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dougit
- FB Fan -
87 Posts |
 Posted - 06/22/2003 : 20:33:58
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Two basic types of Frank Black Fans: (this is all opinion, take it or leave it)
1. Ones who think "Teenager" is the peak of Mr. Black's music.
You like complicated arrangements and you do not mind a heavily produced sound. (First album, Dog in the Sand may fall into this category)
2. Ones who think "FBAC" debut album is the peak of Mr. Black's music.
You often find yourself saying "I Want Rock and Roll." I.E. you like to rock hard with a big guitar/small production sound. (Cult of Ray, Pistolero may fall into this category.)
These are gross overgeneralizatons, and you are all saying that you are part of both, and you are. But, I bet you fall into one half of this separation more than another. You know who you are.
Also some albums are hard to put into one category or another, the latest two (three) albums come to mind. Which is good, it means Mr. Black is merging the two main types of music he does.
((I must say I am a #2. I want rock and roll. Sure, "Teenager" is a great work, but when you have Time/Waner backing it, of course it is going to have a BIG sound. Have to say that there are only 8 songs I like on teenage, that means there are 14 songs that I do not like. I personally do not have that bad of a ratio for any other Black albums, including the dreaded Cult of Ray (which I love). I am also old enough to go all the way back to the original Pixies album, and all the Pixies albums (got em all when they first came out). And, well, that was some seriously original PUNK ROCK. Those who like punk rock, and did not go soft (hehe), are most likely to also be "#2's"))
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2003 : 21:27:14
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| There's a song you don't like on Teenager? Much less 14 of them?! I admit that the brown album isn't my number one, but damn it, I still love every song he's done prior or since. Not that you're not entitled to dislike whatever you want, I just don't understand you is all. |
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Sheamus
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
345 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2003 : 22:50:09
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| I think it just comes down to the style of music prefered by the individual, as his first few solo records are of a fairly different genre of music to the Catholics stuff. |
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Sheamus
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
345 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2003 : 22:54:50
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| I think the problem with Teenager isn't that there are a lot of bad songs, it's that the album is too long for many people to have the patience to sit down and fully digest. If you seem to be having this problem, I recommend that when playing the disc, every second time you listen to it start on "Ole Mullholand" and play it from there to the end. Once you comprehend the brilliance of the later songs you may then play it from track 01 and recognise its excellence every time. |
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miguel
- FB Fan -
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2003 : 23:55:45
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| My first FB album was teenager and it'll probably always be my fav. I bought it on a complete whim having no clue who he was. It took me awhile to get into because it was so different from what I was listening to. It redefined the way I listened to music and set the bar. No one I knew had heard of him or the pixies where I lived. My wife's friend was in a they might be giants cover band before I knew her, in texas, and he gave her Frank's first solo album, so when I met her and she had it... I was like, you've heard of FB?! I personally like the old school frank, it seems more creatively charged.. It's really hard for me to get into his Black Letter Days vein but, I've got nothing but respect. I hope Lyle has more of a part in his musical future. |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1036 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 00:13:53
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I gotta say I don't fall into either category. I love everything Monsieur Black has done. Pixies, FB, Teenager, Cult, the Catholics...When I look back at his body of work I'm completely amazed. Just the other day I threw in Surfer Rosa and remembered why it's my second favorite (if not tied for favorite) with Trompe of the Pixies albums.
As for Teenager, at first I mainly liked the faster songs, then eventually came to appreciate the whole record.
cheers |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 00:33:07
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i think frank still hasn't peaked
-brian |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 00:56:36
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I agree, to say that Frank peaked on Tennager is an insult to the man as it suggests that his post Teenager work is at a decline. Frank has by no way peaked and is still writing songs that better his previous work. I'm well looking forward to Show Me Your Tears and will have it soon!
War....... Its not fantastic |
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SebAcrossTheOcean
- FB Fan -
France
2 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 03:00:49
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I'll wait a long long while to define my place in your classification. Longer than the time it takes for species to change in other species. Cause we are species settled on the two sides of the same continent and evolution might bring us together once again, or separate us more, who knows ?
