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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
 Posted - 08/15/2004 : 18:07:13
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http://www.georgewbush.com/btl/CustomPoster.aspx?type=color
So, I can't sleep tonight and I was reading the various politico threads on the forum, and decided to read around them a bit (I really am bored) and stumbled accross GeorgewBush.com and was quite delighted when I found a create a poster link, I was going to make a magic ironic forum one when I scrolled down the options for coalition groups (I was going to have the forum as young proffesionals) and noticed the words....
Pro Life
I wanted to check that this was for real? Is this really something they advertise? Because I have to say, if this is true I am HORRIFIED! I really am! Enlighten Tre!
 I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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Edited by - n/a on 08/15/2004 18:09:28 |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 18:14:02
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Just what don't you get? Bush is Pro life.
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 18:20:36
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Thats it! Thats what I don't get! I'm a brit! I pay no attention to all this shit I really don't and that's why I'm so horrified, that thats ok in this day and age! I mean excuse my ignorance but that just wouldn't go down well here at all!
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 18:24:18
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oh, well why wouldn't it go down there? I mean, politicians have differing views on these things and I guess it's expected that such views would be represented on their personal website. Would advertising for Pro-Choice on Kerry's website have surprised you as much?
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 18:27:58
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Advertising for pro Life anywhere would surprise (and horrify) me as would advertising for pro choice because I didn't think it was necessary to advertise for choice which is what it boils down to, it's a choice, pro lifers want to take that choice away and that's why it wouldn't stand up well here I think
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 18:30:03
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but then again BNP are getting votes here so maybe pro lifers are in with a chance, this country certainly has it's share of fuckwits.
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 18:31:02
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well then, I don't feel like getting into this. . .
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 22:10:47
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It does bug me that MEN are often so gung-ho about denying abortion rights. It's not like WE'LL ever have to be pregnant, you know?
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 22:46:16
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I don't think that's the point, VoVat...What you said makes no sense. With that mentality you could have easily said, "It does bug me that MEN are often so gung-ho for abortion rights. It's not like WE'LL ever have to be pregnant, you know?"
Protection is a mutual responsibility...Sure, it's usually only the man who wears the protection (Though the pill is becoming wildly popular) but it's the woman's job to make sure of that. Each time you have sex you're taking a risk that it could lead to a pregnancy. Granted, most unwanted pregnancies come from unprotected sex, but even when there's protection involved it happens. Because of this risk (that both parties should be aware of) it's their "fault" that the woman becomes pregnant.
Conception is obviously a thing that requires two people. The baby (or baby-to-be, whatever) is half the man's and half the woman's. Unless it was a one night stand and they didn't know eachother it's obviously, or atleast should be, up to both of them. So, therefore I think that it's fine that we (men) care about it too. We should care about it, whether we happen to be pro-life or pro-choice. I think it scares some men that the choice is ultimately up to the woman no matter what.
Personally, I think that the only time that an abortion is truly justified is when a woman is raped and becomes pregnant. They didn't have a choice...they were forced to take that risk (possible pregnancy).
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
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klikger
= Cult of Ray =
693 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 00:56:59
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| I'm going to have to agree. Even though I don't want to be labeled a republican. :) |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 01:31:47
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Heh, I don't want to be labeled as a republican either..
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 01:45:36
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nor I.
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 03:16:52
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No contraceptive method bar abstinence is 100% foolproof, whilst I don't agree that abortion should be used as a method of contraception in itself, which it sadly is by many girls (I have friends who work in abortion clinics) I think that it's unfair not to give a choice to those who find themselves in a situation where even though they used contraception they have found themselves with an unwanted child. I think it's a whole lot better than bringing one more unwanted life into the world where your options are raising it yourself and being unable to support it financially emotionally in any way possible at all, or putting a child into care and the care system is far from perfect by any means, the potential for misery and abuse is huge.
I know if I got pregnant now I couldn't carry to term, It wouldn't be fair, I have nothing to give a child. I am carefull with contraception but like I said it's not perfect, I have had to take the morning after pill on a couple of occasions just in case. But I want the choice.
And another scenario that might fit with your morally allowed abortion front is when the child causes harm to the mother, possibly leading to death, that happens a hell of a lot.
