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DrWorm
- FB Fan -
81 Posts |
 Posted - 03/07/2003 : 19:57:33
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Frank is original. Billy is original. both of them write music because they love to. They aren't in to rape ppl in ticket sales or bitch and moan about ppl napster. For those reasons I have respect for both of them, and have purchased every single frank/ pumpkins albums I own (including the pixies) and that's comming from a guy with 63GB of MP3.
In my eyes, they are both musical masterminds, but completely different from one another. Not that I know either of them personaly but from the way they perform and record. Billy tends to be more of a perfectionist, egotistic and hard to get along with, leading to Darcy's leaving to persue an acting career (or tha'ts what i read anyway) and probably driving Chamberlin to heroin ...j/k. Frank giving me the impression that he just loves to play and he loves his fans on a more personal level. My favorite part of the Frank show i saw last night, was when he stopped playing after a song, turned to the Catholics and was talking amoungst themselves and then looked at the Audience (us) and said .. "what? .. were' trying to figure out what were doing after the show" then came back on with another rockin song.
To compare the two ppl in a way of "ripping off" is retarded. MC Hammer rips someone off, Milli Vannilli is a RIP-OFF.
frank black/ween/tmbg. . .
nuff said. |
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Mellzah
- FB Fan -
63 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2003 : 22:46:46
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These sort of 'rip-off' threads always end up hurting someone's feelings. I generally avoid 'em, just because tempers raise, etc etc.
But I think this needs to be said.
I'm a huge pixies fan. And I'm a huge smashing pumpkins fan. Billy Corgan sings the way he does because that's the way his voice is. Not because he's trying to rip off Frank Black.
Just because two people sing similarly doesn't mean that one person is ripping off another. They've both found a style that works for them. I think in terms of music, the only ripping off is when someone takes one song's chords/notes, and alters the tempo a little and calls it their own.
For instance, listen to Smashing Pumpkins' Snail (found on Gish, recorded in 1990) and then listen to Collective Soul's Shine (found on Hints, Allegations, and Things Left Unsaid, recorded in 1994). Just listen to the intros, even. The same? Oh yes.
So can we all agree that there's a difference between style and ripping off? I thought we could.  |
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parker_airspace
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
63 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2003 : 04:12:02
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i always think some of coldplay's stuff, esp. drums/bass lines seem to hark of fb/pixies material...then again coldplay is mostly shite!
one of the nicest little bits of plagarism/tribute i've heard is in bloodhound gang's "roof is on fire" with a twist on monkey's gone to heaven.
- was smashed head on by a giant truck :( - Chris |
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astroman
- FB Fan -
Portugal
84 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2003 : 05:04:57
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| say what...!!! Billy Corgan īs voice is completelly different of FB...first time I heard that |
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2003 : 11:48:20
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that rob levitt guy is funny. never heard him, but that was funny. adore IS the best sp album.
if you say anything mean about kim, i'll kick ya in the shins! |
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LemurSkin
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2003 : 11:13:37
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| Loads of veruca Salt songs sound like the Pixies. Someone already mentioned 'number 1 blind', but loads of others use total Kim deal basslines. Check 'Seether' or 'Volcano girls' for examples. Oh and I ain't bithcing either, i totally love that band...but this just might be why. |
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marcusb
= Cult of Ray =
USA
308 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2003 : 06:03:55
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| Weezer's been playing to the tune of the Pixies for a while.. |
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Doog
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1220 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2003 : 14:18:37
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| Is it just me, or do Weezer sound absolutely nothing like the Pixies, save for The Sweater Song sounding a little bit like I Bleed? |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2003 : 14:21:00
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I'm kinda with you Doog,
They did a cover of Cecilia Ann right? |
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PsychicTwin
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1772 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2003 : 14:22:09
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Nah, I think there are definite similarities chord progression-wise between Pixies and Weezer. not so much that I would call it a "rip-off", but the influence is definitely there.
