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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
 Posted - 05/08/2004 : 14:11:04
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Layers and layers and layers and layers....
Just because the info release is politically timed, does not mean that what is happening is ok. What this does say is that we are slaves to the media, and we do not know the whole story of what is really going on, ever.
Like Deep Throat said (another case of layers within layers) "follow the money".
I like people who glue macaroni on to a piece of cardboard and paint it gold. That's what I aspire to basically. - Tom Waits |
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ObfuscateByWill
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1887 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2004 : 14:49:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Adnan_le_Terrible
Her defence is something like "I didn't do it". Reminds me of the Simpsons.
Yeah.
Before arriving at Abu-Gareb she had photos taken of her while she was sitting (smiling) next to an Iraqi corpse.
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Her mother is apparently a forensics buff. Thought mom would get a kick out of guessing how long the Iraqi had been dead.
I open up my wallet
and it's full of blood |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2004 : 15:33:15
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Was watching the Daily Show, and they played a clip of an Iraqi, who was asked 'what do you think of this?'
His response was something like:
I will have to answer your question with a question: what would the US do if Iraq did this to Americans on American soil?
Jon's response: We'd bomb them.
 Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2004 : 18:14:34
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How can anyone call these people terrorists... I totally agree, if a foreign aggressor invaded the UK then I'd have no qualms of doing all I could to get them out. You never here the French or Jewish resistance being accused of being terrorists!
I don't like cricket
I love it aah! |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2004 : 19:21:24
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http://mediamatters.org/items/200405070002
Limbaugh: prisoner abuse "brilliant"
On his May 6 radio show, Rush Limbaugh continued to defend U.S. military personnel accused of abusing Iraqi prisoners, comparing the abuse photos to "good old American pornography":
LIMBAUGH: All right, so we're at war with these people. And they're in a prison where they're being softened up for interrogation. And we hear that the most humiliating thing you can do is make one Arab male disrobe in front of another. Sounds to me like it's pretty thoughtful. Sounds to me in the context of war this is pretty good intimidation -- and especially if you put a woman in front of them and then spread those pictures around the Arab world. And we're sitting here, "Oh my God, they're gonna hate us! Oh no! What are they gonna think of us?" I think maybe the other perspective needs to be at least considered. Maybe they're gonna think we are serious. Maybe they're gonna think we mean it this time. Maybe they're gonna think we're not gonna kowtow to them. Maybe the people who ordered this are pretty smart. Maybe the people who executed this pulled off a brilliant maneuver. Nobody got hurt. Nobody got physically injured. But boy there was a lot of humiliation of people who are trying to kill us -- in ways they hold dear. Sounds pretty effective to me if you look at us in the right context.
Still, Limbaugh says it's no different from a pop concert or homoerotic pornography:
LIMBAUGH: The thing though that continually amazes -- here we have these pictures of homoeroticism that look like standard good old American pornography, the Britney Spears or Madonna concerts or whatever, and yet the Libs upset about the mistreatment of these prisoners thought nothing of sitting back while mass graves were being filled with three to 500,000 Iraqis during the Saddam Hussein regime.
On his May 5 show, Limbaugh attributed the American public's outrage over the allegations to "feminization":
LIMBAUGH: I think a lot of the American culture is being feminized. I think the reaction to the stupid torture is an example of the feminization of this country.
I like people who glue macaroni on to a piece of cardboard and paint it gold. That's what I aspire to basically. - Tom Waits |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2004 : 19:51:56
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I read this in the paper today and to an extent I agree.
"Its a fuckin war!"
Not a tea party
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna* |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2004 : 22:24:19
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So, you agree with Rush on what arguments? Are you implying Just War practices and the Geneva Convention are pussy? Do you realize prisoners have been raped and murdered?
Please explain.
I like people who glue macaroni on to a piece of cardboard and paint it gold. That's what I aspire to basically. - Tom Waits |
Edited by - apl4eris on 05/09/2004 00:05:56 |
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2004 : 23:07:32
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| I just saw this thread today. Skimming over the pictures and briefly reading a few text, it's pretty sick. |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 01:46:15
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I agree with Malax. There are no rules of war. It's a place where mentally ill people can entirely express their "genius". However, as we are sane, I think we should be pretty concerned about giving all the weapons to the mentally ill. If Neron had the nuclear bomb, we probably wouldn't be here to discuss it.
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 03:41:30
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It's not about war here. We are talking about unarmed people in jail. And civilized societies DO have rules about treating prisoners, even if they are murderers, enemy soldiers or Satan in person. If you start doing exceptions about treating people with dignity under some circumstances you will end that this will happen under all circumstances. If the people responsable for this don't get punished what will stop them from repeating their acts? And how long will it take before people get used to it? How long before some right wing integralist will propose to make torture legal under "conditions"?
 join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 04:03:19
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I was being ironic, MCA
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 04:04:20
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As we learned from the US' defiance of the UN, when you're big, you can follow which laws you want. I mean, who's going to cut off trade with the US or impose sanctions?
