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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
 Posted - 06/28/2004 : 20:40:32
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I thought it was amazing. Some will say Moore is nothing but a propagandist himself but I don't think a person could possibly overdo the tragedy. This film is brilliant. I'm going to give a kid I know $10 to see it; he wants to join the Marines and is an advocate for blind patriotism (like miss Spears). He's a good kid, I just think he needs to be more well informed.
Anyway, is there anyone here who hated the film.? What are your thoughts?
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WolfManMikeLonely
= Cult of Ray =
USA
936 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2004 : 20:45:18
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I just hate Michael Moore, he is nothing but a propagandist like you said. Have yet to see the film, so I won't condemn it. Bowling for Columbine was absolute shit though, I can say that.
"Hey fuck you if you don't like it."
-Johnny Thunders
www.transposed.net |
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2004 : 20:48:37
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more well informed? getting information from michael moore movies is like only watching Fox News. not the way to go.
actually, Fox News isn't as bad as moore's films. i agree that he's a really good filmmaker, but his "documentaries" are closer to fiction.
-dan |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2004 : 20:54:23
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closer to fiction? I suppose he's become the master dubber of all time, huh? He's biased, that's for sure, but I happen to agree with his bias and he presents in in such a fantastic way that I respect the hell out of him. Sure, in fighting for his cause he sometimes fights "dirty" but what recourse does he have??
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noexx
= Cult of Ray =
361 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2004 : 20:59:37
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voting for george bush is like voting for starbucks.
i also apply the same rule to people who like the yankees and the lakers. |
Edited by - noexx on 06/28/2004 21:02:40 |
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fudd
= Cult of Ray =
664 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2004 : 21:08:34
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| Stanley Kubrick is rolling in his grave. |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2004 : 21:15:09
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why kubrick?
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fudd
= Cult of Ray =
664 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2004 : 21:18:04
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| I don't avoid women, Mandrake. I do, however, deny them my essence. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2004 : 21:31:23
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Amen noexx.
You can throw Wal Mart in there too. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2004 : 21:46:38
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don't hate the Playa, hate the game
word |
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Safe In This Skylife
- FB Fan -
16 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 01:27:46
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ifamericatoldthetruthforonedayitsworldwouldfallapart
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 05:52:14
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| Of course its propaganda, but the good kind....like the films in the fifties about the need to wash yer hands after you whizz. |
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Coldheartofstone
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
2025 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 06:46:35
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I still think everyone needs to see this film, love it or hate it.
Her life was saved by Rock & Roll. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 07:48:58
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I've yet to see it, but in my experience Moore's 'documentaries' (I use the term in the loosest of senses) are good balance to the propoganda being fed everyday. There's more than one side to this coin.
 "When 5000 posts you reach / Look as good you will not, hmmm?" |
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 10:54:12
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I've been a big fan of Michael Moore for a long time, basically since I saw Roger and Me when I was 11 or so. I've always really respected his aim and his approach is unique and hilarious. He seems to try to speak to everyone with his films, books, articles, shows, etc. He shows both the humorous and the tragic side of the events he tackles. I basically worship everything he does.
Yet for some reason, with this film, I was more concious than I usually am with Moore's material that I was hearing a one-sided opinion. Not so much that I felt that the unseen side of things was legitimate or correct as much as I felt that the material and the message were so important that the impact the information might have on Republicans was blunted by the constant mockery of everything held in the conservative belief structure and the people who front and enforce that political ideology. Sure, it's funny to show Bush being a complete moron, but all of us Liberals watching the film already know that, and the time that was spent doing so could have been spent focusing on information or footage that would make anyone with a heart (and some without) cringe and gasp at the lack of humanity in the decisions the leaders of our country made. Unfortunately, by the time much of this comes, the Repuclian party has been desecrated so much that I'm sure the will feel that what they are seeing has been edited and taken out of context so much that they will disregard it as merely Liberal propaganda and not factual or something to think about. I feel as though it would be the equivalent to me watching a pro-war film that basically called me an idiot right up front. I wouldn't be into the idea of war for the purpose we were fighting in the first place, but to be chastised for having that mentality would just set me off. I reminded of the "Bush is a punk ass chump" bumper stickers. The only people who will see that and think "yeah, he is" are people who already feel that way. It's an aggressive approach to trying to solve things.
Not that I could have tackled this issue in a better manner. This is some serious shit, and Moore did a fantastic job with handling the information he had and converting it into a film. Moore obviously cares very much about everyone in this world, those who share his view and those who don't. And his unique approach to informing people, like incorporating humor, has been a big influence on me and informed me more than any other source ever has. I trust the guy. And I highly enjoyed this film. It's great. I just think it'd be great if it was more focused on sending the message to people who don't feel the same way as the filmmaker, but damn, that's probably really fucking hard to do. Now that I've mentioned what I might perceive as flaws or shortcomings in the film, I am ready to talk about how awesome the film was. The things I have expressed very minorly affected me (I know it might not seem that way since the bulk of this has been expressing discontent with the film). I was very satisfied with the film. It just felt weird for me to quesiton Micahel Moore's approach. He's the word of God to me. I have quesitoned God. For this, I shall pay.
