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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
 Posted - 07/30/2004 : 16:03:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
for instance, my assertion of "boring" above. yes you can argue about what is and what is not "boring". that does not mean that "boring" is not an objective value.
yes it does.
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 16:09:09
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
yes it does.
i can argue with you about what is or is not "red". so red is a subjective value? |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 16:11:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
again, you are speaking of personal taste and not objective evaluation.
again, they are one in the same.
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 16:17:43
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
again, they are one in the same.
this is the last time i am going to reply to you explaining why you are wrong just to have you reply "no i'm right." without any reasoning.
personal taste - i like tenacious d a lot. it makes me laugh, i enjoy the music.
objective evaluation - tenacious d is mostly power chords, toilet humour and obvious referrences to 70s rock. the songs are not terribly original or well composed. kyle plays accurately most of the time, but nothing he does is innovative.
this is the last time i am going t explain the difference. if you still don't understand, then please stop wasting space by replying and just insisting that they are not different. at least back up your argument with reasons/examples. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 16:19:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
quote:
Originally posted by floop
yes it does.
i can argue with you about what is or is not "red". so red is a subjective value?
maybe not..
but if an architect chooses to paint a particular building red, and someone says the color choice is "brilliant" and someone else says they think the color choice was "shitty" who is correct?
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1688 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 16:23:06
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| Ebb, your answers are so full of contradictions that I would have to spend the entire night explaining things to you. I'm not saying it is impossible, I think you're not completely stupid, but you are very very stubborn and completely incapable of discussing - not arguing. |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 16:24:03
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it depends how the terminology is being used.
if he was the first person to ever paint a building red, and it was a restaraunt and the red colour made more people notice it and thus he doubled his business, then objectively you must say that it was brilliant.
if, however, the person just doesn't like the colour red in such large doses and thus deems it "shitty", that's subjective.
the problem here is you do not understand that difference and i'm really tired of explaining it to you.
quote:
Originally posted by Monsieur
Ebb, your answers are so full of contradictions that I would have to spend the entire night explaining things to you.
this is a good excuse to use when you want to dismiss someone but you can't actually find anything specific to point out. please at least point out a couple if there are "so many".
quote:
I'm not saying it is impossible, I think you're not completely stupid, but you are very very stubborn and completely incapable of discussing - not arguing.
i am stubborn when i think i'm right. people who cave in the face of opposition when they think they are right are weak-minded retards.
i apologize for the posturing thing but you really were being quite insulting yourself, and i only returned what you dished out. |
Edited by - Ebb Vicious on 07/30/2004 16:26:35 |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 16:40:55
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This forum gives me a warm huggy feeling. So anyway, I couldn't see someone who thought kylie's music was cool and meant that they liked her music rather than her arse, that just would never work
Frank Black ate my Hamster
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 16:45:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
it depends how the terminology is being used.
if he was the first person to ever paint a building red, and it was a restaraunt and the red colour made more people notice it and thus he doubled his business, then objectively you must say that it was brilliant.
objectively, you may have to say the color choice was "innovative", technicallly, but you don't have to say it's "beautiful" or "pretty". some people might think RUSH was innovative, guitar and drummingwise. they did invent certain things (i'm told). but i don't have to think they're good (i don't) or even appreciate them (i don't) even if they were inventive (still suck)
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1688 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 16:46:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
quote:
Originally posted by floop
but, it's all subjective buddy.
scholars can give me a million reasons why a classical piece by so and so is a brilliant piece of music, but if i don't like it i don't connect with it, i don't connect with it.
thank you for totally missing my point.
again: that is your personal taste. you are not able (or are unwilling) to appreciate it on an objective level.
i can appreciate good symphonic, orchestral, chamber, etc. music on an objective level for its brilliance, innovation, etc. however i do find a lot of it unexciting and also do not particularly connect with most of it (which is why i stopped playing cello).
the two are separate. like i said several times already, most people cannot -- or just do not -- appreciate music objectively. there is no motivation to do so in our society.
quote:
Originally posted by Monsieur
Ebb Vicious, I would add that there is a fourth category of people, people who have read Kant and know that beauty is subjective (and universal). This category of people despises the third category.
and the third category knows that the forth category is stupid and missing the point.
