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Alpha Soixante
- FB Fan -
Canada
129 Posts |
 Posted - 09/19/2004 : 11:51:32
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You already blew it: You didn't vote last time, or voted for Nader or Bush, and now you're gonna get drafted. There's no way around it now, the draft is almost a certainty.
You're hearing about Reserve and National Guard units being called up, and about people not allowed to leave the military even though their term is up. Have you thought about what this means to you? You KNOW this means they're having trouble finding enough soldiers to go to Iraq, right? Of course Bush doesn’t want to start the draft BEFORE the election. Duh! But what do you think happens the day AFTER the election?
I repeat, they are having trouble finding enough soldiers to go to Iraq. Think about it. Right, you're gonna get drafted.
Or, maybe you think they can't do that? Maybe you think the draft doesn't happen in America. Maybe you think they can't just grab your ass up off the street, stick a rifle in your hands and send you off to war? Of course not, that NEVER happens. Right.
WAR. Yes, that word. The word you have been hearing from Bush’s lips for months now. "I'm a WAR president", he says. Well, what did you think war MEANS? Somebody ELSE’S war? Did you think it means you get to watch a TV show with planes and stuff?
No, WAR means young people getting grabbed up off the street and sent off to fight. That. Is. What. War. Is.
And, by the way, women and students are NOT going to be exempt this time. Maybe not even rich kids. ONLY the children of politicians will be exempt. THIS TIME.
So, are you finally ready to do something about it THIS TIME? Which candidate do you think is more likely to grab your ass off the street and send it to Iraq? Which candidate do you think is more likely to start a war with Iran, or Syria, or maybe even North Korea? Like Bush says, we're at war, and that's the issue in this election. Well, THAT’S what you should be thinking about THIS TIME.
So vote. THIS TIME.
http://blatanttruth.org/draft.php
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/171522_draft01.html
Know any U.S. men or women under 35 who are a) voting Bush, b) voting Nader, or c) not voting? Send them a copy, please.
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2004 : 12:31:06
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jesus christ. hey idiots, stop posting shit you get in your fucking e-mail.
someone delete this thread! |
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ShakeyShake
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1058 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2004 : 13:16:06
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Were you abused as a child Ebb?I think you need a hug.
"I joined the Cult of this guy / 'cause they took my other picture away |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2004 : 13:51:22
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no i need stupid cuntrags to stop posting everything that appears in their inbox. |
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the tolerant
= Cult of Ray =
298 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2004 : 13:58:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
cuntrags
hey! thats a new one. never heard that word before  |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2004 : 14:27:14
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| I've got exciting news about Viagra and an offer from an undisclosed Prince in Nigeria, but I can't disclose any information to you, or anybody. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2004 : 14:28:59
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Hey everybody! Just listen to Al Jolson, and you'll be feeling sun-sun-shiney again!
Life is not a highway strewn with flowers,
Still it holds a goodly share of bliss,
When the sun gives way to April showers,
Here is the point you should never miss.
Though April showers may come your way,
They bring the flowers that bloom in May.
So if it's raining, have no regrets,
Because it isn't raining rain, you know, (It's raining violets,)
And where you see clouds upon the hills,
You soon will see crowds of daffodils,
So keep on looking for a blue bird, And list'ning for his song,
Whenever April showers come along.
And where you see clouds upon the hills,
You soon will see crowds of daffodils,
So keep on looking for a blue bird, And list'ning for his song,
Whenever April showers come along.
You buttered your bread, now lie in it. |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2004 : 14:36:41
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| I disagree with that on so many levels. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2004 : 14:41:00
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Oh. So then you think that life is a highway strewn with flowers?
