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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
 Posted - 03/03/2004 : 10:15:46
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I know some of you guys have discussed Ween in the past and they are generally popular with fb.net peeps.
Just had my birthday and I'm on a cd buying spree. Yippee! Ween are on my list. They are completely missing from my collection and I need to remedy this situation.
Looking at White Pepper, Quebec and Mollusk. Had a listen to snippets of the 12 country songs. Probably give that one a miss.
Am I heading in the right direction?
 "The Pixies are reforming?? / I say bring back Abba, ahaaa!!!" |
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Johnny Yen
= Cult of Ray =
USA
408 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 10:24:20
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| Depends on if you like the better-produced, full-band Ween (on the albums you have mentioned) or the terrible twosome shitbrown recordings from the godWEENsatan, pod, chocolate & cheese albums. |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 10:37:39
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| Don't put Chocolate & Cheese in that category, it's a wonderfull record. My favourite Ween records are White Pepper, the Mollusk, Quebec, and C & C. I also love 12 Golden Country Greats, but it doesn't rank quite as highly. As for the other records, I love the ideas (and the songs done live are brilliant), but the effects put on the vocals and instruments, to my ear, drown out the song. I would start with White Pepper, it is the most accessible. The Mollusk is probably their highest rated album critically, and Quebec is a good representation of all the different styles they do. "True" or "hardcore" Ween fans seem to favour the earlier stuff, particularly Pure Guava and The Pod, and seem to shun White Pepper, but that's just stupid. Bands have to evolve. You can't go wrong with any of those records, Barney. |
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 11:42:01
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White Pepper is a boring Ween record. While it is an adventure compared to plenty of other bands who stick to one sound, White Pepper doesn't really go that far. Hell, there aren't even any breakdowns or bridges in any of the songs. They're all straightforward songs that refuse to digress and diverge, which has always been part of Ween's charm. All of the songs are plenty good, but as a whole, the album doesn't go very far. I think that The Mollusk or Quebec are much better starting points. They have plenty of accessible songs but are also extremely brown, with plenty of weirdness and progginess, a style which seems to be a mainstay for Ween.
Chocolate and Cheese is a very good starting point, too, but I'm just bored with that record. Perhaps it is your best choice, but I'm going to say The Mollusk or Quebec. Between the two, I think Mollusk is your best choice.
"You're muckin' with a G here!" |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 12:04:34
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Cheers for the advice so far guys.
I'm eyeing up White Pepper and Quebec on ebay. With any luck they'll be mine by the end of the week.
"The Pixies are reforming?? / I say bring back Abba, ahaaa!!!" |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 12:05:02
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quote:
Originally posted by TarTar
They're all straightforward songs that refuse to digress and diverge, which has always been part of Ween's charm.
Perhaps it is the straighforwardness itself that is the divergence. If they ALWAYS diverge and digress, is it really that unique and interesting? I love experimental and weird, but there's lots of room in my record collection for straighforward songs (see SMYT). |
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Atheist4Catholics
= Cult of Ray =
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 14:17:37
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I think they've gone consistantly downhill since Chocolate and Cheese. They seem more interested in proving themselves as songwriters than making interesting records. I like the country album and Mollusk, but I think White Pepper and Quebec are very mediocre. It's mostly due to a lack of studio experimentation and also very uneven lyrics that are x-rated and ironic one minute and sickingly sentimental the next. You get the impression that they're taking themselves way too seriously. Ween and They Might Be Giants were both better in my book when they were making records using 4 tracks and 8 tracks as a duo.
 "Join the Cult of Frank / or The Clops gets it!" |
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Johnny Yen
= Cult of Ray =
USA
408 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 14:37:29
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Amen A4C.