Now, I haven't been following this, because in my mind this stuff has always been happening in POW camps before and after the Geneva convention. This is just the first time anyone since Geneva has been stupid/arrogant enough to photograph it.
If it was simply humiliation as Mr. Limbaugh suggests, then perhaps I could agree with him that, well, worse things are probably happening to American troops that are captured, which doesn't excuse it, but indicates that the rage is misdirected. People are calling to demolish the prison? Come on, it's not the building that's the problem, it's the American soldiers within.
But if we're supposed to be accepting of rape/torture as Apl suggests is occurring (and I'll believe her over Rush pretty much anyday of the week) then there's no excusing it on our side or theirs. Just disgusting.
I should probably look into this before posting, but I'd rather not, so consider this more a general comment than a comment on the actual situation.
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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ivandivel
= Cult of Ray =
394 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 04:31:02
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| I wonder though; how is it possible for the american military to be so stupid? These pictures (and videos) supposedly circulated for months before the newspapers got them. Wouldn't any intelligent person have known that these pictures would cause rage? It just confirms the suspicion that there is a serious lack of brains in pentagon (and the white house of course, but we have known that for some time now). |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 11:23:10
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I agree, ivandivel, it seems very stupid, clumsy and dangerous, but I wonder if it's not part of a grander scheme? Either way, it's SNAFU.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2319.htm#REBUILDING
edit: CoF, I'm so flattered that you value my statements over those of Limbaugh!  I felt secure making that assertion since I watched the entire testimony of Rumsfeld and Gen. Myers, etc., before Congress live on CSPAN. It was mentioned repeatedly that there are deeper and more serious allegations, all under the wrap of "criminal investigations" including rape and murder.
I'm not naively outraged that these things occur - I am disgusted as a human being that they do, but I also am cynically aware that these things are not at all new, and part of the role of government has always seemed to include the public's ability to turn a blind eye and believe they are righteous and right, that "God is on their side", that their government is merciful and logical, because we don't acknowledge what goes on.
What is new is that even with the stranglehold executive legislation on information, these problems seem chaotically out of control, a PR nightmare that has poisoned the "hearts and minds" we were supposedly trying to win - this bodes not well for democratic freedom and civil rights, as things will only become more tighlty controlled to try to stem the flow. Much the same as personal rights being exchanged for "security".
I could elaborate, but I'm not sure anyone wants to hear me ramble on anyway.
I like people who glue macaroni on to a piece of cardboard and paint it gold. That's what I aspire to basically. - Tom Waits |
Edited by - apl4eris on 05/09/2004 11:37:23 |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 17:15:57
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I hate how they continue to use the term 'war'..it still is, and always was, an unprovoked attack and take-over. An external military coup.
No different than what Iraq attempted to do in Kuwait in the early 90's. Oh, the irony.
Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 17:51:55
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apl4eris
I have no idea exactly what your talking about, I have limited knowledge at best of whats been going on. And like I said I don't entirely agree with the 'statement' but shit like this happens. Plus its all well and good everyone sitting here typing this after reading it in a paper or seeing stuff on the news. With shit like this the only person I would believe was a family member who had been there and seen whatever goes on first hand.
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Have you not seen saving private ryan?
If you dont piss on the prisoners and such, they will come back later and kill the weird guy from friends. And you'll CRY!
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna* |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 18:29:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Malax
apl4eris
I have no idea exactly what your talking about, I have limited knowledge at best of whats been going on. And like I said I don't entirely agree with the 'statement' but shit like this happens. Plus its all well and good everyone sitting here typing this after reading it in a paper or seeing stuff on the news. With shit like this the only person I would believe was a family member who had been there and seen whatever goes on first hand.
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Have you not seen saving private ryan?
If you dont piss on the prisoners and such, they will come back later and kill the weird guy from friends. And you'll CRY!
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna*
Malox, don't forget that we invaded them. Also don't forget that Private Ryan is a movie.
Here's a story about the ones that died
http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=4642
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Confucious say - The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
He also say my lucky numbers are: 16 27 36 23 11
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
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Edited by - The King Of Karaoke on 05/09/2004 18:33:45 |
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 18:45:17
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Right ok, I shall post not further about this stuff. Yes you invaded them but they chose to fight back blah blah blah blah etc etc.
If you serious about the "Also don't forget that Private Ryan is a movie." bit then you seriously need to get a sense of humour. I understand that sometimes things that I say don't come across right but how can that be read any other way. But I'll just presume you were joking as well.
But seriously I do think if you dont beat up prisoners they will kill the weird guy from friends and you'll cry. Oh wait....
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna* |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 18:50:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Malax
Right ok, I shall post not further about this stuff. Yes you invaded them but they chose to fight back blah blah blah blah etc etc.
If you serious about the "Also don't forget that Private Ryan is a movie." bit then you seriously need to get a sense of humour. I understand that sometimes things that I say don't come across right but how can that be read any other way. But I'll just presume you were joking as well.