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
You buttered your bread, now lie in it. |
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dogjones
- FB Fan -
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2004 : 15:40:57
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with the preface that im a hardcore liberal...check it...
lets get to reality here, bush/cheney is all about money. period. dems/repub are all about money...arnold pushed into running in cali though he doesnt share some of the social issues with the repub party was nothing more than money based...arnold doesnt represent many republican social values, but he's ellectable.
all that and other shit rolled into one = draft means political suicide.
the money is more important than the issues at hand...3/4 of americans and almost all law enforcement agencies are for the automatic gun ban staying in place...maybe they should get a bigger lobby with more money, cuz that's what's important cuz that's who was listened to.
draft = political suicide = hardcore chance it wont happen...besides, a common complaint aobut vietnam draftees was they were put into situations that some didnt wanna be in and it didn't really help morale or the job at hand. |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2004 : 16:41:30
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you're an idiot to even entertain this stupidity, dogjones.
HAY GUYS I GOT AN EMAI LSAYING GOD KILLS FAGS WITH AIDS!!! LETS DISCUSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2004 : 17:04:42
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Quit trolling Ebb. Read the FAQ and keep the discussion to the realm of intellectual debate rather than personal attacks.
You buttered your bread, now lie in it. |
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dogjones
- FB Fan -
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2004 : 17:13:54
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WASHINGTON (AP) — Most U.S. high-school students believe the government will restart the military draft during their lifetimes, and shrinking numbers are optimistic about the country's future, a new poll finds.
Among teenagers, 55% say young Americans will be required to serve in the military, up from 45% last year, according to "The State of Our Nation's Youth," an annual survey by the Horatio Alger Association.
................
we can argue poll validity all day long, but i can just spout poll after poll that points to the fact if i'm an idiot to address it, there's millions of people who actually have a view on it.
...besides i was just trying to calm some fear and let people think about another view |
Edited by - dogjones on 09/19/2004 17:16:37 |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2004 : 23:18:11
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apl4eris: there is no intellectual debate to be had in this thread.
dogjones: what the fuck does what 55% of them think have to do with reality? did you know 55% of them think the sun revolves around the earth? what people think means nothing. the fact is that there will not be a draft for iraq. i'd say there will never be another draft but if there were a global scale war then there probably would be. |
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spunXtain
= Cult of Ray =
USA
377 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 00:05:03
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in today's more sophisticated society, a draft doesn't make sense. as someone mentioned, it's political suicide, and anyone who is drafted does NOT want to be there, therefore will not be giving 100% effort. That's like having the janitor at a company pitch sales cuz the main guy called in sick.
I can see a draft if OUR country was invaded, hell i'd imagine civilians would fight of their own free will in that situation.
When it comes down to it though, if there is a draft, they can lock my ass up before I go to die for Bush and his quest for "daddy's revenge".
Got coffee, got donuts, got wasted.. |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 00:18:13
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it would be political suicide if he had another election to worry about. But why should he worry? Look at what he's gotten away with already.
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 01:10:58
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quote:
did you know 55% of them think the sun revolves around the earth?
That is actually pretty smart, you should base most of your opinions on your own observation. I suspect that is what 55% of them are doing.
It took many very intelligent people an awfully long time to prove the Earth rotates. I still find it rather contentious.
If a larger percent was spent on education, the kids might not think that way. |
Edited by - hammerhands on 09/20/2004 01:17:09 |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 01:30:11
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People are still going on about this?
Some education for some of you folks: This bill to bring back the draft was introduced by a Democrat, Charles Rangel. It's not Bush who got the ball rolling. This is easy to look up. Just plug "draft" and "Charles Rangel" into the search engine of your choice.
This legislation was introduced largely as a protest against the then-impending war in Iraq. Much of the military is made up of people from poor to lower middle class backgrounds. Taking out some of the previous exemptions to the draft (like college enrollment) is a way of saying that the upper classes would be subject to it, as well. The intent was that this would get people to reconsider going to war.
And further, there's a lot of people who's neck would be on the line if a draft did happen. Maybe Bush -- should he win in November -- wouldn't have another election to worry about, but the members of Congress who vote in favor of the draft DO. |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
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Alpha Soixante
- FB Fan -
Canada
129 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 07:08:29
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quote:
you're an idiot to even entertain this stupidity
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that arguments such as the above are not worth entertaining. If that's the best you can do, Ebb, I'm going to go out on another limb and say that your opinions are not worth entertaining.
