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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
 Posted - 07/27/2003 : 19:22:51
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| I don't know who exactly to agree with here. I have no problem with the Catholics being Frank's backing band, especially of late, I think they're a great band. My one qualm would be that there are too many guitar solos...or maybe that the guitar solos are too long. I don't mind when they go on instrumental jams once in awhile, like that atmospheric work that begins and ends How You Went So Far, and I think the whole album Dog in the Sand is flawless in terms of musicianship, but as a friend of mine once said "I think guitar solos are more admired than enjoyed", and I second that notion. A mean 10 second guitar solo can be fantastic, but once they get to be about 20 seconds, it's just too much. Live this isn't a problem, because the guitar work is noisier and rawer and you don't mind the extended jam, but on record the solos can come off surprisingly...ordinary. Listen to Frank Black and Teenager of the Year, there are a few solos, but they're used sparingly and always very creatively (similiar to the Pixies). Anyhow, that's my one beef. |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2003 : 19:48:24
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
off topic:
The Kinks even wrote a song for their sessoin man (can't think of it's name, wasn't it something with Hopkins? or Anthony? Well It wasn't Anthony Hopkins anyway) who played harpischord on lot's of their songs. It's called Session Man and it's on Face to Face (great album)
You got me thinking. Nicky Hopkins. Here's some stuff on his session history:
http://www.rockument.com/session_hopkins1.html
excerpt: "In 1965, he played piano on nearly every song of the Who's debut album, The Who Sings My Generation (My Generation [Deluxe]). He played piano for the top British bands of the Sixties including the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Who, and Kinks, and on solo albums by John Lennon, Jeff Beck, and others. He also helped define the San Francisco sound, playing on Jefferson Airplane and Steve Miller Band albums, and even briefly joined Quicksilver Messenger Service."
I mostly know him through his work with Quicksilver and jamming with the Stones. If you can, give a listen to "Edward, the Mad Shirt Grinder", a long instrumental with Quicksilver that he wrote. |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2003 : 20:03:50
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Ok...this WHOLE topic and all the brainpower put into it reminds me of something.
Remeber that old episode of Saturday Night Live when William Shatner tells all those obssessed dorks at the Star Trek convention that "it was just a TV show!" ?
Come on people. As great as Frank is, and as much time as I spend listening to his art, I fear he might just step out from behind a curtain and yell "It's JUST A CD!!!!!"
CITIZENS OF EARTH: IT'S JUST A CD
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2003 : 20:30:16
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Hmm, not sure that solves anything. Is it JUST A CD? I highly don't think so but that is your opinion. I like analyzing CDs and bands and other types of entertainment/art (like movies). I love music, so I tend to discuss it and talk about it, no matter how minuscule a detail it is. Sure there is a difference between obsession, and plain old discussion, but I don't think this is too losery of a topic.
Besides, we weren't talking about just a CD, more like Frank Black's band.
(I dunno how serious you were, or if you were being sarcastic)
-Derek |
Edited by - ProverbialCereal on 07/27/2003 20:32:18 |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2003 : 20:49:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Itchload
I don't know who exactly to agree with here. I have no problem with the Catholics being Frank's backing band, especially of late, I think they're a great band. My one qualm would be that there are too many guitar solos...or maybe that the guitar solos are too long. I don't mind when they go on instrumental jams once in awhile, like that atmospheric work that begins and ends How You Went So Far, and I think the whole album Dog in the Sand is flawless in terms of musicianship, but as a friend of mine once said "I think guitar solos are more admired than enjoyed", and I second that notion. A mean 10 second guitar solo can be fantastic, but once they get to be about 20 seconds, it's just too much. Live this isn't a problem, because the guitar work is noisier and rawer and you don't mind the extended jam, but on record the solos can come off surprisingly...ordinary. Listen to Frank Black and Teenager of the Year, there are a few solos, but they're used sparingly and always very creatively (similiar to the Pixies). Anyhow, that's my one beef.
For me it's the opposite. I say the longer and harder the solo, the better |
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axel
- FB Fan -
Belgium
101 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 04:14:03
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The catholics are a good band, but the're dull. They do their jobs and that's that. I don't really hear individuals at work, the drums are nice but never original or powerfull, the guitarsolo's are ok but they don't really add value to the songs, the bass just isn't there. Oh jeah, don't get me started on the backing-vocals.
