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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
 Posted - 04/19/2004 : 15:33:13
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Well, I'd never seen this before. File this under old but interesting:
http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bz811/fb.html
The cult of Frank: making a pilgrimage with the Catholics
- John Lyttle
Where is his mind? Frank Black is touring the continent even though his new album isn't being distributed in North America.
The tour brings former Pixies frontman to Barrymore's May 8, and Black says he's eager to hit the stage, regardless of the fact that this latest junket doesn't have a record label pushing the recently recorded Frank Black and the Catholics.
"In my case with record labels, I haven't experienced that much pushing, even when it was supposed to be happening," he explains.
"Even when the Pixies were opening up for U2 and everyone was acting like we were opening up for Zeus! You'd be in that situation and you'd think, 'Wow! Everyone should be really pushing the buttons, pulling the favors and spreading out the cocaine and cash right now.'
But these days, the only one pushing the buttons on the tour is Black and his three bandmates.
"Right now in Canada and in the United States I am on no label. I have gone through a lot of negotiations with an independent label in Seattle but but that hasn't been done yet. Last I heard, there was some sort of impasse over a nickle going on between the lawyers," he shrugs.
The album is available in Europe, Japan, Australia and South America, but Black was delayed a lot more in North America by getting out of a contract with American Recordings -- a messy divorce that dragged out for about six months.
"I'm starting to realize that having a record out or not doesn't really matter to someone like me," Black told X Press. "I play shows, people come. And we put our records out once a year, once every two years."
Black says labels have shown interest in the new record and ended up balking. It's usually for one of three reasons: they're too busy already with other bands, they don't think they can make money from the Catholics' recording, or they aren't willing to spread out an acceptable pile of cash.
"I mean, when you've been doing it for a few years and have dealt with a few record companies, you kind of know the score a little bit more and you're like, 'OK, no bullshit deals. I want to be paid this portion, this much.
"If you know what's going on, labels kind of back-peddle because they realize they can't give you what you call a baby-band deal...it's the minimum wage of rock and I'm well beyond that, even though I'm still somewhat obscure in some people's minds."
The suggestion of obscurity leads to a touchy question: Was the era with the Pixies the heyday for Frank Black (or Black Francis as he called himself then)?
"Well it depends on what you mean by heyday. You can, I guess, define heyday strictly in the sense of numbers -- when you were commanding the highest fee and having the most people paying to see you in a nigh club or a theatre. So yeah, by that kind of definition it was."
When he began solo pursuits, Black continued to work with Joey Santiago of the Pixies, but even that collaboration fell by the wayside. "You just can't do the same thing all the time, even though you kind of want it to happen," he muses. "After a certain point, it doesn't work anymore -- for whatever reason, because people are in a different kind of mood sometimes, so it doesn't mix."
While we're addressing touchy questions, what's up with the evolving name anyway? He was born Charles Thompson but it just keeps changing. "I've really only done it once," he protests, "I did it the first time officially by adopting a stage name, then what I've done is I've changed my stage name slightly: you know, Black Francis, Frank Black. A little gag, you know...a little gag to break up the monotony."
A little gag to break up the monotony -- there's a phrase that almost describes Black himself. But there's more to him than chuckles. He and the Pixies got us through the late-'80s with the notion that punk rock could be executed with finesse, played with tuneful ferocity and a sense of fun. Even now, after releasing four solo projects, Black still has that vision -- and he brings it to his shows.
"Basically, we rehearse up several song from each of the Frank Black records, including the new one, which people won't know. So there will be a slightly challenging aspect to the show, not only from our perspective because we've got to play the new material well enough to make people feel like there entertained. But I think for the crowd, to be honest, it is harder to listen to music that you don't know. It requires more concentration."
Black has a pretty high esteem for his listeners and thinks they can handle it -- the concertgoers who come because they remember liking Doolittle, and the die-hard collectors who seek out autographs for obscure European releases.
"It'll be good for that kind of fan because we are going to be playing a few B-sides. We really don't do set lists though. We just kind of go up there and play. We draw from about about 40 songs and we play 20 or maybe 25. We do a couple of Pixies' songs for the Pixies fans out there."
The "we" refers to Rich Gilbert on guitar, Scott Boutier on drums and Dave McCaffrey on bass. Gilbert is the newest member of the band, replacing Lyle Workman, who played in the band about five years. Gilbert has played with Human Sexual Response, the Zulus and, more recently, with Tanya Donnelly.
