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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
 Posted - 04/01/2004 : 14:14:04
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Sorry, I'm out of funny light hearted stuff to write about lately. I'm currently working on new material. Please bare with me. Until then...
I'm not sure this is appropriate for an internet forum but I just watched this and feel it needs to be seen by those that can handle the reality of what's going on in Iraq right now. This is some of the most graphic news footage I've ever seen. Do not watch this if you can't handle it!! I found this on my crappy website (inside joke) I check for news. The news reports refer to the Americans that were killed Wednesday as "American contractors" I've read we have these companies that we hire that do our dirty work. It was one of these companies that shot down the plane full of civilians last year because they thought they were drug smugglers. I don't remember the details off the top of my head. Was it in Columbia? I have a feeling these people were part of one of these companies. I don't believe they were building contractors, lets put it that way.
One more time. Do not watch this if you aren't in the mood for very a disturbing look at what happened Wednesday!
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5972.htm |
Edited by - The King Of Karaoke on 04/01/2004 14:15:59 |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2004 : 14:28:41
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I haven't watched the footage you linked to yet, but some of the contracters were ex-Navy Seals. Using hired soldiers has become a mainstay of the new American Army, etc. Rumsfeld's plan is to be fast and light, using information and covert action rather than brute force in numbers. For one thing, it is supposedly "cheaper", but a nasty side-effect is that situations that normally would have necessitated a draft, or at least large numbers of military casualties, is obfuscated and depersonalized, so the effect is not felt as deeply at home, by the general populace.
There are quite a lot of books available on the subject of modern "dogs of war" and the companies that employ them (one of which is Halliburton). Just do a search on "corporate warriors", "dogs of war", "mercenaries", or related, on amazon.com, etc.
They are used for security, construction, covert ops, transportation, supplies, etc. They bolster the military, but they also are exempt from military law, and US law, for that matter (the companies that are multi-national, that is).
This subject is grossly under-reported and discussed, IMHO. NPR glossed over it today in about 5 minutes, interviewing one of the industry's own (from a think tank that suuports this structure).
If it is a Miracle, any sort of evidence will answer, but if it is a Fact, proof is necessary. -Samuel Clemens |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2004 : 14:35:53
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I have never seen news footage that graphic. You certainly don't get that kind of footage in this country. In a way it's probably best. Footage that graphic only breeds more anger and hatred, altough perhaps not to the level that the people invloved in the footage obviously feel.
I don't know what to say really. These people are evil, no doubt about that. But they don't think they are evil and there lies a real problem. You know mass murderers/serial killers are usually well aware that they are evil. These people believe that what they are doing is right. They are wrong of course and they are no better than the most evil people that have ever roamed this earth.
Do they deserve to live? No!
Do they deserve the afterlife they believe they will receive? No
Will they get it? If all religion is bullshit and the very notion of an afterlife is bullshit then they are going nowhere like the rest of us. If there is a heaven, however, then I doubt they are going there. If hell exists then I would hazard a guess that they are going there. Obviously I can't prove this but I'd put my life on it, if that's worth anything at all.
I guess all this just reminds me why I try not to watch/read the news. There is so little to be happy about in it. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2004 : 14:58:24
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What???
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2004 : 15:01:39
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Sorry my response didn't go through
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2004 : 15:07:11
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OK, never mind. 
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2004 : 15:29:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Homers_pet_monkey
I have never seen news footage that graphic. You certainly don't get that kind of footage in this country. In a way it's probably best. Footage that graphic only breeds more anger and hatred, altough perhaps not to the level that the people invloved in the footage obviously feel.
I don't know what to say really. These people are evil, no doubt about that. But they don't think they are evil and there lies a real problem. You know mass murderers/serial killers are usually well aware that they are evil. These people believe that what they are doing is right. They are wrong of course and they are no better than the most evil people that have ever roamed this earth.
Do they deserve to live? No!
Do they deserve the afterlife they believe they will receive? No
Will they get it? If all religion is bullshit and the very notion of an afterlife is bullshit then they are going nowhere like the rest of us. If there is a heaven, however, then I doubt they are going there. If hell exists then I would hazard a guess that they are going there. Obviously I can't prove this but I'd put my life on it, if that's worth anything at all.