Frankly, I don't know how likely a new draft is, but I do think it's possible. It happened in 1863, 1917, and from 1940-1973 (if you're counting, that's 35 out of 100 years in the 20th century). Somehow the "political suicide" problem did not prevent this. For the record, it's always been unpopular. In the Civil War, it caused riots. You'll also note that the draft has been operational in every major war: the Civil War, WW1, WW2, Korea and Vietnam.
The arguments that no politician would dare pass it, and that it would never be necessary, and that a conscription army is inferior to a volunteer army are suggestive but not decisive. Why then haven't we abolished the Selective Service? If we keep it around just in case, (just in case of an "impossible" "never going to happen" "ridiculous" eventuality), why not end the registration part? If we really don't foresee ever using it, why are states bothering to, for the first time, make SSS registration a requirement for a driver's license? Why bother, for the first time, making arrangements with the government of Canada to prevent draft-dodging? Why look for SSS board members to decide deferments if there are not, and will never be, any work for them to do?
As for the argument that SSS as a government agency is _always_ making contingency plans, so the current one is nothing new, some disagree:
"This is significant," said Ned Lebow, a presidential scholar at Dartmouth College in New Hampshire and former professor of strategy at the National War College in Washington. "What the department of defence is doing is creating the infrastructure to make the draft a viable option should the administration wish to go this route." He said it is the first public call to reconstitute draft boards since the compulsory draft was abolished in 1973.
Finally, I've encountered some arguments that the draft will never be necessary. But it's already clear that supply is a problem--that's why we're relocating personnel from Europe and South Korea (!) to the Middle East. That's why the freaking National Guard and Reserves make up almost HALF of the forces in Iraq. And note that morale in our voluntary Army is already very low:
"Some 60,000 of the 130,000 US soldiers in Iraq are members of the National Guard or the reserves. An opinion poll last month in the Pentagon-funded Stars and Stripes newspaper, showed 49% threatening not to re-enlist."
We're not getting out of Iraq any time soon. Throw in a war with Iran, and they may not have any choice but to reinstate the draft, even if they don't want to. |
Edited by - Alpha Soixante on 09/20/2004 07:09:42 |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 07:16:13
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| wow that is really amazing. you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about yet you are convinced that you do. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 07:42:31
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Ebb, if you've got nothing to contribute to the discussion or think there's no discussion to be had, what precisely are you doing here? So far the only thing you've had to say that doesn't involve slagging someone for either believing there could be a draft or posting a chain letter (which is hardly an epidemic at this point) is this:
quote:
what the fuck does what 55% of them think have to do with reality? did you know 55% of them think the sun revolves around the earth? what people think means nothing. the fact is that there will not be a draft for iraq. i'd say there will never be another draft but if there were a global scale war then there probably would be.
Maybe there will be a draft, maybe there won't. There won't be one before the election, I agree, but what happens when Iran is a threat to the US and needs to be dealt with? Or N. Korea? Or whomever the US is after next in their crusade?
I think there's a lot of evidence that a draft is at the very least being considered, and not much other than political speculation that its not. Whether it's Bush or a Republican congress member or a Democrat proposing it hardly matters. What does matter is which leader is going to continue pushing a war agenda and thereby leaving the US in the position where a draft is inevitable.
 "Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 08:31:25
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Why do you guys always want to talk about such depressing subjects?
Let's talk about fun things this week
I'm eating "Gorrilla Crunch" right now. It's delicious!
Remember Babba Looie? He talked funny.
What's with this guy?
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 08:46:48
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those countries wouldn't be threats if we didn't go around acting like dickheads and taking over a country because we want better access to their oil supplies!
the reason i'm still in this thread is the same reason you yell "OH SHIT!" when you see two cars about to smash into each other. this thread is a car wreck happening over and over again where totally uninformed people talk out of their asses.
THERE IS ZERO CHANCE OF A DRAFT. |
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KimStanleyRobinson
* Dog in the Sand *
1972 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 09:01:23
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Hunter S. Thompson agrees.
The Bushies don't want the draft because it will introduce an undersirable element into the military.