Mais qu'est-il arrivé à Pong ? |
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mergzez7
- FB Fan -
France
166 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 03:58:32
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I used to listen to Frank Black only as a complement to the Pixies, not really getting into it. I only became a fan after seeing him live for the Dog in the Sand tour, so i guess DITS will remain my fave.
zez |
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blackpurse
= Cult of Ray =
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 04:50:34
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| "There are two kinds of people in the world: the kind that seperate people into two categories and the ones who don't." |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 07:20:12
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| WORD, blackpurse |
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blackpurse
= Cult of Ray =
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 07:36:17
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quote:
Originally posted by ramona
WORD, blackpurse
I had that in quotes, for the life of me I can't remember who said it. couldv'e been Homer Simpson for all I know... |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 07:42:05
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| Yeah, but YOU quoted it and I liked it. Perhaps b/c I fall into neither of these categories. |
Edited by - ramona on 06/23/2003 07:42:29 |
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Perhaps
- FB Fan -
133 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 09:31:19
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Maybe a third/fourth category.
3. those who think that FB has yet to hit the peak. Or that there are so may peaks that one is not particularly defining.
Or, I suppose another way to put it,
4. those who think there are no peaks only a shit load of up's. |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 09:40:39
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| I will be in a fifth undefined catagory, which goes something like; People who just think Frank Black is fucking cool. |
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Perhaps
- FB Fan -
133 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 10:00:36
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| Surely these categories are pretty lame. It's truning out to be kinda funny that people put up a stink about isolating themselves into an identity (via identification into a category) but so forthrightly relegate topics related to FB to such identification (Survivor, "best"..."worst"...blah...). Essentially doing unto one's hero what one is reluctant to do to one's self. Not to create a stink are anything. Just to smell it. |
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 10:19:57
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My first Frank Black album was "Come On Pilgrim", so I've been with him from the beginning. I loved the Pixies, but when the ST FB solo album came out, I was in total awe. I thought it was easily the best thing that he had done yet. Teenager came out and WAS hard to digest at first. I just had to keep coming back to it time and time again. Eventually the puzzle worked itself in my head and the whole record became a timeless masterpiece. One of those albums that isn't immediate in the least, but will stand that test of time and is REALLY hard to become bored with (Minutemen's "Double Nickels On the Dime" is another example of this kind of album).
Cult of Ray came out and I loved it too. I really didn't even notice that his sound was becoming more "streamlined" or more "stripped down". Stuff like Marsist, Adventure & Resolution and plenty of others still offered plenty of quirky Frank-isms. "Dont wanna hurt you" had Tom Petty written all over but done in total Frank fashion, while "you ain't me" and "jesus was right" just kick total rock n' roll ass (Lyle's solo at the end of JWR is one of my favorite solos of all time).
The Catholics ST album came out, I immediately fell in love with 75% of it, the rest eventually worked itself into my brain. Instant classics were "all my ghosts", "doggone", "Do you feel bad about it", "666". Loved the stripped down feel.
Next up was "Pistolero" and I was totally blown away by that album. I still to this day have no clue as to why a lot of folks don't like this album. I think it's amazing. It's heavy as shit, raw as shit and has a tinge of a "western" atmosphere. I didn't have a CD player in my car when I first bought this, so I had to make cassette dubs of it. I literally wore the reels off of 3 copies before finally breaking down and installing a CD player in the car. I played this album non-stop.
Next up was "Dog In the Sand" and maybe half of it was immediate. "Blast Off" bored me the first listen (and pretty much still does - that's one song that just never has sunk in for me). But I immediately noticed a big Rolling Stones influence on "I Saw Your Picture" and "Hermaphroditos".....damn, Frank sounds quite a bit like Mick Jagger on the chorus of the former. Is that Keith Richards playing guitar in the latter  I think "the Swimmer" had a RS vibe to it as well. It's most certainly distinguishable that Frank was wearing "Exile On Main St." out while writing for this record. "If It Takes All Night" is hands down my favorite song on the album. I love the "Johnny Horton" line. "St. Francis Dam Disaster" is one of Frank's lyrical masterpieces. Brilliant telling of a story which until hearing the song and doing some research, I had never previously heard about. I don't listen to the song too much these days as I'm kinda burnt out on it, but it's a masterpiece of a song nonetheless.
After that I waited with total impatience for my next Frank fix. I heard the story that not only one, but TWO records would be released. I saw Frank live about a month before the albums leaked and remember hearing "Cold Heart Of Stone" as well as "21 Reasons"....after hearing those songs live and only one time, I had them stuck in my head all the way up until I got the actual albums. "BLD" and "DW" just totally floored me from the first spin and througout the whole "sinking in" process. They still floor me to this day. I play them very often.