the third category is not evaluating the beauty. beauty is a complicated, subjective value. there are parts of beauty (symmetry, repetitiveness, derivitiveness, composition, colour, etc.) which can be evaluated objectively.wrong. What is considered by many as beautiful at one point can be considered as ugly at another point. however, taken as a whole, beauty is a subjective value.[red]No, nothing about beauty can be objective. When you say something is beautiful, it's like saying "everybody should like it". This a paradox intrinsic to aesthetical contemplation. How can something subjective be universal? This issue can be discussed - you can tell me why you like it, or don't. Our opinions may stay different after the discussion, but the point of art is to question things, to make people discuss. When a work of art is such that it goes against the consensus, and makes people confront their opinions, then it becomes not only beautiful but also intelleactually challe,ging. But this is also about beauty, nothing "objective".
however, beauty is not the only value to music. maybe it is the only value you that you care about, and the sole thing on which you base your opinion (though i highly doubt you are such a devout aesthete)[red]Do you have to be a devout aesthete to appreciate beauty?, but that is neither here nor there. again, you are speaking of personal taste and not objective evaluation.
instead of posturing by referrencing dead philosphers you should actually understand what i'm saying before replying again.
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 16:47:55
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yes i think you are beginning to understand.
objectively you have to say all three members of rush are technically proficient. objectively, they have innovated a lot. objectively, the lyrics are more than just "baby i want to fuck you in the butt." objectively, it is "good" music.
but you do not have to say that you presonally like their music and want to listen to it.
edit:
monsieur, wow, you really missed what i was saying.
1) i was saying *parts* of beauty can be evaluated objectively. looked at the things i listed off. all of those aspects of an object can be evaluated totally objectively.
2) i was saying that you would have to be a very devout aesthete to base your tastes solely on beauty (likewise you'd have to be a really boring person to base your tastes solely on objective criteria), not that you have to be an aesthete to appreciate beauty.
also don't try that red text commenting thing. it's really silly. just quote the parts you want to reply to. |
Edited by - Ebb Vicious on 07/30/2004 16:51:43 |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 16:48:44
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tout est subjectif, excepté l'opinion du ebb viscious
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 16:52:52
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no, my personal tastes are as subjective as anyone else's.
but i can also offer an objective opinion because i can separate my own bias, and i understand the difference between subjective and objective.
why do i have to keep repeating myself? are you retarded? |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 16:57:48
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And I thought I was bad when it came to derailing threads! Ebb man I thought you'd chilled a bit, what is it with all these bitch-fights?
Frank Black ate my Hamster
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 16:59:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
no, my personal tastes are as subjective as anyone else's.
but i can also offer an objective opinion because i can separate my own bias, and i understand the difference between subjective and objective.
why do i have to keep repeating myself? are you retarded?
you're the one who feels the need to keep repeating yourself. i completely understand your self-contradictory view (i understood it the first couple times), i just don't agree with it (because of the inherent self-contradictions).
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1688 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 17:05:43
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| Ebb Vicious : "I am subjective, but I KNOW I am subjective, so that makes me objective." |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 17:06:32
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
you're the one who feels the need to keep repeating yourself. i completely understand your self-contradictory view (i understood it the first couple times), i just don't agree with it (because of the inherent self-contradictions).
your replies indicate you do not understand, and the fact that you think it is self-contradicting also indicates that you do not understand.
sorry, i have determined that you are a moron. :) |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 17:08:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Monsieur
Ebb Vicious : "I am subjective, but I KNOW I am subjective, so that makes me objective."
oh that's the game we're playing now? :)
Monsieur: "i have no idea what i'm talking about but i think i'm really smart so i will spout my mouth off like i'm a genius but when i can't come up with any real responses i will start putting words in people's mouths!!!"
boy that's fun :) |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 17:10:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Tre
And I thought I was bad when it came to derailing threads! Ebb man I thought you'd chilled a bit, what is it with all these bitch-fights?
meh, you know i like to call people idiots. floop and monsieur gave me an excuse to rip into them when they started in on me.
i was being perfectly rational and offering detailed responses but i'm kind of sick of it since nobody feels the need to reply in the same fashion. |
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1688 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 17:12:51
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| Ebb Vicious : "I'm really pissed because that French faggot pointed out the totally contradictry sentence I posted only a couple of lines before. Fuck that. I know I'm the smartest." |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 17:15:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Monsieur
Ebb Vicious : "I'm really pissed because that French faggot pointed out the totally contradictry sentence I posted only a couple of lines before. Fuck that. I know I'm the smartest."
you didn't point out any contradictory lines at all. you reworded what i said to make it seem contradictory.
also i'm pretty dumb, but so are you. |
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 17:24:39
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I cant be assed quoting you. But I wasn't aware I had to state why I don't like them. Good Charlotte and Sex Pistols are both coporate boy bands. I understand why people might like them, just like I understand that radiohead are one of the best bands in the world. Doesn't mean I like them. Oh wait, let me guess, I've missed your point?
