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cnotes
- FB Fan -
USA
57 Posts |
 Posted - 04/05/2003 : 22:22:41
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[quote]Originally posted by Dave Noisy
Hey Mike, thanks for participating here, that's really decent of you.
My pleasure.
>>There's over 900 people in the Forum, and well over 100 visit it daily.......What's MBG?
MBG=money back guarantee....that's what I was considering offering all member. Do you ever email all members?
>>but i would like to see the show sold for at least half as much. Considering your 'overhead' is virtually nothing, there's a pretty hefty profit margin (assuming you make sales.)
Well, you have to factor in the development of the site, my time, and the regular maintence/improvements....it all adds up. Sure, if we sell thousands, Frank and I are happy; if we sell a few hundred, it's a tough business. Perhaps at some point we'll test lower price levels---hey, if we lower the price a bit and sell thousands more it may make sense.
>>Again, thanks for being a part of the group, i think that's really admirable, and i apologize for the initial hostility. (I don't mean this as an excuse, but generally people who have something to sell just post and then bugger off, i'm glad you didn't do this.)
Believe me, between this forum and the emails I've been receiving I'm gaining an immensely valuable amount of excellent feedback. And, BTW, to those suffering from slow Internet connections forcing d/l interruptions, by Monday we'll have individual tracks available for download and, in some cases, CD delivery.
Take care,
Mike Corso
HearItAgain.net
http://www.HearItAgain.net |
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cnotes
- FB Fan -
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2003 : 22:24:29
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quote:
Originally posted by mdisanto
It kinda sucks that this show doesnt have the new new songs, like house of the pope and such. if it did i would buy it in a second.
Wait for the 2 California shows ;)
Mike Corso
HearItAgain.net
http://www.HearItAgain.net |
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guy_nolan
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
417 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2003 : 05:06:31
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It would be nice if someone could upload just a couple of full tracks the the FTP server, the thirty second samples really didn't give me a good enough taste.
Your darling critic |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2003 : 13:31:56
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| No dice! We will not be uploading any full tracks from this show. You'll have to fork over the cash. Sorry. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2003 : 19:04:01
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Good call. If you think it's too expensive, don't buy it. I personally do think it's a little pricey, especially as a Canadian with our oh-so-low dollar, but I certainly wouldn't pirate it from someone. I think that Mr. Black gives us a hell of a lot of bang for our buck on every CD, certainly more value than I get from going to a movie or to the bar (unless he happens to be playing live!) or whatever, and I certainly have no desire to take money from his pockets, whatever his percentage might be. From what I can tell from those little clips, the quality is pretty exceptional for a live performance. And I'm pretty sure that given the fact that it's Frank Black, the music will be incredible, so there's really no risk to even merit a "MBG" or uploading a few full tracks to the FTP server.
Having said all this, though, I think that the price is quite steep Mr. Corso, and I would pay $10 CDN for it, but not double that, despite my craving for a really nice-sounding live show. I understand that you have setup costs and so forth to recover, but it's not really fair to try to do so from one concert. :) Setup costs aside, there are monthly hosting/bandwidth fees, plus salaries for the webmaster(s) and people recording/mixing the show, so I know there is some overhead, but it can't be that huge per download, especially if the price was $6-7US/$10 CDN and you had many more people from this forum downloading it. Still, its a great idea, and if I weren't a poor student things might be different. Maybe I'm just not in your target demographic. :)
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2003 : 20:06:28
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I agree with CoF, well said.
As i said, i'd be willing to go as high as $5US for 192kb (preferably Fraun) encodings. <wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more!>
I have all the email addresses, but no desire to start emailing people stuff..
I'm glad this has been helpful for you Mike, perhaps in the future members of the FB forum can get a discount on a show. ;)
Also, it might be in your best interest to make a full tune or two available on the FTP site..there's a number of people that download from there, but don't read the Forum that could be missing this info... |
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debaser
- FB Fan -
France
121 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2003 : 08:21:38
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Do you plan to have a CD release of this show ?
I would buy a $25 set of 2 CDs but am not ready (yet) to spend $12 for mp3s.
A few years ago the guys at emusic.com did the same with the B sides album, Oddballs.
It started with some mp3s to download and it ended with a CD to order, and I am glad i did not buy the mp3s and waited for the CD.
