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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
 Posted - 10/07/2002 : 22:18:46
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[quote]Originally posted by Thomas
we have a stalker, someone track that floopster 
alright, i can admit, i've been to a pretty ridiculous amount of shows this year.. but can you blame me? Southern California has had it too good.. all those shows back in March (and most of those shows were like 10 bucks) and even some recent FREE shows..
at what point does one cross the line between "big fan" and "stalker".. like, how many shows would you have to go to?
have you ever seen that skit on SNL called "stalk talk" with Christopher Walken? that's pretty funny.. anyway.. back to album cover talk.. |
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Leah
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
314 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 00:42:13
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I am stoked!!!
I do miss vinyl for the detail and those wonderful messages on the final rings, but hell, I own all the Pixies stuff on vinyl anyway.
I have a penchant for fold out CD inserts - and I love the stickers that came with Cult of Ray (nice touch!).
I would love to see a fold-out poster of the cover - or something like Pulp did with Different Class - you got a choice of postcards to insert in the front of the sleeve - I think perhaps one per song with lyrics on the back - maybe a para or web link to the history behind some of the legends, myths and historical figures would be cool.
You could keep the cost low by doing it all in black and white, so the quality is not SUCH an issue or maybe even make it 8/12/16 foldable poster, which you can choose to utilise or not.
And whilst I'm here is there a reliable point to buy merch. from? Another minor point is its a bitch to find FB & catholic posters!
(the last one I have is from the Cult of Ray tour...)
I am so glad to have initiated this thread, thank you o' captain!
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Zsolt G.
- FB Fan -
117 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 00:55:03
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| If I'm gonna have to read all those lyrics, a little nudity wouldn't hurt to soften the blow. |
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Ten Percenter
- FB Enquirer -
United Kingdom
1733 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 02:02:17
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Frankus,
The music matters the most. As you have probably gathered, the folks writing in to your forum would buy your cds if they were wrapped in rancid offal. (Although could you include the lyrics somewhere in the decaying matter?) Incidentally, please do complain if a comment in the forum pisses you off! |
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Jack
- FB Fan -
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 11:45:31
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I've always appreciated the album art, and like Mel, I am a little shocked to see some of the people on here would say that any of it sucks. Can't you just say what you like or don't like about it? Like Frank said, they had a huge budget back in the 4AD days. But isn't it nice to know that the man behind the music had some say in what went on the cover? And yes, Frank, we do like to be able to read the lyrics, so please keep publishing them. It's great to be able to pull the booklet out and follow along with the lyrics. Some more photos of the band would be nice though, especially photos from performances. It's great to see some shots of a band in action; it brings you even closer to the music.
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Omer
= Cult of Ray =
275 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 12:04:23
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Yeah, really cool to have Frank's contribution.
As for the albums, just for myself, I generally like them. I love the simpler approach of Black Letter Days and Dog in the Sand - a landscape shot is really suitable for the kind of music FB's releasing these days. I also LOVE having the lyrics. I'd say that with the internal decoration, less is more: the best ones were those from FB & tC and Dog in the Sand. |
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MIRV
- FB Fan -
178 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 12:06:20
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i agree with you 100%. don't feel bad because the artwork isn't good, the music speaks for itself. if someone doesn't buy your cd because it lacks good artwork then they aren't fans. like you said, wait til you get a shitload of money before pissing it away on artwork.
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Old Neptuna
- FB Fan -
Ireland
200 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 12:45:02
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Let the fans have a go at the artwork and let FB concentrate on putting out two albums per annum. Something like the competition Korn ran for Issues (but not so dodgy as a mutilated teddy bear on the cover  ).
I always liked Teenager cover best - just got hold of a promo poster of it from Australia (sad, sad). Oddballs is also 'nice'.
Mike |
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Thomas
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1615 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 13:42:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Neptuna
Something like the competition Korn ran for Issues (but not so dodgy as a mutilated teddy bear on the cover ).