I guess all this just reminds me why I try not to watch/read the news. There is so little to be happy about in it. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!!
What I was saying and some how lost was that I wished I could believe these people are inherently evil by nature. That way I would feel a whole lot better about what we are doing over there. The townspeople were not the ones that did the killing but beat the dead bodies after the fact. This makes me ask "What were the "contractors" doing that caused so much hatred? It's all very confusing to me. Throw religion in the mix and we add to the confusion of why people believe what they believe is right. Oh well. What can you do except ask questions and look for what hopefully is the truth. I often time prefer not to get involved myself. The only reason I do lately is I'm wondering, "When is what we are doing to people around the globe going to start affecting us in our own country?"
By the way my last name is Homer. I wish I had a pet monkey. That way I'd have an excuse as to why my studio apartrment smells like a gorilla cage right now. |
Edited by - The King Of Karaoke on 04/02/2004 13:07:36 |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2004 : 16:46:12
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quote:
Originally posted by The King Of Karaoke
The only reason I do lately is I'm wondering, "When is what we are doing to people around the globe going to start effecting us in our own country?"
Hasn't it already started affecting us indirectly? As a country, we are waiting for the proverbial "other shoe to drop". The result so far is a general willingness to sacrifice privacy for safety. |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2004 : 18:53:17
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quote:
Originally posted by BLT
quote:
Originally posted by The King Of Karaoke
The only reason I do lately is I'm wondering, "When is what we are doing to people around the globe going to start affecting us in our own country?"
The result so far is a general willingness to sacrifice privacy for safety.
Yes but few realize this is happening. Until something Devastating happens like the terrorist's targeting of America's dams, bridges, nuclear power plants and power grids (oops! that one already did) we think everything is great. Life goes on as normal here as long as we can keep united via tiny plastic flags, and informed on the real issues that effect our daily lives. You know important things like, Janet and Michael Jackson, Britney (is she out of control? email us at MSNBC.COM with your opinions) etc., life will go on as usual. |
Edited by - The King Of Karaoke on 04/02/2004 13:08:46 |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2004 : 19:19:45
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Oh give me a break, that power failure had nothing to do with terrorism. It's always going to be this way...how fucked up things were after September 11th...movies and TV shows digitally editing out the Twin Towers and certain movies and what not being blacklisted or not shown on TV, etc. etc. This will always happen, call it "sensitivity on demand." I suppose we could shelter ourselves and censor everything completely constantly just in case another terrorist attack happens just so that we're at least reverant...or we can go on with our daily lives and live them like we're supposed to. I could go on and on and on...
The world makes me sick, is all. People are so fucking petty. Too much religion, too much hatred, too much violence. People don't understand the value of life and love, nor the beauty of the world. People would rather take the lives of others than give someone a hand. We're a disgusting race. Half the population of the world deserves to be wiped out.
 "Join the Cult of Brit / And let your oral hygiene go out the window." |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2004 : 20:34:32
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Wow..that is pretty disturbing.
Imagine hating another country that much, you'd want to do this, like these people did....
 Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2004 : 22:00:28
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1) if that bothered you never ever ever watch the Daniel Pearl video.
2) dave i really, really resent and am really fucking sick of the implied anti-american bullshit in your post. yes they hate america a lot. but what those people are doing has nothing to do with america's actions and everything to do with educated/intelligent people manipulating uneducated rabble into a raging mob.
as the report implies support for saddam in that area remains strong. why do you think that is? because saddam treated them so nicely? no it's because their local leaders tell them lies about how great saddam was, etc.
the mindset of those people is not unlike that of the zealots who send death threats to abortion doctors.
now whether the iraqis have reason to be angry with america is not what i'm trying to debate here. what i'm annoyed with is your implication that their dragging of dead people from a burning car, mutilating the bodies and publicly displaying them is at all justified on any level.
the bullshit holier than thou attitude that some canadians seem to have adopted is fucking ridiculous. you only have your own country because we think it's cute to watch your leaders try to address a serious issue while saying 'aboot' and 'PRO-gress'.
seriously, though, it's like people who talk shit about their sister or brother. we're basically family so stop being such a fucking douchebag.
