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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
 Posted - 03/01/2004 : 18:33:30
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I don't really. Never been. Just wanted to do a spin-off for those who have missed my award winning post over in the pixies section. Where a bunch of people shouted at me for saying the pixies were English.
To have some relevance:
I watched bowling for columbine recently and as someone pointed out you can't believe everything one seemingly biased filmmaker says,but facts speak for themselves. I assume alot of that shows america in the worst light, but the gun thing astounded me. 150,000 deaths compared to our 40 or whatever it was, is amazing and the fact that there is a ridiculous amount of poverty and corruptness there makes me glad I live here. On the other hand if someone made bowling for ...manchester I'd probably find out alot about this country that I don't really know. The locked doors thing and guns and pollution is just crazy though.
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna* |
Edited by - Malax on 03/03/2004 17:06:30 |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2004 : 19:30:42
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One thing you should know about Michael Moore, "hating America" has made the guy a fucking millionaire. You'd be pumping out the "manchester sucks" documentaries too if you were reelin in the dough. I'm no patriot and never will be, but Michael Moore playin up the working class trucker hat look is insulting to people who don't live in a 1.9 million dollar flat in Manhatten New York (like he finally admitted he does).
Never doubt the power of a well made documentary, I know it's an extreme example, but look at Triumph Of the Will, it convinced a population Hitler was a god. Bowling for Columbine was a thought provoking film, but Moore took quite a few liberties. Basically, if you look hard enough, every place on earth is completely screwed up. The media lies, politicians lie, ext ext. You can point a camera at anyone and start asking big questions, and sooner or later they're going to fuck up and say something incredibly stupid or offensive. It's just a matter editing the material to get the most "shock value" (see: the poor, senile Charlton Heston interview. The guy's just an old decrepid ass, old people tend to be politically incorrect, of course you're going to get good stuff out of him)
And yes, statistically America does have a whole lotta guns and violence, but I've never witnessed a shooting, heard of a shooting close to me, ext. Some areas are very dangerous, but they tend to be few and far between. I remember reading back in the 1950's, when Westerns were huge, there was this huge misconception in many countries that America was just a place full of shootouts and ghost towns. That west didn't even actually exist. It's all fabrication. 'Cept for the senseless killing of Native Americans, that really happened (just to show I'm trying to be objective here). |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2004 : 19:33:25
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One thing you should know about Michael Moore, "hating America" has made the guy a fucking millionaire. You'd be pumping out the "manchester sucks" documentaries too if you were reelin in the dough. I'm no patriot and never will be, but Michael Moore playin up the working class trucker hat look is insulting to people who don't live in a 1.9 million dollar flat in Manhatten New York (like he finally admitted he does).
Never doubt the power of a well made documentary, I know it's an extreme example, but look at Triumph Of the Will, it convinced a population Hitler was a god. Bowling for Columbine was a thought provoking film, but Moore took quite a few liberties. Basically, if you look hard enough, every place on earth is completely screwed up. The media lies, politicians lie, ext ext. You can point a camera at anyone and start asking big questions, and sooner or later they're going to fuck up and say something incredibly stupid or offensive. It's just a matter editing the material to get the most "shock value" (see: the poor, senile Charlton Heston interview. The guy's just an old decrepid ass, old people tend to be politically incorrect, of course you're going to get good stuff out of him)
And yes, statistically America does have a whole lotta guns and violence, but I've never witnessed a shooting, heard of a shooting close to me, ext. Some areas are very dangerous, but they tend to be few and far between. I remember reading back in the 1950's, when Westerns were huge, there was this huge misconception in many countries that America was just a place full of shootouts and ghost towns. That west didn't even actually exist. It's all fabrication. 'Cept for the senseless killing of Native Americans, that really happened (just to show I'm trying to be objective here). |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2004 : 21:21:48
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i read this great article in an old anthology of might magazine about a guy basically trying to "michael moore" michael moore - ie. stick a camera in his face in the lobby of his apartment building, dress up in a gorilla suit and stalk the guy going from his limo (yes limo...back in the mid 90s he was already in limos) to his office, and get moore on the phone - and failed at all of it. for a guy who claims to be such a working man, so normal, the guy is totally distanced from his public. i mean, i do enjoy moore's work and i sympathize a lot w/ his politics (not a bush fan in the slightest), but he's a propagandist - a good one, but he's still full of shit
-brian
 - "I joined the Cult of Frank / And they tried to cut off my nuts and make me put in a blue jumpsuit"
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 05:01:47
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If it´s any consolation, the people who run my country are just as violent, graceless and spiritually dead.
