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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
 Posted - 10/23/2003 : 01:40:54
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| That sucks. I mean, I've never heard anything by Elliot Smith (well, I've seen Good Will Hunting, so I'm sure I have, but that would be passive listening which I have no recollection of). He's compared to many of my favorite artists, like Pavement, Lou Barlow, Belle & Sebastian, so I'm sure that I will discover his songs in the future and be sad that he will no longer be providing the world with his music, so this is my blind, lauditive eulogy for this said-to-be great musician. Here's to rock 'n' roll. |
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jujube
- FB Fan -
Kiribati
29 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 02:09:51
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BETWEEN THE BARS
Drink up, baby, stay up all night
The things you could do, you won't but you might
The potential you'll be that you'll never see
The promises you'll only make
Drink up with me now and forget all about the pressure of days
Do what i say and i'll make you okay and drive them away
The images stuck in your head
People you've been before that you don't want around anymore
That push and shove and won't bend to your will
I'll keep them still
Drink up, baby, look at the stars, i'll kiss you again
Between the bars where i'm seeing you
There with your hands in the air waiting to finally be caught
Drink up one more time and i'll make you mine
Keep you apart deep in my heart separate from the rest
Where i like you the best
And keep the things you forgot
The people you've been before that you don't want around anymore
That push and shove and won't bend to your will
I'll keep them still
A QUESTION MARK
I got a question mark
I got a need to always take some shoot in the dark
I don't have to make pretend the picture i'm in is totally clear
You think that all things have a way they ought to appear
'cos you know you know you know you know
You know you know you know you know you know
I don't
I dream
Don't know what you mean
Panic called you out and took you in
Giving you an easy game and letting you win
You're giving back a little hatred now to the world
'cos it treated you bad
'cos you couldn't keep the great unknown from making you mad
'cos you know you know you know you know
You know you know you know you know you know
I don't
I dream
Don't know what you mean
Said your final word, but honesty and love could've kept us together
One day you'll see it's worth it after all
If you ever want to say you're sorry you can give me a call
WALTZ#2 XO
First the mic then a half cigarette
Singing cathy's clown
That's the man that she's married to now
That's the girl that he takes around town
She appears composed, so she is, i suppose
Who can really tell?
She shows no emotion at all
Stares into space like a dead china doll
I'm never gonna know you now, but i'm gonna love you anyhow
Now she's done and they're calling someone
Such a familiar name
I'm so glad that my memories remote
'cos i'm doing just fine hour to hour, note to note
Here it is the revenge to the tune
"you're no good,
You're no good you're no good you're no good"
Can't you tell that it's well understood
I'm never gonna know you now, but i'm gonna love you anyhow
I'm here today and expected to stay on and on and on
I'm tired
I'm tired
Looking out on the substitute scene
Still going strong
Xo, mom
It's ok, it's alright, nothing's wrong
Tell mr. man with impossible plans to just leave me alone
In the place where i make no mistakes
In the place where i have what it takes
I'm never gonna know you now, but i'm gonna love you anyhow
I'm never gonna know you now, but i'm gonna love you anyhow
I'm never gonna know you now, but i'm gonna love you anyhow
ST IDES HEAVEN
Everything is exactly right
When i walk around here drunk every night
With an open container from 7-11
In st. ides heaven
I've been out haunting the neighborhood
And everybody can see i'm no good
When i'm walking out between parked cars
With my head full of stars
High on amphetamines
The moon is a lightbulb breaking
It'll go around with anyone
But it won't come down for anyone
You think you know what brings me down
That i want those things you could never allow
You see me smiling you think it's a frown
Turned upside down
Cos everyone is a fucking pro
And they all got answers from trouble they've known
And they all got to say what you should and shouldn't do
Though they don't have a clue
High on amphetamines
The moon is a lightbulb breaking
It'll go around with anyone
But it won't come down for anyone
And i won't come down for anyone
I FIGURED YOU OUT
Seen you watching
Her every time she crosses the floor
So just go and talk to
Someone you really adore
I'm getting pretty used to being
The one you always ignore
When somebody wants you
I've seen it before
You're every kind of color
There ain't nothing that you won't claim
Your ambition and promise
And your addiction to fame
And everyone's got a dollar
Sign after their name
When somebody wants you
You treat 'em just the same
So go on and pick up
You don't care what poison you choose
Or what person you'll use
Should've been me, yeah
Shouldn't it be?
