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cvanepps
= Cult of Ray =
USA
442 Posts |
 Posted - 09/11/2003 : 12:33:51
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To noexx and COF: I don't have anything against the pedal steel guitar sound. Instruments alone don't define a song's genre. Hell, Dexy's "Come on Eileen" has violins all over the place and that song certainly isn't country. DITS featured very effectively-used pedal steel that I have no problem with. Other genre-defining factors include vocal style, lyrics, chords (which for FB have always been great), and other subtlties like style of play.
Basically, SMYT is the end result of an ongoing switch from rock to [unknown genre]. Well I'm sorry but I just don't like that genre. Despite how Frank Black feels these days, I still like distortion when I bar chord.
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man =-
http://christophervanepps.iuma.com |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2003 : 12:53:25
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Chris, don't remember what I posted and I'm too lazy to go back, but I don't remember talking about you specifically when I was talking about how pedal-steel gives something a country sound, although I was probably addressing you since you said you didn't like it, so it came out that way.
You are correct that they're on the move, and I'll go so far as to agree that I like the older stuff a bit better, but I like the new stuff as well. It's cool that you don't, no need for you to have to defend it or feel defensive, I just think it's interesting discussion fodder.
My biggest complaint about the inevitable conclusion of this direction is, as you allude to, that a lot of the creativity seems to be getting exchanged for simplicity. Direct lyrics, more standardized song structures and chord progressions, etc. I liked things like Hostess, Pong, etc. But I just appreciate the new stuff on a different level. After all, I suppose the man has paid his dues to advancing music and he should be allowed a straightforward album. Maybe the next will resume that original decriptive philosophy. It would be a bit out of place on this album, for sure. Although he still manages to do it with songs like Jaina Blues...
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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Bert Gil
- FB Fan -
3 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2003 : 13:29:52
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""My biggest complaint about the inevitable conclusion of this direction is, as you allude to, that a lot of the creativity seems to be getting exchanged for simplicity."""
If he starts doing duets with Faith Hill and his songs start appearing on the Top 40 Country charts then I think we might have something to worry about.
Otherwise, it's only a different direction and we all know where his true roots lie. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2003 : 13:42:07
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Heh... a duet with Faith Hill. I've been begging for that for years. :) Well, not really, but you can imagine.
BTW, to quote someone, there's a little icon, it looks like this:
Use it to reply to someone and quote their text. Much easier to do for you and to read as well. You can chop out whatever lines you want to.
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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d3niz3n
- FB Fan -
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2003 : 13:50:26
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simply a great album. regardless of the alt-country or whatever influences, the fact is that it is frank, and one can hear it. if this album were by anyone else (okay not anyone) it most likely would be boring and flat, another alt-country/rock thing. quite simply the control and losseness of the catholics and the way frank sings make it a great album.
the cat is a change bank that is supposed to bring good luck to financial/money matters. see them in various china towns (nyc, montreal, ottawa). |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2003 : 13:51:30
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| Wow, I just heard Dr. Feldman's organ part in Jaina blues. You have to listen really hard, but it's there. Is this the only song with organ? Also, in Horrible day, what is that instrument that is the only one that's not guitar, piano, bass, or drums? |
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2003 : 14:04:41
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It will surely go down over-all as a fave i think because it has that effect of cheering you
up and it has a lot of memorable verbiage AND there is a potent helping of classic Frank Black
period: Massif Central is when you look over at someone else whilst the bass is shaking the
foundations and say 'Frank Black rocks...'
R |
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noexx
= Cult of Ray =
361 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2003 : 14:06:50
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quote:
Originally posted by cvanepps
To noexx and COF: I don't have anything against the pedal steel guitar sound. Instruments alone don't define a song's genre. Hell, Dexy's "Come on Eileen" has violins all over the place and that song certainly isn't country. DITS featured very effectively-used pedal steel that I have no problem with. Other genre-defining factors include vocal style, lyrics, chords (which for FB have always been great), and other subtlties like style of play.
Basically, SMYT is the end result of an ongoing switch from rock to [unknown genre]. Well I'm sorry but I just don't like that genre. Despite how Frank Black feels these days, I still like distortion when I bar chord.
