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Chris Knight
= Cult of Ray =
USA
899 Posts |
 Posted - 04/07/2003 : 15:02:44
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| When Jimi Hendrix starts crankin' out one of those long, "intricate" solos, it makes him look all "erudite" and shit. |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2003 : 21:00:56
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| What are you tryin to say? |
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leokearse
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
203 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2003 : 04:00:29
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Oh Lordy, I forgot that Sonic Youth fans are also slightly humourless and quick to sulk (or "aggrieve with velocitude, eh PsychicTwin?).
Sonic Youth are capable of knocking out a decent tune, but choose not to, in no small part because of an elitist desire to stay "underground", "cool" and not "sell out". In other words, brand management - they don't want plebians at their gigs (though why they would want to keep their fanbase of crochet-hatted art students beats me).(don't have a cow, PsychicTwin! I'm just being wide).
Bands shouldn't put barriers up to their music. I consider plenty of bands to be far worse offenders than Sonic Youth in producing deliberately obtuse music and having wanky spend-yer-trustfund-on-heroin fans (Low, Azalea Snail, Joe Stump etc). My point was that the Youth could have been one of the all time greats, instead of getting the screwdrivers and melatonic-jazz scales out for ANOTHER 35 minute rendition of "Kim Falling Down The Stairs In A Washing Machine".
As for Sonic Youth being in some way "sophisticated" - whats "sophisticated" mean, latin for shite?
- Leo |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2003 : 06:40:31
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| Hey, Sonic Youth fans wouldn't get so rowdy if people didn't constantly say things like that. So what? They never lost their (maybe) overindulgent edge. So what? Their music is still noisy, still occasionally flawed. Sonic Youth were never about being perfect, and they're one of the only bands I can think of who have played for over 20 years and haven't sold out or lost what made them great in the first place. Since when is this a bad thing? Would you be happier if they were making 3 minute pop rock songs by this point? I'd figure the least a nonfan could do was marvel at the fact Sonic Youth are still annoying them the same way they always did. |
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leokearse
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
203 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2003 : 08:18:47
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Fair point. The world would be a poorer place without Sonic Youth. But what does sold out mean? Is that when non-college educated people listen to your music?
- Leo |
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Orange Rolls Angels Spit
- FB Fan -
Sweden
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2003 : 09:27:32
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Its pretty intresting to se peoples
reaction when they hear a Sonic song.
One time I and 2 near freinds were sitting
and listening to Sonic Youth-Sister.
And one of my freinds liked it to begin with
but when the solo thing came he said... whats that noise!
and he wanted to turn it of. But my other freind "Mattias"
Was still sitting in the sofa and steard into the wall.
Later i asked him whats wrong? And he said. Oh my good
their music is beautiful....and he looked that he was 100 miles away...
Its the same with me when i hear Sonic i dount hear any noise.
To me its sound so beautiful especilly when i laying in my bed
and is going to sleep its all dark in the room and the only thing I
hearing is the beautiful sounds coming from the speakers.
It feels like im in a totaly different world.
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2003 : 13:00:25
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Selling out is different for every band. For Sonic Youth it would be if instead of discordant guitar interplay, they started sticking Boston guitar solos in the middle of each song. The non-college comment was pretty funny, but only half of the band graduated from college and honestly, the only way you could know they were literary minded would be to read their interviews, which most of the time are jokes anyway (thurston is known to lie to the press). P.S. you might note Frank succumbed to the same intellectualizing/artiness with the early Pixies albums, name droppin' David Lynch and Luis Bunuel, conciously inverted old cliches, and putting a sweet pop song next to an abbrassive scream fest...are you telling me 500 people haven't bought Surfer Rosa for Where is My Mind then returned the damn thing the next day?? It's the same thing really.
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PsychicTwin
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1772 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2003 : 14:46:50
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Leo of the Arse-
Aggrieve with velocitude! Very good...you're getting there slowly but surely. Keep reading those books, even though it is such a pseudo-intellectual and pretentious practice.
I'm not arguing that Sonic Youth have a certain aesthetic/direction to their music...maybe that comes off as concsiously putting up barriers to you, but i think that in music (and all art in general) the most interesting and memorable works are those that challenge their observer/listener to some degree.
