Author |
Topic |
Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 13:05:25
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Ray Bradbury: "Michael Moore is an asshole"
http://blogs.salon.com/0001561/2004/06/02.html#a5394
Michael Moore stole the title to his fictuous documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11" from author Ray Bradbury (picture), who in 1953 wrote his dystopic scifi classic "Fahrenheit 451." So what does Ray Bradbury, now 84 years old, think about Moore using his book title for his Bush-bashing movie project?
The answer is, as journalists in the Swedish daily Dagens Nyheter found out when they called the author, that he is mighty pissed off. Here's my translation of the juicier bits of the interview.:
"Michael Moore is a screwed asshole, that is what I think about that case. He stole my title and changed the numbers without ever asking me for permission.
Have you spoken to him?
- He is a horrible human being. Horrible human!
That Ray Bradbury thought Moore could take his Palme d'Or from Cannes and stuff it was extremely clear, even if he never expressed himself with those words, when DN reached the author in his home in Los Angeles. [...]
Do you disagree with his opinions...
-That has nothing to do with it. He copied my title, that is what happened. That has nothing to do with my political opinions.
Bradbury said that he had tried to discuss the issue with Moore, but that the director avoided him.
- I called his publisher. They promised he would call me the same afternoon, but he didn't.
When was that?
- A few months ago, when his plans about the movie was first made known.
The conversation touched politics when Bradbury mentioned that Moore had ruined general Wesley Clark's chances to become the democrat's presidential candidate. Like several American commentators Bradbury means that Moore's support to Clark was a kiss of death when Clark did not distance himself from Moore's claim that Bush deserted from his military service.
- He slandered the president to general Clark, and Clark allowed him to do it. Clark should have said: "Don't say that. It is not true." That day Clark lost his chance to become president.
I understand. And you supported general Clark?
- No. I support honesty.
According to Bradbury others have asked him about Moore's use of his title, but "I don't want to make a big story out of it."
- I detest all paparazzi journalism that is so common these days. If I just could make him change his title silently, that would be the best thing.
Do you think that is possible, I mean the movie is very famous under that title now?
- Who cares? Nobody will see his movie, it is almost dead already. Nevermind, nobody cares.
But it won the Palme d'Or in Cannes?
- So what? I have won prizes in different places and they are mostly meaningless. The people there hate us, which is why they gave him the d'Or. It's a meaningless prize.
Ray Bradbury was very clear that he considered Moore a dishonest thief, but refused to answer if he would press charges in any way.
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 13:48:05
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Bradbury sounds old and perhaps a little senile. He's bitter over nothing, Sounds like he's letting his political leanings fuel his anger more than the tiltle twist. Moore did the same thing with "Dude where's my country?" you don't hear the morons who made dude where's my car bitching. I think Morre goes overboard with his tactics but he isn't just making shit up. i think what he did to Heston was awful. the poor old guy invites him into his home and Moore tries to make an idiot out of him. same thing with the Dick Clark scene. The guy had palces to be and Moore was being a dick!
------------------------------------ Confucious say - The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next. He also say my lucky numbers are: 16 27 36 23 11 http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 13:49:20
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Holy spell check batman!
------------------------------------ Confucious say - The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next. He also say my lucky numbers are: 16 27 36 23 11 http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
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WolfManMikeLonely
= Cult of Ray =
USA
936 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 14:41:38
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I hate Michael Moore and I find it hilarious whenever he gets called on his shit, just to have to see the bastard squirm.
"Hey fuck you if you don't like it." -Johnny Thunders
www.transposed.net |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 14:50:01
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I didn't realize Bradbury had copyrighted "Fahrenheit #". Michael Moore, from what I have read, seems like an egomaniac, but Bradbury needs to loosen up. The movie isn't going to cheapen his book and if anything he'll get a brief boost in sales. |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 14:57:30
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darwin, my understanding is that under almost all circumstances titles cannot be copyrighted, so I guess Bradbury has no legal beef. I agree that the whole thing amounts to a bunch of nothing, but I had to post it because it juxtaposed the whole Cult of Ray drift with the Moore worship prevalent here. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 15:09:24
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I was being sarcastic about the copyright.
I generally agree with Moore's politics, but I don't doubt that he's a showman and will do what he thinks will sell tickets. |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 15:24:26
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I thought Ray Bradbury was dead. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 15:32:34
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Me too, but he sent my husband a letter only last week.
A form letter, anyway.