MB is "Marty Beckerman".
http://www.martybeckerman.com/hunter.html
MB: The Bush family history is terrifying. They've been in business with Hitler, Saddam, Osama… [George W. Bush's grandfather, Prescott Bush, had his stocks in Nazi steel manufacturing removed by Congress in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act.]
HST: And they're Jesus freaks on top of it. Carter was one and I loved Jimmy Carter—we're still good friends—but this is a stupid Jesus freak. Carter deserved the Nobel Prize.
MB: Do you believe the end of the world is coming?
HST: Yeah, it is the end of the world. What, do you think it's going to come on a TV show, right on schedule? Shit. They've been digging this for a long time. Read the fucking Book of Revelations… The end of the world is not just coming; it's here. Until Bush came in it was still possible to be successful, happy. That was two years ago, but now the wheel is turning and I don't think what we're in now will possibly get any better.
MB: So are you excited to be here for the apocalypse at all? Of all the generations in human history, we might be the ones around for the end.
HST: It's not going to happen like a thunderclap. I would like that, really. Why not? A gigantic fucking thunderclap… Yeah, the floods, the nightriders, the marauders… It's going to be pretty grim.
MB: Do you think there'll ever be another draft after Vietnam?
HST: Oh God… Jesus, I hope so. The draft was a disaster. The Army has become a pack of vicious, predatory, mercenary hired killers, and a draft would democratize the Army as it always has. That's why Vietnam turned out to be a victory for our side—for the antiwar folks. You think jail's better than going into the Army? If you don't like it, then you don't enlist. Enough people felt that way, and lo and behold. It was an all-bullshit war from the start.
the head catatonic from the roller rink |
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Mroocore
- FB Fan -
USA
177 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 10:47:13
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quote:
Originally posted by KimStanleyRobinson
Hunter S. Thompson agrees.
The Bushies don't want the draft because it will introduce an undersirable element into the military.
MB is "Marty Beckerman".
http://www.martybeckerman.com/hunter.html
MB: Do you think there'll ever be another draft after Vietnam?
HST: Oh God… Jesus, I hope so. The draft was a disaster. The Army has become a pack of vicious, predatory, mercenary hired killers, and a draft would democratize the Army as it always has. That's why Vietnam turned out to be a victory for our side—for the antiwar folks. You think jail's better than going into the Army? If you don't like it, then you don't enlist. Enough people felt that way, and lo and behold. It was an all-bullshit war from the start.
the head catatonic from the roller rink
HST is crazy and is out of touch w/ reality.
that being said i agree w/ his thoughts although, for different reasons at least than stated above.
a draft would probably one of the best things that could happen to this me-1st society that we now live in.
it would bring home the real effects of the war-mongering and nation-building our country is currently executing around the world.
i beleive that the public would not stand for it.
end result things would change.
PENGU LIES |
Edited by - Mroocore on 09/20/2004 10:49:08 |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 10:51:13
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My complaints about this thread:
-Alpha Soixante's first sentence implies that if we had all voted Democrat, there would be no draft. Look up the names Rangel and Hollings. They are Democrats who proposed legislation to reinstitute the draft.
http://hollings.senate.gov/~hollings/materials/2003127636.html
-This discussion is a pointless rehash of seemingly innumerable other threads, and I find the condescending tone of the post objectionable. Addressing adults like five-year-olds accomplishes nothing. |
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Mroocore
- FB Fan -
USA
177 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 11:11:10
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BLT i agree.
i decided to look past that and add to what i think, if discussed thoughtfully, is a topic that has value and interest.
it is also quite relevant to the events of our time.
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Alpha Soixante
- FB Fan -
Canada
129 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 11:24:18
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BLT,
The "chain letter" is purposefully provocative. So I understand your complaint there. But I thought it was impressive precisely for that reason. I'd rather ignore the issue of the possibility of a draft, it's not Nice To Think About. The hyperbole of that message kind of woke me up to the seriousness of the question.
On the party question: see the links in the original article. There are plans in the works for a skills draft. These are plans prepared by the Selective Service, quite distinct from the Democrat proposed Universal Service bill.
quote:
THERE IS ZERO CHANCE OF A DRAFT.
