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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
 Posted - 06/11/2003 : 06:24:50
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To expand on what others have said, there is just something about having an album - the artist has put a lot of time into putting the songs in the final order, choosing the artwork, making the booklet if there is one, and of course writing the music and lyrics. How great would the White Album be if it were just a bunch of MP3's you could download in no particular order, rhyme, or reason, from Kazaa? What would it's significance be? Or what if the title track to Bossanova weren't Cecilia Ann? And the rest of the tracks were ordered differently or not at all? Is it the same thing?
I think not. I used to download individual MP3s all the time, but since FB, I've grown to appreciate the artistry of an album. Solid Gold is completely out of context, for example, with any other disc, or song, but fits just right in the Brown album. Think of the entire album as a big song with art - now how good of a song is it if you just pull out a verse here and a chorus there? Obviously, it wasn't written/put together for that purpose, and no one in their right mind would pull out just a chorus from a song, except maybe marketing lackeys. |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 06:36:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
To expand on what others have said, there is just something about having an album - the artist has put a lot of time into putting the songs in the final order, choosing the artwork, making the booklet if there is one, and of course writing the music and lyrics. How great would the White Album be if it were just a bunch of MP3's you could download in no particular order, rhyme, or reason, from Kazaa? What would it's significance be? Or what if the title track to Bossanova weren't Cecilia Ann? And the rest of the tracks were ordered differently or not at all? Is it the same thing?
I think not. I used to download individual MP3s all the time, but since FB, I've grown to appreciate the artistry of an album. Solid Gold is completely out of context, for example, with any other disc, or song, but fits just right in the Brown album. Think of the entire album as a big song with art - now how good of a song is it if you just pull out a verse here and a chorus there? Obviously, it wasn't written/put together for that purpose, and no one in their right mind would pull out just a chorus from a song, except maybe marketing lackeys.
I don't want to hear it till I have the actual cd, am in my basement (which has been dubbed New Amsterdam)and am smoking a big fat stinky, purple bowl of Kentucky's finest.
That's the perfect way to listen to new FB. |
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blackpurse
= Cult of Ray =
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 06:38:40
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Cult of Frank, I so totally agree wholeheartedly -- it's the whole *package* that I look forward to -- yes the songs themselves are the foundation (if they suck, no amount of packagine is going to save it), but it's like a great restaurant: it begins with excellent food, but you can learn to cook the food. It's the service, the atmosphere, the music in the background, the anticipation, etc.
One thing that's really subjective is the time of year when something is released: Perhaps SMYT is indeed an "autumn" album. I associate certain albums/songs with summer, winter, etc, and they just SOUND right because they came out or broke when they were released -- they just go with the weather. However, I do admit, this could be totally off base when you consider what our Austrailian friends might think -- this will be a "spring" album for them. |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 06:40:33
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quote:
Originally posted by blackpurse
Cult of Frank, I so totally agree wholeheartedly -- it's the whole *package* that I look forward to -- yes the songs themselves are the foundation (if they suck, no amount of packagine is going to save it), but it's like a great restaurant: it begins with excellent food, but you can learn to cook the food. It's the service, the atmosphere, the music in the background, the anticipation, etc.
One thing that's really subjective is the time of year when something is released: Perhaps SMYT is indeed an "autumn" album. I associate certain albums/songs with summer, winter, etc, and they just SOUND right because they came out or broke when they were released -- they just go with the weather. However, I do admit, this could be totally off base when you consider what our Austrailian friends might think -- this will be a "spring" album for them.
I associate albums with colors so I know what you mean. Yes, certain albums fall under the "seasonal" thing to me as well.