If the only tool you have is an elbow macaroni, all your problems look like Schroedinger's cat. |
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broken part
- FB Fan -
226 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 15:55:05
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Moore is God! All rest are shit! Don't even gaze upon him with your naked eyes! |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 16:23:55
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Fahrenheit 451 is merely the minimum temperature to set paper on fire. You can't copyright a physics constant.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 16:35:34
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quote: Originally posted by mun chien andalusia
Fahrenheit 451 is merely the minimum temperature to set paper on fire. You can't copyright a physics constant.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
Are you sure? If someone registered "3.1416" for a movie title or band name, then I don't believe someone else could use that name. But someone probably could use "3.2". However, I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm no copyright lawyer. But, I'm pretty sure I could write books called "To Strangle a Mockingbird" or "Catch 44". |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 16:39:53
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You can tittle a book "Jesus Christ" if you want but you can't expect to be payed every time someone mentions Jesus or get offended if someone uses the name for something else.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 17:29:46
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quote: Originally posted by broken part
Moore is God! All rest are shit! Don't even gaze upon him with your naked eyes!
i certainly wouldn't want to gaze upon his naked body. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 17:30:36
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ps. darwin - titles aren't copyrightable. you can make a movie called "The Godfather" if you want, just like you can make a shitty movie called "Crime And Punishment" which someone did.
i'm not sure if MM's movie will make Bradbury's novel look bad or not. but that is lame if Moore ignored his requests.. |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 19:28:07
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Moore's title is an obvious spin off of Bradbury's book, so I don't think saying that it's "just a physics constant" is a good argument. I'm pretty sure no one would know it's the temperature at which books burn if not for the book. Except for nerds, chemists, and physicists, etc.
I mean, is Fareinheit 911 the temperature at which anything starts to burn? Moore's is not a physics constant because it's a blatant rip off of the book title.
Just quit a cult / going through withdrawal |
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klikger
= Cult of Ray =
693 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 19:28:11
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I'm glad that Frank isn't a member of the Cult of Michael. And if he is, I'm glad that he doesn't name albums after it. No matter what, I'm glad. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 01:04:42
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I'm in the middle of reading Stupid White Men and I have to say:
Good book!
don't worry US citizens we will come and rescue you from the Tiran who stole the elections
"I joined the Cult of Frank/Nobody wanted to join my Culf" |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 01:59:19
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quote: But it won the Palme d'Or in Cannes?
- So what? I have won prizes in different places and they are mostly meaningless. The people there hate us, which is why they gave him the d'Or. It's a meaningless prize.
Yes, everyone knows that here in France we hate the Americans. We hate them so much that we give them prizes. And everyone knows that the president of the jury, the French director Quentin Tarantino, hates America.
I keep feeling like people are just looking at screens and web sites all the time, but do they ever do anything? Or go out and say anything to anyone? I'm not so sure anymore. |
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This_Guy
- FB Fan -
Canada
146 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 02:08:33
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dasta whole lotta hate goin on. |
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noexx
= Cult of Ray =
361 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 02:41:11
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bradbury attends comic con once in a while here in san diego...still alive. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 09:24:39
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quote: Originally posted by floop
ps. darwin - titles aren't copyrightable. you can make a movie called "The Godfather" if you want, just like you can make a shitty movie called "Crime And Punishment" which someone did.
i'm not sure if MM's movie will make Bradbury's novel look bad or not. but that is lame if Moore ignored his requests..
Isn't there some board that regulates movie titles? I remember some stink a few years ago over the Austin Powers Goldmember movie and the Bond people trying to block them from using the title. |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 09:33:58
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quote: Originally posted by ProverbialCereal
Moore's title is an obvious spin off of Bradbury's book, so I don't think saying that it's "just a physics constant" is a good argument. I'm pretty sure no one would know it's the temperature at which books burn if not for the book. Except for nerds, chemists, and physicists, etc.
I mean, is Fareinheit 911 the temperature at which anything starts to burn? Moore's is not a physics constant because it's a blatant rip off of the book title.
Just quit a cult / going through withdrawal
My argument was that the tittle could not be copyrighted and legally Bradbury's approval is not necessary. On the other hand Moore's tittle is obviously ironic and based on the book's tittle and he should have contacted Bradbury when he saw that he was upset about it but only out of respect for one of the most important modern authors. Bradbury's reaction sounds childish but Moore should at least give him a call and say something like "thanks for the inspiration"
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 10:13:09
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Mmm....tittle...
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 13:06:01
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Apparently Fareinheit 911 is the temp. which starts to burn Bradbury's ass..haha
Seriously tho, he sounds like raving lunatic in that interview..sad.
Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 13:38:17
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quote: Originally posted by Dave Noisy
Seriously tho, he sounds like raving lunatic in that interview..sad.