But seriously I do think if you dont beat up prisoners they will kill the weird guy from friends and you'll cry. Oh wait....
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna*
Malax, I have a great sense of humor. In fact I'm often told by myself, that I'm the funniest person I know.
Sorry, i guess I missed the joke there, I've had a couple beers. i most certainly did not mean to offend.
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Confucious say - The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
He also say my lucky numbers are: 16 27 36 23 11
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 18:55:53
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Malax, I'm confused about you not knowing what exactly I'm talking about -the way you spoke seemed to imply you read about what I had mentioned (Rush Limbaugh's absurd statements) in the papers, and to an extent agreed. Maybe you were talking about something else? Now the room's spinning.
Anyhoo, I caught your joke. But remember, it was not just the US that invaded, Tony Blair and his country did too. Oh wait...
I like people who glue macaroni on to a piece of cardboard and paint it gold. That's what I aspire to basically. - Tom Waits |
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 18:58:03
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quote:
Originally posted by The King Of Karaoke
quote:
Originally posted by Malax
Right ok, I shall post not further about this stuff. Yes you invaded them but they chose to fight back blah blah blah blah etc etc.
If you serious about the "Also don't forget that Private Ryan is a movie." bit then you seriously need to get a sense of humour. I understand that sometimes things that I say don't come across right but how can that be read any other way. But I'll just presume you were joking as well.
But seriously I do think if you dont beat up prisoners they will kill the weird guy from friends and you'll cry. Oh wait....
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna*
Malax, I have a great sense of humor. In fact I'm often told by myself, that I'm the funniest person I know.
Sorry, i guess I missed the joke there, I've had a couple beers. i most certainly did not mean to offend.
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Confucious say - The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
He also say my lucky numbers are: 16 27 36 23 11
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
Its cool.
But really?You thought that maybe I could think that if you dont be bad to prisoners they will kill the weird guy from friends and apl4eris will cry?
Sorry I'll stop now.
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna* |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 19:00:02
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I hate Friends. I think I mentioned that somewhere before. I think I'll cry....
I like people who glue macaroni on to a piece of cardboard and paint it gold. That's what I aspire to basically. - Tom Waits |
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 19:12:25
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I know vaguely whats been going on, I didn't know the guys name. 2 people from that film were in friends. And David Schwimmer was in band of brothers. How odd. Or not. As for us invading as well, my response is simply, I don't care. I didn't invade, not me personally. What Tony Blair does doesn't represent me as a person so I don't give a damn. I hate it when american bands come over and say to everyone "we have to apologise for our ass of a president" then all the kids shout as though they give a damn. I don't, hes not MY prime minister, I just happen to live in the country he governs over. I walked out of the shitty band boysetsfire because after every song they tried to feed everyone shitty political mumbo jumbo. If the guy had said you all stink of shit I hate you, they would still have cheered.
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna* |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 19:21:33
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I don't like to watch "Friends", it just reminds me that i don't have any.
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Confucious say - The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
He also say my lucky numbers are: 16 27 36 23 11
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 19:25:33
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What? You don't have any friends? I feel really bad for being naughty to you before, now. Im truly sorry. I don't wish that situation on anyone.
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna* |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 19:32:07
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Yes, it sucks. Every once and a while Frog Boy comes over to my tent (between show's) to visit. He says he's my friend, but I know he's just here to drink my Zima and watch my porn.
Thank god for internet forums
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Confucious say - The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
He also say my lucky numbers are: 16 27 36 23 11
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 19:37:13
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There we go. We found it!
Your sense of humour
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna* |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 19:48:16
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What are you talking about?
Ooo! Bye! I gotta slither my way over to the freak tent, I'm on.
------------------------------------
Confucious say - The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
He also say my lucky numbers are: 16 27 36 23 11
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
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This_Guy
- FB Fan -
Canada
146 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2004 : 02:25:41
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somebody tell me how the war on terror ends please?
i tried to read it but it just pu me to sleep.
i bet there's a wedding. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2004 : 14:08:07
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I dunno if i posted this here, but to paraphrase Robin Hitchcock:
I don't get this 'war on terror'. Terror is an emotion..you can't have a war on emotions. It'd be like having a war on love.
Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2004 : 10:11:48
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Anyone who declares war on an abstract noun isnīt worried much about stopping it.
-Owen |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2004 : 15:12:02
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quote:
I dunno if i posted this here, but to paraphrase Robin Hitchcock:
I don't get this 'war on terror'. Terror is an emotion..you can't have a war on emotions. It'd be like having a war on love.
Shhh! Don't give Bush any ideas!
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2004 : 20:12:37
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The war on terrorism is in the same vein as the war on drugs...it's a fucking ambiguous curtain statement that pretty much allows you to do anything in the name of the war on ______. There's no realistic or possible end to either unless we change the administration and de-brainwash the nation.
Boycott cults and t's |
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World outraged by U.S. torture of Iraqi prisoners