"We know him from meeting him at gigs and playing shows with him. I've always been impressed with him as a guitar player," Black says. "We knew that one day our guitarist Lyle -- who is a fabulous guitarist and a great person -- was going to leave the group to pursue other interests in music."
Speaking of other interests, who would Frank Black like to work with most? Since the band is called the Catholics, maybe a double bill with Shane MacGowan and the Popes would fly? OK, maybe not.
How about Frank Black and Iggy Pop? "That is actually an idea I kicked around with the Catholics: recording an instrumental demo for Iggy Pop, sending it to him and saying, 'Hey, there's the music, let's make an album. If you care to do lead vocals, we'll do the rock music. Let's do it"
But wouldn't Black want to sing along with Iggy Pop? "Well duets are so forced, aren't they? When it's a duet by design I think that's it's usually more interesting than when you say, 'Hey, I'm gonna sing with you because, you know...
"I shouldn't say that because I had the ultimate of that singing in duet with David Bowie at his concert. Now of course, most of the people at the concert had no idea who I was, but it was pretty fun."
Black's no aging Thin White Duke, but at 33, he isn't a Backstreet Boy either. He sees himself as someone on the fringe, but a musician who can keep at it for years to come.
"Yeah, why wouldn't you want to do it when you're older? It's not really about youth," he insists. "If I'm sitting in the Gold Coast Casino in Las Vegas Thursday night, paid to sit there and watch a 63-year old Freddie Fender totally rock out.... You see something like that, and maybe they're just grumpy old men going through the motions, but they're still entertaining me."
"I like those eclectic kind of loner guys like Leon Russell who, in one period of life he's in Hollywood being a session guy writing for Gary Lewis and the Playboys, and in another period of his life he's jamming with George Harrison in some concert for Bangladesh. I mean, it's a totally different environment, a different vibe totally and there he is in the middle of it all. It's kind of cool, kind of interesting."
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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martha_promise
= Cult of Ray =
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2004 : 19:49:28
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That's a really good article. Thanks Dean.
I love the point he makes in regards to still playing when you're older...we can only hope ;)
~~Pollyann drove steel like a man~~ |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2004 : 03:00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
"We know him from meeting him at gigs and playing shows with him. I've always been impressed with him as a guitar player," Black says. "We knew that one day our guitarist Lyle -- who is a fabulous guitarist and a great person -- was going to leave the group to pursue other interests in music."
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened"
so let it all be clear: Lyle Workman left because he was always supposed to leave one day. No fights, no this, no that.
It's nice to know some more details about it.
 "I joined the Cult of Frank/Nobody wanted to join my Culf" |
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mrgrieves1971
= Cult of Ray =
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2004 : 05:56:13
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I think Lyle has jumped on stage with the Catholics in recent years. I never heard of any bad blood. Just a parting of the ways.
Did you know that Lyle does the theme music for Jon Favreau's show Dinner for Five on IFC? That's my tidbit for today. |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2004 : 11:41:33
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Lyle Workman played on Devil's Workshop.
Still friendly, t'would seem. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2004 : 12:05:14
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| when the Catholics played in Los Angeles May 5th, 2002 Lyle showed up for a few songs. and Frank said they'd been hanging out at Olvera Street all day drinking beer. (being Cynco de Mayo and all) |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2004 : 14:44:03
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yeah, I knew all that, but still there was discussion about why he left, apparently he is a dynamic person with lots of goals.
"I joined the Cult of Frank/Nobody wanted to join my Culf" |
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Larry Norman Jr
- FB Fan -
45 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2004 : 20:09:10
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The clutch reason fb+c was not released on the american recordings label in 1997 after cult of ray was Rick Rubin [head honcho no.1 of american rec.] claimed fb+c was quote/unquote "the worst record I have ever heard" so FB was dumped from american, RR seeing zero hit value in fb+c after the relative commercial disappointment of cult .. fast fwd to March 1998 when PIAS picked up the pieces for a Euro release one full year after fb+c probably could & should have been out.. spinArt, WAR, spinArt again & cooking vinyl step in and the rest is history...