They tried to give me advice
Down at the record shop
-Frank Black |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2003 : 12:42:24
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| I remember that...back when Oddballs was first released on MP3s, someone on the AbstractPlain (Renee?) pointed out that eMusic had an intro offer where you could download like, 15 MP3s for free or something. A lot of us (including myself) got Oddballs free that way. |
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cnotes
- FB Fan -
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2003 : 16:37:29
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[quote]Originally posted by Dave Noisy
As i said, i'd be willing to go as high as $5US for 192kb (preferably Fraun) encodings. <wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more!>
Dave--We use iTunes to encode the MP3's (uses the Fraunhofer IIS coding technology licensed by Thompson Technologies). There are others like Lame and there is also a Mac-compatible encoding software available called N2MP3 Professional (with an update available for OS X) that we're going to experiment with. It contains five different encoders, including the Fraunhofer. We feel that the mastering software and how it is used play a much bigger role in the quality of the final product than the codec.
>>I'm glad this has been helpful for you Mike, perhaps in the future members of the FB forum can get a discount on a show. ;)
The seed is planted.
>>Also, it might be in your best interest to make a full tune or two available on the FTP site..there's a number of people that download from there, but don't read the Forum that could be missing this info...
Thanks for the suggestion--I'll see what I can do.
Mike Corso
HearItAgain.net
http://www.HearItAgain.net |
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cnotes
- FB Fan -
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2003 : 16:42:33
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quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
I remember that...back when Oddballs was first released on MP3s, someone on the AbstractPlain (Renee?) pointed out that eMusic had an intro offer where you could download like, 15 MP3s for free or something. A lot of us (including myself) got Oddballs free that way.
emusic is a very cool site and they still offer free trials (50 free downloads to try the service). Got me hooked: http://www.coolsite.com/emusic.html
Mike Corso
HearItAgain.net
http://www.HearItAgain.net |
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jrhager1
- FB Fan -
2 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2003 : 18:38:01
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| Can somebody tell me if the songs are up for download individually instead of in the zip yet? Also, how long is it going to be on the site? Im interested in seeing what the Cali set lists are before I download. |
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cnotes
- FB Fan -
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2003 : 13:10:32
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quote:
Originally posted by jrhager1
Can somebody tell me if the songs are up for download individually instead of in the zip yet? Also, how long is it going to be on the site? Im interested in seeing what the Cali set lists are before I download.
For those who need it, we'll put up songs individually--just email support@hearitagain.net This show will be on HearItAgain.net indefinitely. I'll see if I can get set lists for the upcoming shows.
Mike Corso
HearItAgain.net
http://www.HearItAgain.net |
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marcusb
= Cult of Ray =
USA
308 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2003 : 14:02:59
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| Will HearItAgain always note when a song that was played is not in the recording? |
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cnotes
- FB Fan -
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2003 : 16:47:14
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quote:
Originally posted by d3niz3n
cnotes,
I am ready to purchase this show, only I am still waiting for a secure connection to use my cc. any chance this will be ready to go any time soon?
The order checkout process is now https:// secure. Enjoy the show!
Mike Corso
HearItAgain.net
http://www.HearItAgain.net |
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d3niz3n
- FB Fan -
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2003 : 08:36:55
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| thanks mike! |
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cnotes
- FB Fan -
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2003 : 17:12:50
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quote:
Originally posted by marcusb
Will HearItAgain always note when a song that was played is not in the recording?
Absolutely. Expect nothing less.
Mike Corso
HearItAgain.net
http://www.HearItAgain.net |
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Zsolt G.
- FB Fan -
117 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2003 : 20:47:06
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I really think that this idea is quite horrible. First off, everybody should have expected this considering Frank's new obsession with making some cash (i.e. the "Smells like Teen Spirit" and similar comments). Hell, I can't even blame him for trying to take advantage of us. But if y'all are beyond some crazed hero-worship type shit, I think this is a good time to let Frank know what we DON'T want from him.
1. For $10 dollars I can go buy the new White Stripes album at Walmart. $12 is a king's ransom. There are little to no production costs on this thing. People keep websites updated as a hobby besides their real 9-5 or school, so if Mr. Corso does it as a job, I don't really feel too bad for him. Frank already made his money on this concert. It was sold out. The tickets were $20 a piece, $25+ if you bought them from the extortionists at ticketmaster. Plus you just had to get drunk, didn't you, $20+ bar tab. I mean if you lost your virginity at this show or something, I could understand you might want a souvenier, but otherwise YOU are the one being taken advantage of. Either steal this show or ignore it, don't let Frank get the wrong idea. This shit simply sucks.