--
"You one of those right-wing nut outfits?" inquired the diplomatic Metzger.
Fallopian twinkled. "They accuse us of being paranoids."
"They?" inquired Metzger, twinkling also.
"Us?" asked Oedipa.
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EdBudd
- FB Fan -
63 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 08:57:59
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Malax,
According to the center for disease control the number of gun related deaths in the US was about 30,000 in 1998 and is dropping by five percent a year for the last twenty years. I dont know how may deaths were quoted in bowling for columbine, but 30,000 is way less than 150,000! If you add the fact that the US population is five times that of the UK there is little difference. I noticed that people from the UK are quite concerned with this issue. Bottom line for anyone bashing the US is get your facts in tact, and be thankful. Without the US, this world might be alot different. |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 09:33:20
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LOL. yeah, there is little difference between 200 (40x5) and 30,000 (or whatever it is if you count the five percent drop) :)
Anyway, I started writing a thing ages ago, "America sucks!!!11" but I never finished it because I'm lazy. It's basically me just ripping off a few books I was reading anyway and is probably badly written, but here it is:
A leading academic specialist Lars Schoultz produced an article pointing out the disturbingly close relationship between the amount of US military aid and human rights abuses in Latin America, i.e. more US aid is given to Latin American governments which torture their citizens and are violators of human rights. Why would the US be so interested in torture? Another study was done by Edward Herman which showed a high correlation between US aid and improvement in the investment culture. As soon as a country improves opportunities for investment etc., aid goes up.
The first study now makes sense, seeing as one of the best ways to improve a countries investment culture is to murder unionists, peasant leaders and undermine social programs. Is the aid given really about providing support for those worse off?
In the 1980, the “War on Terror” began in Central America and the Middle East. The US attacked on country, Nicaragua, so violently that tens of thousands of people were killed and the country virtually destroyed. They complained to the World Court, which condemned the US of international terrorism and demanded that they pay reparations. Indeed, the US retaliated by stepping up their use of force and actually gave orders to attack “soft targets,” e.g. health clinics. Nicaragua then went to the UN Security Council but of course the US vetoed any kind of action.
The leader of the “War on Terror” was condemned by the World Court for international terrorism and vetoed a resolution calling on all states to observe international laws. The only one, too, I believe. Nicaragua, however, had an army to defend itself. Guatemala for example had only its population to defend itself and as a result suffered far worse.
The shocking part is, not many people know any of this. This information isn't widely available, yet is easy enough to get hold of if you wanted.
In the Middle East, another focus point for America’s “War on Terror”, it was true that there were many terrorist states, namely Israel, with its invasion of Lebanon in 1982. Twenty thousand people were killed. It was blatant international terrorism, yet it was allowed to happen because the US let it happen; they gave it the thumbs up and provided the arms. They also vetoed any UN Security Council resolution that attempted to put and end to it and punish those responsible. It is worth pointing out that calling this international terrorism is mild claim. It would be easy to argue this is outright aggression and that the US and Israeli leadership should be tried.
Again, the real reason behind this attack is not known by most people, quite significantly including the US population. It took twenty years for it to be reported, and even then it is in a sentenced buried deeply in a New York Times article printed on January 24, 2002. It was a war for the West Bank, to eradicate the thread of Palestinian negotiations, something that Israel did not want.
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 09:38:58
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quote:
Originally posted by EdBudd
Malax,
According to the center for disease control the number of gun related deaths in the US was about 30,000 in 1998 and is dropping by five percent a year for the last twenty years. I dont know how may deaths were quoted in bowling for columbine, but 30,000 is way less than 150,000! If you add the fact that the US population is five times that of the UK there is little difference. I noticed that people from the UK are quite concerned with this issue. Bottom line for anyone bashing the US is get your facts in tact, and be thankful. Without the US, this world might be alot different.