Mike
Makes you you wonder were the winner got the idea from? 1997 1999
"It's the Nexus of the Crisis"
BÖCswu |
Edited by - Thomas on 10/08/2002 13:46:59 |
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Uncle Ratsy
- FB Fan -
1 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 14:25:39
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I'm supposing that this is a bit of an open letter to Frank:
The last two albums are great. But, like all of your work since leaving 4AD, the artwork has been less than inspiring. I understand that the generally feeling for these recent releases has been about momentum, quick and on the cheap, the freeing nature of not being bogged down in concepts or unnecessary details. But your albums used to be so cool looking. And there are a lot of other indie-type outfits that put out nice-looking albums.
A suggestion, which has more or less already been put forth - let someone do it. God knows, you've got a hell of a lot of fans that run in geeky and obsessive circles, the very same circles that contain most artists and graphics designers. Instead of having a contest, let people who are talented and admire you enough to work for free submit samples of their work.
In addition to album art being a reason a lot of people purchase music from unfamiliar artists, I think the goodness/crappyness of album art can really shape how one feels about the album. There's "Teenager" - simple, cool design, etc... and Cult has managed to all but dissapear from setlists since...well, a long time.
I hope I haven't offended you - I do think you're a genius and can't wait to see you when you come to NY. We just want to make sure you get the respect you deserve.
jason |
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matto
= Cult of Ray =
USA
951 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 14:46:26
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Skinny Puppy this year has held a similar contest - for fan submissions for artwork for 7 cds. They picked the best, changed what they wanted to (because that's one of the conditions), then gave a credit. While this cost some extra time (not much; the SP fan site accumulated and presented the artwork to the band), the quality was stellar. The band really appreciated the effort, and the fans appreciated the opportunity.
To agree with above opinion, the music is what matters.
To reiterate, though, new and random fans can be attracted to swank cover art. Art that, incidentally, is on par with the quality of music. FB+C records do deserve wicked good sleeves. Period. Like food: Presentation, Presentation, Presentation!
Lyrics presence is arbitrary. I don't think lack of printed words will sink ships.
spem in alium |
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FranknWeezer
= Cult of Ray =
USA
356 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 15:14:09
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Chuckus Blackus,
First off, with lyrics like you write...you've GOT to include them in the booklet. How in the world could we be expected to sing along if you don't clue us in? You write about some of the most obscure people, places, and things I've never imagined and could never fathom without you spelling them out in front of me. So I hope you keep printing lyrics...just not Teenager style (a little tough on the eyes).
With cover art, I must say it does matter a lot to me...so hire a local university art design major to do it for cheap (just make sure they're a fan and have listened to the cd first). Also, please do us the honor of including pictures of the band, even if only B&W, in the booklet...the DITS promo pictures on W.A.R.'s site were great...especially the one of you guys sitting at a table drinking and laughing. It's good to see the Baldheaded Buddah of Rock with a SMiLE on his face...ala Teenager.
Thanks for taking the time to interact with your posse,
FranknWeezer
...see profile and you may remember me and my 40 song request list from Oxford, MS 1/29/99 |
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MikeW
- FB Fan -
USA
214 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 16:13:50
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| I agree with Frank. I never really paid much attention to the artwork since Doolittle. But the lyrics do need to get printed. Otherwise some of us will still be singing " he was a good man, selling insurance". HAHA, that kills me. I like the cover of Black Letter Days, its the LA River! Cool b&w photography is fine. Another cool cover for a Frank record would be the water-shoot thats on the side of the I-5 in Sylmar! Or how about this, Frank & the Catholics getting on the subway in North Hollywood. Stuff like that would be cool. Or maybe FB & the Catholics at their favorite taco stand or burger joint! |
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zanni67
= Bio Elf =
643 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 16:57:58
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It would be nice to see what you did on DITS, i.e. putting down who played what on each song. I love knowing who plays lead, pedal steel, etc. I can pretty much hear the differences between Dave P and Rich, but sometimes you just want to be sure, ya know?? Also, as on DITS, there were some really different instruments used, and that is really nice to see printed, so that you can further listen to and pick up on the unique sounds.