Speedy M: Chocolate & Cheese is indeed a great record, but it clearly belongs in the earlier browner era of ween. It's way more twisted, along the lines of godWEENsatan and pure guava (forgot that the first time around. that's probably my favorite... although DOn't Get 2 close 2 my Fantasy is much better live). Sorry, you lose. Please play again. |
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i_bleed
- FB Fan -
27 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 15:25:18
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They're all good albums in my opinion. Took awhile for me to get into The Pod album though. I disagree with the opinion that the earlier stuff was weak. Maybe not recorded the best, and that's probably on purpose, but Ween rock through and through. I will agree that their later stuff is a bit more mature and mixed a lot smoother. I'd say you can't go wrong with White Pepper and Quebec. They only one I don't own or haven't borrowed extensively from someone is Mollusk.
"when you look at the sky in a poetic kind of way..." |
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i_bleed
- FB Fan -
27 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 15:29:20
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Here's a treat that someone tuned me into on the www.pixiesmusic.com site under a Ween thread. Just go to www.justconcerts.ca and do search there on Ween. They have last October's Vancouver show available via streaming audio for free. It's got a set list there too so you could cross reference the songs with what albums they appear on. It's a really good quality live recording...
"when you look at the sky in a poetic kind of way..." |
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GHutt
- FB Fan -
105 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 19:22:49
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That is an awesome quality concert... I listened to a lot of it the other day.
I think I would enjoy The Pod more if it didn't sound so horrible. I have the remastered godWEENsatan, and it sounds a whole lot better. |
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 22:32:21
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The Pod's production is a bit muddy, murky and thin, but it really conveys the spirit that Mickey and Aaron (Dean and Gene Ween respectively) were in at the time. Mickey was sick with mononucleosis during much of the recording, and both of the boys were working crappy minimum-wage jobs. The place that they recorded the album was where they lived: a small little flat on a horse form. There was a woman who lived upstairs who would come knocking every time she smelled them smoking pot, asking if she could smoke down with them. She was very annoying, and they wrote the song Weed Whore about her and played it hoping she would hear it and take a hint (the song doesn't appear on any official releases). They named this place The Pod. There are hardly any uplifting moments on the record. Contrary to popular belief, Ween did not inhale Scotchguard during the recording of these songs. They thought it would be a funny joke, playing into their whole drug-crazed image. Many hardcore fans took it literally and began inhaling Scotchguard, and the results were very ugly.
The Pod is probably the Ween record I've listened to the most. It's a far cry from the hyperactive obnoxious GodWeenSatan, and just as distant from the bright, playful sound of Pure Guava, even though Guava and The Pod were recorded during the same time period. GodWeenSatan was actually recorded more professionally, 16-track studio I believe, with Andrew Weiss overseeing everything (except for the song Birthday Boy, which is 4-track recording). Both Guava and Pod were recorded on the 4-track by only Dean and Gene and Andrew Weiss stepped in later to bring out the sound more (except for Don't Get 2 Close, which was done on 16-track).
"You're muckin' with a G here!" |
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 22:51:49
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quote:
Atheist4Catholics wrote: It's mostly due to a lack of studio experimentation and also very uneven lyrics that are x-rated and ironic one minute and sickingly sentimental the next.
I must strongly disagree with this, for several reasons. First of all, I don't understand how you can say there is a lack of studio experimentation. Quebec has The Fucked Jam, which has a badass beat with minced up, unintelligable, tweaked out vocals over the top of it. And that's all it is, repeating for 3 minutes. This doesn't seem like they are trying to prove themselves as songwriters, it seems like two guys fucking around with sound in the studio. Plus, Quebec has a beautiful sonic landscape underneath nearly every song. Among His Tribe has so many little noises lurking that it feels like walking through a woods of guitars, synths, wind instruments, undiscovered creatures. So Many People In The Neighborhood has all the bizarre, wacky noises and is very stereo-friendly, with fucked up vocals and an incredibly intense breakdown. There's plenty of old-school brown Ween on Quebec, it's basically a hi-fi version of the Pod, but they have matured as songwriters and performers, so there is plenty of great songs as well, but I think it's a good balance between brown Ween and accessible Ween.