Edbudd - don't think you've quite got your facts right here. Check out this website:
http://www.gun-control-network.org/facts.htm
In 1999 there were 4.08 homicide deaths per 100,000 population in the USA. Only 0.12 in the UK. I work this out to be approx. 10,200 deaths in the States, 66 in the UK. Quite a difference!!
Also 5 people killed themselves or others unintentionally in the UK. The figure for the US was 1,050 people. More guns = more deaths, whether intentional or otherwise.
I think Malax was just throwing a few figures around.
The USA statistics are harrowing.
 "The Pixies are reforming?? / I say bring back Abba, ahaaa!!!" |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 09:43:46
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An afterthought. Are North Americans aware of the tight controls on guns here in the UK? From the same website in the above post:
Handguns
The two 1997 Firearms (Amendment) Acts resulted in the prohibition of the vast majority of handguns in Great Britain. As a result of the prohibition and the surrender exercise, more than 162,000 handguns were handed in to local police forces.
Handgun Surrender and Compensation. Report by the Comptroller and Auditor General NAO, 1999.
"The Pixies are reforming?? / I say bring back Abba, ahaaa!!!" |
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EdBudd
- FB Fan -
63 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 10:09:54
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| First off, gun control network is obviously a biased organization pushing for new gun laws. Thier objective is surely not to document statistics. We could argue the validity of sources till were blue in the face. And why is it that both Brittish and French forces either have in the past or continue to attack Afghan and Iraqi targets? Is it about peace or money? Bottom line is that every country is guilty of greed. Unfourtunately, it is neceesary to survival on this planet. So dont act like you or your country is some high and mighty defender of the peace and be thankful that you dont get terrorized to the extent of places like Nicaragua, Honduras, Zambia, Guatelmala, Panama, Vietnam, Isreal, Iraq, etc. |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 10:32:30
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I hate rehashing another gun rights argument, but I'd like to raise a couple points.
What about homicide rates in general, not counting the method? One gets the impression there would have been no US homicides if not for guns. Who is to say the killing would not have been committed with another weapon? Dead is dead, whether you were shot, stabbed, or had your head crushed. Obviously, using a gun would sometimes be "convenient", but I doubt convenience is a factor in most murders.
Also, no one ever mentions those who successfully defend themselves and/or their property with firearms. These stories are seldom told, yet they do happen. You probably have to read the NRA's American Rifleman magazine to learn about these. |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 10:34:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Malax
On the other hand if someone made bowling for ...manchester I'd probably find out alot about this country that I don't really know. .
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna*
Right seeing as I live there, I'm on the case!!!
To quote Michael 'Jackass' Jackson from 'Bo Selecta', I'm a doc-u-ment-ay making mother fucker!!! Eeh hee!!!
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 10:58:48
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europe has definetely lower crime\homicide rates than the us.lower handgun diffusion is only one of the factors. i think it's a society based thing mostly.americans are way too different.things that look absurd in europe are normal in the us.
 join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 11:11:17
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I'll watch it again and find the exact facts. I must have added an extra 0.Once again Im not saying I hate America. Just starting a topic really.
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna* |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 11:22:40
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quote:
Originally posted by BLT
I hate rehashing another gun rights argument, but I'd like to raise a couple points.
What about homicide rates in general, not counting the method? One gets the impression there would have been no US homicides if not for guns. Who is to say the killing would not have been committed with another weapon? Dead is dead, whether you were shot, stabbed, or had your head crushed. Obviously, using a gun would sometimes be "convenient", but I doubt convenience is a factor in most murders.
Also, no one ever mentions those who successfully defend themselves and/or their property with firearms. These stories are seldom told, yet they do happen. You probably have to read the NRA's American Rifleman magazine to learn about these.
Ok, I'm sticking to the gun crime stats - I'm not sure where Edbudd and Pixiesteve are heading.