But I guess it's like in a marriage (Frank's music and me), for the better and for the worse. |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 04:27:19
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I'm just listening to the 2003 Chicago concert (from hearitagain) and the Catholics sound far from dull... Actually they're simply amazing. Now on the records, I reckon that the music was better back when Frank recorded multi-track. I listened to his first solo LP this week-end and the quality of the guitars and drums amazes me. As some people pointed out, Rich's solos aren't really remarkable. I think they should spend a little more time rehearsing and finding the perfect guitar solo or the perfect drums fill. But I certainly don't want them to disappear.
Denis |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 05:49:27
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Rich's solos rule
or
Rich rocks my socks
or
Rich is way out dude!
or
Cowabunga, Rich's solos are from Dimension X!
(yes I did visit a Turtles website for this quote)
''it's not a box, it's a submarine'' |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 08:56:38
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When evil Shredder attacks...
Rich Gilbert wasn't even on Devil's Workshop and I tend to like that album (and its solos) alot for some reason.
Velvety has a basic bluesy scale solo, and it is fitting
Out of State is based off the melody line
His Kingly Cave has a great solo
San Antonio, TX, well the intro just rules
Bartholomew solo based off melody line as well. Lyle rules.
Are You Headed My Way? has that basic riff which is catchy.
Modern Age.. can't remember lead stuff but I think it's cool.
Heloise has some sweet guitar work all around
The Scene is alright as far as lead guitars
Whiskey in Your Shoes also has nice lead guitar parts
Fields of Merigold has cool rhythm guitar, lead is good
DW is one of my favorite Catholics albums as far as lead guitar work goes. FB and the C's is definitely my fave lead guitar album because of Lyle. Pistolero has its moments (Bad Harmony, I Switched You, I want Rock n Roll) but some solos aren't that great.
-Derek |
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leokearse
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
203 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 09:30:56
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Frank Black and whoever he plays with are always going to be hamstrung by the fact that he was the driving force behind the Pixies. Even though the Catholics are my favourite band around now, the Pixies had that alchemy thing where what they produced was way more than the sum of its parts, way more than just music.
I'm kind of pleased that Frank is now making evocative, country tinged classics instead of raging, tormented classics, because it probably means he's a bit more mellowed and happier, and besides, I'm a bit older and mellower so I can appreciate it more! You can't blame the Catholics for not being the Pixies - if it was humanly possible to make noise like the Pixies, I'm sure somebody else somewhere would have done it by now. The Catholics are a natural progression for Frank. A lot of my mates (the ones that are a bit too old and mellow!) prefer the Catholics to the Pixies now.
Besides, he could have done a "Wings" when they split...or even a "Plastic Ono Band". Don't you feel relieved now?
- Leo |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 10:09:19
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Plastic Ono band aren't that bad
In fact their first record (Plastic Ono Band)
is one of my favourite records ever
''it's not a box, it's a submarine'' |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 12:19:49
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As a long-time FB fan, I tend to agree with Axel. The Catholics do their job and do it quite well, but... I can't help thinking they do nothing more.
That kind of professionalism is certainly enough for a modest album like Pistolero, but most of FB songs need (and deserve) more than that. They need daring, generosity, imagination, lightness, subtlety - in a word, inspiration. Frankly speaking, they need musicians like Joey Santiago, Lyle Workman, ED Feldman.
Well, that's my opinion anyway. Don't hate me for that...
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eebee
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
104 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2003 : 23:12:15
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i dunno if you dropped the pedal steel and wiggly guitarists for one album-i think frank would have an excellent solo album- i even prefer him live on his own too. though i do think on farewell bend frank's playing coupled with rich's kind of spastic erratic guitar playing is perfection
www.mp3.com/the_cosy_molars -please download the cosy molars demo ep off soulseek to give us a hand
http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2204 |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 08:41:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Frog in the Sand
As a long-time FB fan, I tend to agree with Axel. The Catholics do their job and do it quite well, but... I can't help thinking they do nothing more.
That kind of professionalism is certainly enough for a modest album like Pistolero, but most of FB songs need (and deserve) more than that. They need daring, generosity, imagination, lightness, subtlety - in a word, inspiration. Frankly speaking, they need musicians like Joey Santiago, Lyle Workman, ED Feldman.
Well, that's my opinion anyway. Don't hate me for that...
PISTOLERO a MODEST ALBUM???
Seriously, Frog and Axel, are you aware...I mean have you LISTENED to any of these albums and have you ever seen the band live?
Have you ever played in/fronted/led a band?
Have you heard SMYT yet?
Delay these uninformed diatribes till thine ears have heard the glory.
Love yas, but sheesh!!! |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 08:44:03
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The Catholics rule, but Pistolero sucks.