Would you rather have a few bands like Sonic Youth around, or a thousand bands like Nickelback and Matchbox 20? I'm a big Sonic Youth fan, but I never made the statement that I love ALL their songs indiscriminately...there is some Sonic Youth i hardly ever listen to any more. my point is, i would rather listen to even the most out-there and bizarre noise-fest that SY might whip up, than anything playing on commercial radio today.
I respect whatever opinion you might have about SY, but you come off as a little ignorant (and a tad rude as well) when you make such gross generalizations about people just based on a band they listen to.
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2003 : 16:54:35
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| One man's trash in another man's treasure. Some might see the noise as annoying and obnoxious...but to use a song as an example...Disconnection Notice has a part near the middle where it kinda mellows out and there's this badass riff with Kim making nothing but a squeeling noise on her guitar, and I just think that part is absolutely beautiful. The noise is partly chaotic, but the beautiful floating riff in the background keeps the song in check. And how the squeeling just kinda comes out right into the riff...I dunno, it just hits me. |
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PsychicTwin
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1772 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2003 : 18:05:31
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yeah, El Barto. that is what i find most appealing about Sonic Youth....when i first started listening to them, what stood out through the chaos and offbeat song structures was that there were these perfect moments, albeit for a few seconds or whatever, where they were able to take pure noise and sculpt something really beautiful out of it. I think the background guitar in "Wish Fulfillment" is a good example of this....during the intro, the way there is the main riff as an anchor, and the guitar in the background is just making noise.
Good stuff! |
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leokearse
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
203 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2003 : 04:10:49
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Yo PsychicTwin -
"Leo of the Arse"? That's not very clever, is it? There was also no need to mention "Nickelback" on this board....I need to scrub myself with a wire brush now. (Although if you watch the "How I Remind You" video with the sound off it looks like Poodle Boy is looking for his car keys, quite amusing).
As for Frank Black name checking Luis Bunuel ("Chien Andalucia") etc, Bunuel was a left wing surrealist whose work was in part a response to the rise of fascism in Spain and the Spanish civil war. The work that Frank Black referred to, "Un Chien Andalou" was a criticism of the apathy of the Spanish bourgeoisie (did I spell that right?) and the avant-garde (that's Sonic Youth! Sonic Youth are avant garde.).
The Pixies' music has, to me, always had an undercurrent of social justice and celebrates the life, struggles and desires of the ordinary person. They were also about the only band to call for the liberation of Palestine (though I might have misinterpreted the lyrics here).
Anyway, I'm not saying Sonic Youth are shite, I'm just saying they might have been better if they'd been born in East Kilbride instead of Poshville USA. The slagging of 'commercial' bands is a bit duplicitous - last I checked Sonic Youth all lived in big nice houses paid for by the sale of many copies of their albums to art students who wished to appear clever.
- Leo |
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PsychicTwin
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1772 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2003 : 09:16:47
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Leo- i think you might have missed the point i was trying to make. I agree that dissing a band because they are "commercial" is murky territory, because it insinuates that a band cannot be "good" unless they are piss poor.
That was not what i meant by "commercial"....that adjective, at least in the way that I use it, describes any band that has a mainstream, radio-friendly, and a boring & hackneyed sound. Regardless of how much money they make! I'm very happy that Sonic Youth live in big houses paid by the albums they put out...it is a blessing that they get to do what they love and what they are very good at, and reap the benefits of their work. same for ANY band (yes, even Poodle-boy and his troupe of horrid jackasses.)
What i don't like is when a band dumbs down their music or distills a chorus/riff/what have you to the point where it is just boring and blatantly for commercial appeal (i think Lenny Crapitz's "Fly Away" is the ultimate paradigm of this.) This is what makes 90% of rock music that is out today complete CRAP...because there is no feeling behind it, there is no challenge behind it either--most of it is background music, radio filler, or a selling point for some new car on the market.