BLT, to answer your question I've dug out some more stats:
Total murders in the US during 2002 - 16,110
Total murders in the UK during 2002 - 900
In the States you're much more likely to be murdered with the use of a gun (approx 60% of all murders). Uk stats appear to show that only 7% of murders are gun related.
"The Pixies are reforming?? / I say bring back Abba, ahaaa!!!" |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 11:24:10
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...and Malax, can you change the name of the thread? A bit inflammatory at the moment don't you think? (whether one's tongue is in one's cheek or not)
"The Pixies are reforming?? / I say bring back Abba, ahaaa!!!" |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 12:08:47
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quote:
Originally posted by bedrock_barney
...and Malax, can you change the name of the thread? A bit inflammatory at the moment don't you think? (whether one's tongue is in one's cheek or not)
Actually, please leave the name unchanged. Or, better yet, change the names of about half the active threads in this category to "I hate America" or "America sucks". Considering the frequency with which threads devolve into gratuitous America/Bush bashing, let's have a little truth in labelling. |
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EdBudd
- FB Fan -
63 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 12:47:04
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| Murders are different than gun related deaths because there are many accidental gun deaths. Again look at the population of the US vs. the UK. Considering the frequency with which threads devolve into gratuitous America/Bush bashing we should change the threads to "lets all bitch because we have no clue what we are talking about or are jealous of the lifestyle of other cultures". |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 13:10:04
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| BTW, I'm not acting like the country I live in, or I myself are defenders of the peace, given the chance we're just as bad. Except America has been a super power for decades now, it is far more powerful than britain or whatever, and has been commiting far worse crimes, acts of terrorism and aggression, etc. in the past few decades. One might argue that for a super power, they're not as bad as they could be. That doesn't mean it should be acceptable... they're still wankers :P |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 13:36:16
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quote:
Originally posted by PixieSteve
BTW, I'm not acting like the country I live in, or I myself are defenders of the peace, given the chance we're just as bad. Except America has been a super power for decades now, it is far more powerful than britain or whatever, and has been commiting far worse crimes, acts of terrorism and aggression, etc. in the past few decades. One might argue that for a super power, they're not as bad as they could be. That doesn't mean it should be acceptable... they're still wankers :P
American actions occurring prior to the fall of the Soviet Union need to be understood in the context of the Cold War, which is not to say that all such actions would thereby stand excused. If the European cultures of the world spent a rational amount on defense, the USA would not need to be a super power. Without the USA as super power, the power would be Chinese and then the whiners would actually have something to complain about. |
Edited by - Erebus on 03/02/2004 13:39:17 |
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EdBudd
- FB Fan -
63 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 14:01:29
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What is rational in terms of manpower?
Canadian armed forces=53,000
UK armed forces=207,000
US armed forces=1,400,000
Us armed forces from California alone=149,000
Call it pride. |
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MMD
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
233 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 08:25:37
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EdBudd either you are joking or you are delirious if you seriously think this is in any way about anyone here being jelous about the US's lifestyle, you fatass (hehe). Yours is the attitute that has made people from other countries less open to the US and you aren't doing a damn thing to change that. Also I hope you enjoy your government spending all your tax dollars on wars, I sure can't think of a better use for all that money like FEEDING THE HUNGRY.
“Not since Orson Welles had one man so many fingers in so many pies, and been the chef as well. And then looked like he went and ate them all. The guy was out of control.” |
Edited by - MMD on 03/03/2004 08:30:04 |
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EdBudd
- FB Fan -
63 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 11:47:23
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like Erebus said, "If the European cultures of the world spent a rational amount on defense, the USA would not need to be a super power. Without the USA as super power, the power would be Chinese and then the whiners would actually have something to complain about."
