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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
 Posted - 07/19/2004 : 17:48:00
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This is a pretty liberal forum for the most part, so it's hard for me to imagine anyone here opposed to this, but hey, I'm often wrong. What are your thoughts on gay marriage, and laws/constitutional amendments to ban said marriages?
I personally think it's bullshit. Once again, it's a law which is attempting to tell people how to lead their lives, and I think such a law is total shit. I think the arguments against gay marriage have more holes in them than an inner-city gynocologist (har har). It's either about A) keeping tradition, or B) "think of the children." The biggest hole to the latter argument about a child growing up in a same-sex environment is "where's the mother/father?" Shit, you can say the same thing about all the single parents out there raising children. And not to bring traumatic experiences or exploit others, but how many documented cases have there been of step-fathers/mothers or mom/dad's girlfriends/boysfriends molesting their children? Are there any documented cases of same-sex couples molesting children? Think about it...
[Note: this thread was inspired by a debate I watched on PCN...local access...was flipping through channels and it's an issue which I'm interested in hearing about, because I personally believe we'll be seeing gay marriage being legal within the next several years...unless Boy George (W) gets his way]
I guess I just wasn't made for these times. |
Edited by - El Barto on 07/19/2004 17:49:28 |
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 18:25:02
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What he said. I'd be interested in seeing stats of gay couples who have been married and what the rate of divorce etc is. As I see it, they are often far fitter parents than many 'actual' parents. Tradition/smadition its the 21st century. In about 20 years when all the traditionalists die it will be a perfectly normally everyday occurance, I'll bet you.
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna* |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 19:23:25
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I really don't think I've ever heard a good argument against gay marriage. The people who are against it seem to be so out of pure hatred, or possibly ignorance. Some people cite religion, but that only holds water for people of the same religion.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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Opaque
= Cult of Ray =
USA
251 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 19:28:00
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Gotta go with ye olde, "Man. Just let folks get married if they want to."
"My primitive words match my primitive heart..." - Mercury Rev |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 19:34:46
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Yes, the people fighting against it are homophobes. I don't even think the whole "religion" thing holds much water. No god I know of hates people because of who they love.
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 19:40:21
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Do you know a lot of gods personally, Mr. Futon?
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 19:50:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Malax
As I see it, they are often far fitter parents than many 'actual' parents.
So long as statements like that get outta hand in the years to come....scary. "Gay Parents better than Hetero"...
I think marriage is bullshit to begin with....traditionally couples married for economic reasons...reasons that no longer really exist. Now the only people who get married now are idiots who dont know what the hell else to do (I've been common-law for 11 years now, and apparently our vital signs are still in check, so phew I guess)...people dont know why they get married anymore, they just do it....so why not allow gays to get in on the hypocrisy. |
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WolfManMikeLonely
= Cult of Ray =
USA
936 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 19:53:51
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I'm fairly apathetic, as I am in almost anything political. I agree mostly with what frank_black_francis says but I will add this, most of the smart gay people I know don't seem to care much because marriage doesn't really mean much anymore, except for in the rare occassion.
"Hey fuck you if you don't like it."
-Johnny Thunders
www.transposed.net |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 19:55:07
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
Do you know a lot of gods personally, Mr. Futon?
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo.
Why yes! Here is the KoK's god.
Anyways, I said "that I know of". I was sure to put the "of" in as to not tip people off that I'm friends with a giant whale phallus.
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 19:56:38
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There would probably be some advantages to being friends with a giant whale phallus, though.
I can't think of any right now, but they probably exist.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 20:01:02
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Well, I could carry it around and say "I've got the biggest penis of anyone here!" and hold it up and show everyone. No one could argue. Anyways, let's not derail this topic.
Yeah...people mainly get married because either A.) Pregnancy or B.) Financial issues. It's pretty sick and I truly hope that more people get married for the right reasons. I have nothing against homosexuals and I don't really understand all of the hate they seem to recieve. But let's not forget that television is making them seem so much more sophisticated! (haha...)
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
Edited by - TheCroutonFuton on 07/19/2004 20:01:49 |
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soundofataris
= Cult of Ray =
USA
715 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 20:01:46
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quote:
Originally posted by WolfManMikeLonely
I'm fairly apathetic, as I am in almost anything political. I agree mostly with what frank_black_francis says but I will add this, most of the smart gay people I know don't seem to care much because marriage doesn't really mean much anymore, except for in the rare occassion.
"Hey fuck you if you don't like it."
-Johnny Thunders
www.transposed.net
except for the 1,400 rights due to a married couple that are not shared by those in civil unions or life partnerships?
marriage is either a right or a priviledge. If its a right, then it must be granted to all. If it isn't, well history has shown what happens when you give freedoms to some but not others. These things always end badly.
Kerry in a landslide! |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 20:03:13
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quote:
Originally posted by soundofataris
except for the 1,400 rights due to a married couple that are not shared by those in civil unions or life partnerships?
marriage is either a right or a priviledge. If its a right, then it must be granted to all. If it isn't, well history has shown what happens when you give freedoms to some but not others. These things always end badly.