Crushing quiet
Crawls in through your window
From someone who wants you
But you'll never know
I'll pick up around you
Clear everything out
Leave you where i found you
I figured you out
(...) |
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jujube
- FB Fan -
Kiribati
29 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 02:12:46
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KING'S CROSSING
The big problem is the main attraction
Dominoes are falling in a chain reaction
The scraping subject ruled by fear told me
"whiskey life's better than beer"
The judge is on vinyl, decisions are final
And nobody gets a reprieve
And everyway this title if you hang around
You're going to get well
I can't prepare for death any more than i already have
All you can do now is watch the shelves
The game looks easy that's why it sells
Frustrated fireworks inside your head
Are going to stand and deliver talk instead
The method acting that pays my bills
Keeps the fat man pheening in beverly hills
I got a heavy metal mouth in hilltop city
And i get my check from the trash treasury
Cos i took my own insides out
It don't matter cos i had no sex life
All i want to do now is eject my ex wife
I've seen the movie and i know what happens
It's a christmas time
And the needles on the tree
A skinny santa is bringing something to me
His voice is overwhelming, but his speech is slurred
And i only understand every other word
"open your parachute and grab your gun
Falling down like an omen, my setting sun
Read the part and we turn out fine
It's a hell of a role if you can bring it alive"
But i don't care if i fuck up
I'm going on a date with a rich white lady
Ain't life great?
Give me one good reason not to do it
This is a place where time reverses
Dead men talk to all the pretty nurses
Instruments shine on a silver train
Don't let me be carried away
Don't let me be carried away
Don't let me be carried away
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 02:25:51
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LBF, you're absolutely right, hope you approve of the new signature. (I can't say how theologically sound it is, but it seems appropriate).
Seeing lyrics like "The things you could do, you won't but you might/The potential you'll be that you'll never see" brings to mind a parallel with the great Nick Drake to these ears:
"Fame is but a fruit tree
So very unsound.
It can never flourish
Till its stalk is in the ground.
So men of fame
Can never find a way
Till time has flown
Far from their dying day.
Forgotten while you're here
Remembered for a while
A much updated ruin
From a much outdated style.
Life is but a memory
Happened long ago.
Theatre full of sadness
For a long forgotten show.
Seems so easy
Just to let it go on by
Till you stop and wonder
Why you never wondered why.
Safe in the womb
Of an everlasting night
You find the darkness can
Give the brightest light.
Safe in your place deep in the earth
That's when they'll know what you were really worth.
Forgotten while you're here
Remembered for a while
A much updated ruin
From a much outdated style.
Fame is but a fruit tree
So very unsound.
It can never flourish
Till its stalk is in the ground.
So men of fame
Can never find a way
Till time has flown
Far from their dying day.
Fruit tree, fruit tree
No-one knows you but the rain and the air.
Don't you worry
They'll stand and stare when you're gone.
Fruit tree, fruit tree
Open your eyes to another year.
They'll all know
That you were here when you're gone"
Nick Drake - Fruit Tree
"In Heaven/Everything is fine/You got your good thing/And I've got mine"
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jujube
- FB Fan -
Kiribati
29 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 03:23:44
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Smith's tragic end will no doubt seal his legacy as a Drake-like poet of gloom; his song "Needle in the Hay" provided the soundtrack to a suicide attempt in Wes Anderson's film The Royal Tenenbaums, another film that drew attention to his music. Frank Black, whose Pixies left a sonic imprint on Heatmiser, credited the song with initiating an emotional breakthrough during his therapy sessions. "I had to go find some artificial thing to make me cry," Black told Rolling Stone this summer. "I can pop on 'Needle in the Hay,' just thirty seconds, and I'll be bawling like a baby."
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 03:42:06
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It really is a depressing thing with 'rock stars' and suicide. Firstly, suicide is a huge tragedy anyway - it must be terrible to get to the point where you truly believe everyone and everything has failed you. Also, the number of musicians who choose to end their life is always a worrying statistic. Elliot Smith, like Nick Drake, is sure to be remembered through his music, which is for the best, and I'm sure that he will gain greater prominence and respect than in his lifetime. Still, its awful that he thought it necessary.
"In Heaven/Everything is fine/You got your good thing/And I've got mine"
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blue cadet3
- FB Fan -
USA
146 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 08:34:40
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I still feel very depressed today. Reading the lyrics from the messages above show what a great poet we have lost. Those lyrics are so beautiful but, all of Elliott's lyrics are that way. Elliott had a way of writting that made you really believe that you knew him even if you have never met him. His lyrics are so personal and reveal so much. You can relate to the way he is feeling in most of his songs because he wrote about real life.