2. I don't blame Mr. Corso, he is simply a capitalist and a willing conspirator. But he and Frank should find a better way to rip us off. Like 90 minutes of Frank snoring. Now that I would pay for. Actually that's a funny story because my girlfriend worked at a sleep disorder laboratory, and they had a tape of Leonard Cohen snoring, and Sandra Bullock too. Ha, if Sandra only knew that I knew that she snored, she wouldn't be so smug...but I digress.
3. I'm sincerely worried that these kind of endevours signal a foray into the realm of jam band. I am not interested in a 45-minute version of any of Frank's songs, and hope it will not come to that. The latest show I saw was great and showed no change from the straightforward ROCK format, but I start to worry when I see stuff like this. I guess Surf Epic was a tad on the long side...but hell...it was a b-side. At least the Pearl Jam/Phish/etc. bootleg series featured packaging and CDs and soforth for a similar or perhaps lower price. Goddamn hippies have it good.
4. People are gonna say, "if you don't like it, don't buy it". Well that's not enough. I'm trying to awaken the fanboys to the idea that you are FULLY in control of Frank's career. If you don't buy this, he will realize that you aren't the sheep that I know you really are. Solidarity, show some backbone you slugs. This shit ain't Star Wars, and I ain't buying all the action figures again. For $0-$5 this is a genuine fan product. For $12 this is an overprice rewarmed burrito. Actually burritos rewarm pretty well...so it's like overpiced rewarmed "freedom" fries (those are gross).
5. I love you all. |
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Visiting Sasquatch
= Cult of Ray =
USA
451 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2003 : 21:54:25
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| I'm sure if Frank made the kind of money Pearl Jam/Phish make, he'd turn communist, and spit on all capitalist pigs! But alas, he has a job, and he'd like to be paid for it. I'm sure you don't work for free, do you comrade? |
Edited by - Visiting Sasquatch on 04/10/2003 21:59:22 |
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Zsolt G.
- FB Fan -
117 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2003 : 22:32:48
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| Well, tell you what, I'll make an audio recording of my day at the office and sell it to you for $12 over the internet if you like. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2003 : 23:02:02
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Some good points there Zsolt..let's not let this turn into a 'we hate Zsolt' thread..
I've been complaining about this from the start, and was rewarded with threats of physical violence from the Neolithic-likes of JamesM.
Perhaps we can try and resolve this discussion with a process that isn't so pitifully baseless. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6194 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2003 : 03:38:38
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Everybody is always bitchin' about FB that he should do a Live release. Now he gives us what we want and we keep on complaining.
Though I don't like the format en the price....
''it's not a box, it's a submarine'' |
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Visiting Sasquatch
= Cult of Ray =
USA
451 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2003 : 05:01:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Zsolt G.
Well, tell you what, I'll make an audio recording of my day at the office and sell it to you for $12 over the internet if you like.
The real comparison would be for you to not get paid by your employer/clients at the office.
Hmm...it's baseless to say Frank Black should be paid for his work/music? My communist bits were jokes, albeit sarcastic ones. I don't know what you want-statistics stating the fact that he should be paid? Like cnotes said, if he can make more money by selling a million more downloads at a lower price, he'd probably go for it. Let's not kill the venture before it even takes off with stupid boycotts. Besides, apparently the live recording will only be available for a few weeks after it's made, so it's not supposed to be a release, but more like a T-shirt or hat you can buy that came from the night's gig. |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2003 : 08:17:49
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| I must say the show sounds great and that the song-by-song download option works fine. Sound quality is better than almost any true bootleg I've heard, but then it helps to have a basic equalizer. People shouldn't be too upset about the price, at least initially. The market, to include agitation here, will have its say. For me, having easy access to yet another great show is well worth the $12. Can't think of a better use for my money than giving it to Frank in exchange for samples of his gifts. I'm looking forward to something from the California leg of the tour. |
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cnotes
- FB Fan -
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2003 : 08:37:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
Sound quality is better than almost any true bootleg I've heard, but then it helps to have a basic equalizer. People shouldn't be too upset about the price, at least initially. The market, to include agitation here, will have its say.
True--the market will have it's say. To be honest, when I started putting HearItAgain.net together I was thinking the price per show should be $30 then, after discussing with many people, I decided on a price that I knew to be fair AND would enable the business to survive even with modest sales.