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man =-
http://christophervanepps.iuma.com
i think i agreed with you as far as i remember.....
though i like the new albums. i do wish the style of instrumentation weren't always the same on almost every song now-a-days. |
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cvanepps
= Cult of Ray =
USA
442 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2003 : 14:09:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
My biggest complaint about the inevitable conclusion of this direction is, as you allude to, that a lot of the creativity seems to be getting exchanged for simplicity. Direct lyrics, more standardized song structures and chord progressions, etc.
That's an interesting point, one I hadn't heard. But whoever's making that argument, I would disagree. I don't think creativity and simplicity are mutually exclusive.
I was reading the other thread on this point (too many threads about the same topic!) and a few folks were listing specific instruments that they "hate." I just could never understand that point of view. When played properly and in appropriate song context, any instrument can be wonderful! Overusage is the enemy of this creed, of course.
I dunno. There's quite a bit of material from the rock & roll ghost of Frank Black past to rely on so I'll be good. And I'll always go to live shows at the Cat's Cradle in Carrboro NC because they rock hard live!
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man =-
http://christophervanepps.iuma.com |
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RussT
- FB Fan -
30 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2003 : 14:37:52
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I have to say that I'm a bit disappointed with SMYT. I love DITS the best of all his albums, and I think Black Letter Days is a wonderful followup. I like Devil's Workshop too. I've listened to SMYT three times now and there isn't a song there that grabs me in the gut, like St. Francis Dam Disaster, or Southbound Bevy, for example.
I have to agree with those on the forum that think it's vastly overrated. Don't get me wrong, it's no Pistolero or Cult of Ray - thank god - but is isn't what I was expecting, I guess.
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2003 : 15:44:02
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quote:
Originally posted by RussT
I have to say that I'm a bit disappointed with SMYT. I love DITS the best of all his albums, and I think Black Letter Days is a wonderful followup. I like Devil's Workshop too. I've listened to SMYT three times now and there isn't a song there that grabs me in the gut, like St. Francis Dam Disaster, or Southbound Bevy, for example.
I have to agree with those on the forum that think it's vastly overrated. Don't get me wrong, it's no Pistolero or Cult of Ray - thank god - but is isn't what I was expecting, I guess.
Thanks for your opinions.
The fact you think Pistolero is as suck ass as COR proves that I don't need to listen to your opinion.
Clean the crap out of yer ears and give it another go. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2003 : 16:00:17
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Translation: Pistolero and COR are good records, but they take more time. I suggest giving them another listen. :)
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2003 : 18:36:32
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| Yeah, Cult Of Ray stuck to me like a sack of potatos on first listen, but Pistolero took a good bit of time and now it's one of my favorites. |
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matty
- FB Fan -
Canada
8 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2003 : 21:48:56
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quote:
Originally posted by the swimmer
Lay it on us, newbies....
just heard the new cd ,great from start to finish |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2003 : 22:19:22
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| Of course, COR is my favorite album by a landslide. And i bet the folks who feel this way won't be as crazy about the new album, since they are different elements basically. |
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matty
- FB Fan -
Canada
8 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2003 : 09:32:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Noisy
Of course, COR is my favorite album by a landslide. And i bet the folks who feel this way won't be as crazy about the new album, since they are different elements basically.
from
you ain't me COR
to horrible day SMYT
i like all the cds |
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GavinCleaver
- FB Fan -
16 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2003 : 17:24:54
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I'm in a bad mood, so this might come over bad.
Basically, it's not his best by a very long way. It doesn't have the musical subtleties of BLD or DW, the brilliant hook-writing of DITS, or the fantastic straight-out rock of the first two catholics albums. I just think it's a bit boring. Like repeating "Valentine And Garuda" thirteen times. When he does decide to "rock out", you can tell he's bloody good at it. I just wish he wouldn't submit himself to all this clichéd slide guitar balls.
And as for the people taking days to compile your "official reviews", please realise no-one gives a Kim Deal about your official review.
For everyone in the UK, IMO, the best album out this year so far is The Decline Of British Sea Power, by British Sea Power. Buy it. They're a bit like the Pixies, come to think of it. You'll like it. |
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paintmeister
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2003 : 19:02:45
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quote:
Originally posted by d3niz3n
simply a great album. regardless of the alt-country or whatever influences, the fact is that it is frank, and one can hear it.