Kerry in a landslide!
Is it really that many? That's a crazy amount. Jesus.
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
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WolfManMikeLonely
= Cult of Ray =
USA
936 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 20:04:40
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I could be angry and try to defend what my views are, but like I said I'm fairly apathetic. If it's so important then they should give them the right, but I don't really think about it much.
"Hey fuck you if you don't like it."
-Johnny Thunders
www.transposed.net |
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paintmeister
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 23:46:06
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I live in Missouri and we get to vote first on this amendment, if I am correct, and from what I understand the whole US will be watching to see what happens here.
I guess if gays want the right to marry the thing that also goes through my mind is they get the right to pay higher taxes as a married couple as opposed to filing as single. It's all a matter of "rights". I wish I had the right to drive my car without wearing a seltbelt. Hey, if I want to take the chance of dying in a fatal accident it should be my choice. Why does the government (which in my opinion is way out of control-whether it be the Clinton or Bush adm.) get to dictate this? If the amendment passes or fails it won't affect me as far as I can tell.
I would not say that I'm "homophobic". Let's just call it a case of a male hetero that just doesn't understand the "gay appeal". Do they have the choice to their own personal lifestyle? Of course.
Marriage has always been a union between a man and a woman. (to be changed? Maybe?)Call me a traditionalist if you wish. I will vote in favor of the amendment. Now for a compromise. Give "civil unions" the same rights as "marriage partners". Everyone will know that CU's refer to gays and Marriages to straights.
Hey, the first to prove El Barto wrong.
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 01:24:59
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| I don't think there's going to be a vote by the states. I don't understand the details but 60 votes in the Senate, I believe, were need to move the voting on the admendment to the states and they couldn't even get 50 votes. So, it's dead for now. The end result was Bush looked like a smuck who couldn't even get many moderate Republicans to vote for it and Cheney had to flip-flop on his statement in the 2000 vice-presidental debates that it should be left to states to decide whether to offer same sex marriages. |
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 01:30:32
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I'm a strong advocate of homosexual rights. I was really happy that anti-sodomy law was not passed. That law was so gay!!
Dean Ween, shortly before Brando died: "He's played Vito Corelone, Colonel Kurtz, and Stanley Kowalski all in one lifetime. What have you done?" |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 06:02:30
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I guess I understand the argument that marriage (in which you are "joined by God" - whatever that means) was supposively "created" for a man and a woman - but until there is something with ALL the same rights and benefits for people who are gay, I think they should absolutely be allowed to get married if they want too.
_____________________________________________________________________
You`re where you want to be, I`m where I want to be
Caught up chasing everything I`ve ever wanted
I replace you easily, replace pathetically,
I flirt with any flighty thing that falls my way.
But how I needed you, when I needed you.
Let`s not forget we are so strong, so bloody strong.
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 06:15:43
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quote:
Originally posted by frank_black_francis
quote:
Originally posted by Malax
As I see it, they are often far fitter parents than many 'actual' parents.
So long as statements like that get outta hand in the years to come....scary. "Gay Parents better than Hetero"...
I don't quite get that but I stand by it. Obviously they aren't fitter than all parents but some, for example:
The area where I work most of the familys have like 6 kids or somethin and they can barely support them, most of the time both parents are unemployed/addicts/alcos. Adopotion agencys wouldn't allow this, the couple would have to be able to support the children etc etc. You see
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna* |
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pfeffa
= Cult of Ray =
Aruba
367 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 06:29:02
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I hope I represent a new political view. There doesn't have to be a left side and a right side....there should just be a human side. Let people live and be free...be patriotic, yet conscientious. The US, UK, and Israel are the best places to live free.
"Same sex marriage ratification" is one of the first conservative oppositions that I've been directly hated.
I fully think that if any adult human crazy in love with another adult human should be allowed to get married and every state should be required to support those unions.
I completely support pro-choice, but not for minors without parental consent, because there are too many health complications.
I think our country should be strong and defensive and protect people's rights in other countries, but we should also know when enough is enough.
We also have an obligation to spread democracy, feed the hungry, and prevent another Holocaust. I am deeply upset about Bosnia. I don't think we went far enough to protect the innocent.
But, most importantly, we should focus on our own internal problems...racial issues must be put to a stop. This may take another few generations to correct, but this is a horrible flaw in our history.
If anyone disagrees with me, I challenge you to see or learn more about the real story behind "Black Hawk Down". I would love to see someone write against this. I welcome new opinions and I'm willing to learn.
Sorry for the diatribe.
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 06:31:48
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| Why is it so important that gays get married anyway? |
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pfeffa
= Cult of Ray =
Aruba
367 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 06:33:38
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quote:
Originally posted by The Champ
Why is it so important that gays get married anyway?