Mike Corso
HearItAgain.net
http://www.HearItAgain.net |
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KingOfSiam
- FB LinkMaster -
USA
460 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2003 : 09:09:25
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$12 for a live download of a COMPLETE concert is fine. I will not pay for a partial concert. In fact since this was apparently the first go around and the recording is incomplete - I think it should be free!(This would certainly promote the future recordings by letting consumers hear the quality)
I have recordings of alot of Frank shows and I don't sell them and I wouldn't even trade them unless they are complete recordings!
$12 for a partial concert download is reCOCKulous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Futhermore, The LivePhish website charges $9.95 for mp3's and $12.95 for shn's. This is over 300 minutes of music, the quality is much better and they supply you with printable cover art, CD Labels and booklets.
Not that I would rather listen to live Phish but, I just think the pricing and quality is a little out of whack - for what is included.
Oh yeah and these Phish downloads are COMPLETE, WHOLE concerts, wow what a concept! The whole recording, with Cd labels, booklets, U cards and 150 minutes of live music for $2.05 less than a 90 minute incomplete Frank Black show. Maybe I should start listening to Phish too??? Or maybe Frank should use the company that Phish uses??? |
Edited by - KingOfSiam on 04/11/2003 13:03:49 |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2003 : 09:45:33
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I just downloaded it and it sounds great. I definitely recomend it if you are willing to pay for it. I do wish it was complete but, hell, he said it was because of technical difficulties, they didn't just take those tracks off. I say if no one else did their own recording that they're willing to trade, then go ahead and buy the incomplete one. There's only 2 songs missing and the sound quality is awesome. I also signed up for that free download thing which is VERY smart of them to do.
It would be really nice if they would make art for it, but that didn't stop me from buying it |
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
653 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2003 : 11:26:05
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A few thoughts on this idea and its execution:
$12 is not bad for a complete (or near-complete due to technical difficulties) show, but it obviously could be better. *
It's a shame that it's only available as MP3's. I understand the ideas behind that, but as I pointed out to Mike in a private e-mail to him, I think they'd have more takers if they made it available as an MP3 download at a reduced price (since you're not getting any art or anything), but also offered it as a Limited Edition set on CDR.
They could keep costs down by only making a set number of discs (less than a thousand), and packaging all of their shows in generic diecut cardboard sleeves with the website name and logo. Then each show, could have a sticker applied to the front that would list the artist, date/location and song titles.
This would look a lot like the old TMBG Hello Recording Club singles, and after you factor in the cost of the blank discs, burning them in a high-speed industrial copier, applying a paper label or thermally-printing the CDRs themselves, and the expenses incurred by the cardboard sleeves and stickers, you're looking at between $2.00 and $2.50 per 2-disc set.
They would cost little to mail, so the whole thing could be delivered to your house for something like $18 bucks in the USA and $22 overseas. That's still less than a silver glass-mastered bootleg CD set that some company overseas might press, and although those might have fancy packaging, you can always make your own. In fact, I feel certain someone will and it will spread around. Also Frank and his band see NONE of the money for commercially-pressed boots, so this is definitely the way to go fpor true fans who care about supporting someone whose work they admire.
I'm not going to be so cocky as some on this board and assume I know anything at all about the startup costs for this venture, nor what (if anything) the artists are paid for helping to facilitate the technical hassle of the recordings themselves. Decent soundboard tapes are time consuming to make and usually require a split board so you can make a seperate mix from what gets sent to the front of house PA speakers. Perhaps there's a rep from the company who travels with them and handles this stuff , and that could get pricey.
However, given that Frank's NOT Phish or Pearl Jam, and isn't going to be moving that kind of volume, it stands to reason that he should be expected to charge more than they do for a similar product.
I encourage HearItAgain to consider something like this scenario. That way the fans who insist on enjoying recordings without internet compression can do so, and accordingly pay a bit more for the product. It's a forgone conclusion that these shows (by any of the company's partner artists) are going to be duped and traded eventually, so why not reward those who are happy to give Frank and this company their money by delivering the product in a way in which it is clearly desired?
On a second note - I went ahead and was one of the first to purchase this concert via MP3 download. Unfortunately, after I received the entire show after a 51-minute feed, the giant file popped up on my desktop with a suffix of ".asp", which my iMac refuses to recognize.
When I tried to merely change the suffix to ".mp3" (which sometimes helps), it made no difference.
I have e-mailed Mike directly about this days ago and have received no response, so although I paid for and received the show I am unable to enjoy it. I have noticed that he has responded to posts on this thread, so Mike, if you read this, please send me a private message and let me know how to resolve this quickly and easily. I am using iTunes 2 if that makes a difference.