Despite Charles Thompson's recommendation, I'm having second thoughts about joining Ray's cult. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 13:53:36
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Ray Bradbury is notorious for detesting journalism/news media etc.. i think he lumps Michael Moore into this catagory, and rightly i suppose. despite the fact that MM might be fighting the good fight, he's still just a dirt-slinger when it comes down to it. he'll never have the kind of talent Ray Bradbury has.
in a way though, i think the themes of Farenheight 451 fit nicely into Michael Moore's prerogative, which is all about uncovering the truth.. it's an appropriate metaphor to borrow (with George Bush as the evil book burner)..
still, the polite thing would have been to get permission. |
Edited by - floop on 06/03/2004 14:04:23 |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 15:56:11
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quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But it won the Palme d'Or in Cannes?
- So what? I have won prizes in different places and they are mostly meaningless. The people there hate us, which is why they gave him the d'Or. It's a meaningless prize. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, everyone knows that here in France we hate the Americans. We hate them so much that we give them prizes.
Well, see, the trick is that the awards statuettes explode after three years, covering the room in which they're kept in snail slime and body odor. You should know that, being French and all.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 17:09:12
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What's so bad about body odor?
For example, I wish there was some body odor in my bed tonight.
I keep feeling like people are just looking at screens and web sites all the time, but do they ever do anything? Or go out and say anything to anyone? I'm not so sure anymore. |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 17:14:39
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I don't like Moore at all, I think he's a populist asshole and the fact that he dislikes Bush like me doesn't change my opinion.
But Ray's argument "they hate us over there" is really surprizing, coming from an educated man that I thought was open-minded. I meet a lot of Americans around here, and they tell me that they really thought people would be hostile over here.
This reminds me of that headline I saw on Fox News last year, saying "bonjour monsieur hussein", where they told that France gave a diplomatic passport to saddam hussein. I guess the guy who wrote that attended the Goebbels School of Journalism. And I'm pretty sure he was a mediocre student.
I keep feeling like people are just looking at screens and web sites all the time, but do they ever do anything? Or go out and say anything to anyone? I'm not so sure anymore. |
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noexx
= Cult of Ray =
361 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 17:24:40
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i don't think you need permission to use the word "farenheit" in your title for anything.....
tv shows always take movie titles and popular slogans and change the names of their episode titles to fit with the names of their characters and themes etc...
northern exposure "A Kodiak Moment" a pun on Kodak's slogan the honeymooners "TV or Not TV" pretty obvious.... the simpsons "Mr. Lisa Goes to Washington"
i like some of bradbury's books....but this whining seems ridiculous.
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Bartholomew
= Cult of Ray =
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 17:29:02
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Gimme a break here people. First of all Ray Bradbury is not DEAD. Last year he wrote and published a NEW novel, the year before that a NEW collection of short stories AND a book of poetry, the year before that a NEW novel. This year he plans to release yet another NEW collection of short stories. None of it is rehashed material mind you. Albeit one of it is in the same class as his earlier work, but is still better than 90% of new fiction.
Also, he's not a raving lunatic unless he has gone severly downhill in the last 6 months or so. Only a short while ago I read a recent interview with him and can inform you he has lost little if any of his faculties. He has however lost both his wife and his brother in the past few months so maybe that could put him in a bit of a bad mood.
Also, I wonder if anyone has bothered to take into account the possibility of a mistranslation. A few mistranslated words here or there change the context of everything.
Funny, the lack of respect a true living legend gets.
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 17:37:35
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The fact that he writes good novels doesn't mean he cannot make stupid declarations. The French writer Céline wroteone of the greatest novels of the 20th century (The journey to the end of the night) yet was very famous for his violent racist and anti-semitic pamphlets.
I keep feeling like people are just looking at screens and web sites all the time, but do they ever do anything? Or go out and say anything to anyone? I'm not so sure anymore. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 17:44:51
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frankly, i don't think he sounds like a lunatic in that interview. he just sound VERY pissed off. which, i don't blame him. it sounds like Michael Moore pussied out of a confirmed telephone appointment regarding the issue.
it's not the fact that he used the title, but the fact that (it sounds like) he used it knowing that Ray Bradbury himself was violently against it.
i could think of 5 other titles he could have used.
ps, adnan, do you really think JOURNEY TO THE END OF THE NIGHT is one of the greatest novels of the 20th Century? |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 18:07:34
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MOST DEFINITELY YES!
In French litterature, there are clearly two novels that can be pointed out as higly above evrything else in the 20th century : - Journey to the end of the night (Céline) - Remembrance of things past (Marcel Proust - I think this is the English translation of "A la recherche du temps perdu").
Céline is really one of my favorite authors. I'm not being chauvinistic, my two other favorite authors are Kafka and Burroughs, who weren't French.