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna* |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 17:25:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
quote:
Originally posted by Tre
And I thought I was bad when it came to derailing threads! Ebb man I thought you'd chilled a bit, what is it with all these bitch-fights?
meh, you know i like to call people idiots. floop and monsieur gave me an excuse to rip into them when they started in on me.
It's true! You do! I noted it well before now! And the defensive line now... interesting...
I've decided you're erebuses other half like in "basket case", I can't decide which one of you is odder though
( )
Frank Black ate my Hamster
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 17:27:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Malax
I understand that radiohead are one of the best bands in the world. Doesn't mean I like them.
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
( )
no way!
Frank Black ate my Hamster
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 17:30:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
your replies indicate you do not understand, and the fact that you think it is self-contradicting also indicates that you do not understand.
but, you're wrong.
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 17:31:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Malax
I cant be assed quoting you. But I wasn't aware I had to state why I don't like them. Good Charlotte and Sex Pistols are both coporate boy bands. I understand why people might like them, just like I understand that radiohead are one of the best bands in the world. Doesn't mean I like them. Oh wait, let me guess, I've missed your point?
well i'm not even going to go into the sex pistols thing.
but as for having to state why you don't like things, you don't. you don't have to do anything.
we pretty much agree. "best band in the world" is highly subjective, but yes, radiohead are objectively a good band. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 17:31:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
meh, you know i like to call people idiots. floop and monsieur gave me an excuse to rip into them when they started in on me.
we sure ripped into you. sorry for hurting your feelings.
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 17:37:39
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and really bad you two should feel too, we all know ebb is a sensitive litle precious, aren't you ebby webby woo...
Frank Black ate my Hamster
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2004 : 17:38:45
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
we sure ripped into you. sorry for hurting your feelings.
hurrr,.. yeah i'm crying blood. |
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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2004 : 03:45:59
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Well.
Interesting thread.
Every guy (minus some slight short lived mistakes) Ive been out with since I was 14 has had similar, or a decent (in my opinion) taste in music.
I do think it is very important. Music is a large part of my life, and my lifestyle, and there for to try and share my life with someone, I need that person to understand references I make, and little things like that, get excited when i see malkmus is touring, cry with me when GBV split...some one who has that passion, i hjust need that. I cant imagine being with some one who didnt..
Put it this way, The one guy with the most appauling music taste i sorta of had a fling with, was Irish, and a model for Vogue magazine (no really, i saw the issue, he showed it too me). He was a little too irresistable. So i thought id give it a go despite the glaringly obvious horrid music taste. Didnt last for very long. I just couldnt deal with it. Bad music taste. Just doesnt work.
I drink and smoke
Until I choke
Until I'm broke
Cos' I want too |
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1688 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2004 : 04:10:36
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| I was dating this girl, Elle McPherson. Turned out she liked the Breeders more than Frank Black. I dumped her, not without slapping her in the face, of course. |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2004 : 04:47:35
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it's crucial for me that a gf has similar taste in music. although i've yet to date a big fb fan. 
And it's hard to be a human being, and it's harder as anything else, and I'm lonesome when you're around, and I'm never lonesome when I'm by myself, and I miss you when you're around. |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2004 : 04:59:29
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I'm going to agree with Malax here about the Sex Pistols: a manufactured, highly commercial band of boys. The music was basic, non-innovative and not nearly as proficient or interesting as peers like the Clash or the Damned. Highly confrontational attitudes leading to maximum exposure. Significant proportion of complete idiots in the band.
And still, I quite like them.
I don't know what my point is exactly...
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts |
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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1718 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2004 : 05:04:28
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My wife's taste in music includes Phil Collins, Dido, Supertramp and Eros Ramazzotti.
But most of the time she doesn't listen to music at all - it's just not that important to her.
I'm not as passionate about music as most of you guys seem to be, but it's important to me. I need to have something playing most of the time, and I need to devote time to listening to music without doing anything else... I make fun of the lady's tastes, of course, but I'm not above downloading buying a Dido album for her if she wants it.
We've been married for 11 years and I can't remember a single music-related fight.
I'm just sayin'. I have no analysis to offer.
--
Everything I say to you is gonna come out wrong anyway |
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1688 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2004 : 05:44:59
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Hey, I like Ramazzotti!
Se basta se una bellaaaaaa canzoneeeeeeeeee |
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Music/Relationships
