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MIRV
- FB Fan -
178 Posts |
 Posted - 10/20/2002 : 02:30:31
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this new material of frank's isn't up to code. it's like it's thrown together...no one had chance to actually put forth the best effort.
in my opinion, why release 30+ songs at one time? why not simply release one album that has been put together strongly?
while i like some of the new stuff i've heard, a lot of it is very sub-par. where is the musicianship that i've heard in the last few records?...well and truly missing.
anyways, not to shit on frank, but lets get serious. instead of putting out ideas, lets craft a few songs and give everybody what they want. lets not give people a shell of what could be.
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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 03:06:42
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i could not disagree more about the quality of these songs... I love all the new songs... as I learn to play more and more of them I like them even more, but this has always been the case...
I think ALL the new stuff is beautiful and creative and well put together... even Whispering Weeds and 1826... 1826 is probably my least favorite tune...
I am sorry, but the more songs FB writes, records and puts out the happier I am...
I would be pissed off to know there was a whole album of material out there that I couldn't listen to because it wasn't up to some imaginary level of "par"
no offense, but the more the better to me.
"Snooch to the Nooch" |
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zanni67
= Bio Elf =
643 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 06:02:34
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I agree with LBF's remarks. BLD and DW are solid, beautiful works of musical art by the Man. Plain and simple: Frank Black and the Catholics ROCK.
-Zan
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Visiting Sasquatch
= Cult of Ray =
USA
451 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 06:18:23
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| Let it be known, that I am not one of MIRV's constituents, and he does not speak for me. |
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mdisanto
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1140 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 08:19:39
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i can see how MIRV would think that. i mean, in a lot of ways releasing 30+ songs at once that are all good defies logic. but then we remember that we are talking about frank, and he can pull it off, and he did.
-miked |
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steveplymouthuk
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
639 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 09:26:22
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I'd say to keep listening to the new albums, as they do grow on you.
30+ songs is a lot to take in at once, and it took me a while to see the merits of all of them, but now I like them all, whereas on the first few listens, i might have been tempted to skip 1 or 2. shame on me. |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 09:35:25
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If 30+ songs is too much to take in at once, do what i did (even though it might be too late unless he realeases two more albums at once). I bought Devil's Workshop, then two weeks later i bought BLD. Took me longer to get into BLD but now i think both albums are fabulous. If you aren't into all +30 songs yet, give it time. You can't instantly be taken away buy two Frank Black albums. Which I think is good. An album seems to have more steam when it takes longer to understand and get in to. It's like a movie that is confusing the first time, but the more and more you see it, the more you recognize things you missed the first time around. Then eventually you are blown away by it.
Derek |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 10:13:12
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| Also, keep in mind, if Frank chose 15 of the 30 to release, you know he wouldn't release your favorites. Everyone has different opinions on what songs they like best, including Frank. Your favorite track very well might have been left off of Frank's 15 track album. |
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AdrianDenning
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 11:10:24
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| I can understand why he chose to release two albums, or at least I think I can. There is a split, certain Frank fans don't love 'Black Letter Days' which is the album that clearly had more time and thought put into it, and contains a bunch of great songs. 'Devils Workshop' is a far more 'obvious' Frank Black album, almost released as if to counteract the disappointment some fans will feel at the lack of 'rocking' on 'Black Letter Days'. Frank once said The Pixies would release two albums a year. It never happened of course, but Frank is incredibly hard-working and prolific, it wouldn't have been a problem for him, bar the disharmony within The Pixies at that time. |
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 14:00:24
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| BLD & DW are my favorite FB albums yet....so I most definitely disagree. Thrown together? I really really don't hear that at all. |
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MIRV
- FB Fan -
178 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 15:32:40
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it just don't hear the other members of the band putting in much at all. it's basically just frank and his guitar with drums.
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 16:16:51
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quote:
it just don't hear the other members of the band putting in much at all. it's basically just frank and his guitar with drums.
Actually, I hear quite a bit from the other members----lotta steel pedal which sounds amazing, great percusion easily noted in a track like Whispering Weeds, great lead-guitar work throughout (San Antonio TX., the lead in Whiskey in Your Shoes, the organ and lead breakdown at the end of 21 Reasons, I could go on and on.........
Also hear a lot of electric piano/organ stuff going on.......manic backing vocals on Black Rider....I think the band members contribute quite a bit to the mix personally. |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2002 : 17:26:58
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The keys on Jet Black River are sweet. Love that effect.