I think abortion is an issue you can pretty much slice down the middle and be pro life or pro choice, I don't think exeptions can be made.
And whilst I do think it's an issue for men and women to discuss, (I personally would never goo ahead with an abortion if the "father" was a good reliable man who really didn't want me to)it is ultimately inside a womans body, in nine months that thing's going to squeeze it's way out ripping and screaming and for those nine months we womenfolk will wonder aound bloated and uncomfortable. It's also us who ends up holding the baby when the man does a runner... this is why it's a womans choice, because the carrying of the baby, the giving birth, the raising of the baby are ultimatly left to us.
[edit] took out the thing, nate could you get rid of it in your quote too please, I don't think my family would be impressed with me sharing that one
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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Edited by - n/a on 08/16/2004 05:20:53 |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 04:57:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Tre
On a slightly personal note, a member of my (not immidiate) family was a child borne of the product of rape. She's a walking talking lady, and nice one at that. I think abortion is an issue you can pretty much slice down the middle and be pro life or pro choice, I don't think exeptions can be made.
And whilst I do think it's an issue for men and women to discuss, (I personally would never goo ahead with an abortion if the "father" was a good reliable man who really didn't want me to)it is ultimately inside a womans body, in nine months that thing's going to squeeze it's way out ripping and screaming and for those nine months we womenfolk will wonder aound bloated and uncomfortable. It's also us who ends up holding the baby when the man does a runner... this is why it's a womans choice, because the carrying of the baby, the giving birth, the raising of the baby are ultimatly left to us.
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
Twisting words around isn't very nice. I never said that someone born due to a rape would be any different than anyone else. Did I say that all pregnancies caused by rape should be aborted? No. It's just that I think that the woman can truly justify choosing to get an abortion in that scenario.
And you make it seem like the man always "does a runner". In fact you said "when he does" that it's up to you to raise the child. Umm...Yeah, that doesn't always happen. I'm sure women have "done runners" after the child was born. It's still the man's child too. And if this guy is no good and doesn't care...why the hell would you have had sex with him anyways? Do you see what I'm trying to say at all?
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 05:15:38
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Lordy lordy Nate!
If a woman cannot support a child and has become pregnant even though she used contraception who exactly should she justify an abortion to? And why? If She cannot give the financial emotional and loving support to a child then is it fair to expect her to have one. Making exceptions to a pro/anti abortion argument is a slippery slope really, a rape produced embryo is as unwanted as an unfortunate accident embryo so what is the difference?
I haven't twisted your words either dear boy, I'm giving you a personal story (which I'm now considering deleting 'cos I don't think I like having personal stuff up there)
And you've assumed that all women who get pregnant and have abortions are shirking their contraceptive responsibility, which is also total crap, contraception goes wrong, an unwantd pregnancy is unwanted no matter how it is concieved and to bring a child up with the knowledge that it is unwanted, whether it be by accident or through rape is what I would consider to be cruel.
And no I don't assume all men do a runner, and you never think your partner is a fucker when you sart seeing them or you wouldn't be seeing them unless you're totally fucking thick, this is something that tends to manifest over time. Women have done runners yes, but if they can run and leave their child then they weren't exactly thinking about the responsibility of a kiddy when they were rutting away condom free were they? And my other point was the nine months of discomfort followed by the several hours of agony followed by several years of exhaustion is what we will have to tolerate. Our body, our responsibility, our choice.
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:01:24
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quote:
I don't think that's the point, VoVat...What you said makes no sense. With that mentality you could have easily said, "It does bug me that MEN are often so gung-ho for abortion rights. It's not like WE'LL ever have to be pregnant, you know?"
I suppose that would be a fair corollary of what I said. And no, I don't think men should have no say at all in the matter, but it's easy to preach one side or the other when you've never had to deal with an unwanted pregnancy. Perhaps that's the more important issue here.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:07:22
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I find it amazing that you are this shocked by it tre. I mean, I too am sickened at the thought of people campaigning to have un wanted children born...but i knew it went on....and bush, being bush, has often made it clear he is pro life
I drink and smoke
Until I choke
Until I'm broke
Cos' I want too
If We Sleep Together, Will You Like Me Better? |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:08:10
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If you have sex you have to take responsibility for the possible outcome. The purpose of sex is to create life and so, if your condom breaks, you should be held accountable for taking that risk. Yeah yeah, it sucks. Boo f'n hoo. You knew that could have happened.
