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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
 Posted - 10/15/2002 : 18:21:27
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so, i'm curious if someone could explain a little further exactly how Frank and the band do this..
i understand the concept of only two tracks.. and recording live.. but i'm wondering if someone (Harris?) could describe more specifically how it actually goes down. does 2 track also mean there are only two microphones? or are there more mic's channeled into the two tracks? sorry if this sounds dumb, but i'm just curious..
that would be awesome if someone on the inside could post a picture of the Frank Black and the catholic's mobile recording studio.
thanks in advance,
Floop |
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Thomas
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1615 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2002 : 18:58:22
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Note to Dave:
Studio section of the upcoming website. BEG FOR PHOTOS OF BAND IN THE, get this, STUDIO!!!
"It's the Nexus of the Crisis"
BÖCswu |
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theonecontender
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
565 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2002 : 20:19:07
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Floop, there can be plenty of mic's going into one track/input. If were to hazard a guess I'd say the entire band on one track (after it's been pre-mixed going into the input) and vocals on the second track. Reason: vocals tend to vary more (volume-wise) than any other sound. Chorus and verses often have a very different volume level due to the diverse vocal styles of mister Black. Therefore, pre-mix the entire band onto one track (stereo etc..), record vocals on the second one and then you can mix the vocals perfectly with the rest of the band.
Just a guess.
1c |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2002 : 22:01:06
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Just to clarify, a track is mono, so if they're recording to two-track, it's two mono tracks, and we'd loose any stereo imaging if it were instruments on one and vox on the other. We've got stereo sound on the recordings, so it can't be like this.
I'd wager a guess that they get the room set up with all the mics (on guitar/bass amps, drums, vox, maybe some general overheads for 'air'), plug them into the mixers, add any effects and compression (which smooths out the vox), and do a few test runs until it's sounding how they want it. Then they just do it.
Once it's set up properly, they can prolly record a ton of tunes in a row..super efficient. If they have their shit together, they could record the last two albums in a matter of hours..hehe..
It's not easy setting up a room like that, but it's entirely possible....
Thomas - i'd love to have pics from the studio..do they always record in the same place? Where is that place?
- Dave |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2002 : 22:27:47
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| They probably have everyone in different rooms, or at least drums in a different room than the other guitars, and FB in another room with his acoustic and vocal mic. But yeah, I'd definitely love to see it. The setup most likely consists of all the instruments mic'd and plugged into the mixer, and from there they are EQ'd and panned however needed (left, right, center) to fit the stereo image. A lot of times it seems they just had one guitar hard left ('industry' term for completely left) and one hard right...check out the first FB&TC for this. Drums are just about always stereo...probably have 2 overheads and each drum mic'd and panned properly to mimic aurally how the drums are visually (snare left, floor tom right, whatever..). |
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mdisanto
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1140 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2002 : 03:25:09
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well i was under the impression that the mixing was done live as well. so once its on tape its never touched again. which means the mix is done before and if frank gets too loud in the chorus, hes too loud in the chorus. they probably have some comrpression to help with that, but thats just the way i understand "recorded and mixed live to 2 track" to mean.
-miked |
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carsonwerner
= Cult of Ray =
USA
254 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2002 : 18:27:43
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| Yeah the multiple rooms is certainly plausible, cuts down on the sound bleeding to all the mic's, but the way he describes it in the rehearsal space and all just makes me think they are all in one room. They set up the mic's mix for a good sound and record. Later they go back and fix what they can/master it. |
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madadam
- FB Fan -
6 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2002 : 18:32:43
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What i want to know is, where do they record??
sure, their equipment is mobile, but you have to set it up somewhere. do they set up in the club where they have a gig that night, say? or rent some space in a real studio somewhere for a few days? Or is the mobile recording studio actually a big bus and they record INSIDE it? that would be crazy, the drumset and all, i don't think they do that.
so i noticed the little white minivanish cabby thing outside the shows, is THAT the mobile recording studio? if so, it's so cute.
it really works well - the albums sound great, and the live shows never give you that disappointing, "oh.. that doesn't sound like the song i love" feeling. |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2002 : 18:46:09
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that's funny because when i heard mobile recording studio i had this picture in my head of one of those old trailer homes. You know the one's that look like a hunk of stainless steel, sorta round, maybe with some ugly green curtains on them. probably from the 70's. Anyways, i pictured frank and the band driving around in one while they record. obviously i don't seriously think this but it would be funny.