Denis |
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leokearse
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
203 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 08:55:37
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I like the pedal steel - it adds depth, richness, atmosphere.
Occasionally the solos can get in the way of the tunes, or fall a little flat, or go on too long. But the solo on "End of Miles" is straight up ace.
As for live, I think the Catholics are ace, though Los Angeles is sometimes buried under too much feedback and sonic youth style guitar histrionics. But suggesting that the songs would be better if Santiago etc were playing them is daft - they're way way different tunes from the Pixies. I mean, if you stripped down St Francis Dam Disaster, played it with howling vocals and steel plectrums in a tin box with Steve Albini twiddling the knobs, it would probably sound quite shit.
- Leo |
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Jettison
- FB Fan -
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 09:24:40
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I have a suspicion that this is the last album of the FB and the C's.
It just seems that the tides are turning.
Pulling it out of my ass,
Jettison
www.thecroakers.com |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 09:55:55
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umm, Frank's been with them for 7 years. I don't think he's just gonna leave them.
I just listened to the Chicago show from www.hearitagain.net and I have to say that if you think the Catholics are session band you're crazy. When the Catholics are their best is live, and on this recording the lead guitar work is awesome. I think it's Dave P. playing lead here and Rich on keys, but that's still the Catholics and they're still awesome. I mean, listen to what the Catholics have done with Gouge Away and all the Pixies classics, and listen to what they've done with the old Frank Black classics, and of course, the new songs. All the songs are so much better with the Catholics. Maybe Rich should stay behind the Keys and Dave play lead. I don't know, but they're both great wherever they are, and you have to love the pedal steel |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 10:37:13
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To be fair, the Catholics version of Gouge Away was created with Eric on the keys and not Rich, though Rich does a good job playing what Eric created and playing around with it. Compare the organs in Lowlands to the HearItAgain show, and you'll see what I mean.
That said, I'd say the Catholics are a big part of his sound right now and since I love his sound and always have, I'd say that I hope the Catholics are here to stay. And I'm sure that they do contribute quite a bit, but not the same things as Joey or Lyle or Eric or Nick contribute, because they are their own musicians. Not better, just different. |
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miguel
- FB Fan -
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 16:02:04
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I just think it's perspective and it's all too subjective. One person sees gravitating towards a country sort of thing as an evolution and a step in a more learned direction, wiser... and another person sees it as a sort of devolving to a easier, safer and more predictable place.
It seems like their has been a reversal in what he's doing. Older stuff seems to be easier to undertand lyrically and subject matter-wise and harder musically.. Newer stuff seems to be harder to understand lyrically and subject matter-wise and easier musically.
I'm taking into account that there are hidden meanings, parallels and characters I've never heard of in his songs nowadays. I can relate to the older stuff better than the newer stuff is all I'm saying.
www.namjunerobot.com |
Edited by - miguel on 07/29/2003 17:33:11 |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 17:40:07
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Cult of Frank...actually, the Catholics live version of Gouge Away is not the Catholics version. I have a CD of Pixies performing in Dec 1991 (I cant recall the venue but it was in Los Angeles)and Eric plays the synthetics with them, and they perform Gouge Away then exactly as the Catholics perform Gouge Away now. So, you are right when you say Feldman had a strong hand in the Catholics version, but it's really not their version...but dont get me wrong...I'm not trying to prove you wrong either or make this out to look like I'm pulling a big head trip either...so I hope its not taken wrong!  I just thought it would be interesting to throw that tidbit into the mix. Oh, the Pixies CD im reffering to by the way is a bootleg called ED IS DEAD. It's a dope show too! Kick Ass Quality Sound!
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN |
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Perhaps
- FB Fan -
133 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 18:14:19
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| I am happy to report I could not be more pleased with the band. I do not have SMYT, but I am still thoroughly enjoying the previous 5 albums with the band. In fact, I am doing a road trip and am anxiously awaiting the days of riding and listening to those very albums. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 18:37:38
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quote:
Originally posted by TRANSMARINE
Cult of Frank...actually, the Catholics live version of Gouge Away is not the Catholics version. I have a CD of Pixies performing in Dec 1991 (I cant recall the venue but it was in Los Angeles)and Eric plays the synthetics with them, and they perform Gouge Away then exactly as the Catholics perform Gouge Away now. So, you are right when you say Feldman had a strong hand in the Catholics version, but it's really not their version...but dont get me wrong...I'm not trying to prove you wrong either or make this out to look like I'm pulling a big head trip either...so I hope its not taken wrong! I just thought it would be interesting to throw that tidbit into the mix. Oh, the Pixies CD im reffering to by the way is a bootleg called ED IS DEAD. It's a dope show too! Kick Ass Quality Sound!