As for suicide, I think that suicide is a very sad thing. Yes, it is that persons choice but, the person that chooses suicide has choosen a permanet choice to a temporary event. A person that chooses suicide is very sad because they feel there is nothing to live for and there is no alternative. Elliott has had more success than the majority of artist and still could not find contentment. He was nominated for an Academy Award for crying out loud. Not very many artist get that honor.
As for the people who have said that they have not gotten into Elliott Smith yet or say that they don't want to, I believe you are missing out on a extrodinary singer/songwriter and I encourage you to give him a chance. I agree with who ever wrote this above "Elliott is as good as John Lennon and he is a better guitar player". Frank Black relates to Elliott's song "Needle in the Hay" and I'm sure he listens to more than just that song. I think that Frank's new album SMYT has a similar feel to Elliott Smith records. |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 09:49:13
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Suicide is sad but am I the only one who suspects that some (not necessarily Smith) kill themselves just to make a name for themselves? I know that sounds absurd but those who truly understand the power of massive egos will surely understand what I'm talking about.
why would a person kill themselves to gain fame you ask? I really believe that some people are so deranged that fame is all that matters to them even if they won't be around to experience it.
Obviously I have no idea what Smith's situation was so I'm in no way making a statement about him. Just a thought.
Semper ubi sub ubi. |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 10:35:19
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You're a cynical man, scutor, but I see where you're coming from. J Mascis used to say "I actually contemplate suicide every day: my record sales would certainly go up". While theres a certain amount of sarcasm there, I do think some people actually tend towards that kind of thinking, which, in all honesty is really stupid. Whatever's happening, its not that bad, and to kill yourself to create a legend is completely idiotic.
I also have no idea about Smith's situation, but I don't believe the man would do that for a second. Depression and addiction are illnesses, its important to remember that, but they can be cured which makes this so sad.
"In Heaven/Everything is fine/You got your good thing/And I've got mine"
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Danishboy
- FB Fan -
Denmark
175 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 10:44:32
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This sucks:( nothing more to say fuck dahm shit
Man of steel |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 10:51:18
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I don't mean to be nitpicky but addiction is not an illness. I've always hated that way of thinking. A favorite line of mine is from the movie Bounce (Yes I saw it, shut up). Ben Affleck says something like, "I'm an alcoholic, I have a disease." and another guy says, "yeah, you catch it from open bottles."
My Dad's an alcoholic but he's not friggin diseased. I stay away from alcohol becuae I know my family is susceptible to alcoholism.
Sorry, I know that wasn't the point you were making and that I'm just picking apart your words. I just get all riled up everytime I see that.
You're right though, nothing is ever that bad. When not depressed it's easy to see that but it becomes almost impossible to understand that when depressed, I know.
Semper ubi sub ubi. |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 11:25:21
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I hope you can accept that it's possible to be cured from alcoholism, drug dependency, etc, I think that was the point I was trying to make, in my clumsy way. This is a sensitive issue and I certainly don't mean to offend anyone.
Depression is a very strange thing, and I always find it slightly difficult to deal with: without having had personal experience I don't think its possible to.
"In Heaven/Everything is fine/You got your good thing/And I've got mine"
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 12:20:53
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| Maybe alcoholism or drug addiction is not an illness, but depression IS and judging from Mr. Smith's lyrics - perhaps he suffered from both. He was obviously a tortured guy and it's all very sad. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 12:24:44
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depression is mostly about chemical imbalances right?
Alcoholism and drug addiction can certainly alter body chemistry. |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 12:35:13
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All very true. I appreciate that this is a sensitive issue and the vocabulary is particular. I'm in no way offended nor am I trying to offend. Just some observations.
I think it's true that not having had experience with depression, one cannot truly speak effectively on the issue. Suffering from depression myself, I even forget how powerful it is when I've had a stretch of good times. Even now I'm not the best source of info or sympathy as I'm quite content. That said, I think the inexperienced struggle to comprehend the effects of depression.