I just think if two people are silly enough to get married and want to pay more taxes and promote monogamy, then, "go for it". |
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BrendanT
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
907 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 06:37:08
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In a society that still holds marriage in the highest form yet allows half to end up in divorce as well as keeps ramming family values down our throat yet wants a society which operates 24/7, how can anyone even begin to say what is right or wrong with two people living together. I think it will teach understanding and compassion. Everyone used to think that having shops open on a Sunday was a horrendous thing to do. Anyone remember that time in history. Gay marriage will go the same way! If we let it.
Strummer-man
I had me a vision!
It's step, hip, step, pivot! Are you trying to piss-off the volcano?! |
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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 06:40:51
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Didnt we have this topic before, and it caused some quite heated arguements?
Just thought I'd throw that in there... |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 06:49:16
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| Too bad religion is what marrige is based on, so no they should not be married, what would u like to rewrite the bible or something? Its all fine and dandy that u say "well if they love eachother then they should be married." No its not that simple, and i go back to religion. I really dont care about marriage at all and it would not take away from my possible future marriage, but im conserned about the rights of the church and quite frankly the church has every right to deny gays being married. |
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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 07:30:57
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quote:
Originally posted by The Champ
Why is it so important that gays get married anyway?
One of the main arguements that has been discussed already in this thread is that Civil Union partnerships do not give the same rights as those given to marriage partners.
For instance, Theres a gay couple, lets call them Tom & Harry, who ahve been together for 22 years. Thgey live together, have a joint bank account, everything between them is shared, just as a married couple would be.
Harry becomes very ill. He has to go in to hospitol and have a heart transplant. Before he has surgery, the hospitol ahve to take a next of kin who will decide what happens should he be left in a state of not being able to make a decision about his health himself.
OF course, Tom will step forward, Harry wants to be in Toms hands if anythign happens to him.
But NO. Hes not recognised as a next of kin, because they arent married.
Thats just one example. theres also things like when one dies, the other can not sort out their finances and things like that...
Just thought I'd throw that in there... |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 07:37:03
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quote:
Originally posted by GypsyDeath
Didnt we have this topic before, and it caused some quite heated arguements?
Just thought I'd throw that in there...
Indeed. I think I will refrain from getting too involved this time.
_____________________________________________________________________
You`re where you want to be, I`m where I want to be
Caught up chasing everything I`ve ever wanted
I replace you easily, replace pathetically,
I flirt with any flighty thing that falls my way.
But how I needed you, when I needed you.
Let`s not forget we are so strong, so bloody strong.
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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 07:39:05
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quote:
Originally posted by ramona
quote:
Originally posted by GypsyDeath
Didnt we have this topic before, and it caused some quite heated arguements?
Just thought I'd throw that in there...
Indeed. I think I will refrain from getting too involved this time.
_____________________________________________________________________
You`re where you want to be, I`m where I want to be
Caught up chasing everything I`ve ever wanted
I replace you easily, replace pathetically,
I flirt with any flighty thing that falls my way.
But how I needed you, when I needed you.
Let`s not forget we are so strong, so bloody strong.
I was thinking the same thing, but im just itching to reply to some things that have been posted.
I shall try to restrain my self.
Just thought I'd throw that in there... |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 07:44:55
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| Allright then just change those types of laws so that those situations dont happen, im sure no one would care about stuff like that being changed. Arn't they comminlaw tho at this point, and what are the laws of comminlaws. |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 08:27:30
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| It's a stupid idea for a law. You can't force morals on people. |
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 08:40:42
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Lets play:
Homosexuality isn't normal its just plain wrong. Its imoral, and to allow such laws and make homosexuals equal to heterosexual people (how god intended) makes it look like its ok to children. The way things are many people grow up rightfully believeing that its wrong, to alter the laws would make it seem like its a natural commonplace, when it definately shouldn't. For example a man marrying a dog.
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna* |
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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 08:43:29
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Ok Malax. i know what youre trying to do and I refuse to rise to it!
Just thought I'd throw that in there... |
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 09:29:08
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What!? I regularly go out looking for queers to twat! RAR
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna* |
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mereubu
= FB QuizMistress =
USA
2677 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 10:14:38
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Hey, I have a little hands-on project for those of you who are seriously interested in not letting the government crap all over the civil rights of gay folks: please call or email your representative, let him or her know that you're a constituent, and urge them to vote NO on the Marriage Protection Act-H.R. 3313. The House is about to vote on this issue this week. You can find the contact information for your congresspeople at:
http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ |
Edited by - mereubu on 07/20/2004 10:17:47 |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 10:24:22
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quote:
Originally posted by GypsyDeath
For instance, Theres a gay couple, lets call them Tom & Harry,
Because Dick would be insensitive?
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts |
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shineoftheever
> Teenager of the Year <
Canada
4307 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 11:09:28
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gay marriage is totally gay. not that there's anything wrong with that.
 "Too cool for Cults" |
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Gay Marriage