-Zan
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 17:08:01
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeW
I agree with Frank. I never really paid much attention to the artwork since Doolittle. But the lyrics do need to get printed. Otherwise some of us will still be singing " he was a good man, selling insurance". HAHA, that kills me. I like the cover of Black Letter Days, its the LA River! Cool b&w photography is fine. Another cool cover for a Frank record would be the water-shoot thats on the side of the I-5 in Sylmar! Or how about this, Frank & the Catholics getting on the subway in North Hollywood. Stuff like that would be cool. Or maybe FB & the Catholics at their favorite taco stand or burger joint!
those are cool ideas. especially the favorite taco joint. (btw. Frank, if you don't know it already, check out La Tequiza on Figuroa a 30th.. i think you'll like it.. their carnitas is out of this world)..
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Thomas
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1615 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 18:34:35
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I was wondering when the talk would go taco.
"It's the Nexus of the Crisis"
BÖCswu |
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matto
= Cult of Ray =
USA
951 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 18:45:03
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Casa Vega.
spem in alium |
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Leah
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
314 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2002 : 05:52:52
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Everytime I hear kicked in the Taco or even just the word it reminds me of an old Emo Phillips skit:
I went into Gus's artificial organ and taco stand. I said "Give me a bladder por favor." The guy said "Is that to go?" I said, "Well what else would I want it for?" -- Emo Phillips
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2002 : 08:47:09
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haha..i always make that joke at my local vegan shop:
"Can i get a bran muffin?"
"Is that to go?"
"Well what else would i want it for??"
- Dave
"And the principal said to me 'Emo, Emo, Emo..' I said 'I'm the one in the middle you drunken slob!'" - Emo Phillips |
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Bohemoth
- FB Fan -
USA
246 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2002 : 14:29:09
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| i like seeing who plays what instrament on what songs, but it's fun to guess too. |
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zanni67
= Bio Elf =
643 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2002 : 17:38:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Bohemoth
i like seeing who plays what instrament on what songs, but it's fun to guess too.
Yes, it is fun to guess, you're right. It was cool seeing Dave P doing all of the lead work at the shows this Spring, after I assumed it was going to be Rich. But that's kind of a whole other topic.
-Zan
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DruggedBunny
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
395 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2002 : 23:12:59
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I think Devil's Workshop looks a bit cheap, but Black Letter Days looks great; I like the photos, the font, everything.
As for printed lyrics, I actually think people should take advantage of the 'net these days: don't print the lyrics in the album sleeve, because we follow along right away and there's no mystery (I still can't make out some of the Surfer Rosa lyrics, and that's good!); once you know all the words, there's a little less magic because you're no longer straining to figure out what's being said.
You could then just print the lyrics on a website (here, or on an 'official' site) after a few months, when we're all desperate to find out why on Earth Frank's singing about "selling insurance"... mystery/frustration, followed by sweet relief after an appropriate period of suspense :)
See ya,
--
James L Boyd.
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Edited by - DruggedBunny on 10/09/2002 23:14:00 |
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Visiting Sasquatch
= Cult of Ray =
USA
451 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2002 : 11:14:46
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| I motion that the previous post be stricken from the record, and that the consensus remain that the lyrics shall continue to be published in the liner notes of our beloved round discs as the "official" lyrics; and further, to avoid misinterpretations by well intended, but fallible individuals. Otherwise, how would we even begin to analyze the acrostics in various tracks? It would "take us forever". |
Edited by - Visiting Sasquatch on 10/10/2002 11:15:59 |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2002 : 13:19:38
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i second that motion.
i agree that the mystery element is cool and all.. but why make people go through all the work when they're going to find out anyway? also, this will prevent mis-interpretations and arguments about what is said..
plus, it's not like printing Frank's lyrics kills the mystery. his lyrics themselves are mysterious enough.. we may as well know what he's saying, to even begin to try and figure out what the song is 'saying'.. |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7441 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2002 : 00:52:47
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Or he could print the lyrics with blanks to fill in... Like "Your wine it tastes so sweet/But it's no _____________"...