(edit: for the record i am probably more liberal than you.) |
Edited by - Ebb Vicious on 04/01/2004 22:02:19 |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2004 : 22:59:51
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quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
The world makes me sick, is all. People are so fucking petty. Too much religion, too much hatred, too much violence. People don't understand the value of life and love, nor the beauty of the world. People would rather take the lives of others than give someone a hand. We're a disgusting race. Half the population of the world deserves to be wiped out.
this really helps me see the value of life and love, and the beauty in the world. |
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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2004 : 23:46:51
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| Thats's the reason no one went to see Jersey Girl : ) |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7442 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 00:41:50
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As weird as it seems, I quite agree with Ebb Vicious. Well, except that I have no particular opinion about Canada.
Denis
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 01:16:52
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Ebb's post seems to be pretty anti-canadian to me.
The news footage is just another sad reminder that many parts of the world are in a total mess. It would be easy to produce a list of dozens of countries where atrocities are taking place on a daily basis (most away from the glare of a television lens). Chechnya is a good example - not very much Western intervention taking place there.
 "I've rejoined the Cult of Ming / Star of favourite childhood movie of 1980" |
Edited by - bedrock_barney on 04/02/2004 01:17:48 |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 02:10:14
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I'm glad most can discuss this subject in an intelligent manner. Just when I'm totally against what our country is doing, I go and ask some Russian or Ethiopian cab driver (which I deal with on a weekly basis) "what their opinion is?" and they are all for what America is doing. It's easy to sit in front of my computer and bitch about how shitty things are but speak with someone that actually has experienced how shitty things can be, and then look at our American life style and realize how lucky we are. What I'm trying to say is I see both good and bad points in both the right and the left. This administration still scares the hell out of me though.
Edit: it would be an intelligent conversation if I knew how to spell. |
Edited by - The King Of Karaoke on 04/02/2004 10:34:13 |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 02:47:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Homers_pet_monkey
I have never seen news footage that graphic. You certainly don't get that kind of footage in this country.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!!
They showed some of the footage on Newsnight on BBC2 last night at around 11.15 p.m.
"I've rejoined the Cult of Ming / Star of favourite childhood movie of 1980" |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 07:19:00
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quote:
Originally posted by bedrock_barney
Ebb's post seems to be pretty anti-canadian to me.
how do you figure? i am just anti-holier-than-thou bullshit attitude.
the thing with ABOOT was a joke. you know what jokes are right? |
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mattb
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
474 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 08:16:31
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quote:
[you only have your own country because we think it's cute to watch your leaders try to address a serious issue while saying 'aboot' and 'PRO-gress'.
It's exactly this jerk off cowboy attitude why 3/4 of the world wants to wipe the U.S. off the map and it was a hillarious joke too! Turn off the CNN and whack your self in the head with a hammer a few times instead, it'll be the same thing, you won't notice a difference.
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http://www.geocities.com/kittridge1/ |
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vigorstrength
- FB Fan -
87 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 08:18:22
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 08:46:00
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quote:
Originally posted by mattb
quote:
[you only have your own country because we think it's cute to watch your leaders try to address a serious issue while saying 'aboot' and 'PRO-gress'.
It's exactly this jerk off cowboy attitude why 3/4 of the world wants to wipe the U.S. off the map and it was a hillarious joke too! Turn off the CNN and whack your self in the head with a hammer a few times instead, it'll be the same thing, you won't notice a difference.
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http://www.geocities.com/kittridge1/
Well put.
Someone please save me down here! I'm surrounded by mindless plastic flag waving Zombies. They for the most part go about their day to day activities in a fairly docile manner but If you tell them their plastic flags are stupid, they attack with merciless force. They appear to be hypnotised by these mind control devices. The bigger the mind control device the happier they are with their lives. They spend most of their free time sitting in family groups in front of these "televisions" not speaking to each other. Judging from the size of them (their asses are fucking huge!), they appear to be preparing for the apocolypse by storing energy in the form of blubber. They acheive this goal via what's known as "fast food" and bags of the latest crunchy crap that the "television" tells them to go out right away and feed to their humongous offspring. They appear to need their food as fast as possible so they can hurry home to begin the nightly ritual of sitting in front of the mind control device not speaking to each other. They think "culture" is something you make yogurt with.