During the war :
quote:
"Kersuzon," I say, "We're in the Ardennes now... Do you see anything in the distance? I don't see a damn thing..." "It's as black as an asshole," Kersuzon says. That was enough... "But," I suggest, "haven't you heard anyone mention Barbigny in the course of the idea? Give you and idea where it is? "No." That was that. Kerzuzon always gave the same answer when I questioned him at night, as if I'd pressed a button, it kind of tickled me. Two or three times more he said the same thing about the asshole darkness and a while after that he was killed, on his way out of some village we'd mistaken for some other village by some French soldiers who'd mistaken us for somebody else.
Céline in the USA :
quote:
As if I knew where I was going, I put on an air of choosing and hanged my direction, taking a different street on my right, one that was better lit. "Broadway" it was called. I read the name on a sign. High up, far above the uppermost stories, there was still a bit of daylight, with sea gulls and patches of sky. We moved in the lower light, a sick sort of jungle light, so gray that the street seemed to be full of grimy cotton waste.
That street was like a dismal gash, endless, with us at the bottom of it filling it from side to side, advancing from sorrow to sorrow, toward an end that is never in sight, the end of all the streets in the world.
There were no cars or carriages, only people and more people.
This was the priceless district, I was told later, the gold district : Manhattan.You can enter it only on foot, like a church. It's the banking heart and center of the present-day world. Yet some of those people spit on the sidewalk as they pass. You've got to have your nerve with you.
It's a district filled with gold, a miracle, and through the doors you can actually hear the miracle, the sound of dollars being crumpled, for the Dollar is always too light, a genuine Holy Ghost, more precious than blood.
I found time to go and see them, I even went in and spoke to the employees who guard the cash. They're sad and underpaid.
When the faithful enter their bank, don't go thinking they can help themselves as they please. Far from it. In speaking to Dollar, they mumble words through a little grill; that's their confessional. Not much sound, dim light, a tiny wicket between high arches, that's all. They don't swallow the Host, they put it on their hearts. I couldn't stay there long admiring them. I had to follow the crowd in the street, between those walls of smooth shadow.
Suddenly our street widened, like a crevasse opening out into a bright clearing. Up ahead of us we saw a great pool of sea-green light, wedged between hordes of monstrous buildings. And in the middle of the clearing stood a rather countrified-looking house, surrounded by woebegone lawns.
I asked several people in the crowd what this edifice was, but most of them pretended not to hear me. They couldn't spare the time. But one young fellow right next to me was kind enough to tell me it was City Hall, adding that it was an ancient monument dating back to colonial times, ever so historical... so they'd left it there... The fringes of this oasis formed a kind of park with benches, where you could sit comfortably enough and look at the building. When I got there, there was hardly anything else to see.
I waited more than an hour in the same place, and then toward noon, from the half-light, from the shuffling, discontinuous, dismal crowd, there erupted a sudden avalanche of absolutely and undeniably beautiful women.
What a discovery! What an America! What ecstasy! I thought of Lola... Her promises had not deceived me! It was true.
I had come to the heart of my pilgrimage. And if my appetite hadn't kept calling itself to my attention, that would have struck me as one of those moments of supernatural aesthetic revelation. If I'd been a little more comfortable and confident, the incessant beauties I was discovering might have ravished me from my base human condition. In short, all I needed was a sandwich to make me believe in miracles. But how I needed that sandwich!
And yet, what supple grace! What incredible delicacy of form and feature! What inspired harmonies! What perilous nuances! Triumphant where the danger is greatest! Every conceivable promise of face and figure fulfilled! Those blondes! Those brunettes! Those Titian redheads! And more and more kept coming! Maybe, I thought, this is Greece starting all over again. Looks like I got here just in time.
What made those apparitions all the more divine in my eyes was that they seemed totally unaware of my existence as I sat on a bench close by, slap-happy, drooling with erotico-mystical admiration and quinine, but also, I have to admit, with hunger. If it were possible for a man to jump out of his skin, I'd have done it then, once and for all. There was nothing to hold me back.
Those unlikely midinettes could have wafted me away, sublimated me; a gesture, a word would have sufficed, and in that moment I'd have been transported, all of me, into the world of dreams. But I suppose they had other fish to fry.
I sat there for an hour, two hours, in that state of stupefaction. I had nothing more in the world to hope for.
I keep feeling like people are just looking at screens and web sites all the time, but do they ever do anything? Or go out and say anything to anyone? I'm not so sure anymore. |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 18:22:36
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As for the mistranslation thing, here is the text in swedish :
http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=1058&a=272062&previousRenderType=2
and in particular "Människorna där hatar oss, sĺ de gav honom Guldpalmen."
I keep feeling like people are just looking at screens and web sites all the time, but do they ever do anything? Or go out and say anything to anyone? I'm not so sure anymore. |
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