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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
 Posted - 09/04/2003 : 12:18:14
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| Maybe you should all bear in mind that whichever side you may think is ridiculous/brainwashed/naive/whatever (and I think we all know where I weigh in on the topic), the fact is that the thread would not go this way if people were not RESPONDING to the pro/anti-war opinions that people are expressing. There's a thread that already exists, we've been over all this, and the type of arguments it devolves into are not what we want or need on this forum, so maybe all parties should just accept that the other side is not going to convert and we can resume what I assume what Totipotent's original intent for this thread. Yeah, a lot of what I've read here is offensive to me and my intelligence as a human being, but ignore it. |
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leokearse
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
203 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2003 : 14:27:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
Leo - get a grip. I think the US relationship with the Saudis is a bad, bad, thing. I consider Saudi Arabia as the real birthplace for the brand of radical islam that has created this geo-political nightmare we are in. That being said, what country in the world has any type of economic sanction against the Saudi's? None. So damn everyone for that if you are going to damn the US. I do.
Your binary argument is a joke. I guess you couldnt muster an intellectual response so you are going to attempt to insult me. Sorry pal, I have been lucky enough in life to have travelled the world extensively.
Seriously, try to keep your responses above intellectual sea-level and save your lame personal attacks for someone who could give a damn.
Hey dude, chill out, this ain't the Ted Nugent forum.
Lame personal attacks? I was just trying to see things from your point of view. I mean, McFly, NEWSFLASH! Politics is a bit more complex than the goodies/baddies view espoused by so many of my colonial chums.
I don't see how you can blame people for being cynical about Bush's motives for war, or American foreign policy in general. I mean, when Iraq had an elected socialist leader, which country assisted his assasination so that their puppet dictator (aka Saddam) could take over? Answers on a postcard to the White House please....
I don't think that America is the root of all evil - anyone who's been to a communist country will be darn glad they're going back to a capitalist democracy! I just think you've got a bad government right now.
- Leo |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2003 : 15:26:41
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Funny, trying to see things from my point of view? You made up a position for me on Saudi Arabia and then struck it down. You are concocting this goodie/baddie view that I dont subscribe to and then tear into the strawman you so haphazardly built. Its intellectual masterbation if you are going to concoct both arguments
If you want to blame the US for putting Saddam in place, who are the devils that kept him propped up with their francs and marks???? Its the selective anger that is pretty transparant and tiresome. If it was so wrong to put him in power (your assertion, not mine) than why isnt it MORE wrong to keep him in power after his true character has been proven. After its been proven he committed murder after murder? Its a circular argument and lacks logic.
This is my last post on this thread, I've done all the damage here that I can...So feel free to denounce my position thats pro-baby seal beating or whatever you'd like to concoct next. |
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leokearse
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
203 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2003 : 02:29:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
Funny, trying to see things from my point of view? You made up a position for me on Saudi Arabia and then struck it down. You are concocting this goodie/baddie view that I dont subscribe to and then tear into the strawman you so haphazardly built. Its intellectual masterbation if you are going to concoct both arguments
If you want to blame the US for putting Saddam in place, who are the devils that kept him propped up with their francs and marks???? Its the selective anger that is pretty transparant and tiresome. If it was so wrong to put him in power (your assertion, not mine) than why isnt it MORE wrong to keep him in power after his true character has been proven. After its been proven he committed murder after murder? Its a circular argument and lacks logic.
This is my last post on this thread, I've done all the damage here that I can...So feel free to denounce my position thats pro-baby seal beating or whatever you'd like to concoct next.
No Dallas, I didn't make up a position for you on Saudi Arabia. I was just pointing out that it's a bit hypocritical to invade one country because it's got a dodgy regime and not invade another.
The US didn't just aid Saddam into power, they aided him in the years following that, particularly during the Iran/Iraq war. I'm not saying that France didn't, I'm just saying that America did. Maybe America might learn from this and stop helping the Saddams/Bin Ladens/IRAs of this world?
Yes, I would assert that it it was wrong to put Saddam in power. Iraq had an elected socialist leader. The people didn't want some Stalinist arsehole with a crap moustache to screw up their lives.
- Leo |
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Scarla O
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2003 : 02:48:39
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Scarla O': "The biggest bully (globally) is and has been for the last 50 years - the US government."
Darwin: "Nice hyperbole. The USSR was a bit of bully, no? Prior to the Bush II administration, I think the US had been pretty good about not overasserting it's poor."
Hey Darwin. Whilst I fully accept that in a list of global bullies from the last 50 years the USSR would feature, the US gets the gold medal.
It's not an especially helpful way of looking at the situation, but purely from a statistical perspective if you were to count the number of countries whose governance has been interfered with by the US and the USSR then the US sits at the pinnacle of this impossible feat.
This goes back way before George Bush II. Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush Jr and Clinton - ALL of these governments interfered (militarily) with countries that behaved in away they did not like...sure, national security was normally given as the reason but everyone says that!
The comments about the US sucking Hussain's cock (eloquently put i thought) refers to the fact that the US trained and helped install Hussain in Iraq! The US (the UK and probably most western countries) sold him weapons when it suited us (ie, when we preferred Iraq to Iran) but threw a tantrum when he didn't behave in the puppet-like way we had come to expect. |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2003 : 05:07:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
Maybe you should all bear in mind that whichever side you may think is ridiculous/brainwashed/naive/whatever (and I think we all know where I weigh in on the topic), the fact is that the thread would not go this way if people were not RESPONDING to the pro/anti-war opinions that people are expressing. There's a thread that already exists, we've been over all this, and the type of arguments it devolves into are not what we want or need on this forum, so maybe all parties should just accept that the other side is not going to convert and we can resume what I assume what Totipotent's original intent for this thread. Yeah, a lot of what I've read here is offensive to me and my intelligence as a human being, but ignore it.
I'm in agreement with you COF. I enjoy bantering with the Bush supporters about the US actions, I find it interesting to hear their opinions but each argument does boil down to the same old things said in countless past topics, which we should rightly keep to those topics. I don't ever expect people like Dallas and Erebus to change their stance on the US, just like I am sure they don't expect me to suddenly become a US government supporter. I guess as long as we openly don't start abusing each other then the arguments we have are worthwhile.
Bacon....... Its not fantastic |
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Scarla O
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2003 : 05:25:53
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Yeah, that's fair enough i guess...apologies to Totipotent. |
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