Please help!
Damn dirty apes! |
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Mroocore
- FB Fan -
USA
177 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 09:57:19
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during conversations w/ my international friends, i often conduct mental polls/surveys. through directed questions about their feelings of American society and America's use of military. i have been able to come to some general conclusions.
they all agree w/ the American ideologies, and also find America to be a wonderful place. most of them come from countries w/ at least a US militery base. their problem is w/ the means not the end. they all seem to agree that, to force ideologies thru military conquest/campaigns will be the cause of events such as wednesdays distrubing murders.
this is not to say that these "four civilians" got what they deserved, that dicussion needs more time and attention than i currently have, but the people of Iraq have only responded in kind to the treatment they have received. hostility begets hostility.
i find that many of my foreign friends opinions mirror mine. America or the American society, one of the greatest in the world, is not to blame for these issues. the problem is the cycle of violence that has created some kind of west v. east downward spiral. no leadership has been able to stop this. no president, no prime minister, no king, no religious leader, no one. until the violence ends sadly, these events will continue.
i do not have a problem w/ the use of force, in fact in some cases i strongly promote it. i believe that a nation should defend it's borders, people and interest throughout the world. the use of the US military as some kind of western idealogy police is not one of those cases. this is when i have a problem.
 PENGU LIES |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 12:50:23
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Ebb - i'm trying to empathize with these people. See why they're feeling the way they do.
Maybe you're right, maybe it's their leaders lying to them. Or, also, maybe they didn't like having the shit bombed out of them, based on lies.
As i said - imagine yourself feeling so hurt by another country, that you'd behave like them.
<<now whether the iraqis have reason to be angry with america is not what i'm trying to debate here>>
Of course not, it's pretty clear how these particular folks feel!
<<what i'm annoyed with is your implication that their dragging of dead people from a burning car, mutilating the bodies and publicly displaying them is at all justified on any level.>>
Here you are putting words in my mouth. I already said it was distubing. It's absolutely horrific is what it is, for the people who died, for the people who are participating, and for the families of those who died.
<<the bullshit holier than thou attitude that some canadians seem to have adopted is fucking ridiculous.>>
Come on - this isn't a 'Canadian' attitude - it's a global attitude, and is in direct response to the source of this: the US 'holier-than-thou' attitude.
Which put them (the US) in Iraq in the first place. Most in opposition aren't guilting of going to war on false accusations.
Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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martha_promise
= Cult of Ray =
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 19:41:23
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Not to be a dick, but I think it's way off base to attempt to empathize with these people and imply that it's a world wide attitude against the United States of America.
Abeit, animalistic behavior such as this, is slowly being exterminated from Western Civilization, Not that we've haven't had our share (slavery, trail of tears, columbus, spainsih inquisition, ect. x10000) Most of the world has evolved into some semblance of rational thought. (you're all for love and peace right?) Some cultures are just a little slow on the up-take. The world needs this region stabilized.I think it's intellectually dishonest to polliticize the events in Fallujah with anti-American rhetoric.
~~Polly-ann drove steel like a man~~ |
Edited by - martha_promise on 04/03/2004 01:41:25 |
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mattb
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
474 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 20:25:34
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quote:
Originally posted by martha_promise
Dave,
Not to be a dick, but I think you're way off base with attempting to empathize with these people and implying that it's a world wide attitude against the United States of America.
Abeit, animalistic behavior such as this, is slowly being exterminated from Western Civilization, Not that we've haven't had our share (slavery, trail of tears, columbus, spainsih inquisition, ect. x10000) Most of the world has evolved into some semblance of rational thought. (you're all for love and peace right?) Some cultures are just a little slow on the up-take. The world needs this region stabilized.I think it's intellectually dishonest of you to polliticize the events in Fallujah with anti-American rhetoric.
By the way, you guys did a rockin' good job on the new FB song database!
~~Polly-ann drove steel like a man~~
I'm going to get flamed for this but here goes anyway.