As for it being painful: get over it. Suffer through the labor, give the kid up for adoption and be a better peron for it. Less woman agonize over saving their kid's life and giving it up for adoption than are tormented by having had an abortion.
A baby will be adopted instantaneously and that family could be just as good as any other; it's the older kids who have a problem. But, you know what? My girlfriend is a product Foster Care (something far worse than adoption from birth), she's been abused, neglected, you name the atrocity and it's happened, but she's glad to be alive. Her mother was literally a crack whore and she could have aborted, but her life now is still better than being dead. My point is, there's always hope and you don't even have those concerns (foster care and hard luck concerns) when dealing with a newborn.
Of course, if having the baby will kill the mother (and the baby) you must do the sensible thing and protect the mother. In the case of rape . . well, that's difficult, but I would suggest having the baby and giving it up for adoption if you can. It would be hard but I think it would make a person feel better about themselves. There's a truly altruistic action.
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Edited by - realmeanmotorscutor on 08/16/2004 12:15:03 |
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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:22:13
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I can not even believe i am fucking reading this. Im so angry im shaking...Im not even going to bother expressing my opinons, becaus i..i ..because.
Real mean motor scutor, not an opinion i expected of you...i respect a lot of your views, but this has taken me back a lot.
I drink and smoke
Until I choke
Until I'm broke
Cos' I want too
If We Sleep Together, Will You Like Me Better? |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:22:35
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Gypsy dear, to be honest I hadn't paid alot of attention to the bush administration except when it involved another pointless war, so I was surprised when I stumbled accross this. What actually shocked me is that this is considered a positive in campaign strategies I would have thought it would cause most modern thinkers to vote completely against him.
And mr mean motor scuter, how extremely progressive of you. Fuck that, do you think if men became pregnant the issue would be even half as debated as it is? Do men hold off on fucking because they're worried about pregnancy, do you think it crosses most guys minds when he's fucking his lady-friend? I don't think it's fair to toss away a child into an unpredictable lifestyle, I don't think littering this overpopulated planet with unwanted unhappy children is the way forward, and I sure as fuck don't think we should be living the life of a nun. I take the pill and use condoms and have been known when concerned to take the morning after pill as well but I tell you for nothing. If I found out today I was pregnant it's a warm bath and a bottle of Gin for me , I'm not having anyone dictate to me what I should do with my body, it's my choice.
I'm not a girl, I'm a guy you know? But at the same time, I tell ya how you can solve this abortion issue right now. Ready? Those unwanted babies that single moms leave in alleys and in dumpsters? Leave about 12 of those on the steps of The Supreme Court. This is over. Like that. "You guys said we had to have them? Then you guys...FUCKING RAISE 'EM." "Raise 'em then, you fucking fucking raise 'em. YOU raise 'em. You said I had to have it? Then it's yours. Fuck. It's yours..Take it"
-Bill Hicks
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:27:40
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
[quote]
And no, I don't think men should have no say at all in the matter, but it's easy to preach one side or the other when you've never had to deal with an unwanted pregnancy. Perhaps that's the more important issue here.
My girlfriend would like me to add that while it might be easy for a guy to argue one side or the other, it's also easy for women to argue for pro-choice since they will never be the aborted baby. It's too easy to argue that Foster Care or being adopted is a harder life since most making the argument have never been in that situation either. Most Foster care children she knows are happy to be alive and feel blessed.
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:33:24
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Sorry to disappoint. Very unfair of you to put words into my mouth. I think guys should be held equally accountable and yes, many guys are shmucks who don't care.
As for unwanted - babies are highly sought after and none go unadopted. They are wanted. Are you saying that my girlfriend, the foster child, is littering the Earth. How extremely progressive of you. Fuck that.
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:36:29
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By the way, if the egg has already been fertilized, the morning after pill prevents nothing; it is an abortion.
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pfeffa
= Cult of Ray =
Aruba
367 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:36:47
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My favorite...