<< watch what you're doing or 6-60-6 gon' get you >> |
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Chris Knight
= Cult of Ray =
USA
899 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2004 : 21:35:27
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| The worst record he'd ever heard, huh? Wonder if Rick knows Flipper is on his label. |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 00:23:21
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That bit about Rick Rubin sounds a little dubious (though who knows). American Recordings may have been in some financial trouble around that time. My memory on this is hazy. I went looking for some online chit-chat about the whole American experience and found some fun old interviews, though.
http://quimby.gnus.org/html/interview/BlackFrank.article.battle.html
http://quimby.gnus.org/html/interview/BlackFrank.article.battle.html
Those are from back when FB&C's was still in release limbo. I remember reading those articles the first week of classes for my college sophomore year and being annoyed.
http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/archives/99/8mus-alarcon.shtml
In this article Frank is quoted as saying nearly the opposite of what the poster in this thread reports:
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He released The Cult of Ray to scathing reviews from critics, but he considered the release a turning point. "That album was the beginning of my return to the basic [formula of] two guitars, a bass and drums," Black says. "I still stand by my first solo releases, but I can't go back anymore. I like where I am [musically] right now."
Unfortunately, Rubin didn't. But when Black submitted the music for his second release on American, Rubin was thrilled. He called it "the best demo he'd ever heard." It was immediate and raw. But Rubin wanted to add his brand of studio hokum to make it consumer-friendly. "That's when I told Rick no," Black says. "He didn't understand that I liked it that way. It was recorded like that on purpose. Basically, he refused to release it as is, so he let me out of my contract."
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Edited by - Jason on 04/21/2004 01:53:01 |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 06:21:59
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'the best demo he ever heard' is a common story
I ever read that the demo was made to impress a producer
maybe that was Rick Rubin, maybe he was supposed to produce FB and the C's, not saying it would have been better musically, but that would have been a commercial succes. Almost everything Rubin touches is a commercial succes, wether it's actually good or not
"I joined the Cult of Frank/Nobody wanted to join my Culf" |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6012 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 06:23:45
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quote:
"When the Pixies formed in Boston, it wasn't under the best circumstances," Black says. "There was always a little bit of friction between a couple of us [in the band] when we first started playing together, and then we got pretty big in Europe. The band became very successful very fast, and suddenly, it was too late to go back [and replace certain band members]."
Soon the Pixies became an institution that overshadowed the quartet's personnel problems, and Black, then known as Black Francis, found himself very unhappy in his universally acclaimed band. "It was not fun backstage," he says of the last days of the Pixies. "I knew the band should have ended two years earlier than it did."
This bit is harsh, I read in the Mojo article that Kim was supposed to be fired back in 1990 or so.
"I joined the Cult of Frank/Nobody wanted to join my Culf" |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11674 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 07:45:04
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Though I love the album and can't stand label/producer interference, I really would like to hear what Rubin had in mind for the brown album to contrast it against the actual one just as a matter of curiosity.
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 07:51:49
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yeah - i remember peter radiator saying a pretty similar thing months ago and i've always been wondering the same thing. i think that the whole beauty of that album would be overshadowed by the slick production
-brian
- "I joined the Cult of Frank / And they tried to cut off my nuts and make me put on a blue jumpsuit"
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prozacrat
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1186 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 12:17:03
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Hey, why don't we just ask Frank to rerecord that album with overdubs!!! I'M JOKING!! I'M JOKING!!!
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 12:33:34
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| It would be interesting to go back and hear Rick Rubin play Phil Spector to Frank's Beatles. That being said, how many of you prefer the new version of Let It Be to the original? (I haven't heard Let It Be... Naked, yet). |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 12:58:44
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It's not as though Rick Rubin is some guy who keeps putting choirs and synths on everything. He's produced plenty of very stripped down stuff. In the 90s he produced an album of nothing but Johnny Cash and one acoustic guitar. Maybe he just didn't like the songs.
Maybe, even before the delay, Frank was wanting out of his association with American Recordings and stuck to his guns for that reason.
There's a lot of possiblities. The full story hasn't really been told. |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 13:45:08
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quote:
Originally posted by speedy_m
That being said, how many of you prefer the new version of Let It Be to the original? (I haven't heard Let It Be... Naked, yet).
i like some parts of let it be naked. i DO NOT like the fact that it is mccartney revisionist history. i think its great to hear the tunes in this setting, but it still feels sort of dirty to me. i actually read something with rubin that said that same thing - that lennon would've hated his vocals (he only liked his vocals if they had some sort of effect on them)
-brian
- "I joined the Cult of Frank / And they tried to cut off my nuts and make me put on a blue jumpsuit"
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Brown-era Interview