I like how you summed it up. I totally agree.
I wasn't too sure SMYT was all that great at first.....well, as usual, it has finally sunk in. I'm not a musician but there is something about Frank's songs that are special. Maybe its the emotion he seems to bring out when he sings or the melodies or maybe its all of it put together. It/he simply amazes me. |
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2003 : 07:05:39
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| Ive only listened to it a few times and my immediate reaction is its good but not great I certainly prefer BLD. The lyrics bother me, they seem really cringe worthy on some tracks. However more listening is required. |
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miguel
- FB Fan -
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2003 : 16:13:00
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| I just wish he'd slow down with the albums. Take more time on the songs, it makes me wonder. |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 19:24:39
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quote:
Originally posted by GavinCleaver
And as for the people taking days to compile your "official reviews", please realise no-one gives a Kim Deal about your official review.
And, please realize no one gives a holy flying fuck about your opinion either, asshole. It's a forum, and people are SUPPOSED to post their opinions. If you don't want to read it, skip the fuck over it.
"...you can see here by my grin I don't give a fuck..." |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 19:47:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Noisy
Of course, COR is my favorite album by a landslide. And i bet the folks who feel this way won't be as crazy about the new album, since they are different elements basically.
Hey Dave,
Not that I would ever try to dissuade someone from their own opinion, but just out of curiosity, is there a particular reason you like COR the best out of Frank Black's albums? There are a few songs off of that album that I like. One of them is "Men In Black." But, for different reasons, every FB album means something different to different people. I will always particuarly treasure the first two FB albums, self-titled and TOTY, because they happened at a particular time of my life, and I will always equate the songs from them with my own personal memories. You are one of the few people who like COR the best. Do you like COR the best because it fits into a time of your life, or just for the fuck of it? (Not trying to be nosy. Hey, maybe I can be Chris Nosy.  )
BTW, there's not been any FB or FB&TC album that I didn't at the very least like some songs off of, and I already love SMYT. I really don't think I could pick a favorite album...
"...you can see here by my grin I don't give a fuck..." |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 21:16:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Malax
Ive only listened to it a few times and my immediate reaction is its good but not great I certainly prefer BLD. The lyrics bother me, they seem really cringe worthy on some tracks. However more listening is required.
BLD certainly had some "cringe-worthy" lyrics, such as "your favorite perfume/well I gave you a tub...now you're stepping out/with your rub-a-dub-dub..." A great album to be sure, but I'm not sure it's any more lyrically astute than SMYT, in fact in my opinion SMYT is in some places a little better lyrically. (Although I will always hold a special place for BLD.) I'm not trying to dispute your opinion, by any means, just pointing out my own observation.
"...you can see here by my grin I don't give a fuck..." |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 21:28:51
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There are some songs off of BLD with pretty bad lyrics, but most of the songs are great. I heard someone complaining a while back about "Everything is New, When the sky is Blue' lyrics, which to me is a little bewildering.
Buy the way, if you think COR is crap then keep listening to it, one day it will reach you.
Who's the man that won't cop out when there's danger all about? |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 22:52:52
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Heya Chris - CoR is really wacked out, the moment i heard the Marsist, i was blown away..
Agree-ably, it's not his 'best' album, but i enjoy the songs off it more than any other.. I'd heard other stuff years ago, but this one caught me, and pulled me into this Cult of Frank. =)
"We've got Dean to thank / For this Cult of Frank" |
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noexx
= Cult of Ray =
361 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2003 : 22:57:21
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quote:
Originally posted by glacial906
Hey Dave,
Not that I would ever try to dissuade someone from their own opinion, but just out of curiosity, is there a particular reason you like COR the best out of Frank Black's albums? There are a few songs off of that album that I like. One of them is "Men In Black." But, for different reasons, every FB album means something different to different people. I will always particuarly treasure the first two FB albums, self-titled and TOTY, because they happened at a particular time of my life, and I will always equate the songs from them with my own personal memories. You are one of the few people who like COR the best. Do you like COR the best because it fits into a time of your life, or just for the fuck of it? (Not trying to be nosy. Hey, maybe I can be Chris Nosy. )
BTW, there's not been any FB or FB&TC album that I didn't at the very least like some songs off of, and I already love SMYT. I really don't think I could pick a favorite album...