Derek |
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Ten Percenter
- FB Enquirer -
United Kingdom
1733 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2002 : 02:03:29
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| Sorry MIRV, I love them both. Is it just me though, or is the bass quite low in the mix? It could be my speakers! |
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bazza
* Dog in the Sand *
Ireland
1439 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2002 : 04:51:39
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i think both albums are great. they way i see it is this: releasing 30+ songs is franks way of saying thanks to us for bring his loyal fans. and thank you too sir.
also - with all the opinions about some people liking some songs and hating others - doesnt that give more flexibility? i think so. i could say (which i think i have) that maybe BLD is a few songs too long - but you cant argue that he is recording his best material at the moment. however - this is my opinion and this is what this page is all about.
cheers
stone to the bone
:o) |
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theonecontender
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
565 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2002 : 12:30:33
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These are great songs.. I think most people, including MIRV, can agree to this fact. They are especially great for a middle aged man with a kick ass voice and a battered acoustic guitar.
BUT - just because they are great "Frank by himself in the basement with a bottle o beer jamming" songs, it doesn't mean that they make great Frank Black and the Catholics songs. That is the point. He should have saved the 'beautiful' acoustic songs for an album called "an evening with Charles", or something like that. When the band tries to add to songs that are pretty much complete as acoustic songs, the sound kind of falls apart. This is especially the case on BLD with the excessive use of the pedal steel. Enough twangy single notes already. Just think about the completeness of Dog in the Sand. Many of the new songs are in the same vein, but fall short of the mark. Why? The band was not complementing each other as they once did. Sure, there may be a cool little lick or solo or whatever, but on the whole, the compositions feel almost rushed and not well thought out. I'm sure many of the catholics didn't even hear many of the song before entering the studio.
If Frank had repeated what he did prior to recording DITS - taking the band on tour to rehearse a whole ton before recording - I guarantee that the albums would have been far superior. And there probably would have been many cut songs as well, realizing that there is no room for the band on several occasions.
That said, I want to say that I really enjoyed the albums at first - being somewhat blinded by anticipation. Now it's fading. There are, however, exceptions to these complaints.. Several.. But these are just my opinions on the albums as a whole. DW is not as susceptible as BLD by far. Note that DW has most of the 'older songs' - back when Frank wrote with the entire 'team' in mind.
1c |
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Aarjan Snoek
- FB Fan -
South Africa
59 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2002 : 02:42:31
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hey big MIRV are u being devil's advocate concerning devil's workshop?
"sumus semper in excreta, sed actum varians" |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2002 : 08:57:24
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| Yeah, we all know Frank doesn't have the most patience when it comes to making albums, he loves to just bang 'em out. This occassionally makes albums a little less great than they could have been. The albums where Frank undoubtedly seems to have put the most work in are usually the best (Teenager, Dog in the Sand), but there are many fans out there who love the quickie bang-it-out production of his less produced efforts (Pistolero, which he originally planned to have fuller production, and on the newer albums, where he mentioned he wanted some bowie like horns). Of course the songs never sound underwritten, which makes for great albums even if the production isn't as lavish as it could have been. Also, where Frank is always coming out with new stuff, you can usually count on him to make due on promises (for instance, he did on Dog in the Sand what he said he wanted to do on Pistolero, and who knows, maybe his next album will feature a horn section). |
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Chip Away Boy
= Cult of Ray =
914 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2002 : 12:00:09
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| i for one love the live banged out stuff, it puts all those other bands that use computers to perfect their records to shame.... |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 17:48:54
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MIRV, I understand what you are saying and at first I also had the same kind of thoughts as you. It always takes me a bit of time to get into a Frank Black album as its not instantly listening friendly, which in my opinion is the first sign of a quality album. I reckon thats why alot of critics gave the two albums shitty reviews, they haven't got the time to spend on really listening to an album (and the fact that they are facists, but I won't go into that one).
But on the subject of releasing 1 album of all of the best songs, what would be the point of that? You have all of the great songs and you have more. I'd rather have more songs because then at least you can get into the songs that you are not instantly attracted to at a later date. There are some Frank songs that have taken me maybe a year or two to fully appreciate but its cool when you finally get into them, and maybe that will happen with you on the new albums. Take for instance Dance War and most of Cult of Ray... I thought that was a cack song and a pretty shitty album at first but now in my opinion its as good as DITS, it just took a little longer to sink in.
There are a few songs (mainly off of BLD, I will run after you, and a couple of others) which at the moment I would safely say that I skip through, but in the future I'm sure I'll be raving on about how good they are.
At least its better than having to wait for 3-4 years and then recieving a shitty album... like in 96 on my birthday when The Cure released Wild Mood Swings (a shit effort after a 4 years absence) and my long term bird dumped me.... it was like being kicked up th arse by my bird, and in the bollocks by Robert Smith, without any of them saying 'Happy 20th.' |
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