But mostly color, and it has to do with the overwhelming color scheme of the cover. |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 07:23:15
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| "Last Splash" has always been my "summer" album. And not just because of "Saints", the whole album has that feel to me. A few years ago I noticed that I would bring that record out at the begining of every summer and drive around with it cranked. It's a great record anytime of year, but it's especially wonderful on a clear, hot day with the windows down and the sunnies on. |
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 08:47:50
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| Well, I got the new FB this morning. Haven't had a chance to digest it yet (that usually takes some time with any FB release as well all know). But regardless, I see nothing wrong with someone that wants to download the record now and listen as long as they buy. I grabbed both BLD and Workshop last May from the now-defunct AudioGalaxy, bought them after their official release and STILL listen to them "almost" daily. So it didn't "ruin" anything for me. If you would prefer to wait, then that is fine too. I can say this much about BLD & Workshop leaking early........a lot of folks I know that dloaded those albums and fell in love with eventually purchased them and these are folks that would NOT have otherwise. I think MP3s help artists like FB. The artists MP3s hurt are your Britney Spears types whom have 2 or 3 tracks per record tailored to be singles and the other 9 or 10 songs on the record are pure filler. The common top 40 music fan will download the singles, make themselves a mix CD of top 40 hits and not buy the rest of these tailor-made artists albums. That's who the downloading is hurting. My latest stats show me that while major label sales may be down, indie sales have actually shot up quite dramatically. I'm all for the MP3 revolution. Im totally convinced that it helps the indie artists (ie...the true ARTISTS)....most people are gonna buy those records. |
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blackpurse
= Cult of Ray =
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 09:40:41
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quote:
Originally posted by speedy_m
"Last Splash" has always been my "summer" album. And not just because of "Saints", the whole album has that feel to me. A few years ago I noticed that I would bring that record out at the begining of every summer and drive around with it cranked. It's a great record anytime of year, but it's especially wonderful on a clear, hot day with the windows down and the sunnies on.
Yeah, I wonder if artists take that into account sometimes -- that their album sounds "summery" (and Last Splash really is a Summer album, it does lend itself to driving on a hot day very well) so they time the release in April or something... just a thought.. or an album that gets really intellectual might be a "back to school" album since people might be in that frame of mind. I wonder how much of that is planned, or how much of that is pure coincedence! |
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velvety
= Cult of Ray =
Portugal
536 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 11:28:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rutherford
Well, I got the new FB this morning. Haven't had a chance to digest it yet (that usually takes some time with any FB release as well all know).
details, please! |
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 11:55:25
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| Well, as for details, I can't say too much yet. There's 13 songs. The albums begins with "Nadine" and ends with "Manitoba". 4 of the songs are under 3 min. and 1 song is under 2 min. Only 2 songs, "Massif Central" and "Manitoba" go over the 4 min. mark, with "Massif Central" clocking in at almost 5 min. Total album length is 41:37. I've just listened to maybe 30 seconds of each song (besides "Nadine" which I've heard in it's entirity) and my opinion as of right now is that most of the tracks don't sound too much like "Nadine". The production sounds excellent. Really clear, as of now I would say more so than BLD or Workshop. There's some piano on here, some pedal steel (of course)....hmmm...not much more I can say as of now. After I give the album a couple of spins I'll try to comment more about the individual tracks. |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 12:24:47
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| Where did you get it? KaZaa? WinMX? SoulSeek? LimewireBareshareNapster....? Where damn you!!!! I'm flushed and a little shaky and I've lost primary kidney function, and I apologize. But I really do need to know where to get it. Cause if I don't, someone could get hurt. |
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 13:25:35
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| None of the file sharing places...a friend got a promo and he burned a copy of the promo for me. But take it from me, the first place you will see it will be Soulseek (other than some of the underground Newsgroups/IRC channels). But as for the standard P2P services, it will be on Soulseek in a matter of days if it's not already. |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 13:58:38
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The problem I see with file sharing is a problem I saw mentioned in an article that someone said: there is a generation of kids out there who never have or will buy an album. They get all their music online, from friends, etc. So while file sharing only seems to put a minor dent in the sales of albums, what will it be like in 10-20 years?
Re: Last Splash...didn't Rolling Stone name it the "Album of the Summer 1992"? |
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ivandivel
= Cult of Ray =
394 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 14:03:42
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| I don't have any problems with people downloading the album, burning it, digging it etc. But I wonder if it is appropriate to discuss it's qualities/review it at this moment. The album isn't meant for our ears at this moment (except for the chosen ones who i'm sure has been told not to leak it - unless of course, there's a big marketing plot going on). I'm not sure - just wondering. There's no point in pissing people off just because one can't keep things to oneself. |
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Steev
- FB Fan -
39 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 14:21:43
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So let's skip to the real question here:
Does anyone currently have the album as mp3s, and are they willing to share it?
I would be happy to facilitate the sharing by hosting files on my ftp server.
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greg
- FB Fan -
Canada
159 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 14:45:10
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Yeah, go ahead and download if thats what you want. I must agree with Mr. Rutherford that music "piracy" only hurts the most banal forms of commercial crap. I will download to test the waters with a new sound or band. Reading the forum on this site has led me too download a bunch of music that I had never even heard of. As a result of my downloading I now have purchased stuff that I will enjoy and own forever. Having said this though, I will wait for certain new recordings as their is a lot too be said of finally getting that new Spice Girls album in your sweaty hands!!!
