can travel back linearly. But I really don't think that I have multiple copies of myself, one way or the other, which means that there is no way I could go back or forward and meet a past/future version of myself. Anyway, I've always said that anything the human mind is capable of conceiving is possible, at least in some capacity, except time travel. Seems impossible to me. But what do I know? Back to my original point, though, nobody knew what would happen when Chuck Yeager broke the sound barrier for the first time, but the answer was nothing. A sonic boom. He didn't travel time. He didn't go into the future. He just happened to be travelling 400 m/s. Why should we again hold the same superstitions about light? Perhaps because we are nowhere even remotely close to approaching the speed of light. Yet. I think we'll reach the speed of light someday, even surpass it.
Which brings me to time contraction and length contraction. When considered on it's own with relativistic formulas and research, time contraction seems pretty reasonable. You could even use things like muons as proof that as you approach the speed of light, time slows down. One certainly hopes so, as it would make for fast interplanetary travel. Except that all your friends and family and the people/world you knew would be gone/changed by the time you arrived. But you start applying those same formulas to things like length and suddenly things seem much less realistic and far more mathematical. Yes, time is not a physical entity, so such things seem plausible, but then you start applying relativistic properties to physically tangible things like length and distance, and suddenly it becomes clear that things don't add up. At least to me.
I'm not trying to be a know-it-all or spoil sport. A lot of people far more intelligent than myself believe such things are possible. I just don't think I can.
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2003 : 22:59:35
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Hey Mr Know-It-All, we're talking time-travel, not interplanetary travel..sheesh..not so smart from such a smart guy!
I have enough trouble believing other people exist sometimes...i guess anything is possible.
Tho with time-travel, it seems very unlikely. As pointed out, if it were possible, we never see any sign of it being applied...
And then there's the time-travel itself. By moving yourself to a different point in time, you'll have disrupted the chronological events of that 'past', and thus completely altered the 'future', so i don't think a 'conscious' type of time-travel can occur.
Even sending something like the neurological energies contained in the brain (ie, preprogram someone in the 'past') would still alter the 'future', and thus make itself impossible.
Everything is connected. I'm pretty sure this is a barrier we can't break...it just cancels itself out.
Don't it?
'What can we do to get the people who pretend to care, to pretend to do something?' - Bill Mahr
 Get Noisy! |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2003 : 01:11:15
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Yeah, I sort of switched gears in the second paragraph, because it's all about relativity really.
By the way, I forgot to mention, that even though I don't believe it, I like Interloper's theory of these 'aliens' being future 'evolved' humans travelling back in time to see the world they lost before it had been destoryed, polluted, or whatever. Granted, he never said anything about why we have these time travelling humans, but I'm slowly developing a screenplay.
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2003 : 08:20:38
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| apl, i'll say it again: there is too much knowing in your head. |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2003 : 13:22:27
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| If you like Interloper's idea, check out some Stephen Baxter books in the sci-fi section of your local bookstore or library. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2003 : 14:39:22
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I'm not familiar with Stephen Baxter, but I'll definitely check him out. Once I make a dent in the 6 book queue I have going on my desk, that is.
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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J Mascis
- FB Fan -
USA
205 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2003 : 15:04:47
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I think time travel is possible. If you're working a really shitty job and you keep looking at the clock all the time, eventually you'll become good a guessing at how many minutes have elapsed since you last looked at the clock. So if you keep relying on your own estimates, eventually you will be mistaken, as the actual time that has elapsed will be greater or less than what you assumed it would be. So if you guess that an hour has passed, go look at the clock and only 45 minutes has passed, you have gone back in time.
Also, time travel is possible through sleep. Say you go on a massive bender and don't sleep for a couple days. When it's time to hit the sack, you really hit the sack. I definitely consider going to bed, on say, October 12th and waking up on the 14th as time travel into the future.
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2003 : 14:42:32
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| haha |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 00:29:27
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| If there are time-travellers among us, right now, I would hope they wouldn't make themselves known. Heck, if they can travel through time, they probably have the technology to hide themselves pretty well. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 12:37:51
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There have always been people who are screw-ups, and no doubt one of them would have gotten their hands on a time-machine if such a thing were possible.
We'd know. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 13:16:11
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Some say that there have been visitors who over time have imparted technological/spiritual wisdom upon us at important junctures of human development, ala "2001" monoliths. What if it is always us, trying to come back and fix what we have wrought, in a feedback loop of screw-ups ad infintum?
That'll scare ya silly!
"Toynbee ideas in Kubrick's 2001 resurrect dead on planet Jupiter"
It's not my damn planet monkey boy! |
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2003 : 16:45:25
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"I put instant coffee in the microwave and went back in time".
-Steven Wright |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2003 : 21:46:51
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quote:
Originally posted by interloper
It's no secret among evolutionary scientists that we are progressively losing our smallest digits on our hands and feet, and our heads are getting bigger, literally, over years and years of time. Remind you of anything?
I don't think so. We're getting taller because of better nutrition, but some Neanderthals had greater cranal capacity than Homo sapiens
Birth puts a limit on the size of our heads. Or at least it use to. Now that doctors are now often unneccesarily doing c sections there might be less selection against larger heads, which then leads to more c sections.