I would like every American especially those who are making comments in this thread to research the history of what The United States, the United Kingdom and numerous other western countries have done to countries in the middle east (and numerous others) since the beginning of the 20th century before they make they're opinions known on this board. The U.S. media is incredibly biased (as all media is) and unfortunately people's opinions are shaped by them, I know mine are too. It's just the simple fact of being given another perspective of what's going on in the world will help you make more constructive critisisms of what is going on in international politics today.
This comment is extremely closed minded:
"The world needs this region stabilized"
I'm sorry but I laughed when I read this. Again the ignorance shines through like fucking crazy. What needs to be stabilized? The fact that Western ideologies are not in these people's radars? The fact that they don't want to bend over and let us fuck them up the ass in order to reach our economic goals? Please, this is a rehash of every bullshit speech by Bush.
"Not to be a dick, but I think you're way off base with attempting to empathize with these people and implying that it's a world wide attitude against the United States of America."
I almost pissed myself when I read this. Like I mentioned earlier stop watching CNN and all the other bullshit that is feeding you this crap. The people who are against the U.S. are obvioulsy pissed off because they're jealous of American freedom, right?
Don't get me wrong though. I have nothing against America as a group of people. What I do have a problem with is neo-conservative manifestos being implemented through America's government and the media feeding people a bunch of bullshit that is trying to justify these actions. Actually, it's not even neo-conservatices because this crap has been going on forever and not just by the U.S. France for example has been all high and mighty that they don't want to attack Iraq because it's the wrong thing to do blah, blah, blah. What they don't tell you though is that France has (had) contracts with Iraq worth billions that went down the drain since the old Iraqi government got toppled.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that every country in the world cares absolutely nothing about the people who live there and like always the number one reason for anything to do with foreign policy is $$$. Before you belive any crap that it's about helping the people there or anything like that do a little research about what's really going on.
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http://www.geocities.com/kittridge1/ |
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jimmy
= Cult of Ray =
USA
876 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 20:48:55
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The root cause of all the world's problems with killing and terrorism is the people who are religious and take religion seriously. And those people are dangerous in direct proportion to how religious they are. When there are a bunch of people who are devoted to some supernatural belief system, what solution can there ever be when there's a conflict with some other belief system?
Most of the Middle east is filled with completely backwards people and if they weren't sitting on all that oil their own fucked-up way of life would have ended them years ago.
I'd love to see America isolate itself (stop all the "peace-keeping" operations, stop all the foreign aid to other countries), and then have all the different counties do their own thing and see how things turn out.
America isn't perfect, but it has the right basic idea. All it needs to do to fix itself is to get back to its original idea- get rid of all the hand-out programs (welfare, medicare, medicaid, Social Security, National Endowment for the Arts) and let people make their own choices and live with the results.
(There are still religious people in America, but they don't really take it seriously. Even our most strict religious people are just phoning it in- here Catholic priests have scored with more boys than NAMBLA and most of the parishiners hardly care.) |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 21:13:37
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why did i ever think that sarcasm wouldn't go over your heads? anyone who uses the word "cowboy" in a political debate loses almost as fast as someone who uses "nazi".
dave:
do you sit around empathizing with american and canadian religious zealots and bigots too?
"i wonder what makes those rednecks hate black people so much? it must be tough being inbred."
no, because it's ludicrous. likewise, those people are beyond rational thought, and trying to "empathize" with them is masturbatory. it's to try to make yourself feel like you're such an uber open minded fellow, and so much better than everyone else.
the useful thing to think about is what is really causing them to act that way. not how they feel. think about the real cause. the real cause is ignorance, lack of education.
you forget, they don't have CNN there. they don't have NPR. there *might* be one TV in the village. they only know what's going on in the world through what they're told.
your attitude comes from a very weak grasp of the real situation.
look in that video, do you see bomb damage in those shots? because i don't.
yes a lot of bombs were dropped on iraq, and some of those were in or near civilian locations, but many were not.
i don't want this to turn into a "was the US right to invade?" debate, because the answer is irrelevant (and i would say no anyway.)