We spend time and money on world defence (or "wars") and have citizens to back up their country. The numbers above show that, you cant argue that. If we had a puny military you better believe that we would get pummled for our territory and/or resources. If anybody attacked Canada or the UK the US would be there defending YOUR country. This brings us to the question of why your countries are allies. Whether it is for the good of mankind, money, greed, resources it doesnt matter, Canada and the UK have never had a problem with the US when they really needed help. You scratch my back and Ill scratch yours type of thing. Do you know how much support the UK and France recieved from the US in WWII when the Nazis were trying to take over Eroupe? And to hear the negativity comming from you when we get attacked and want to do something about it chaps our asses. It sucks that innocent people have to die in the US, Afganistan, and Iraq but someone had to put their foot down after 911 with or without UN approval. You do not bomb buildings and kill thousands of innocent people in the US and get away with it. If this is the attitute that has made people from other countries less open to the US then fuck em.
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EdBudd
- FB Fan -
63 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 11:53:52
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| It looks like we dont have a hunger problem then doesnt it? So we can use the extra tax money to go terrorize the world? Fuck off. |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 12:01:55
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This thread is going nowhere.
"The Pixies are reforming?? / I say bring back Abba, ahaaa!!!" |
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 17:00:42
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Ha, god damn. I like reading all the posts in a topic I start, but this has gotten a little political on me. I'll leave that stuff to Dave Noisy.
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna* |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 17:36:29
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quote:
Originally posted by EdBudd
like Erebus said, "If the European cultures of the world spent a rational amount on defense, the USA would not need to be a super power. Without the USA as super power, the power would be Chinese and then the whiners would actually have something to complain about."
We spend time and money on world defence (or "wars") and have citizens to back up their country. The numbers above show that, you cant argue that. If we had a puny military you better believe that we would get pummled for our territory and/or resources. If anybody attacked Canada or the UK the US would be there defending YOUR country. This brings us to the question of why your countries are allies. Whether it is for the good of mankind, money, greed, resources it doesnt matter, Canada and the UK have never had a problem with the US when they really needed help. You scratch my back and Ill scratch yours type of thing. Do you know how much support the UK and France recieved from the US in WWII when the Nazis were trying to take over Eroupe? And to hear the negativity comming from you when we get attacked and want to do something about it chaps our asses. It sucks that innocent people have to die in the US, Afganistan, and Iraq but someone had to put their foot down after 911 with or without UN approval. You do not bomb buildings and kill thousands of innocent people in the US and get away with it. If this is the attitute that has made people from other countries less open to the US then fuck em.
please explain how the war on iraq can possibly be considered a defensive war since saddam a)didn't have the weapons that the bush admin claimed he had b)didn't have any connections with osama bin laden c)didn't provoke or attack any of the countries that moved war on him.moreover the us(and the uk and spain)knew in advance that he was not a menace(for western countries at least)and yet deliberately lied and falsified documents in order to have the un approval.now that looks like an invasion to me.the fact that americans like to think of it as democratization and liberation of Iraq means only that they are blind to reality.and the paragon with europe in ww2 is totally out of contest.remember that during ww2 the allies and occupied countries 1)ASKED for the us to help 2)they already had active internal resistance armies 3)the occupation was from a foreign army (not a native dictator) and it lasted less than 5 years(not almost 30 like saddam).that's why the us troops were considered allies and liberators and in iraq are seen as an occupation army(which is exactly what they are)
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 09:14:11
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"You do not bomb buildings and kill thousands of innocent people in the US and get away with it"
lol. |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 09:51:56
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quote:
Originally posted by PixieSteve
"You do not bomb buildings and kill thousands of innocent people in the US and get away with it"
lol.
"You do not bomb buildings and kill thousands of innocent
people in the US and get away with it!"
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 10:30:12
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| Am I the only one who thinks these last two posts are in very poor taste? |
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 10:50:15
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"please explain how the war on iraq can possibly be considered a defensive war since saddam a)didn't have the weapons that the bush admin claimed he had b)didn't have any connections with osama bin laden c)didn't provoke or attack any of the countries that moved war on him"
Not even half the story.
Saddam had shot at US and British planes over a thousand times in the 12-18 months leading up to the Liberation. How in the world can you miss a fact like that?