Show Me Your Tears brings us up to date and I still haven't formed an opinion on it. It's just not soaked in yet. There are some songs that I like pretty good, there are others that just are not doing it for me. For me, this album is next to Teenager in the fact that I was not immediately pleased with it (and so far, the jury is still out....while Teenager became a total masterpiece to my ears, this one still hasn't...Im really hoping that it will with time).
So I don't about those generalizations. I do know that I think "Teenager" is a masterpiece and that it was probably Frank's peak as far as that particular style of Frank goes. I don't really see him going back in that direction any time soon. But I love the Catholics stuff every bit as much. If I had to pick an all time favorite FB record, it would currently be "Black Letter Days".
I can say that I like FB solo much more than any of the Pixies albums, even though I have a thousand memories locked within those 5 records. |
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blackpurse
= Cult of Ray =
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 10:28:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Perhaps
Surely these categories are pretty lame. It's truning out to be kinda funny that people put up a stink about isolating themselves into an identity (via identification into a category) but so forthrightly relegate topics related to FB to such identification (Survivor, "best"..."worst"...blah...). Essentially doing unto one's hero what one is reluctant to do to one's self. Not to create a stink are anything. Just to smell it.
No, I think the issue here was that there were only two choices, and they were not necessarily binary/polar opposites.
As Clint Eastwood said to Eli Wallach in The Good the Bad and the Ugly, "There's two kinds of people in this world, people with guns and people who dig," he says, fingering the safety on his gun, "You dig." |
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bazza
* Dog in the Sand *
Ireland
1439 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 12:07:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face
i think frank still hasn't peaked
-brian
i agree with you 110% fella. |
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dougit
- FB Fan -
87 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 14:53:28
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| I was just trying to get people talking about frank. and you have started to talk. Lots of negative comments about my original post. Wow, are people sensitive when it comes to teenager. Did I mention I have every Pixies album, and I have every F. Black album sans Black Letter Days, which I'll be buying at the same time as his new one. It is also kind of childish to say that I just do not understand "Teenager" and this is why I do not like it the best. Half of you were never even pixies fans. I have been with Mr. Black from the start. And I am truely on of his biggest fans. It is simply fun to dichotomize things sometimes, you know, the yin and yang. I also thing that a good many of you are "Teenager" fans i.e. Type #1, and you took offence to my original post. Just having fun...dougit |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 15:31:43
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| I fall into the category of thinking his music gets better and better with every new album |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 15:31:49
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| Teenager is my least favorite FB album. Too many songs I do not like. I don't like synths at all...at least the first solo album rocked. |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 15:37:12
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| I didn't like synths at all...until Frank Black |
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noexx
= Cult of Ray =
361 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 19:15:32
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i can't stand horns and i hope he doesn't use them on more albums after SMYT. but that's just me.
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2003 : 20:57:13
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| Sheesh, as someone who always comes up with 'theories' about music, I can say I'm with you Dougit in feeling a little annoyed at everyone immediately shooting you down. How about two types of Frank Black fans "the kind that make a curious little assumption into some sort of close-minded 1984 thought police segregation thing and those who don't" |
Edited by - Itchload on 06/23/2003 20:59:03 |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2003 : 07:46:56
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Both Itchload and Dougit are clearly part of some sort of conspiracy of secrets and lies. We've come close to the truth in this thread, and Itchload can feel it..... the truth is out there Big Brother, and we will find it!
Oh, and I'm probably a type 1. But I love all his music more than I like taffy. And I'm a man who enjoys his taffy..... |
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2003 : 09:09:25
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frank black is simply a new breed of what ever type the 'modern
musician' is. He is a rare breed with growth in control as opposed to
sloth creatures that simply degenerate (both listeners and creators)
-he may be a bit off which is natural in the 'modern age' but a part
of him is aware of the beauty that either the pos. or neg. energy
can create if focused correctly -there is probably a counting crows
fan web thing unit and as an example i can't understand anything they
do- all i hear is obnoxious mopyness beating me over the head via
corpradiohipmotizm -but hey that's jes me -maybe they will be considered classic americana pop mainstays or whatever in the popular
opinionlongrun but i'd sooner have them and their discs jettisoned into the sun -thank god for frank black and those hillbilly barnstormers he plays with (i wouldn't call stan ridgeway a hillbilly
barnstormer-but what the hell)'s all i know- and let's jes hope he
keeps suckin' up that jain or whatever..(if anyone reads this that CAN
communicate with frank tell him to get a good Iyengar yoga teacher and
if he can give it 12 weeks at 90 min. a week -he WILL thank me)
...that voodoo that hedoo just roks.
http://www.deoxy.org/raw.htm
R |
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blarg007
= Cult of Ray =
USA
493 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2003 : 09:11:02
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P.S. i just like the word hillbilly to tell the truth.