(just kidding) |
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noexx
= Cult of Ray =
361 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 15:37:48
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i'm all for downloading music on peer to peer file sharing newtworks, though it doesn't sound as great and i always buy the real thing if it is someone i like like frank black etc...
we just had a new e.p. come out and it is alreayd all over kazaa and all that stuff, but that's how most people found out about us was when napster and those others were around....it's good exposure and what not.
ryan |
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 15:37:58
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quote:
Originally posted by ivandivel
I don't have any problems with people downloading the album, burning it, digging it etc. But I wonder if it is appropriate to discuss it's qualities/review it at this moment. The album isn't meant for our ears at this moment (except for the chosen ones who i'm sure has been told not to leak it - unless of course, there's a big marketing plot going on). I'm not sure - just wondering. There's no point in pissing people off just because one can't keep things to oneself.
I thought the point of sending out promos in the first place was to discuss/review the album before it ended up in the stores. Otherwise, what would be the purpose? Promos are sent to create a "buzz", some of which is always gonna be good, some of which is gonna be bad. |
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 15:53:40
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quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
The problem I see with file sharing is a problem I saw mentioned in an article that someone said: there is a generation of kids out there who never have or will buy an album. They get all their music online, from friends, etc. So while file sharing only seems to put a minor dent in the sales of albums, what will it be like in 10-20 years?
Re: Last Splash...didn't Rolling Stone name it the "Album of the Summer 1992"?
Well, personally, I grew up on vinyl and still to this day nothing can compare to an LP to me. As for the kids that have grown up downloading, well, they are the ones that are missing out on what it's like to go pick up a nice sweet vinyl LP and pull out that lyric insert and smell that brand new vinyl smell, etc. etc. etc.
But as to your points regarding what it will be like in 10-20 years, well, for one, music distribution as we know it is gonna change in some ways during that time span. Whether or not that will mean the extinction of music stores as we currently know them, I don't know. I tend to doubt it in many ways. What I personally think will happen is there will be a flurry of artists that have real degrees of talent whom produce quality music that will get more exposure due to the lack of needing the major label marketing dollars to push their product. As a musician or an artist who believes in your product, this is an exciting time. You can reach the world from your bedroom, in a sense. Marketing dollars still help a great deal, but as time goes on, the corporate strength is lessening and the indies are rising in abundance. Like I said, it's no great secret that since the great advent of file sharing, indie labels have thrived. I think the day of the rockstar might be in swift decline (and by rockstar, I mean the Michael Jackson "Thriller" proportions). I may be wrong, but I think the extreme super-excesses of those kinds of artists are gone.
I think we can also thank file sharing for the lower price of CDs with the greater incentive to buy. Look at Metallica's new album (horrible as it is). Hell, they included a full length DVD, a 76 min. CD and a code in which you can access an online vault of bootleg shows and many outlets were selling the record for $10.00 and under. Lots of CDs are starting to include DVDs with their package as well as lower prices. I think file-sharing led to a lot of customer awareness as to the fact that the RIAA were price-gouging the customers as well. It's no doubt that file-sharing was a big play in the reason the RIAA got sued by the government last year for that very reason.
Yes, file-sharing does have it's downsides, just like anything else in life. There will be people who will undoubtedly download the new Frank Black record and never go out and buy a legit copy. But on the flipside, there might be people who download the record, love it and go out and buy a copy whom would not have otherwise. I just really don't feel as though file-sharing is detrimental to an artist with such a solid fan-base as Frank Black. He has a grass-roots approach and he's always gonna sell enough records to make a decent return on his efforts. |
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ivandivel
= Cult of Ray =
394 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 15:57:01
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Well, I don't know, maybe my superego got too dominant for a while. If the album is meant for our ears (at this moment) - fine. Still, I have negative vibrations regarding this issue, which i really can't articulate, which indicates that i shall go to sleep. |
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greg
- FB Fan -
Canada
159 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 15:58:53
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| Computer audio, be it mp3 or what not is garbage. Get yourself a good turntable and some electrostatic speakers and look the fuck out!!!!!!!!!!!!! You hear more music than you realized was possible. Way better than live,way better than digital. |
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CaptainMaximus
- FB Fan -
126 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 17:26:01
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| For everyone's info, it just appeared on Soulseek in the past hour. Oh well---let's see if everyone can control themselves and wait now. |
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 17:39:00
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quote:
Originally posted by CaptainMaximus
For everyone's info, it just appeared on Soulseek in the past hour. Oh well---let's see if everyone can control themselves and wait now.