Denis |
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Franny
- FB Fan -
3 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2002 : 13:00:02
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The answer is right in front of you, Frank.
Hire me.
I'll design your next CD cover.
I need the work...and I'm super cheap.
Franny |
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TOTIPOTENT
- Master of Differentiation -
USA
247 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2002 : 18:17:52
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeW
I agree with Frank. I never really paid much attention to the artwork since Doolittle. But the lyrics do need to get printed. Otherwise some of us will still be singing " he was a good man, selling insurance". HAHA, that kills me. I like the cover of Black Letter Days, its the LA River! Cool b&w photography is fine. Another cool cover for a Frank record would be the water-shoot thats on the side of the I-5 in Sylmar! Or how about this, Frank & the Catholics getting on the subway in North Hollywood. Stuff like that would be cool. Or maybe FB & the Catholics at their favorite taco stand or burger joint!
That is funny as hell...I did that also!
Differentiation at it's best... |
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mdisanto
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1140 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2002 : 21:33:32
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well you know we could all make up designs for future album covers to be viewed by the man himself, i know there are some talented people floating around here. best of all, we'd all do it simply for the chance to have frank say something nice about it. as far as other things go, pictures of the band would be nice. last time i saw frank live i had an outdated image of the rest of the catholics and dave was walking around infront of me and i didnt recognize him because he looked a lot different on the DITS cover art. oh well
-miked |
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johndietzel
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
464 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2002 : 14:45:57
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Two cents:
I'm in the camp with folks who think the post-major-label artwork generally looks cheapo. I think getting a solid, spiffy cover done would be worth the temporal and elbow-grease investment, by selling a few more (hundred or thousand) records. I don't see it as much consolation that people who might not buy a CD if it has crappy art aren't "true fans." I want Frank to be able to sell records and make some dough.
Concentrate on a quality cover and puke into the liner notes.
I think we kind of missed Frank's point though. I think he said it's more a problem of implementation of an idea that already exists. He doesn't have the means or trust to contract the job out. So yeah, maybe we could help, but more on the technical, implementation side. I'm confident with our collective expertise as well.
"Plain n' simp--the system's a pimp, but I refuse to be a ho."
Chuck D |
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OliverK
- FB Fan -
43 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2002 : 16:14:19
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Now that I've read Frank's response I like the Catholics covers more. If only because he and his wife do the design themselves.
I hope they continue and I hope they just do whatever they want. |
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johndietzel
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
464 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2002 : 18:03:22
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Status quo Joe.
"Plain n' simp--the system's a pimp, but I refuse to be a ho."
Chuck D |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2002 : 22:36:10
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You can't judge a frank black album by it's cover.
(but you can make fun of my stupid cliche that i twisted around)
Derek |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2002 : 12:22:46
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I really love the DW cover, typeface, color scheme, all of it. I mean the whole point of a cover is to sell the record REALLY, so it is very cool that FB can add something that he sees as meaningful even if he doesn't have the amount of time or energy to maybe do everything he wishes he could. I appreciate the fact that he cares at all, ya know?
girlie so groovy I want you to know... |
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Bartholomew
= Cult of Ray =
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2002 : 19:26:16
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| Teenager is easily the best. After that, I'd have to say Devil's Workshop...Cheesy font sure, but something about it works for me |
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johndietzel
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
464 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2002 : 19:36:43
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How did you end up in the coffee, anyway?
"Plain n' simp--the system's a pimp, but I refuse to be a ho."
Chuck D |
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