Whether or not you like Sonic Youth, you cannot deny that they take absolutely no part in that whole charade. That is clear in their musical aesthetic and their mentality...if they just happened to make some money of off what they have been doing for 20 years now, then all the more power to them. |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2003 : 09:18:40
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| Luis Bunuel's films are straight out of the avant garde, Frank found out about them in his avant garde film class! (I know this because I took the same class, it's kind of the stuff of legend). Bunuel's stuff is a criticism of the bourgeoise, yeah, and it did make fun of the serious avant garde, but Sonic Youth are no strangers to irony either. Sonic Youth have songs that criticize the bourgeousie ("In the Mind of the Bourgeoisie Reader"), and I'm willing to bet Bunuel was even richer than Sonic Youth after all the art students pretending to be clever made it possible for him to direct about 40 films througout his career. |
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leokearse
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
203 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2003 : 09:41:36
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Yeah I do get your point about bands selling out or dumbing down their sound - I was just being nippy. I think, whether they mean to or not, Sonic Youth have been very clever in managing their brand so that they are still a respected band (with a record deal). If they wanted though they could make such a cool rock album - half of "Dirty" just blows me away. It's like Tony Soprano not wanting to make 2 more series; there should be a law that FORCES him to make more Sopranos and FORCES Sonic Youth to make the really cool rock album. They could always release it under a different name so as to not alienate the atonal-art-wibble brigade.
I agree that Sonic Youth can't be too pretentious either - didn't they release a song called "I Killed Christgau With My Giant Fucking Cock" after getting panned by said reviewer? That's about as ace as song titles come.
Itchload, were you in the same class as Frank Black? That's a cool story for the grandkids.
As for Sonic Youth / Louise Bunuel criticising the bourgouise, it's a bit like Tony Benn renouncing his lordship and becoming a socialist and criticising the bourgeoise. Number one: because all of them were born slightly posh themselves. Number two: it doesn't matter that they weren't born horny handed sons of the soil because they're all good at what they do.
Thurston - if you read this, make that supercool rock album, where every song's like Sugar Kane or 100% or Wish Fulfilment. I bought Psychic Hearts. You OWE me.
- Leo |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2003 : 16:47:06
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| Leo--yeah I did, odd huh? Professor Don Levine. The legend goes, Frank stood up in class and asked Don Levine (who always gives away the endings to movies) to not blow it this time, and Don Levine told him to sit down. It is now a theory that Don Levine is the "debaser" in question. I actually have a class wiht Don right now, so I asked him about it, and he told me the story first hand. He even likes a few Pixies songs, and was relieved when he read the lyrics online to Debaser that they're not as extreme as they could be (he also appreciates perverseness, so i'm sure the "slicin' up eyeballs" stuff amused him). |
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leokearse
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
203 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2003 : 09:39:54
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Wow, that's a pretty cool story. Trying to think if I've got any comparable stories....oh yeah, the lead singer of Stiltskin (the band who wrote a song like "Today" for Levis when the Pumpkins wouldn't let Levis use the original) is from Dumfries. I grew up 20 miles from Dumfries, and regularly visit the supermarkets there. Naw...not really as good a story, is it? Me and my mate once tormented Pat Sharpe (shite radio DJ and children's TV presenter) for an evening, answered his mobile phone when he was buying a pizza and told his wife he was full of coke and shagging hoors. We got a mention on Kiss FM for that, and a signed picture of Pat saying "Hi Craig and Leo". Maybe if I'd been born in California instead of Dumfries I'd have some better anecdotes.
- Leo |
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Dinsdale Piranha
- FB Fan -
24 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2003 : 18:49:58
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Deliberate rock snobbery just aint cool, I guess. It really makes 'em look silly.
Anyway, aren't they all like 40 now anyway (Sonic whatnow)?
(Mitigating factor: I hear Thomas Pynchon likes them... which makes me think we should start a literature thread round 'ere)
...oh, it looks like I came in late on this one.... *urp* |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2003 : 21:44:09
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| They could be 80 and I'd still buy their album, c'mon Frank's pushin 40, no reason not to keep buyin' the music |
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leokearse
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
203 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2003 : 03:46:28
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Yeah but you're allowed to be overweight and over 40 and make country tinged rocknroll - look at Johnny Cash. But atonal poncy Noo Yoik art wonk can only realistically be made by people who are young, or at least skinny (Mogwai are exempt as the pies in Greenock taste so fine).
- Leo |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2003 : 08:52:47
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| Lucky for us, Thurston Moore hasn't aged one year in Sonic Youth's 20 year existence |
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Orange Rolls Angels Spit
- FB Fan -
Sweden
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2003 : 13:06:55
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Both Thurston and Steve hasent changed a bit!
and their music hasnt changed either They still one of my favorites!