Lyrically, I don't think they have been x-rated in quite a while. White Pepper had one line about sucking dick, and it wasn't surrounded by sentimental lyrics but just sort of quirky, odd lyrics. The first track on Quebec refers to drug use and partying hard, but nothing x-rated, and that's about as immoral as the record gets lyrically. There were far more vulgar lyrics surrounded by sentimentality on Chocolate and Cheese (Baby Bitch is a great example). But really, they've always kept the vulgar lyrics and the sweeter more innocent lyrics in seperate songs. Like Guava has Goin' Gets Tough, Reggaejunkiejew, Play It Off Legit, and Pumpin' 4 The Man all in a row, and each of those songs is vulgar and fucked up, but songs like Sarah and Loving U Thru It All don't have any cussing or hint at foul things.
I think they don't get the same kick they used to at being vulgar. It's too easy. They seem to want to write good songs, but interesting and weird stuff as well. But they've basically dropped the scummier side of their lyrics altogether, with an occasional throw back to the dirtier stuff ("I came in your mouth" from If You Could Save Yourself You'd Save Us All).
"You're muckin' with a G here!" |
Edited by - TarTar on 03/03/2004 22:54:10 |
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lsinger9404
- FB Fan -
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 01:25:47
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[quote]Originally posted by bedrock_barney
I know some of you guys have discussed Ween in the past and they are generally popular with fb.net peeps.
Just had my birthday and I'm on a cd buying spree. Yippee! Ween are on my list. They are completely missing from my collection and I need to remedy this situation.
Looking at White Pepper, Quebec and Mollusk. Had a listen to snippets of the 12 country songs. Probably give that one a miss.
Am I heading in the right direction?
------------------------
For some cool, CLASSIC Ween, look no further than their Pizza Hut "commercial":
http://www.chocodog.com/chocodog/ween/ween_new/audio.html |
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DrWorm
- FB Fan -
81 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 08:16:38
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i love the ween!
for a Frank Blacker i would say get White Pepper first. THEN get The Mollusk, Chocolate and Cheese, then get Quebec, and if you are still with Ween after this much, take on Pure Guava/The Pod or God Ween Satan if you are feeling really brave.
White Pepper has some very well written songs, as it IS their most commercial album, but it's not shallow main stream either.
I hated Ween when I first heard them, it was Chocolate and Cheese that turned me on to them. Now I think it's much easier to get into white Pepper first.
 "Mister, would you please help my pony? / I think it's his lung" |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 09:07:14
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quote:
Originally posted by i_bleed
Here's a treat that someone tuned me into on the www.pixiesmusic.com site under a Ween thread. Just go to www.justconcerts.ca and do search there on Ween. They have last October's Vancouver show available via streaming audio for free. It's got a set list there too so you could cross reference the songs with what albums they appear on. It's a really good quality live recording...
"when you look at the sky in a poetic kind of way..."
Oh sure, so you're reading my posts on other boards but not here. :)
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 09:17:36
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I'm with Speedy M, Chocolate Cheese is the beginning of their albums where they appear to be interested in songwriting as well as experimentation. Interestingly, I did as Dr. Wood said in that exact order. White Pepper, The Mollusk, Chocolate & Cheese, Quebec. I am now on Pure Guava, but am quite turned off. These songs are just so much better (read: listenable) live. I honestly could hardly stand Pure Guava the album but I love C&C. That suggests to me that C&C is more groupable with their newer than older stuff. More about music than sound, if that makes sense.
I've listened to 12 Golden Country Greats a couple times and I think I'll get into it eventually. I guess I'm just not amused by vulgar for the sake of vulgar. "<gasp> He said dick!" Seems a litte grade 6ish. I can find humour in clever usage, but to throw it in there for the hell of it, not my cup of tea. Then again, this might be the funniest lyric of all time:
Who let the motherfuckin' cheese out? / I don't know.