"You gotta watch the mota, Thurston. Yr fuckin memory just goes out the window." |
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soundofataris
= Cult of Ray =
USA
715 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 12:22:40
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I think the man's a patriot. He loves america so much that he can't stand what's being done to us and what is being done in our name. Hopefully this movie, which, yes, is more of an op-ed piece then a documentary, will encourage more curiousity in this year's election.
warm....warmer.....disco! |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 12:30:33
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Michael Moore well why the heck not I say. Propaganda mebbe's but with the sheer volume of propaganda shite we have to read between the lines of everyday why not throw in propaganda's own anti propaganda using itself for propaganda
Oh my head HURTS
Listen to Bill Hicks, That man KNEW!!!!! Still all as relevent today, the man is a modern day nostradamus, it's like he knew the same shite would get repeated over and over and over... The act stays fresh even after his death....
Swap faith no more for Marilyn Manson, swap Bush for Bush jr,Swap Iraq for Iraq, Swap New kids on the block for McFly... it's all there
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darkoutsider
= Cult of Ray =
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 15:41:31
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I want to know why people hate Michael Moore so much? The man is just using his freedom of speech. What's so wrong with that? Of course his films are going to be biase. Anytime you do a documentary you're onesided on the topic. You make the film to prove your point, not someone else's. Have any of you Moore haters actually looked up on what he talks about? He list all of his sources. In his book Dude Where's My Country there's 28 pages of nothing but Notes and Sources on each chapter. So why don't you guys do some reading before going after the guy. I mean it's cool not to agree with him, but to call it fiction is just being ignorant.
In my defense... I'm just sayin' |
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Opaque
= Cult of Ray =
USA
251 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 15:52:33
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I think I like Michael Moore okayish enough. Most people that stir up the proverbial sh@t in a politically active sort of way are kind of good for consciousness over all. Even if his slant is very slanted, it's good to pose "off the mainstream" scenarios for folks to ponder.
Don't know if I'll be seeing Fahrenheit 9/11 in the near future or not. But I am fairly stoked about Spidey II. I'm ready for some more web slinging.
"You've gotta listen for a weird, strange noise. Something out of the ordinary." - John Crichton |
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pfeffa
= Cult of Ray =
Aruba
367 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 17:19:43
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Check out http://fahrenheit_fact.blogspot.com if you want to read some opposite perspectives. They point out a lot of bad information and lies that are in the film. |
Edited by - pfeffa on 06/29/2004 17:33:04 |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 19:37:11
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It was an interesting film. But I thought it was too polished and too well choreographed (as far as interviews and stuff) which made it seem a bit like a fake-umentary at times. Maybe the cameras should have been more Blair Witchy.
Some of the footage was really amusing, but alot of it was taken way out of context. Near the end it got really boring, with that lady who lost her son and all. That part dragged on and she almost seemed like she was acting in some parts. Wonder how many takes it took to get some of those interviews done.
Just quit a cult / going through withdrawal |
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Visiting Sasquatch
= Cult of Ray =
USA
451 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 19:47:04
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Just a passing a thought that went through my head...
Michael Moore is the liberals' Rush Limbaugh...
Al Franken : Bill O'Reilly
Bill Maher : Dennis Miller
Janeane Garafalo : Ann Coulter (hysterical diva, yes, but she's much sexier than Janeane and I suspect much smarter)
Howard Stern : ? Hmm..help me with this...this is fun.
Fight all you want, you can find dirt on all of these people. |
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mereubu
= FB QuizMistress =
USA
2677 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2004 : 19:47:36
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Yeah, I saw it last night with my dad and it really has some pacing problems towards the end. I didn't mind the woman who'd lost her son in particular (he's always going to check in with Flint at some point), but I was sort of numbed-out by the endless stream of evil businessmen and war profiteers. I don't even know if it's Moore's fault; maybe it's just that there's only so much downer that one can absorb at a time.
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darkoutsider
= Cult of Ray =
USA
285 Posts |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2004 : 15:14:24
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| If moore was actually such a nobel person he would donate every cent he makes from this film to some orginizations, if he doesnt hes just a greedy hypocrite. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2004 : 15:37:47
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In Moore's credit, this film seems more 'solid'.
I can see why people would make an effort to point out several flaws in the movie, but if ind they also generally ignore the whole point of the film...?
 Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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darkoutsider
= Cult of Ray =
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2004 : 16:26:19
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True dat Davey, true dat. He gave $25,000 to ALA. He owed one to the liberians that helped him publish his book "Stupid White Men." And he tricked Americans into giving food to the Iraqi people by offering cheap gas.
In my defense... I'm just sayin' |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2004 : 20:25:57
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I just saw this movie as well, and here's what I wrote in my blog about it:
Every living, breathing, and thinking human being must see this movie. I don't care if you're liberal, conservative, independant, none of the above, black, white, oriental, middle eastern, christian, catholic, protestant, atheist, muslim, unable to vote, unwilling to vote, undecided on who to vote for, already decided on who to vote for, paranoid, skeptical, down to earth, optimistic, pescimistic, cynical, realistic or unrealistic, you have to see this movie. It should be a required viewing for students and Americans in general of all ages. This movie should not go unseen. It is an informative, depressing, comical, realistic, and gut-wrenching look at the administration currently residing over this country. As cliche as it sounds, it'll make you laugh, it'll make you cry, it'll make you think about what we've done up to this point as a country.