LOL, I made a friend a copy around noon today and he is constantly using Soulseek so I have a good idea of where it came from within the last hour..... |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 17:43:02
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i can't find it on soulseek...
-brian |
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 17:45:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face
i can't find it on soulseek...
-brian
Look up a user by the name of misfit08-----he should have the album up within the hour for those interested.
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Edited by - Mike Rutherford on 06/11/2003 17:50:07 |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 18:46:44
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| it's going to take about 13 hours, but I will soon have Show Me Your Tears. Oh thank you, misfit08. |
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Chip Away Boy
= Cult of Ray =
914 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 23:57:27
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| i want it!!! i see it on soulseek but its all queued up |
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Chip Away Boy
= Cult of Ray =
914 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2003 : 23:59:26
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| i'm number 33 in line |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2003 : 00:10:31
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manitoba = holy fucking shit
-brian |
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Chip Away Boy
= Cult of Ray =
914 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2003 : 00:26:23
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| really? ooho ooh i'm 24 in line now |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2003 : 00:29:45
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OK. Now there's another question... Should the people who already have the album talk about it on the forum? I don't want to download it (though I totally agree with Mike Rutherford's opinion), but I know I can't help reading what everyone says about it here.
Denis |
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Chip Away Boy
= Cult of Ray =
914 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2003 : 00:32:03
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yeah thats like asking a duck not to quack
HAHAHAHAHAH |
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2003 : 02:11:38
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quote:
Originally posted by vilainde
OK. Now there's another question... Should the people who already have the album talk about it on the forum? I don't want to download it (though I totally agree with Mike Rutherford's opinion), but I know I can't help reading what everyone says about it here.
Denis
Well, once I've had time to properly digest the album, I'll make a post over in the Frank Black Making Noise section of the forum and title it as such. This way, those of you that want absolutely no spoilers as to what the new album is like will know not to click on the post and those of you that do want to hear some of the first reviews of the album can click the link and me and the other folks here that are getting the album can post our reviews in said thread. Sound fair enough? I have a feeling reviews will start leaking out of the Rolling Stone, Spin, etc. etc. camps soon as well (of course, corporate nonsense rags like RS will spin the record once like they obviously did with both BLD & Workshop and give it another sub-par review, while they will immediately give slop like the new Metallica positive reviews.......we all know what it boils down to with tripe like RS in the long run of course...$$$$$$)......
But anyways, me as well as probably most of the people here at this forum can attest to the very statement Frank himself made over at the Cooking Vinyl page, the "if you just listen to my records once, you're never going to like one of the damn things"...................
So I think I'm going to let this one steep in my head for a bit before I post my review.
-----Let me just add to this post, in reference to my Rolling Stone comments, this is another reason why I think a leak of an album by an artist such as Frank Black is a GOOD thing. True lovers of music like me are going to properly digest an album and give it an HONEST review, unlike rags that give good reviews per advertising $$$ and in hopes of doing future business with certain acts that are bringing in the $$$$. I mean seriously, nooone can tell me that the folks at Rolling Stone really think that the new Metallica record is what they claim it to be in their review.
Anyways, true fans of Frank are gonna listen to this album, 9 times out of 10 they are gonna love it and we are gonna be trying our best to get the word out and get people in stores buying this record in Sept. and going out and supporting Frank when he comes nearby on tour. |
Edited by - Mike Rutherford on 06/12/2003 02:17:54 |
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Steev
- FB Fan -
39 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2003 : 05:46:57
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Hopefully we're all waking up to successful SoulSeek downloads this morning. I ran to the computer before I had fully opened my eyes and was overjoyed to see that one of my queues had followed through, and all thirteen shiny beautiful tracks were sitting in my download folder.
Kick ass.
I burned it to a CD, and will listen to it on the Metra this morning while I do my New York Times crossword puzzle. This kicks such phat booty. I cannot wait. |
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Chip Away Boy
= Cult of Ray =
914 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2003 : 11:08:48
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| Followed through for me as well, God bless the internet. |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2003 : 12:43:28
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Misfit08 please reply me on soulseek...I can't browse your files...Please,please,please let me have this one!
www.munchienandalusia.too.it |
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