the point is those people are barely that at all, they are ignorant, uneducated rabble which is being manipulated into a feverish mob. they are not thinking like you or i, they are reacting purely on emotion, and that emotion comes from being told every day constantly that the US is a big evil giant trying to take away their culture and take over the world. while that may be true of george bush, it's not true of the US as a whole.
talking about an entire country as having a holier than thou attitude is fucking retarded. i was talking about it on an individual level. ie, a lot of CANADIANS seem to be adopting it. i didn't say CANADA has adopted it. there's a big distinction there, maybe you don't see it.
whatever, i'm bored of talking at you, since it doesn't seem to be getting through.
before i go, though, did anyone else find it incredibly ironic that many of those people were wearing western style clothes and hanging the guy off of a bridge built on western engineering? |
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mattb
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
474 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 21:22:40
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quote:
Originally posted by jimmy
The root cause of all the world's problems with killing and terrorism is the people who are religious and take religion seriously. And those people are dangerous in direct proportion to how religious they are. When there are a bunch of people who are devoted to some supernatural belief system, what solution can there ever be when there's a conflict with some other belief system?
LMAO, so I suppose getting fucked around by other countries has absoultely nothing to do with being pissed off? It must be Allah right? When will those stupid towel heads learn like we did after the crusades that fighting over religion doesn't solve anything. That's so in the past for western countries, we know religion is bullshit, money is the real thing to fight over!
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Most of the Middle east is filled with completely backwards people and if they weren't sitting on all that oil their own fucked-up way of life would have ended them years ago.
LMAO, they're fucked all right, fighting for their freedom, prosperity and stuff while we want to hoard everything. Fuck those assholes! You know what's the most stupid about them, how they don't buy their own weapons to bomb us like we bomb them. Losers, they have to make home made bombs or hijack planes, can't they do the civilized thing like use missles. What the hell is their problem, do they not have any money or something? They should go get jobs instead of sitting on welfare.
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I'd love to see America isolate itself (stop all the "peace-keeping" operations, stop all the foreign aid to other countries), and then have all the different counties do their own thing and see how things turn out.
You're 100% right. What I would love to see too is America stopping fucking around with these countries all together. You know, stop installing puppet governments, organizing coups, stuff like that.
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America isn't perfect, but it has the right basic idea. All it needs to do to fix itself is to get back to its original idea- get rid of all the hand-out programs (welfare, medicare, medicaid, Social Security, National Endowment for the Arts) and let people make their own choices and live with the results.
You make some good points mein fuhrer! Screw the old and the poor, they're just lazy and probably black too.
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(There are still religious people in America, but they don't really take it seriously. Even our most strict religious people are just phoning it in- here Catholic priests have scored with more boys than NAMBLA and most of the parishiners hardly care.)
Nope, no one who takes religion seriosly at all in North America LMAO
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 21:47:36
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quote:
originally posted by mattb
LMAO, they're fucked all right, fighting for their freedom, prosperity and stuff while we want to hoard everything. Fuck those assholes! You know what's the most stupid about them, how they don't buy their own weapons to bomb us like we bomb them. Losers, they have to make home made bombs or hijack planes, can't they do the civilized thing like use missles.
Or maybe they could use children as human shields. Oh wait, they already do that.
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Nope, no one who takes religion seriosly at all in North America LMAO
We don't take religion seriously like people of middle-eastern descent. (Many of them, anyway.) Here in the U.S. religion has been, like everything else, bastardized into a simple tool of political manipulation. We claim separation of church and state, but yet "god" still pops into the picture whenever there is an idea (like homosexuals getting married) that the administration doesn't like. Whenever there is an issue (like the judge who got fired for having a statue of the ten commandments in the court room...I think his name was Moore..?) that people get offended by, it is quickly pointed out that the bible (or religion in general) has no place in the government of the United States. Yet, strangely enough, when the aforementioned gay marriage subject comes up, the strongest argument that people are able to muster up has to do with this country being founded on Christian principles and so on and so forth...) I realize that this is not directly related to the events in Iraq, but it does illustrate how big a difference there is in the way the two nations view religion, and compared to them, I really don't think we do take it very seriously.