Most Bull Dogs are delivered by c section because their heads are too big for the birth canal. Artificial selection (imposed by breeders) has lead to their disproportionately large heads. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2003 : 22:44:40
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| "Artificial selection" - interesting term Darwin.. |
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MangyKid
- FB Fan -
170 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2003 : 21:38:05
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| nope, i don't think it's possible. you can't see into the future can you? no, because it hasn't happened yet. Is it so foreign to think that time is simply there, and we have no control over it? the only reason we have any idea of time is because we have memories. Our memories are us. and I think we think there's more to the universe than there really is. It seems to be human nature to unnecessarily complicate things. if there is a dimension where time travel is possible, think about what it would be like to be in all times at once. or be able to go to any time. and biggest of all, how would you do it? I dare say it's a bit different than walking. I also say that even if time travel is possible, the universe doesn't go by years AD and BC, we'd have nothing relative to go by to find certain times. some things are simply linear, you can only understand it as it's coming to you, not all at once or in various parts. and in the end, what good will it do? |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2003 : 09:45:08
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Yeah, time is sort of a human construct when it comes down to it. A way of organizing and categorizing events. I suppose you could argue that movement takes time, or life lasts so long, and so forth, and even that without time, nothing could move since you can't have a velocity without time. But that's all specious since, of course, time is only our way of measuring all those things, much like meters are our way of measuring distance. People will still die however you count their life (seconds, years, hours), and distances will still exist even without the units to quantify them.
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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BrendanT
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
907 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 11:07:47
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Read Surfing Through Hyperspace by Carl Pickover and you may be able to come to your conclusions on time travel and fourth dimension.
Strummer-man
I had me a vision!
It's step, hip, step, pivot! Are you trying to piss-off the volcano?! |
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rockathon
- FB Fan -
241 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 11:49:27
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| what if we got every creature, great and small, to run East? |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 11:56:20
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You mean like when Superman made the world start turning the opposite direction, thereby causing it to go backwards in time?! Hey yeah, that might work! Oh yeah, that was a crock of shit, eh?
Not that I would know, because I haven't travelled through time in quite some time, but the Back to the Future movies also seemed patently absurd. If you did go back in time, and alter the past, then I don't think our relative present would be affected by it before the time traveller's very eyes. I just don't think it would work like that, if it were possible. |
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rockathon
- FB Fan -
241 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 11:57:35
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| lol |
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anazgnos
= Cult of Ray =
USA
383 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 12:05:38
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quote:
Originally posted by guy_nolan
http://home.inreach.com/dov/tt.htm
Check out this link, funny stuff :)
Give 1000 monkey's 1000 typewriters and you're gonna be reading bullshit for the rest of your life.
We've got nine years, that's all we've got...
 "the Cult of Eric: / where a man feels like a king / and a king feels like some kinda crazy super king" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 12:16:55
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At the risk of looking like a complete nincompoop wacky-brained zither-head, I actually astrally projected once. It scared the crap out of me, and is just another item among many that leads me to believe that we don't have it all figured out, and that many very strange things are possible, and happening whether we are aware of them or not. Until science pulls up the rear and comes up with the math or experiments to back it up, things like germs and gravity and evolution and "splitting" this so-called "atom", look like "magic" and "new age" trickery. Granted there will always be charlatans and lame-brains, but you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater...Don't mind me, I'm still trying to make gold with Draino, a Bunsen burner, and moldy bread, like I read about on some website somewhere. I'm sure it'll work eventually, but this Draino's not sitting too well on my stomach...
Ok, you can send in the men with the white jackets, now. "They're coming to take me away! Oh my! They're coming to take me away!"
Where are we going?
Planet ten!
When?
Real soon!!
-The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 12:19:05
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At the risk of looking like a complete nincompoop wacky-brained zither-head, what do you mean my astrally projected?
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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rockathon
- FB Fan -
241 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 12:19:49
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| did you go to planet x? |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 12:30:16
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Oh crap, now I'm gonna get it! ;) Nope, I didn't go to Planet X ;) - I made it as far as sitting up in bed.
I was meditating pretty heavily, lights out, and for some reason, trying to travel through space..I know it sounds crazy...for a little background, when I was about 15, I had been reading about lucid dreaming and had recently finished the Bhagavad-Gita and the Upanishads, and I think I was still reading the I Ching. So anyway, I was a wacky teenager. Well, as I was meditating, staring at the ceiling, my body felt like it was being electrocuted - and I thought I was dying it hurt so badly, I wanted to scream for help, but couldn't. I felt paralyzed, but through very intense effort, I sat up in bed to turn on the light. I kept reaching for the cord on my ceiling fan light above my bed, but my hand kept going through the cord. I got really confused, and turned around and saw myself lying in bed. I laid back down and waited until it passed, then ran downstairs to tell my Dad and ask him if he'd ever experienced anything like that. Oh, god, I'm such a freak. Did somebody put sodium pentathol in my cereal this morning?
Where are we going?
Planet ten!
When?
Real soon!!
-The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension |
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rockathon
- FB Fan -
241 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 12:35:08
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| sounds kind of shitty, you should have read the Kama Sutra instead |
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