* As far as the person who was upset that a few songs were missing - when Bob Dylan's mic cable cut out during one song at his big 1992 tribute show in Madison Square Garden, they left it off the subsequent album, which makes perfect sense. There's a big difference between FB & The C's allowing a sloppy live version of something to get out and another if there's a buzz, crackle or otherwise jarring sonic problem that they don't wish to preserve for posterity.
Thanks -
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
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CoolMint
- FB Fan -
40 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2003 : 13:04:11
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I have an issue.
Someone named "c-notes" was in a forum that I view for shits and giggles, data-mining, and "cookie" crap have got to go.
Seriously.
The GOP you ask me?
Trailer park Dickensian miscreants, retro-twisted denizens of evolutionīs back waters and cul-de-sacs.
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franktaper
- FB Fan -
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2003 : 14:31:23
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Here's the complete, in-order set list for the Double Door, Chicago, IL, Friday, March 28, 2003. Just in case anyone wants to put their download together this way...
Where Is My Mind?/ Whiskey In Your Shoes/ Bullet/ Sir Rockabye/ Robert Onion/ The New House of the Pope/ Mr. Grieves/ Los Angeles/ California Bound/ Cold Heart of Stone/ Headache/ Horrible Day/ Six-Sixty-Six/ Nimrod's Son/ Jane the Queen of Love/ Gouge Away/ Hermaphroditos/ Crackity Jones/ I Want Rock 'n Roll/ How You Went So Far/ Cactus/ Massif Centrale/ Nadine/ ENCORE Manitoba/ The Holiday Song/ Black Rider
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yvestrias
- FB Fan -
France
4 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2003 : 12:37:39
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From Paris: this download is like pure jewel out of the pending shit: from where does Frank find so much clarity/light?
Today I listened to something close to heaven: this recording is simply how it should be played and heard.
Yves
quote:
Originally posted by cnotes
Did you see Frank Black & The Catholics Friday night??
If you did, HearItAgain.net recorded it and you can download it from http://hearitagain.net/product.asp?3=18
FB&C put out a scorching 90-minute set at the Double Door in Chicago on March 28, 2003. Included in the set were a handful of new songs.
This show is a diamond in the rough--listen to these songs as they were meant to be played and heard.
HearItAgain.net
http://www.HearItAgain.net
[moved]
yt |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2003 : 13:18:07
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| Hey Mike, thanks for linking to FB.net. =) |
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cnotes
- FB Fan -
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2003 : 10:06:51
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quote:
Originally posted by NimrodsSon
It would be really nice if they would make art for it, but that didn't stop me from buying it
Any volunteers? ;)
Mike Corso
HearItAgain.net
http://www.HearItAgain.net |
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cnotes
- FB Fan -
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2003 : 10:23:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Noisy
Hey Mike, thanks for linking to FB.net. =)
Are you kidding?!
Thanks for maintaining this water cooler--I may not agree with EVERYTHING posted but I love to see it, react to it, learn from it, and hopefully make the whole HearItAgain.net experience better for fans in the long run.
Mike Corso
HearItAgain.net
http://www.HearItAgain.net |
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Zsolt G.
- FB Fan -
117 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2003 : 23:44:40
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Alright, my previous post came off a bit angry, but my feelings have not changed. Basically, I think it is unfair for Frank Black to say that my next record (which is what it can be considered as it is an official copyrighted product) is a bunch of MP3 files that you can download for the price of one of my real records. I'm all for progress, but as a music afficionado, I expect something more...how shall I say this...substantial than a bunch of 1s and 0s. This is turning into like Ultima Online or something where people sell "virtual" in-game items for real money on E-bay. I own all Frank's albums and singles, and go to his concerts, but I don't consider this a legitimate album, and don't intend to buy it.
Also, I think it is...how should I say...unprofessional to solicit fans to design artwork for this product. I'm sure there are people on this board who would be thrilled at prospect of working on something Frank related, but despite their good intentions, I think they ought to be compensated, which I don't think is in the cards. |
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spunXtain
= Cult of Ray =
USA
377 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2003 : 00:18:33
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I would do it for free. I dont want to make money for things like that. I would do it to help my fellow fans. I bought the show, I love it, and I don't regret it at all. cnotes, you rock, dont worry I will buy every show you put up. Just give me a discount lol.
Got coffee, got donuts, got wasted.. |
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