And yes, Quebec is brimming with amazing soundscapes. I personally love Happy Coloured Marbles and Zoloft as well. In conclusion, I like their new stuff (which C&C I consider a part of), I don't like their old stuff except live, and "pussy".
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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Atheist4Catholics
= Cult of Ray =
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 12:40:28
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quote:
Originally posted by TarTar
quote:
Atheist4Catholics wrote: It's mostly due to a lack of studio experimentation and also very uneven lyrics that are x-rated and ironic one minute and sickingly sentimental the next.
I must strongly disagree with this, for several reasons. First of all, I don't understand how you can say there is a lack of studio experimentation. Quebec has The Fucked Jam, which has a badass beat with minced up, unintelligable, tweaked out vocals over the top of it. And that's all it is, repeating for 3 minutes. This doesn't seem like they are trying to prove themselves as songwriters, it seems like two guys fucking around with sound in the studio. Plus, Quebec has a beautiful sonic landscape underneath nearly every song. Among His Tribe has so many little noises lurking that it feels like walking through a woods of guitars, synths, wind instruments, undiscovered creatures. So Many People In The Neighborhood has all the bizarre, wacky noises and is very stereo-friendly, with fucked up vocals and an incredibly intense breakdown. There's plenty of old-school brown Ween on Quebec, it's basically a hi-fi version of the Pod, but they have matured as songwriters and performers, so there is plenty of great songs as well, but I think it's a good balance between brown Ween and accessible Ween.
Lyrically, I don't think they have been x-rated in quite a while. White Pepper had one line about sucking dick, and it wasn't surrounded by sentimental lyrics but just sort of quirky, odd lyrics. The first track on Quebec refers to drug use and partying hard, but nothing x-rated, and that's about as immoral as the record gets lyrically. There were far more vulgar lyrics surrounded by sentimentality on Chocolate and Cheese (Baby Bitch is a great example). But really, they've always kept the vulgar lyrics and the sweeter more innocent lyrics in seperate songs. Like Guava has Goin' Gets Tough, Reggaejunkiejew, Play It Off Legit, and Pumpin' 4 The Man all in a row, and each of those songs is vulgar and fucked up, but songs like Sarah and Loving U Thru It All don't have any cussing or hint at foul things.
I think they don't get the same kick they used to at being vulgar. It's too easy. They seem to want to write good songs, but interesting and weird stuff as well. But they've basically dropped the scummier side of their lyrics altogether, with an occasional throw back to the dirtier stuff ("I came in your mouth" from If You Could Save Yourself You'd Save Us All).
"You're muckin' with a G here!"
The fucked jam is mildly interesting at first, but by the end is a one trick pony. The only track I find on par with earlier Ween is Happy Coloured Marbles.
The lyric you mentioned from If You Could Save Yourself is case in point what I meant by uneven lyrics. What place does the line "I came in your mouth" have in an otherwise horribly sentimental ballad? The thing that attracted me to ween in the first place was the way they satired every musical style consistently well. Now they seem more interested in being genuine and it's less interesting. Their lyrics have always been progressive rock nonsense which worked and was funny when they were satirical, but now I feel like they're being serious when they sing that drivel.
It seems like most people are divided between liking the early ween or later ween. I prefer interesting songs to studio craft so am partial to the earlier records. If I were to rate them it'd be something like this:
C&C
Godweensatan
The Mollusk
Pure Guava
The Pod
12 Country Greats
Quebec
White Pepper
Maybe bedrock should buy C&C and then The Mollusk and if he likes the direction they went in he could continue on the new Ween thread, if not, he could buy the old ween ones. I don't think anyone here has disputed the greatness of C&C.
"Join the Cult of Frank / or The Clops gets it!" |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 13:06:00
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Yeah, it seems C&C is there most widely accepted album at least in this thread... though perhaps nobody's absolute favourite? Interesting.