Semper ubi sub ubi. |
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noexx
= Cult of Ray =
361 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 16:27:00
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i think some people make themselves be tortured and want to be tortured.....
some people think if they do music or some artform and they are 'tortured' it makes them and their work that much more honest and/or important.
if there's on thing in music i cannot stand it is the fragile-tortured musician.
i am glad frank isn't one of these teenagers..... |
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Kirk
= Cult of Ray =
USA
633 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 19:01:19
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The fragile-tortured musician.... I can see how a man can hate his job and rather do art, but when an artist hates what he's doing... then that's the lowest a person can go, I figure.
-Kirk |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 20:34:02
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| Well, addiction is only a disease in that it stems from depression. What causes a person to do heroin? They want to destroy themselves/displace how they feel. So their depression leads into addiction. |
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anazgnos
= Cult of Ray =
USA
383 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2003 : 22:25:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirk
The fragile-tortured musician.... I can see how a man can hate his job and rather do art, but when an artist hates what he's doing... then that's the lowest a person can go, I figure.
-Kirk
Funny, that's how I reacted to Kurt Cobain's suicide. After reading/hearing his 'note' at the time of his death, when I was 13 years old, I really just took it at face value, it's only after years does it occur to me that you know, that really does not read like a suicide note at all...all he talks about is boredom with his career and an inability to reconcile what he though was ethics and his success...does not sound like a man justifying death, but retirement...but, at the time, all I got out of it was boredom with art/music = death. It really was a formative event in my life and resulted in me ultimately concluding, in a very real sense, that music (and art) was absolutely the only worthwhile thing on this planet, which I basically still consider my basic premise to this day.
Sorry, not to get off topic but I hope it's germane to the celebrity suicide phenomenon in general...I really wasn't a fan, but I had always liked most of what I heard from ES, and I was really taken aback when I read the news. |
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gracie
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
573 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2003 : 07:19:06
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I agree that acholism and drug addiction are not diseases and people should take responsibility for the choices they make in life.
However, having some experience of depression, (not myself but members of my family) i think that it is an entirley different situation from drug addiction.
Although Elliot had been addicted to drugs and alcohol in the past as i understand it he was "clean" at the time of his suicide, although i don't suppose it makes any difference now.
I think it near on impossible to fathom why someone kills themself, especially the way that Elliot did with the level of sucess he had.
I myself cannot understand how anyone could ever be that desperate when they have people around that love them and are willing to help and support them through the hard times.
No matter how bad i felt i don't think i could put my family through that, although obviously i have no idea what Elliot was going through at the time.
To be honest i don't think i could ever understand what made this amazingly talented man plunge a knife into his own chest and wait for the life to drain from his body. Its just such a stupid waste, he clearly had so much more give- but then maybe not,maybe as a fan i just wanted more.
Anazgous, i understand what you mean about Kurt Cobain, i was also 13 at the time of his suicide and was devastated. However despite being upset at his death i did feel that it was a cowardly thing to do, considering he had a baby daughter. I don't have any children myself but i would like to think that wharever shit i was going through i would attempt to put it aside for the sake of my child. I find it difficult not to see suicide as a selfish act as well as a desperate one.
I just think its all very sad.
RIP Elliot Smith |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2003 : 07:44:55
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| Really know that Royal Tennenbaum scene is extra poignant. |
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gracie
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
573 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2003 : 08:17:20
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| Needle in the Hay is a really moving song but my favourite has to be Last Call from ARoman Candle, it always makes me cry, it will be a while before i can listen to that again. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2003 : 09:35:57
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i noticed in LA Weekly today that they forgot to take Elliot Smith's name off the All Tomorrow's Parties festival happening next weekend..
faux pas city..
i'm sure it was an honest mistake.. but it was weird seeing it cuz i was like, "wow, cool, i forgot Elliot Smith was on the bill.. " and then i was like, "oh, woops"..
indeed, my thought processes are highly intricate..
mijn vriendin kan geen orgasme krijgen |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2003 : 09:38:43
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Going up to Faux Pas City....
sorry couldn't resist. |
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Kirk
= Cult of Ray =
USA
633 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2003 : 13:06:11
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It's freaking amazing how much $$$ others are making off from Elliott's death.
Ebay: Elliott Smith PRETTY UGLY 7" LIMITED ED. LP (2 songs) .... highest bid: $76
T-shirts that say "RIP Elliott Smith", etc.. you know some f*cker is making these at home.
-Kirk |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2003 : 16:02:47
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That is sick, but it was just a matter of time, I think. Just wait till the albums are reissued, the latest recordings are released despite being uncompleted and possibly below par: I use Jeff Buckley as a case in point.
