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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
 Posted - 07/19/2004 : 15:35:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
You pro-Moore people need to spend some time at this site for some serious debunking of the serial liar.
http://www.centigrade911.com/
hey that doesn't debunk bush at all?? |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 06:41:31
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| Damn good link Edd Vicious |
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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 07:45:55
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Jim, nice piece of writing, which expresses everything I wanted to say about this film.
I was so angry, when I saw this. Me and my friend..grgh, were just so angry.
I was in tears at the end. people stood up and applauded, others just sat in disbelief. I sat in disbelief.
It made me feel physically sick.
Just thought I'd throw that in there... |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 08:08:35
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quote:
Originally posted by GypsyDeath
Jim, nice piece of writing, which expresses everything I wanted to say about this film.
I was so angry, when I saw this. Me and my friend..grgh, were just so angry.
I was in tears at the end. people stood up and applauded, others just sat in disbelief. I sat in disbelief.
It made me feel physically sick.
Just thought I'd throw that in there...
er, GypsyDeath, it's fiction, a compelling story bearing little relation to reality |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 08:19:27
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| exactly, i can't believe people just take this junk show as 100% factual |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 13:14:40
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I can't believe that either. I can't believe people take the daily news as 100% factual either. Read my writing...everybody has an agenda.
I guess I just wasn't made for these times. |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 13:17:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
er, GypsyDeath, it's fiction, a compelling story bearing little relation to reality
hahahaha you keep telling yourself that, chief. if it makes fellating bush easier for you, that's great. just go do it somewhere else. |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2004 : 13:32:11
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quote:
Originally posted by GypsyDeath
Jim, nice piece of writing, which expresses everything I wanted to say about this film.
I was so angry, when I saw this. Me and my friend..grgh, were just so angry.
I was in tears at the end. people stood up and applauded, others just sat in disbelief. I sat in disbelief.
It made me feel physically sick.
Just thought I'd throw that in there...
That's how I felt... 
I keep telling everyone about it... it made my Grandma sick when I told her about it. |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2004 : 17:31:31
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Moore is a brave guy!
I first saw it last night and thought that it was a pretty good..... however I agree that it was like watching a Democrat Party Political broadcast. At the end of the day with Bush in control of the worlds most powerful nation I can totally understand Moores reasoning to make this film.
Yeah, he's biased.... but then so is CNN..... so many people (mainly not Americans) informed me of CNN's ridiculously one sided coverage post Sept 11th and the Iraq war. Like Bowling for Columbine I think that Moore raises alot of valid points, surely even the die hard Bush lovers cannot argue against that..... maybe some of it is sensationalised but at the end of the day the corruption and lies within the US Government needs to be uncovered.
If Bush gets re-elected the rest of the world will look at Americans with an even more negative view than they presently hold. I'm not saying that this is a correct thing to do (it's not at all, thats narrow minded in its own right) as not all Americans vote for Bush,but there will be a serious negative labelling of Americans throughout the world. I really hope that the majority in America aren't that stupid to vote him in again, he has done enough dame to America, and to the world!
Just the good ole boys, never meaning no harm,
that all you ever saw
been in trouble with the law,
since the day they were born |
Edited by - Stuart on 07/22/2004 17:33:29 |
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martha_promise
= Cult of Ray =
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2004 : 18:06:31
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The September 11th commision report was just released today...
http://www.9-11commission.gov/
It's a heavy PDF file, but if anybody's interested...
With all the circle jerking in the U.S. government, the commission unfortunatly doesn't really come to any profound conclusions.
It's pretty much a bipartisan witch-hunt with no real solutions or statements on what could have been done to prevent it.
Oh well,.. vote FB in 2004!
~~I love the north part, I love your marble ear~~ |
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gracie
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
573 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2004 : 10:48:18
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I've just seen it and i thought it was fantastic.
The part with Lila at the end was so moving, just seeing herself doubled over in grief was heartbreaking. I actually felt bad watching it, like her grief was entertaining or something.
The shots of the marines recruiting in the "poor" shoppng mall and the quotes from those American soliders were both shocking and horrifying. Is it any wonder that "hearts and minds" are not being won over.
To all you American's out there, is he actually going to get re elected? So many American's seem to have this blind faith (just like Britney), its really quite worrying. I know not every one in the USA votes for Bush or agrees with his foreign policy, it just seems that way sometimes.
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2004 : 11:02:11
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quote:
Originally posted by gracie
To all you American's out there, is he actually going to get re elected? So many American's seem to have this blind faith (just like Britney), its really quite worrying. I know not every one in the USA votes for Bush or agrees with his foreign policy, it just seems that way sometimes.
Bush's job disapproval rating is currently around 45-48%. Many Americans do not like the job he's doing.
http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm |
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Smart Alec
- FB Fan -
Netherlands
41 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2004 : 03:16:41
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Just remember that if George W. Bush is re-elected, it won't make the U.S. more polular in the rest of the world.