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2003 : 15:10:03
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i'm glad everyone is getting on now, i was a little worried during this thread. i'm getting into the yoof now, and although a lot of it could be called noise to some, to the untrained ear the pixies and others could be thought of as noise too(i think someone sed this already).
shit, a baby! sorry, i'm watchin the devils advocate and the baby just tore out her ovaries or something.
anyways,its cool that sonic youth are still all good-lookin when people of that age are usually sufferin from baldness(3/4s of pixies!) and fatness, and they're still not succumbin to makin 'nice' music. thats all i have to say at the moment, so bye.
if you say anything mean about kim, i'll kick ya in the shins! |
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2003 : 15:12:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Brackish Girl
i'm glad everyone is getting on now, i was a little worried during this thread. i'm getting into the yoof now, and although a lot of it could be called noise to some, to the untrained ear the pixies and others could be thought of as noise too(i think someone sed this already).
shit, a baby! sorry, i'm watchin the devils advocate and the baby just tore out her ovaries or something.
anyways,its cool that sonic youth are still all good-lookin when people of that age are usually sufferin from baldness(3/4s of pixies!) and fatness, and they're still not succumbin to makin 'nice' music. thats all i have to say at the moment, so bye.
oh yeah, which sonic youth forum are you on?
if you say anything mean about kim, i'll kick ya in the shins!
if you say anything mean about kim, i'll kick ya in the shins! |
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2003 : 15:14:53
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sorry bout that last one, cant get rid of it.
if you say anything mean about kim, i'll kick ya in the shins! |
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leokearse
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
203 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2003 : 18:25:59
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The baldness of the Pixies is just caused by the testosterone raging through their bodies as they kick out the jams. Sonic youth probably have full heads of hair because they don't ever go out in the sun, or eat food that didn't die of natural causes (Frank tried this too but got bored of waiting for steers to fall out of trees).
- Leo |
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Orange Rolls Angels Spit
- FB Fan -
Sweden
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2003 : 23:40:48
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Im gettin pretty fucking tired of you!
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PsychicTwin
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1772 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2003 : 23:57:28
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leo-
damn you. DAMN YOU. listen, i love the Pixies and i love Sonic Youth. so quit YER bULLSHIT, brutha. they both rule. so i don't want to hear this foolishness!!! enufff!!! enuffff!!!! |
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leokearse
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
203 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2003 : 04:37:04
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ooh-OOOH-oooh - don't spit the dummy ya humourless Swedish hairball - if you're tired of me feel free to go piss up a stick.
How on earth can people get offended by me suggesting that Sonic Youth might be vegetarians? It's not like I pinged a winnitt at your mother. You 'Youth fans need to lighten up a bit - try alternating the art wonk with Junior Senior or something.
- Leo |
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Orange Rolls Angels Spit
- FB Fan -
Sweden
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2003 : 11:18:29
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| Whatever Leo.... |
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Orange Rolls Angels Spit
- FB Fan -
Sweden
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2003 : 11:30:53
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im totaly agree with you -PsychicTwin
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leokearse
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
203 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2003 : 11:33:40
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Hey Orange, no one will ever understand your pain....
- Leo |
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Orange Rolls Angels Spit
- FB Fan -
Sweden
9 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2003 : 12:12:16
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| Leo let us just drop it okey... |
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leokearse
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
203 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2003 : 03:41:48
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Uh ok sure. Sorry if I offended you when I suggested that the 'Youth might be vegetarians. I'm sure they eat meat and all sorts. Wadanga!
In a meat product related incident, when FB+C played Leeds a couple of years ago, Frank mentioned how much he enjoyed Ginster's pasties when he toured the UK.
- Leo |
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Dinsdale Piranha
- FB Fan -
24 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2003 : 21:08:13
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I just think that a band named sonic YOUTH should actually be young. Not metaphorically young, but actually young. Toss in their natural proclivity to pretentiousness, and they ask to be called on it.
FB at 60 will be amoung the best rocknroll musicians around (if he's still doing it). However, I doubt he'll ever imply he's the voice of youth, which is what SY does whether they say so or not. They are irrelevant to most under 25 (which is the unfortunate cut-off, and certainly not in of itself a measure of worth).
Anyway, this is getting kinda silly.... |
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2003 : 12:04:23
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i dont know, i think its fun to read them argue! bait them on i say! sonic youth are great! sonic youth are shitty! cmon get riled up!
if you say anything mean about kim, i'll kick ya in the shins! |
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