Really... well, that's pretty cool. I didn't know they did it that way with the Pixies, too. I'll have to try to get my hands on that boot <hint hint>. I have heard good things on it from other people too. Still, there's no denying that Eric's influence is all over the track as it's played these days, as you say. |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2003 : 18:51:56
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| The keyboards on it are awesome, but the lead guitar parts added by Rich and Dave make it a lot better too. And also, Eric is still pretty much as much a part of the Catholics as anyone else. Also, if you listen to the full band performances of Cactus, there has been some great lead guitar work added by the Catholics that was not there with the Pixies. |
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axel
- FB Fan -
Belgium
101 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 00:51:09
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quote:
PISTOLERO a MODEST ALBUM???
Seriously, Frog and Axel, are you aware...I mean have you LISTENED to any of these albums and have you ever seen the band live?
Have you ever played in/fronted/led a band?
Have you heard SMYT yet?
Delay these uninformed diatribes till thine ears have heard the glory.
Love yas, but sheesh!!!
yes yes yes and no (haven't heard smyt, but I'm pretty damn sure it's gonna be a hell better than pistolero).
I just follow my gut. Frank Black is my all time favorite artist, but I don't have to like every damn note he plays or every musical choice he makes.
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 07:16:29
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quote:
Originally posted by vilainde
The Catholics rule, but Pistolero sucks.
BLASPHEME!!!! |
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mkingicus
- FB Fan -
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 12:43:34
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I enjoy the catholics work very much. The music still gives me chills, and that means it's good. They are a different band in a different time than the Pixies and I don't think I would compare the two. But I will continue to support Frank because I'm sure he will never stop making unique, highly enjoyable music.
M King |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2003 : 13:04:33
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| I am not tired of the catholics. I think that they have been pretty good about following Frank where he seems to want to go and backing him up in all the most important ways. |
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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1718 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2003 : 01:44:08
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This is all very interesting... I don't know what to say about this. I've enjoyed the 3 latest Catholics albums immensely (NOT counting SMYT of course -- waiting for release) so I guess I'm not tired of them :-)
But I must admit that I'd love to see FB take a new direction and surprise me again. I mean, who on Earth could have expected Teenager of the Year? SMYT may be a wonderful album, and I'm sure it is, but it's hardly been described as a cornerstone so far. ("Cornerstone" not being the mot juste, but I can't find the word I'm looking for --if I even know it. This place is awfully noisy and I can't think straight.)
Hardly making sense as usual...
--
"Show some fucking adaptability!" |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2003 : 07:43:43
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| mot juste! jediroller, thank you. Dean and I have been searching for a correct spelling of this phrase for a while. Now please sir, what does it actually mean? I'll try and keep the noise down.... |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2003 : 08:00:22
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Yeah, my best guess was le m'aux jus, which, of course, is something along the lines of the my other juice, which is all kinds of sick and/or funny, but was pretty sure that was wrong.
Le mot juste...
the last word?
?? |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2003 : 08:09:18
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the right word
Denis |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2003 : 08:20:28
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| Well, that's make some sense since juste is probably a form of justice/right action. I guess I'll take the word of someone living in France. This time. :) |
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This Is It
- FB Fan -
141 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2003 : 13:08:10
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The thing I notice listening to the Catholics is that they don't stick out after one or two listens. But after several listens to a new album I'll go to work and all of a sudden there's this one riff or set of notes that's implanted on my brain and I have this anxiety until I get to go home and listen to that riff again. It's not even the whole song that sticks out just small parts. And that's what makes me love these Catholics albums because all of a sudden it's six months later listening to the album for the umpteenth time and now instead of waiting to hear 1 part on 1 song I'm waiting for a hundred of these parts that have been stuck on me. The music evolves. You can listen to a song 50 times and you won't like it until that 51st time when all of a sudden you notice that in the chorus they have really great backing vocals or something like that.
One who does not experience the permeation of slander and who is not agitated by accusations can certainly be called 'enlightened.' Indeed, such a person may be called 'transcendent. |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2003 : 18:38:26
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| both scott and dave contribute a raw sound that compliments frank's new stuff. they are all taking advantage of the 'live to 2-trak' recording in the way it was meant to sound. if you recorded 'freedom rock' on 2-trak it would possibly sound bad. a lot of the best country and roots-rock music were recorded on two tracks.....ie. kris kristoferrson |
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