Sure, Michael Moore may have an agenda. Sure, he may use people's personal stories and emotions to drive a point. Sure, he may be showing one side of the story, but this is a fact of the matter with any media outlet, any media source. Everybody has an agenda, everybody has an opinion, and they will use whatever material they have to drive that opinion. We see the opposite of what Moore is saying every day on national TV and we don't bother questioning it. We submit to the fear that is driven into us by the highest levels of the US government. We don't realize that we're being used as pawns in somebody(s)'s pre-meditated plot.
This movie is a wakeup call to the American people. This is a public service message, letting us know who we're out to dethrone this November. It sickens me that even while I write this, there are plans to put measures into place to either suspend or cancel the November elections...We've already had one election stolen from us, what are we going to do this November? Are we going to stand by and let this happen to us again?
This is a moment in time, our time, to not let history repeat itself. We've let it happen for the past four years. We've seen the best in people and the worst in people. We've seen how a country can come together, but not exactly for the best cause. We've been duped as a people into two wars. We cannot let this happen again. Do your part as an American citizen, and exercise your right to vote. While we stand by every day while our civil liberties are pissed on, our Constitution put to shame, we still have this right. It is our duty to take full advantage of it this November.
I feel so patriotic...
I guess I just wasn't made for these times. |
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dogjones
- FB Fan -
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2004 : 20:39:59
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for anyone paying attention the past 3 years most all the film is a bunch of nothing new...honestly, i would have preferred he spent more time on the corporate cash grab engrained in this administration or the lack of proper media coverage on real issues rather than showing bush looking stupid.
that aside, if you can dismiss 2 hours of a movie based on 10 minutes of 3-line statements broken up over the course of the film, you had your mind made up how you feel before the moore's first voiceover hit the screen...its a forest/trees thing.
here's another news flash...moore didnt invent the editorial documentary...he didnt even inovate it. if youve never seen one, i invite you to watch something other that stories about how tigers kill the hell outta small animals on discovery channel.
...largest federal govt. ever, the greatest restriction of rights since the mccarthy era, the most expensive govt. ever, a foreign relations nightmare...if all it takes is a few hundred bucks back on tax relief to buy you off, so be it.
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2004 : 08:34:35
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everyone who relays information to another person puts their own spin on it.
at least moore is open about it and doesn't try to hide it.
fahrenheit 9/11 is entertaining and has been and will be informative for a lot of people.
attacking moore is just a really sad way of avoiding confronting the fact that bush is a puppet of the richest people in the world, used to serve themselves iraq floated on a barge of bodies and river of blood. |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2004 : 16:40:39
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quote:
I think I like Michael Moore okayish enough. Most people that stir up the proverbial sh@t in a politically active sort of way are kind of good for consciousness over all. Even if his slant is very slanted, it's good to pose "off the mainstream" scenarios for folks to ponder.
Agreed. Yes, his stuff is slanted, and perhaps misleading in spots, but it encourages skepticism, and that's a good thing. It's an alternate perspective. You can disagree with it if you like. The important thing is that you thought about it, and that you were exposed to ideas other than those of the government and the mainstream media.
Personally, I would definitely recommend the film to anyone. I thought it was effective, being humorous in spots and disturbing in others. And I think it made a lot of good points.
Besides, isn't a bias AGAINST something generally less suspicious than a bias FOR something?
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2004 : 11:10:14
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| I saw it last week, and although some of it is quite powerful and revealing, I felt it was a bit too exaggerated, but then that's Moore's style. I suppose you have to see it as 'the Michael Moore show', but anyone who's never heard anything about him must surely imagine him as some sort of rabid propaganda monger. Actually, I suppose it is propaganda, to an extent. I have to say, though, it's amazing to see such a political film doing great business in big, multiplex cinemas. In fact, it's amazing to see in being shown in mainstrem theatres at all, never mind it's success. I saw it on a sunday evening in and there were quite a few people there, of all ages. |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 10:13:10
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You pro-Moore people need to spend some time at this site for some serious debunking of the serial liar.
http://www.centigrade911.com/ |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2004 : 13:47:19
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I finally saw it. I agree with El Barto... see it and make up your own opinion about it.
Here's mine... the movie was a great reminder that absolute power corrupts. George W and his dad George H. Bush are bedfellows with many Saudis including the Bin Laden family. There is more of a financial incentive for the Bush brigade to be loyal to the Saudis than his own people! If George W were a business person... his company would not allow him to have such close ties with an opposing interest... it would be considered a conflict of interest...
This is clearly an insider deal and American citizens and Iraqi citizens are paying with their lives to line the pockets of the Bushes, Cheney, The Saudis, James Baker et. al. To make things worse...their gain is at the detrement to the rest of the economy. The war prepetuates uncertainty that slows economic growth.
Bush and Dick '04...what a joke |
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Just saw Fahrenheit 9/11 . . .