Ebb, contrary to popular belief, repeating a claim over and over does not make it true. Please stop clicking your ruby heels, Dorothy, and explain *why* you believe there's no chance. I've encountered strong arguments, but not conclusive ones.
My principal concern is that the no-draft view seems to rest on two very questionable articles of faith: 1) the administration would never do something unpopular and 2) the population would never stand for it.
(1) seems suspect, since the administration has become very adept as marketing anything it wants to do. I would have thought a failed war conducted on false pretenses would be political suicide, go figure. Keep in mind, also, that it's not just a question of what they'd want to do--the question is, if the Iraq situation get's worse, and we get involved in a larger conflict (Iran), would they have any choice?
(2) I don't think this can be assumed. The Iraq fiasco should have woken up the public; it didn't. Very large segments of the population have swallowed, digested, and forgotten everything the administration has fed them in the past 4 years. If recent history is any indication, the American public will continue to believe and do what they're told and say "may I have another, sir?" |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 11:47:52
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the same reason there's no chance of alysson hannigan crawling under my desk and fellating me; the idea is absolutely ridiculous.
sure it's not impossible that she could get on a plane from LA -- or wherever -- to michigan and then take a taxi to my office and proceed with the previously mentioned act of deviancy. she has even publicly stated she enjoy said act. i would be happy to help her with this. but it ain't gonna happen.
you and other retards who have been running around like chicken little saying 'oh no the draft is coming! the draft is coming!' are using the fact that it's not impossible to say that it is going to happen.
the reason i'm not going to sit here and have a 'real' debate with you is because the entire suggestion is completely assinine. the white house would be burned to the ground if he tried to institute a draft. you do realize that right? as 'crazy' as the protests were during the '60s, today's youth is far more violent and quick to anger over things that really bother them. if you suddenly told all high school seniors and college freshmen that they were going to be forced to go to war, they would all grab their limp bizkit and fitty cent albums, head to dc and fucking torch the place.
it's like debating whether bush is going to repeal abortion rights. of course he wants to, but of course he isn't going to.
if you honestly think there is any chance of a draft then you are too stupid to form your own opinion about anything. you should shut your mouth and never speak again. find someone intelligent and do whatever they say for the rest of your life because you are incapable of rational thought. |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 12:00:10
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| If the draft were reinstituted, Americans would accept it just like they accept everything else. The people in front of the White House would be the same people that are already there protesting the war. Teens would register for the draft and they would go as called upon. They'd gripe about it at first but then they'd get used to it. The only time might see people really start to get up in arms is when their own drafted kids start coming home in boxes. |
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Alpha Soixante
- FB Fan -
Canada
129 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 12:13:20
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quote:
i decided to look past that and add to what i think, if discussed thoughtfully, is a topic that has value and interest.
Thanks Mroocore, I appreciate it. Maybe the call for a draft would change things. I hope you're right.
Ebb,
You are a charmer. I honestly don't know how seriously to take your posts. The image of The Kids being careful to grab their Limp Bizkit cd's before torching the White House was a lovely one though. Frankly, I don't see it happening. They might, at best, throw a tantrum on a message board. I hope I'm wrong, of course. |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 12:22:14
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i was serious about the last paragraph. please for the love of jeebus shut your piehole. your stupidity has ceased to be funny and now it just makes me cry. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 12:25:46
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oooowhew lols all around.
Kok for telling us that we're always talking about depressing subjects.
And apl's comments/lyrics are hilarious, what with that and sometimes walking like an egyptian, hee.
__________
"The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity,
and worship without sacrifice." |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 12:31:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
today's youth is far more violent and quick to anger over things that really bother them. if you suddenly told all high school seniors and college freshmen that they were going to be forced to go to war, they would all grab their limp bizkit and fitty cent albums, head to dc and fucking torch the place.
Please give me an example of today's youth getting mad about anything. They get mad about "unfair" tests and bad cellphone coverage, but other than that they seem pretty placid to me. Plus, they don't vote so who cares what they think. |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2004 : 12:43:56
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| Apparently Ebb has a much higher opinion of America's youth than we do. |
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Topic |
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Under 35? You're Gonna Get Drafted