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:39:13
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Then she's a lucky girl, I'm glad it all worked out for her but you both have to admit it's not always the case
Would it not have been kinder to abort a child rather than beat it to death when it's five or so because you don't want it? Something that happens in the news all the fucking time?
I don't think it's fair to have a child if you don't want it, if you can't support it if you can't love it, the world in which we live is nasty and overpopulated as it is and the last thing it needs is clogging with unwanted children lying around in social systems as easy targets for abuse
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:41:31
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Once again, NO BABY REMAINS UNADOPTED! If you don't want it, give it up!
And more children are abused by their birth parents than foster parents anyway. We just hear about foster cases more often, not that this has anything to do with adoption.
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Edited by - realmeanmotorscutor on 08/16/2004 12:42:40 |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:43:11
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and now who's putting words into whose mouths. You use your girlfriend as a test case a hell of a lot but she's not the poster girl for foster kids I'm afraid
And a fertilised egg is not a viable being it's a fucking cluster of fucking cells my friend, every sperm you jack out onto your keyboard is a potential person, you should save those big boys for your little motorscuter pro life army
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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Edited by - n/a on 08/16/2004 12:44:59 |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:47:13
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haha, ok, I won't touch that sperm comment because that's something people will never budge on.
As for my girlfriend, once again you are confusing foster care and adoption. They are two different things. By the way, she actually IS the poster child for a prominent Foster Care agency and a show of what is possible.
Read "A Child Called It" by David Pelzer and tell me you know what's best for another human being. Tell him he's littering the Earth. Tell it to a Foster child, poster child or not. Tell it to those who have been adopted.
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Edited by - realmeanmotorscutor on 08/16/2004 12:48:21 |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:50:21
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I lied, I'll touch that comment. When I have a wet dream, am I aborting a thousand little motorscutors?
And what a weak ass army it would be, not believing in killing and all.
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Edited by - realmeanmotorscutor on 08/16/2004 12:55:07 |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:54:43
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| What about cases where she wants to have the kid but the father does not. She proclaims that it's her body and she'll do what she wants, and he gets to pay child support for the next eighteen years. Now whose rights are being trampled? |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:55:47
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God, I love that argument. Thanks Erebus.
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:56:04
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I read it.
And I wouldn't tell any other human being what is right for them or not, It's not up to me to choose for other people.
As it's not the place for other people to choose what is right for me.
I'm saying I reserve the right to expel a bunch of cells from my body that will in time become a child that I do not want. I'm saying that this option is not one that should be taken away. I'm saying babies that are not wanted should not be made to be born. I'm saying that pro lifers do not have the right to dictate what I and many other women (with the usual concurrence of men involved) choose to do with their bodies. I personally feel it would be harder for m to have a child and put it into a social system where I had no control over it's life than it would be to not have that child because one day I want to have children and I want to do what's right by them, because I care.
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 12:59:16
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Easier for you, but that's selfish.
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 13:02:35
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Also, if you choose to have an open adoption, you do have control over your kid's life.
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pfeffa
= Cult of Ray =
Aruba
367 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 13:02:55
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Eck, so serious. I thought this was going to be a funny thread about campaign posters.
25% of all "conceptions"--a meeting of the sperm and egg--do not implant into a woman's uterus. I don't want to argue when life begins...this is too political.
I think every woman should be able to make her own decisions regarding her fertility, but then I think about the Lacey Peterson case and feel like her murderer did also kill her unborn child. You just can't win.
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Edited by - pfeffa on 08/16/2004 13:04:22 |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2004 : 13:03:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Tre
Gypsy dear, to be honest I hadn't paid alot of attention to the bush administration except when it involved another pointless war, so I was surprised when I stumbled accross this. What actually shocked me is that this is considered a positive in campaign strategies I would have thought it would cause most modern thinkers to vote completely against him.
Not only Bush, but most republicans are pro-life, and belive it or not, it helps them to get a whole lot of votes, especially from the Christians. For many Christians the only thing keeping them from voting democrat is the abortion issue. It's a sad world we live in when people think a mother should be forced to give birth to a child she does not want!
ˇViva los Católicos! |
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Create your own Bush poster ! ! ! ! ! !