And even though I haven't seen the movie yet, I've heard that there are some scenes from the battlefield in Iraq in there, the kind of which haven't been shown to the U.S. people before. Iraq is turning into a 2nd Vietnam, the death toll keeps rising and rising, and there's no end in sight. Al Q'aida had probably just GAINED members because of all the U.S. agression in Afghanistan and Iraq. Remember how patriottic all U.S. citizens became after 9/11? Well, the same has happened in the Arabic world after they felt they were attacked by the U.S.
"Love Bang Crash a waka waka" |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2004 : 08:45:06
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| Did you guys hear that Moore offered GWB a free screening tonight in Crawford, TX where he is on vacation. I seriously doubt if he will go, but that would be cool. |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2004 : 13:50:31
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Smart Alec - can you compare the death tolls from Vietnam and the Iraqi Liberation to support your claims? How about casualties per week or total causalties?
If you knew a thing about Vietnam you wouldnt embarrass yourself with such silly comparisons. |
Edited by - Dallas on 07/27/2004 14:09:30 |
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2004 : 14:06:09
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(Silent "k" in "knew"!)
Dallas, you don't have to be an ass to get your point across.
I will agree with Dallas on one thing: This war is much different than Vietnam.
But one thing is the same: A lot of Americans don't agree with the war.
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
Edited by - TheCroutonFuton on 07/27/2004 14:07:42 |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2004 : 14:10:28
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YIKES! Thanks for the headsup on the missing K...
Yes, a lot of Americans are/were against the Iraq war. |
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model consumer
- FB Fan -
USA
128 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2004 : 07:06:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
er, GypsyDeath, it's fiction, a compelling story bearing little relation to reality
[/quote]
Erebus--
Could you specifically point out which parts are fiction? I'm just curious. I saw the film on Sunday for the first time and I didn't see any fiction in there. There are parts with which you no doubt disagree. But if there are factual errors, please point them out. Anyone who doubts any of the claims of the movie surely can prove them wrong.
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"What's all I listen to? It's all freedom rock!" |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2004 : 08:30:42
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quote:
Originally posted by model consumer
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
er, GypsyDeath, it's fiction, a compelling story bearing little relation to reality
Erebus--
Could you specifically point out which parts are fiction? I'm just curious. I saw the film on Sunday for the first time and I didn't see any fiction in there. There are parts with which you no doubt disagree. But if there are factual errors, please point them out. Anyone who doubts any of the claims of the movie surely can prove them wrong.
[/quote]
MC -
Here are a couple of links to rather long, detailed treatments of the veracity of F9/11. Though they are long, they are broken out into short sections addressing specific points made by Moore, so I think you can easily and efficiently visit those aspects that most interest you. The first is to Dave Kopel's "59 Deceits" and the second is to a point by point rebuttal to Kopel. This second article was pointed out on this forum by darwin. As you would expect, I tend to accept Kopel's arguments while discounting the rebuttals.
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/18/173312/462
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2004 : 09:58:04
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Lets see one of the biggest premises in the movie is that Bush helpted the Saudis fly out of the country when the skies where shut down.
Here are the facts:
But in May, Clarke admitted that he alone approved the exit of bin Laden's relatives -- contradicting one of the central premises of Moore's film.
The decision to approve the flights, Clarke admitted, had been his own. The request "didn't get any higher than me," he told The Hill newspaper.
"On 9/11, 9/12 and 9/13, many things didn't get any higher than me. I decided it in consultation with the FBI," Clarke said of the flight carrying bin Laden's relatives.
"I take responsibility for it. I don't think it was a mistake, and I'd do it again," he added. The Saudis and bin Laden's relatives were flown out of the U.S. because of fears for their safety following the terror attacks.
Clarke, who appears in Moore's film, told the Associated Press in June that it was "a mistake" for Moore to include in his movie the assertion that the White House was the impetus for the flights. Clarke called Moore's allegations about the bin Laden family's flight out of the country "a tempest in a tea pot."
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2004 : 12:06:41
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You folks who like both NPR and Michael Moore should read this column by NPR's Scott Simon. I've helpfully included the first few paragraphs after the link.
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/0,,SB109088016885774289-IhjgoNilaR3oZ2ta36IcKyIm4,00.html
'Gonzo Demagoguery' Writ Large
By SCOTT SIMON
July 27, 2004; Page D10
Michael Moore has won the Palme d'Or at the Cannes Film Festival, and may win an Oscar for the kind of work that got Stephen Glass, Jayson Blair, and Jack Kelley fired.
Trying to track the unproven innuendoes and conspiracies in a Michael Moore film or book is as futile as trying to count the flatulence jokes in one by Adam Sandler. Some journalists and critics have acted as if his wrenching of facts is no more serious than a movie continuity problem, like showing a 1963 Chevy in 1956 Santa Monica.
A documentary film doesn't have to be fair and balanced, to coin a phrase. But it ought to make an attempt to be accurate. It can certainly be pointed and opinionated. But it should not knowingly misrepresent the truth. Much of Michael Moore's films and books, however entertaining to his fans and enraging to his critics, seems to regard facts as mere nuisances to the story he wants to tell. [snip]
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2004 : 13:12:54
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| I have a suspicion that this thread will get real quiet and roll off page 1 in short order... |
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Just saw Fahrenheit 9/11 . . .