Pinkerton is an album where it stands out...."tired of sex" and "pink triangle" come to mind. you guitar players out there might notice a similarity between those chord progressions and that of a song like "debaser". the similarities are not blatant or obvious, but a guitar player could plausibly pick em out, i think. |
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samuel
- FB Fan -
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2003 : 15:29:34
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boo hoo hall and all the fallen balls
rip me off and shit like a dick |
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PsychicTwin
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1772 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2003 : 15:31:39
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| what in god's name is the meaning of that? |
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Sheamus
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
345 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2003 : 22:38:37
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Call me crazy, but the intro to "Places Named After Numbers" sounds totally ripped out of a section of "The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past" on the SNES.
If this is true though, I'd think that Frank is even cooler than I do now :) Which is pretty cool. |
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Mr Pixies
- FB Fan -
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2003 : 19:05:33
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Some of Smash Mouth's When the Morning Comes sounds like La La Love You.
I'm entertained, but I'd rather be enlightened. |
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PsychicTwin
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1772 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2003 : 21:04:56
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| now what in god's name are you listening to Smash Mouth for? |
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spacerock
- FB Fan -
Vanuatu
23 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2003 : 21:33:20
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Modest Mouse.
love them...but then again...that's why. |
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killmocker
- FB Fan -
Japan
41 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2003 : 21:24:24
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We all know there are a lot of groups that ripped off the Pixies. Influenced is a nicer way of putting it, since I enjoy listening to many of these groups. The list is large-Beck,Blur,Radiohead,Weezer,Pavement,Everclear,Nirvana,Counting Crows,Smashing Pumpkins and so on...
The one Pixies song that stands out as being heard the most in others' works is Wave of Mutilation. Here are some instances I hear it:
Bush-Swallowed. During the chorus, when Gavin is singing "Swallowed" the chord structure played is EXACTLY like in Wave of Mutilation. (Only it's in a higher key)
Breeders-No Aloha. The guitar bit throughout most of the song sounds not exactly the same but very close.
Everclear-Father of Mine. Same idea as the others.
blah blah blah you get the picture |
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2003 : 14:14:30
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everclear? counting crows? are these bands meant to be good? i thought they were there to be annoying.
if anyone says anything negative about anybody i admire, i'll kick 'em in the taco.
and if all you see is violence, i'll make a plea, yeah, in my defence. |
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PsychicTwin
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1772 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2003 : 14:29:50
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Counting Crows are simply mediocre...a lukewarm rock band that leaves me feeling nothing really.
And Everclear suck horrid ass. |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2003 : 14:53:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Doog
Is it just me, or do Weezer sound absolutely nothing like the Pixies, save for The Sweater Song sounding a little bit like I Bleed?
The chord progression of "Say It Ain't So" is identical to the chord progression of "Where is My Mind". The latter starts on the E, the former on the C#m. Other than that, exactly the same. |
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Sheamus
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
345 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2003 : 21:43:34
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| "Say it Ain't So" also reminds me a bit of "Hey" |
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blackpurse
= Cult of Ray =
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2003 : 08:32:31
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| Actually, a good portion of the time the "ripoffs" are bands that are about the same age as the members of the Pixies and started playing their instruments at around the same time as well. As far as any "rip offs" are concenned, I usually give them the benefit of the dought that naturally, growning up in the same timeframe and cultural context, there's bound to be similarities in the end product since there are common influences. There's blatant rip-offs of any kind of music. But like any invention it's really "Who got to the patent office first" and then "who marketed it better" that determines who gets the credit. |
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killmocker
- FB Fan -
Japan
41 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2003 : 17:07:33
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REPLY TO:
The chord progression of "Say It Ain't So" is identical to the chord progression of "Where is My Mind". The latter starts on the E, the former on the C#m. Other than that, exactly the same.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I noticed that too. Though a rip-off Say it Ain't So is a pretty cool song |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2003 : 21:22:17
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When writing a song, sometimes the next note/chord is just given to you... it could only be one thing, and that's that. I don't mean that literally, but you hit a chord or note and it feel right, even... familiar. I could see having heard a song once or twice (or even a lot, but in a distant time), and then happening to write a similar tune because subconsciously, you hear that song or chord coming next and write it that way, though consciously you have no idea that you're ripping something off. Obviously, this is every true artist's nightmare, but the best you can do is be vigilant if you think it might sound like something and don't know what.