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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fumanbru
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1462 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 21:22:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
...I've listened to 12 Golden Country Greats a couple times and I think I'll get into it eventually. I guess I'm just not amused by vulgar for the sake of vulgar. "<gasp> He said dick!" Seems a litte grade 6ish. I can find humour in clever usage, but to throw it in there for the hell of it, not my cup of tea....
[i]"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened"
he said dick. that fuckin cracks me up. i guess i have a weak spot for the potty mouth humour. but unfortunatley my wife isn't a big fan of the potty mouth. i have to give her a few beers before she can appreciate such classic songs as piss up a rope.
"Uh, you can piss up a rope and feel the pissy dribble
You can piss up a rope and watch me giggle
For the last 6 months I been packin' your bag
You can wash my balls with a warm, wet rag
Till my balls feel smooth and soft like silk
I'm sick of your mouth and your 2 percent milk
And I'm no dope, but I've lost all hope
So hit the fuckin' road and piss up a rope"
lyrics almost as brilliant as frank.
(another favorite of mine is big balls by acdc.)
"I joined the Cult of Frank/ and I got a free t-shirt with this dude on it." |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2004 : 07:25:25
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A friend of mine has a couple of their albums, plus I think he's seen 'em live, but I've only heard a couple of songs....'Push The Little Daisies' and 'Freedom Of '76'-"Manniquin was filmed at Woolworths!" FB picked the 'Daisies' vid for 120 Minutes on MTV some years back....
CARL.
"ME TOO!"
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Edited by - Carl on 03/05/2004 07:26:41 |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2004 : 08:36:58
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I have White Pepper only and love it dearly.
--
"You one of those right-wing nut outfits?" inquired the diplomatic Metzger.
Fallopian twinkled. "They accuse us of being paranoids."
"They?" inquired Metzger, twinkling also.
"Us?" asked Oedipa.
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2004 : 12:29:52
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Well Jeez, Newo, pick up "quebec". It's similar to White Pepper in production (and in a few cases, song-style), but also displays Ween's more fucked up side.
"You're muckin' with a G here!" |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2004 : 09:31:17
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Thatīs exactly what I felt was missing from the record, from what I had heard about them from friends.
--
"You one of those right-wing nut outfits?" inquired the diplomatic Metzger.
Fallopian twinkled. "They accuse us of being paranoids."
"They?" inquired Metzger, twinkling also.
"Us?" asked Oedipa.
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 02:39:26
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*Update*
I've bought both White Pepper and Quebec.
Both were softer and more mainstream than I was expecting for some reason. I've heard snippets of their earlier albums and they do seem to have radically altered their writing and singing style on the last couple of albums.
Still, I have listened to the albums a lot over the last 2 weeks so something's got me interested. 'Bananas and blow' got me chuckling. Zoloft, Transdermal Celebration, Flutes Of Chi are very very good.
Might try Mollusk next.
"The Pixies are reforming?? / I say bring back Abba, ahaaa!!!" |
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prozacrat
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1186 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 03:08:24
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I would highly recommend that. I'm a hardcore Chocolate & Cheese fan, though, and I would suggest that, too. All their albums are great. It all pretty much comes down to your personal taste. I think we'll all agree that Ween is a powerhouse of musical genius. That pretty much goes without saying. But what part of that powerhouse gets your juices flowin'? Ay, there's the rub. I just found Ween's All Request Live at a store, which I thought was only available through their website. It is a very, very good album, done live in a studio for a web broadcast. The quality is amazing and they play a delightful mix of their old and new songs, along with, for the first time, The Stallion Parts 1-5. I'd say hit The Mollusk, Chocolate & Cheese, and nab their All Request Live off of their web site. You'll feel all warm and fuzzy. Then try for their earlier stuff. That's just my advice though.
"And her head has no room." |
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Ween