R |
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parker_airspace
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
63 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2003 : 11:27:50
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i think i know what you're getting at dougit, but it does seem to have thrown up a "well i liked him first" thing which is disgusting......who cares? ..... the main point is (all hole pickers out there) that we have joined this site because we love this mans music......we will all have our favourites, thats life.....who cares?.....its just f**kin amazing music!.......
- was smashed head on by a giant truck :( - Chris |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2003 : 13:33:53
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 Erm, did i just read what i thought i read
I am sure someone gave us their opinion that they prefer FB's solo work to his work with The Pixies 
Kidding you must be, Mr Rutherford ! |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2003 : 18:04:24
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ha, watch out Homer, you might not want to open up that can of worms on this site.
I couldn't decide honestly. |
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2003 : 20:26:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Homers_pet_monkey
Erm, did i just read what i thought i read
I am sure someone gave us their opinion that they prefer FB's solo work to his work with The Pixies
Kidding you must be, Mr Rutherford !
 Nope, it's no joke! And not only do I prefer his solo stuff to the Pixies, but it's really not even a close competition. And I seriously was there from the Pilgrim days onwards. I can remember many, many mornings going to school singing "here I am with my hand" and "you are the son of a motherfucker"........SOOOO many memories in all of those records. But my best memories were yet to come and when the first FB record came out, wow, I was just floored. I was pretty lukewarm to Trompe as it was a tad bit hard for me to digest at first, but damn, Frank's debut solo album sunk in immediately. Instant classic for me! Teenager was much like Show Me Your Tears is to me now. When I first got it, I was kinda eh, it's not bad, but I wanted better, but with time I discovered that not only was it NOT bad, it was INCREDIBLE. Damn, I hope SMYT's is gonna hit me in the head the way Teenager did after absorbing it for a while.
But yeah, make absolutely no question about it, Im nowhere near the Pixies fan that I am the Frank solo fan. For me it's like a really good high school team playing against the San Antonion Spurs....there's just no competion between the two. Frank solo has so many songs that have such deep meaning to me on every emotional level. |
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dougit
- FB Fan -
87 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2003 : 01:18:54
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THERE ARE 666 TYPES OF FRANK BLACK FANS, but that post was too long. So I condensed it down to two types of fans. But really, can we all take a chill pill?
I do not mean to seem holier than thou because I go back to come on pilgrim. Just trying to say that I have listen to Frank Black's music for a long time.
I think the part of my original post that we need to concentrate on now is where I said his latest two (three) albums are a departure from either "type 1 fans" or "type 2 fans" Black Letter Days is awesome, so is Devil's Workshop.
Unelss you feel like ranting, in which case let it roar.
Mike, I agree that Frank Black/FBATC is better than the pixies. Far better, actually. But, FOR THE TIME, the pixies were it for me. Just as, for this time, Frank black is it for me. My favorite music-maker, hands down. |
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Leah
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
314 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2003 : 08:31:39
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What I find interesting about this debate is that none of you have really touched on how there appears to be a COUNTRY influence in the mix.
I see this as some sort of progression that you could almost take as being like whether you are more a breeders fan or a Throwing Muses fan also.
The Breeders are almost PURE ROCK, whereas the Muses (both Kristin and Tanya) have at times crossed over into country music sounds.
The presence of a steel guitar is mostly Rich Gilbert to the Catholics and I think thats why the Catholics generally have kept away from generic rock tunes and produce a more melodic slightly less frantic sound.
*running for cover as you all shoot me in flames*
That said I have time for both and I think of the PIXIES as being PURE ROCK, Frank solo as being likewise but FB&TC as being more a COUNTRY BAND...
Still trying to get someone to part with a copy of SMYT so I am fully aware that my neck should can-it right now...
Every choice human being strives instinctively for a citadel and a secrecy where he is saved from the crowd -
Nietzsche |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2003 : 08:42:23
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| I totally agree Leah. Frank has clearly been influenced by country music, mostly since the pedal steel made it's first appearance on Dog In The Sand. I personally love the new direction, but I also love the super-synth sounds of the early solo material and the hard rockers of the middle era. That being said, I think Frank has shown a country influnce for a long time. Songs like Speedy Marie (obvoiusly a favourite of mine) and Superabound featured country licks and sound great. I was listening to Superabound again today and thinking about how it would fit quite nicely on SMYT. |
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