That said, there are a LOT of people out there who have made a living intentionally lifting elements from different songs/artists. In fact, there's a group I know that lives a few doors (three) down from me... |
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vamos
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2003 : 11:30:52
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These rock bands you speak of are merely reflections of western decadence.
sponsor my silence |
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Mr Grieves
- FB Fan -
88 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2003 : 04:10:17
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quote:
Originally posted by PsychicTwin
Counting Crows are simply mediocre...a lukewarm rock band that leaves me feeling nothing really.
And Everclear suck horrid ass.
I'd pretty much go along with that. Sadly, one of my best mates is a big Everclear fan. He likes Smash Mouth too. Dear, dear.
As for the Weezer argument, I can see where you're coming from on Pinkerton (have Tired Of Sex and Bone Machine ever been seen in the same room??), but not really apart from that.
They got a ranch they call No. 51! |
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blackpurse
= Cult of Ray =
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2003 : 04:59:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Grieves
quote:
Originally posted by PsychicTwin
Counting Crows are simply mediocre...a lukewarm rock band that leaves me feeling nothing really.
And Everclear suck horrid ass.
I'd pretty much go along with that. Sadly, one of my best mates is a big Everclear fan. He likes Smash Mouth too. Dear, dear.
As for the Weezer argument, I can see where you're coming from on Pinkerton (have Tired Of Sex and Bone Machine ever been seen in the same room??), but not really apart from that.
They got a ranch they call No. 51!
OK, another one of my moment memories. I remember when CC were announced that they were opening for a Rolling Stones tour and the press conference with Mick and Keith that announced this. The video/sound bite that they showed on MTV was Mick going "We're announcing out [umpteenth, cant really remember] tour this summer with supporting act The (sic) Counting Crows" -- as if Mick had never heard of them and could really give a shit who they were, face it, they're the Rolling Fucking Stones and that's all you really need to know! That pretty much said it all for me. |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2003 : 13:31:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
When writing a song, sometimes the next note/chord is just given to you... it could only be one thing, and that's that. I don't mean that literally, but you hit a chord or note and it feel right, even... familiar. I could see having heard a song once or twice (or even a lot, but in a distant time), and then happening to write a similar tune because subconsciously, you hear that song or chord coming next and write it that way, though consciously you have no idea that you're ripping something off. Obviously, this is every true artist's nightmare, but the best you can do is be vigilant if you think it might sound like something and don't know what.
Today I bought Weezer's first album, got picked up from the highstreet by my mum and played the first couple of tracks of it in the car (it's only about a 5 minute journey). When I got home I went to my room and picked up my guitar and starting making up stuff for fun. And then I found something I thought sounded really good to me; chords being C G A F. But it just sounded too familiar, I'm sure I was ripping something off. It wasn't until about an hour later when I started playing the Weezer CD I realised it was more or less the chords for the first track! I honestly had no idea! I felt kinda sad cos I thought I was on to something good, lol.
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Edited by - PixieSteve on 06/05/2003 13:32:38 |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2003 : 18:54:34
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The first Spoon album, Telephono.
If you want a 5th (6th, whatever) Pixies album, pick that one up. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2003 : 23:44:39
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Yeah, I hear 'ya PixieSteve. We were jamming the other night on a light little bouncy song called, tentatively at least, "At The Harbour", and I thought I'd come up with a pretty cool little melody on the bagpipe for it. Until I continued playing and it evolved into Yellow Submarine. Damn those Beatles.