Depressing as it is, these days people will use any means necessary to sell records. Which is why I hate the record industry.
 "I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid"
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noexx
= Cult of Ray =
361 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2003 : 20:07:28
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did this guy really sell that many records?
im' not trying to sound mean, but i honestly haven't heard much from him ever or about him...... |
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therewererumours
* Dog in the Sand *
Ireland
1240 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2003 : 20:39:37
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Wow! Just heard of this now! One of my favorite lost poets. Figure of 8 was a soundtrack to one of my freinds and I holidays a couple of years back, so sad to listen to it again.
"like diamond back terrapin" |
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gracie
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
573 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2003 : 02:49:05
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Did any of you ever see Elliot Smith live? What was he like?
I had tickets to see him in London in 2001 but it was cancelled, that's another person to add to my wish i'd seen live list. |
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paintmeister
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2003 : 16:35:14
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I picked up XO to see what his music was like and I really enjoyed it. I'm sorry to hear that he killed himself though.
I am not a big fan of suicides. I have known too many people in my life that have committed suicide and as someone else put it, I see it as a very selfish act. Too consumed with themselves to see how their act will affect others.
I'll still enjoy listening to the CD that I have but I seriously doubt I will pick up any others, now. |
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blue cadet3
- FB Fan -
USA
146 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2003 : 09:34:40
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| gracie: I have seen Elliott Smith several times in concert. I've seen him with a band and I've seen him do a set by himself. I thought he was great . Elliott was very shy. He didn't do a lot of talking on stage but when he did talk it was pretty funny. He also would ask the crowd what they wanted to hear. He would say "old song or new" "happy or sad" and other things. It was cool because his concerts everyone would stand in silence and listen, there were no annoying people that are usually at concerts that tried to talk and yell over the music. Elliott had many fans and they all adored him. All of his songs were so solid. He is such a great singer/song writer. I feel lucky to have seen him in concert. I only wish I could see him tour his new album. I've heard some songs from it and it is awesome. |
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blue cadet3
- FB Fan -
USA
146 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2003 : 09:46:48
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quote:
Originally posted by paintmeister
I picked up XO to see what his music was like and I really enjoyed it. I'm sorry to hear that he killed himself though.
I am not a big fan of suicides. I have known too many people in my life that have committed suicide and as someone else put it, I see it as a very selfish act. Too consumed with themselves to see how their act will affect others.
I'll still enjoy listening to the CD that I have but I seriously doubt I will pick up any others, now.
I encourage you to pick up Either/Or and Figure Eight because they are so good and you would be doing yourself an injustice if you didn't hear that music.
As for suicides, I don't like the idea of suicides and I wish they didn't happen but, I don't think the person committing suicide is doing it to be selfish. People that committ suicide have problems and see it as there only way out. They think they are doing a favor to the people around them because if they don't like themselves they believe that no one else likes them. Suicide is one of the saddest things to me because the person that commits the suicide has a feeling of complete lonlieness before they die. A person has to be completly depressed in order to do enough harm to themselves to kill themselves. Especially the way Elliott died. He stuck a knife through his heart. He must have been feeling so unhappy. I really think you should reconsider and buy as much Elliott Smith as you can. |
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gracie
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
573 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 10:49:30
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I'm having a really hard time dealing with this.
How could you do that to yourself?, a fucking steak knife for christ sake.
He really was a genius, its such a waste. |
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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 12:24:35
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quote:
gracie
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
198 Posts
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 10:49:30
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I'm having a really hard time dealing with this.
How could you do that to yourself?, a fucking steak knife for christ sake.
He really was a genius, its such a waste.
I have a hard time dealing with the length and texture of my fingernails, so imagine my struggle with this horrid ordeal.
Friends, loved ones, and this place really helps a lot I think. It helps me anyhoo...
I think he is where he wants to be. Is so sad... 
Are you sure it was a "steak knife" I was figuring a really nice sharp blade like OJ simpson blade. A chef blade. It had to have been a pretty sharp knife. And he must have gone up under his ribs, it would be realy hard to stab oneself through one's breast plate... He must be really strong to kill himself in that fashion.
sorry for being graphic and morbid... just somebody that I used not know : (
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ain't it funny how the goes |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2003 : 14:20:14
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quote:
It helps me anyhoo...
Finally a body who knows the proper spelling of anyhoo.
Semper ubi sub ubi. |
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