"...you can see here by my grin I don't give a fuck..."
[/quote]
i like the cult of ray (the album) a lot. but i don't really like men in black...maybe it's because i heard it a lot during the TOTY release year and it didn't flow with that album that much. i like allt he other songs though. |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2003 : 06:58:43
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COR has to be one of my faves as well..... don't know why because for so long I thought that it was cack... very bizarre but pretty much all of the songs are great. This was the first FB album I heard, that might have something to do with it however for at least a year I didn't get past I don't wanna hurt you.
Who's the man that won't cop out when there's danger all about? |
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pixie punk
> Teenager of the Year <
2923 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2003 : 08:46:02
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| Well finally the lazy sod's at my local Borders pulled it out of storage down here in the Isla De Encanta(Puerto Rico).I find it to be an amazing album.Opener Nadine made me feel I was listening to some Cult of Ray outake,the sound at first made me thought so! My personal faves are Massif Centrale what a beautiful chorus(your love behavior...)totally blew me away!!! Jaina Blues,Manitoba,When will happiness find me again and My favorite kiss stand out for me.The lead guitar work is amazing just as passionate as Lyle Workman's stuff on past albums.The trumpet adds very nice touches and of course the lap steel guitar continues the tradition of the other recent releases.Frank and C's have done it again!!! Thanks for the great music guys!!!!!!!!!! |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2003 : 00:46:11
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It is a great album.... Ive also discovered the first Weezer album this week which is also class. What's Weezers more recent album like?
Who's the man that won't cop out when there's danger all about? |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2003 : 00:48:19
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Senor Stu, skip Weezer's last two records and head for the follow up to the Blue Album, called "Pinkerton". It's lovely. I still say the debut is the most "cracking", but Pinkerton is very good also.
He's the Cult of Frank/Fear the boy ass-pirate |
Edited by - speedy_m on 09/16/2003 00:48:49 |
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Scarla O
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2003 : 01:24:42
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Ok, I know I'm abit slow off the mark on this one, but I've just heard SMYT for the first time last night and what an album it is! I was preparing myself for a disappointment but was clearly wasting my time.
My favourites so far are: 'Horrible Day', 'Goodbye Lorraine', 'This Old Heartache'...but it's hard to pick out favourites because they're all of a high quality.
Least favourite? Maybe 'New House Of The Pope' or 'When Will Happiness Find Me Again' but don't get me wrong - even these are great songs. |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2003 : 09:54:44
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dudes! i'm a newbie, to this forum thing, although a seasoned pro on usenet... nevermind!  I've got hooked (and I mean in the last 30 mins) on Coastline!! Can't stop listening to it! Fantastic song!!!! Before that it was Massif Centrale probably. But this song is really sticking out for me at the moment. Can't wait to see Frank again, 1st October!!!!!!!! |
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harringk
- FB Fan -
USA
202 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2003 : 11:58:53
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I'm a die hard FB fan, and have listened to SMYT about 3 or 4 times now and at this point I put it on the same level as BLD and DW...a step below everything that came before it.
I long for the sound of FB&TC and Pistolero...after listening to BLD and DW exclusively since they came out, I went back and listened to the FB&TC and Pistolero for the first time in a while and was struck by how dramatically different his new stuff really is.
I'm not saying the new stuff is worse...just different, and a bit off kilter from my normal musical tastes.
That said SMYT is still a wonderful album and probably better than 99% of the other crap that has outsold it by 1000% during the last couple weeks.
I really do wish Frank would take a little more time to develop the songs further now. My personal wet dream would be a studio album with new deeper versions of his favs that he previously only released on two-track.
A perfect example is Coastline...I don't think I've ever heard a more beautifully sad song. It is a crime that it lasts less than two minutes. It could use another verse...some more harmonica...to make it a 3-4 minute masterpiece.
Just my opinion..... |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2003 : 12:05:15
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Coastline doesn't really strike me the way it seems to alot of people. Not a bad song, just not one of the ones I particuarly like.
"...you can see here by my grin I don't give a fuck..." |
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Czar
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
321 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2003 : 19:25:44
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My top 3 so far :
Nadine (love the buildup)
Massif Central(e) (The sign of your love behavior.... hmmmm)
Manitoba
Do we know about dates in Canada yet? |
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