Derek |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2002 : 09:37:19
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| Definately in a studio..the rest is a blur. |
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Atheist4Catholics
= Cult of Ray =
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2002 : 11:15:52
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I'm a recording engineer, so let me field this one . . .
Live to 2 track USED to mean using both tracks as a multi track and then mixing that to a (usually mono) master. This is what The Beatles did on their first recordings (funny story, when record companies went to rerelease some of The Beatles hits which were orinially mono, they took the two track tapes and said "oh, stereo!" and that's why the vocals are on one side and the band on the other).
These days, however, Live to 2 track means "Live to Stereo" the two tracks being the left track and the right track. It's called Live to 2 track because the tape you record to is called a "two track tape" or a "two track master", sort of a throw back to its original use as a multi track. Essentially, this means that FB&C go to the studio and try to isolate themselves from each other as best they can. The engineer has to set up all of the effects and work out all of the mix moves ahead of time. Then when they roll, the whole thing is recorded live and the mix is done live as well. I've done a few live to 2 sessions and let me tell you, you should all be awe of how amazing Frank's records sound, especially Dog in the Sand. It's very hard to not screw up, especially when doing complex arrangements with a lot of musicians. If you have any other recording questions, I'd be glad to try and answer them. I'm glad this topic was started because it seems every review or interview I read gets it wrong. It's not lo-fi and it doesn't always save you time. |
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BrendanT
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
907 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2002 : 12:27:37
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I am assuming that this would be an expensive and time consuming venture unless you have the experience and talented musicians that Frank has. Is every instrument live on every recorded track? What I mean is, if someone makes a mistake throughout a recording, is the whole track scrapped?
Strummer-man
I had me a vision!
I bid a good-day to you sir! |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2002 : 14:40:06
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Yep, scrapola.
Lot's of scrapola's...this has been brought up several times, but i'd love to hear the bloopers. =)
Personally, i'd rather get a standard 'studio' recording... I like that there's the two elements - what the band can do if they try to 'perfect' something, and what they sound like live..
I absolutely hate bands that sound (and play) exactly like the album when they're on stage.
This has a similar feeling, but i'd much rather Frank's approach than the typical.
That's how i feel.. =) |
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johndietzel
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
464 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2002 : 22:59:29
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I know what you're saying Dave N. I think the whole paradigm is changed or, rather, corrected with the Catholics' stuff. I mean, until comparitively very recently, the distinction between a studio or live show was non-existent. I mean, recording music for distribution isn't even 100 years old.
So I think the idea is that what they record is just their best attempt to "capture" the music that is REALLY there. So you know, it's transcendent and there's really no "studio version" or "live version." It's just another execution of the song, itself.
I mean I know this all may sound elementary as hell, but it's just rope-a-dope that Frank & Co are doing this, while the "music industry" has people taking it for granted. You know, with all the BS "remixes" passing for b-sides and the different "versions."
As musicians (many of us, kinda) we realize this pretty well I think. Each time we pluck out a song we write, it's not like we're thinking "hey I'm doing the live version." And when we commit it to a permanent form we don't studiously attempt to recreate the most recent recording of it whenever we happen to play it again.
To the athiest fellow:
So with Beach Boys Pet Sounds album, they recently released a CD with the original mono and a "new" stereo version, supposedly overseen by Brian Wilson or whatever. So is this an example of the same thing as what you described with the Beatles records? Or if not, what are they doing?
"Make no mistake; Ricky Lake's eatin' mad steaks off your bad breaks."
Carlton Ridenhour |
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