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 Did The Catholics end acrimoniously?
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ricj
- FB Fan -

62 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2020 :  12:58:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Back in 2003 when The Catholics played their last gig and we all looked forward to the forthcoming Pixies reunion, I fully expected another Catholics album and/or tour in a couple of years - especially when it became clear that there was going to be no new Pixies album in the 00's. But who'd have thought back then, that we'd potentially never see them onstage or hear from them again...

Since then, I've always wondered why, whenever Charles returned to solo work (both live and on record) that he chose to work with a completely different set of musicians? I always assumed that it wasn't planned for the Catholics to end and wonder if they knew during that last gig at Shepherds Bush that it'd be the last time they'd share a stage together? It just seems so strange for FB to make all those incredible albums with The Catholics and then never work with those people again.

Like most others on here, I'd give anything to see them do something again but since the complete lack of any interest during the release period of the Catholics box set, it seems now that we really might never hear from them again... Truly a massive shame.

Edited by - ricj on 11/11/2020 13:00:16

Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =

Canada
11613 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2020 :  14:04:11  Show Profile  Visit Cult_Of_Frank's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't believe there is any acrimony or at least it wasn't something shared. If I recall, around the time of Show Me Your Tears, there were just a lot of things coming up in pretty much every Catholic's personal lives that just made it time to say enough. Charles was separated from his wife, I believe it was Dave P that just had his first child, things like that. They were all exhausted from the grueling tours and schlepping their own equipment. And I think there was a feeling, though this was never stated, just my feeling, that the Catholics had gone as far as they were going to go, that if they continued, this was their life, being their own roadies, playing small-to-medium clubs and being on the road or studio (or both) most of the time. All those things that we loved about them - the intimate venues and tight, no-setlist, live to two-track performance standards - made it a hard go.

As well, in FB.Net podcast 20, Charles recounted a story about Dave P playing with Robert Pollard of Guided By Voices and so certainly they at least are still friendly. That was recorded on the FMRM tour, so post Catholics. I do think but can't produce a specific example that there have been some one-off collaborations with various Catholics since SMYT.




"If we hit this bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
645 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2020 :  00:02:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If I am not mistaken, I believe Lyle Workman was asked by FBF to handle arranging the charts for the Nashville session musicians to use during the fast-paced, marathon sessions for what became HONEYCOMB and FMRM, which he did.

Plus, if you count EDF as a Catholic (he played on at least two of their albums, produced some of the sessions and toured a bit with the band), he has continued to work with FBF both live and in the studio ever since...

--

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
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ricj
- FB Fan -

62 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2020 :  01:23:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the replies, good to see that people do still post on here!

I guess in a nutshell, I just find it a bit strange that even after a few years away from each other, there seemed to be a conscious decision to not work with that band again. Especially since there was obviously a ridiculous level of chemistry there between them in the years up to 2003. I just figured there must have been a reason on Charles' part to not make another Catholics album (or tour). Even in his final, super prolific, solo period between Bluefinger and Nonstoperotik.
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pixie punk
> Teenager of the Year <

2878 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2020 :  09:36:01  Show Profile  Visit pixie punk's Homepage  Reply with Quote
https://www.nme.com/news/music/pixies-193-1202847

PUERTO RICO PIXIE
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2249 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2020 :  12:34:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pixie punk

https://www.nme.com/news/music/pixies-193-1202847

PUERTO RICO PIXIE



I remember reading this article when it came out. It's as sad now as it was then. Sadder actually.

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ricj
- FB Fan -

62 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2020 :  12:52:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Who'd have thought pre-2004 that I'd be desperately missing and wishing for FB solo output over another Pixies album...!
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Stevio10
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
885 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2020 :  23:04:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
According to discogs Dave Philips and Rich Gilbert did play some part on Fast Man Raider Man.

https://www.discogs.com/Frank-Black-Fast-Man-Raider-Man/master/265326

I believe that only leaves Dave and Scott that he hasn't worked with in some way since the end of the Catholics.

Though I probably wouldn't read too much into that as they have been busy with Polaris and Miracle Legion reunions with FB ally Mark Mulcahy.

I saw them on that 2003 tour, didn't think that would be their last tour.
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =

Canada
663 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2020 :  11:38:00  Show Profile  Click to see Brank_Flack's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I'm grateful for the Catholics material, but I think they probably reached their logical conclusion with their great run of alt-country albums from the early 2000s. Post 2007 Charles became more interested in revisiting the Black Francis style, which yielded some great results like Bluefinger, SVN FNGRS and the Golem. Now that the Pixies are recording again, have clicked into gear with Beneath the Eyrie, can actually make considerable money off touring, and have healthy inter-band dynamics with the addition of Paz, it makes both more commercial and artistic sense to dedicate himself fully to the Pixies. As much as I love the 2000s Catholics, you can't do much better than Charles + Joey.


Edited by - Brank_Flack on 11/13/2020 11:38:38
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two reelers
= Cult of Ray =

Austria
973 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2020 :  20:17:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
At the occasion of the Catholics box set, Frank mentioned that they were talking about a possible Catholics tour/concert. Unfortunately, that did not materialize.