Take me, break me, tell me a good one and maybe I'll cry
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jimmy
= Cult of Ray =
USA
876 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2004 : 23:06:46
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mattb, I'm glad that you liked my post so much that you wanted to finish my sentences and complete my thoughts- thank you, but I said all the things I wanted to say.
I appreciate your interest but what I was hoping for was an exchange of arguments.
I've been reading and re-reading your posts and they seem incomplete. For example, if someone says something you disagree with, I don't think it's enough to say that they're ignorant and haven't done enough "research".
And my post was filled with a lot of strong opinions that were just begging to be argued with. When you answer with "LMAO", it suggests the lack of an argument. If you disagree with any of the things I said, please give your arguement. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2004 : 00:08:06
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Ebb wrote:
<<do you sit around empathizing with american and canadian religious zealots and bigots too?>>
Huh? The Iraqi's were bombed over LIES. How does this compare?
And i'm compelled to empathize because i saw them on this video and am aware of what they might be thinking. I didn't read the article, but i don't know how much of this is religious, or how much is their total dismay and frustration with US actions.
In your original message you said it was their lying leaders. Now it's lying priests? Which is it?
<<i don't want this to turn into a "was the US right to invade?" debate, because the answer is irrelevant (and i would say no anyway.)>>
If you can say that bombing and taking over their country based on lies and deceit is irrelevant, than i have no base for this discussion...
<<the point is those people are barely that at all, they are ignorant, uneducated rabble which is being manipulated into a feverish mob.>>
This seems like a gross generalization. Maybe you're right. I'm not convinced.
<<before i go, though, did anyone else find it incredibly ironic that many of those people were wearing western style clothes and hanging the guy off of a bridge built on western engineering?>>
Maybe they have a sense of humor and were being ironic. ;)
Jimmy - you gotta be joking... Mattb sorta covered most of what i would have responded with (perhaps a little too much sarcasm), but the religious people in the US *are* very serious. Serious enough to bomb abortion clinics. Serious enough to make gay marriage near impossible. And serious enough that a certain individual could claim he was given the presidency by God All-mighty Himself.
Bush may not be as overt as Islamic folks, but he is as much a religious nut as any of them. I'd even say considerably more religious than Saddam.
Let's play nice now...including you Matt.. =)
Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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jimmy
= Cult of Ray =
USA
876 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2004 : 01:04:33
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DN, My point wasn't that America doesn't have religious psychos, my point was that, in general, religious Americans are just going through the motions. I think most of the people that are protesting gay marriage think that if they spend a couple of hours holding a sign that says, "Adam and Eve- Not Adam and Steve", it'll make up for not going to church for the past ten years.
You said, "Let's play nice..." I can't tell if you were joking, serious, or half-serious (I saw the smiley face); if you were serious, ( I don't see anything mattb or I said that wasn't playing nice) what exactly was the problem?
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Edited by - jimmy on 04/03/2004 01:06:06 |
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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2004 : 01:13:34
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2004 : 01:22:03
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quote:
originally posted by Dave Noisy
Jimmy - you gotta be joking... Mattb sorta covered most of what i would have responded with (perhaps a little too much sarcasm), but the religious people in the US *are* very serious. Serious enough to bomb abortion clinics. Serious enough to make gay marriage near impossible. And serious enough that a certain individual could claim he was given the presidency by God All-mighty Himself.
The people who do this kind of thing seem to be the exception, not the rule. Most religion in the U.S. is so watered-down and P.C. You don't seem to make any distinction between those who use religion as a counter argument to gay marriages and those who bomb abortion clinics. I'd say that, based on the kind of action I've observed the majority of people in the middle east are religious zealots (i.e. fanatics, and equivalent to those who would bomb abortion clinics.)
So apparently if I went to Iraq to be a petroleum geologist it's justified if I happened to be murdered and had my body drug from the back of a car, and then hung up on a bridge? I don't think of the Iraqis as the underdogs that you seem to think they are. I might not agree that our motives for staying in Iraq are the best, but I have never understood how you could consider the regime of Saddam Hussein okay.
Take me, break me, tell me a good one and maybe I'll cry
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WARNING! EXTREMELY GRAPHIC!