Still, kinda' ironic that both songs are seafaring-related, though aside from my blatantly ripped-off melody, they don't sound the same at all. |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2003 : 04:08:14
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| better than ezra, veruca salt, and probably many other crappy ass bands have all stolen the exact formulas of many pixies songs |
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Pootie Tang
- FB Fan -
Lesotho
8 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2003 : 12:17:24
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I am going to offer some mental cud for you all to chew on. Do you think the Violent Femmes (most specifically the seminal first album from 1983) had an influence on the Pixies sound, or in the very least, might have beat them to the punch with the quiet/loud dynamic? As well, they are pretty damn "quirky" and witty much like the Pixies...I am listening to the song "Never Tell" right now, which has many of the same qualities of the College/"Alternative" music of the 80's into the 90's...Gordon Gano's vocal cadence is even similar to Frank's, or vise-versa. Has this been mentioned before? I pledge my allegiance to the Pixies for sure, although, upon listening to the Femmes again after quite a few years, they are also truly the shit. No disrespect Frank, and in fact, you may also have praise for the Femmes...
It's all about da ney no, my deybeh! |
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Pootie Tang
- FB Fan -
Lesotho
8 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2003 : 12:23:24
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and I know this can lead to the game, "Well, so-n-so came before them even!" and so on and so on, going back to the Velvet Underground and countless other bands that I've never heard of before, but I pose the last question with comtemporaries in mind...are there other bands from the post-punk era that may have had a hand in preparing us for the Pixies?
It's all about da ney no, my deybeh! |
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Pootie Tang
- FB Fan -
Lesotho
8 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2003 : 12:40:41
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okay...i am amped from a Rock Star so, bear with me...seems the Femmes thing is old news...here is the quote from a previous post:
Black, you gradually realize, is a master of imagemaking, and the aura of intrigue he's built around himself is a careful construction. When, as a college sophomore, he heard the Violent Femmes, he further refined the identity he'd bring to the job of leading the Pixies.
"I got the slightly nerdy, slightly [angry], slightly sexually frustrated vibe from him," Black says of Femmes lead singer Gordon Gano, as "Gone Daddy Gone," a track from the band's debut album, plays. "This was a very influential band for me. It's musical, it's deadpan, it's a little bit down, it's not necessarily loud, and it's got folkie elements, which I like."
It's dark out by the time the Femmes are done harmonizing that "love is gone, yeah, it's gone daddy gone." Talk turns to the off-Broadway musical about Black's life. If it happens, it is certain to restoke talk of Black's role in the creation of alternative rock. He sounds a little ambivalent about getting that kind of credit.
"I don't know that anyone deserves credit, really. I mean, you get what you get." Black might prefer life as a barely aboveground sensation, which is what he was at 21, but he isn't complaining.
here is the post link post by the Swimmer:
http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=1153
still, discuss if you want...i was supposed to use all this caffeinated engery for work! but, fuck it, this is work!
It's all about da ney no, my deybeh! |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2003 : 21:46:57
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I agree with Pootie tang.This is becoming a who came first.For sure Frank Black listened a lot to the Violent Femmes before starting the Pixies but did he rip them off?The beattles influenced almost every rock band(even Ozzy said once that they were among his favourites)but can you consider any modern rock band a mere clone of the beattles?Basically pop-rock is so simple to play so,being the cords only 6,it's normal that you get similarities among different groups.
The difference between a good artist and a bad one is how they get to use their musical input in order to create something original or at least honest.
Take the example of Nirvana:Cobain admitted that he wrote "smells like..."trying to rip off the pixies and that he got Steve Albini as a prducer because he liked the surfer rosa sound but it don't seems to me that Nevermind is the sequel to Doolittle,or that Bleach has something to do with Trompe le Monde...
www.munchienandalusia.too.it |
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