I think Dave P played somewhat recently (few years) live with Frank, or did some recording with him.

I joined the cult of Souled American / 'cause they are a damn' fine band
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ricj
- FB Fan -

62 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2020 :  02:07:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I absolutely LOVED Bluefinger, SVN FNGRS, Golem and Nonstoperotik and I also loved Indie Cindy but for some reason Head Carrier and Beneath the Eyrie didn't do all that much for me. I always thought that a lot of the stuff on Indie Cindy was probably sitting there waiting to become a BF solo album (until Kim left and a new Pixies album became a possibility) whereas HC and BTE were written as Pixies records. Not sure what that says about my tastes but it tells me that for whatever reasons, I prefer Charles' solo material over the 'new' Pixies material. And that just adds to my sadness that there will be no more solo material...!
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
267 Posts

Posted - 11/15/2020 :  20:30:50  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ricj

I always thought that a lot of the stuff on Indie Cindy was probably sitting there waiting to become a BF solo album (until Kim left and a new Pixies album became a possibility) whereas HC and BTE were written as Pixies records.




So strange. I think the exact opposite. Indie Cindy to me seems obviously like Frank intentionally writing in the Pixies style, and HC and BTE sound like Catholics albums to me for the most part, like he said to hell with forcing the Pixies style and just went back to his natural songwriting inclinations that he had come to after a few decades.

Indie Cindy has songs that could never be Catholics or even BF solo songs. What Goes Boom, Bagboy, Magdalena, Blue Eyed Hexe, these all sound like Pixies songs (or warped versions of Pixies songs to me.) Frank screaming, sing-talking the highly sexually charged surreal lyrics. He stopped writing those kinds of lyrics for the most part in his solo career and it's a clear conscious return to that.

Head Carrier and Beneath The Eyrie for the most part sound like Catholics albums to me. The title track Head Carrier has that country Catholics chorus ("I'm goin' down the drain...") Might As Well Be Gone is totally a Catholics song in spirit. Even Talent seems more like one of those fun Catholics tunes than a Pixies tune. Bel Espirit, the road traveling Um Chagga Lagga, these also really feel like Catholics to me.

On Beneath The Eyrie, I mean to me the whole thing sounds like the Catholics. Graveyard Hill, Catfish Kate, This Is My Fate, Silver Bullet...I mean damn these are Catholics songs. Daniel Boone and Death Horizon remind me of the beautiful way many Catholics albums end, with this kind of country death feel.

Even the way Frank sings...on Indie he sounds like that young Pixies Frank on a lot of songs (really What Goes Boom)...on the other two albums he sounds more comfortable doing his more natural, mature and gruff relaxed singing voice. No higher pitched yelling. I'm speaking generally.

Even the production styles...Indie sounds more huge and surprising like a Pixies album, and the other two have a more straight Catholics-style stripped down production (maybe BTE is kind of a blend of those two approaches.)

I'm aware I'm in an insane minority here. All the reviews of these albums summed up to "Indie Cindy isn't the Pixies! But THEY ARE BACK WITH HEAD CARRIER / BENEATH THE EYRIE!" It was always completely crazy to me that this was the narrative. I don't understand what people are hearing.

Edited by - Troubles A Foot on 11/16/2020 09:06:59
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ricj
- FB Fan -

62 Posts

Posted - 11/17/2020 :  08:13:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree with a lot of what you said and i don't necessarily think that all the songs on Indie Cindy sound like solo material but on the last BF solo album (Nonstoperotik) it felt like he was flirting with a lot of new (for him at least) styles of writing and to me at least, when I first heard the new Pixies stuff (with the exception of Bagboy), I thought it sounded more like solo material than Pixies material. This is total speculation on my part but I got the feeling that Bagboy was definitely written in a Pixies style as I have a feeling it may have been worked up with Kim in the (abortive) sessions leading up to her departure (I was sure at first that they were her backing vocals). When the first EP came out though, I remember thinking that it sounded a lot more like BF solo material than Pixies (not a bad thing at all for me). The other part of my speculation is that he possibly used a mixture of fully formed songs he had in reserve and then wrote new songs in a more deliberate Pixes style to fill out the EP's. I'm sure I remember a couple of songs from IC being performed at solo shows quite a while before the news about Kim's departure and the new Pixies recordings.
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Niue
7389 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2020 :  09:54:06  Show Profile  Visit vilainde's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by two reelers
I think Dave P played somewhat recently (few years) live with Frank, or did some recording with him.




Dave Philips plays on Nonstoperotik
https://www.discogs.com/Black-Francis-Nonstoperotik/release/2614047


Denis
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Mac E. Doobage
= Cult of Ray =

495 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2020 :  09:07:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I miss seeing them and wish they at least had done a few nights in Boston or NY. Also, would love to have some of thise live shows that were released through the on demand cd service were remastered and reissued.

Edited by - Mac E. Doobage on 11/19/2020 09:09:10
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