Kofi Annann and Hans Blix purported that Saddam had WMD. Less than 10 days before the LIBERATION Blix reiterated that Saddam had hundreds of gallons of anthrax. I think the actual quote is over a thousand, but, I'll err on the conservative side. So did Blair. Chirac was on record as stating that Iraq had WMD and that given time the inspectors would find it. It was the stated belief of the entire world for a decade before Bush came into office. How do you avoid facts like this??
The answer is that someone must put their brain into solitary confinement to believe half the shit that gets posted in this forum about the US/Bush. Letting the facts in will erode the childish illusion that there is a big, bad meanie in the US who is going around the world liberating muslims by the millions.
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 11:15:32
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| lol this stuff is really hard to read and not feel like crying. |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 11:29:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
Saddam had shot at US and British planes over a thousand times in the 12-18 months leading up to the Liberation. How in the world can you miss a fact like that?
you mean shooting at planes violating Iraqi airspace?what would YOU do if iraqis (backuped by others)decided some no-fly zones over the us?
Kofi Annann and Hans Blix purported that Saddam had WMD. Less than 10 days before the LIBERATION Blix reiterated that Saddam had hundreds of gallons of anthrax. I think the actual quote is over a thousand, but, I'll err on the conservative side. So did Blair. Chirac was on record as stating that Iraq had WMD and that given time the inspectors would find it.
if they were so sure about it 1)why did they falsificate inteligence documents 2)didn't find anything(after searching for 12!months)
The answer is that someone must put their brain into solitary confinement to believe half the shit that gets posted in this forum about the US/Bush. Letting the facts in will erode the childish illusion that there is a big, bad meanie in the US who is going around the world liberating muslims by the millions.
the fact is that you won't admit that others may see something you can't.if it's liberation why angry mobs lynch your soldiers(or blow them up or shoot at them or whatever)?why is it that you are still administrating Iraq instead of letting them do what the hell they want to?usually liberators are welcomed with flowers and not with car bombs.think instead of absorbing patriotic crap.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
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EdBudd
- FB Fan -
63 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 11:32:57
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"You do not bomb buildings and kill thousands of innocent fish in the US and get away with it"
lol.
[/quote]
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Dallas
= Cult of Ray =
USA
725 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 11:45:30
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If a US leader was filling the sand with hundreds of thousands of murdered citizens, I would pray daily that some great nation would establish a no-fly zone to keep the murderer at bay. Wouldn't you? What kind of a person defends Saddams right to murder ethnic tribes without resistance? That keeping him from genocide was an infringement of his rights? If you cant fight your way out of that moral-wet-paper-bag there is no amount of facts that can help you.
You said Bush claimed WMD's. All those I listed did...before Bush was President. Plus the falsified documents claim is bogus. What documents? Who altered it?
The car bombs you mention are not coming from the citizenry. They are coming from Saddams former henchman who know they have no place in a free Iraq as well as imported Al Queda and Islamist terrorists. Iraqi people are jubilant at their freedom. No calls for Saddams safe return to the throne, just calls for Saddams return for revenge.
I'll keep asking, how do avoid these very basic facts when forming your half-baked opinions? You are in the cult of Saddam, lamenting that he was harrassed while trying to kill hundreds of thousands of people by the US and Brits. Lamenting that HE led the world to believe that he had WMD's and would use them if provoked. Lamenting that millions upon millions of Iraqi's can live without fear of Government sanctioned rape and torture and genocide. Horror, what has the coalition of the willing DONE!?!?! |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 12:15:47
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Here goes... You suck, Dallas. It actually makes me physically sick that a fellow fan of Frank Black can be this ignorant. I'm not sure how Frank would feel about me involving him though.
Saddam was filling the sand with hundreds of thousands of murdered eh? OK, lets look at some of these famous mass-murders. It appears he often used chemical weapons, according to an american government website. The thing is, they don't state where he got these chemical weapons. Oh yeah, that was probably because it was the very people who are now suddenly anti-Saddam who provided him with the weapons. I guess it would look kinda stupid if they put it on their own website. They didn't even condemn these attacks either, I guess they didn't want to put that on there then. I don't understand though, why did America supply this evil dictatorship with weapons when they knew very well it could use them on its own people? It was because America installed him there in the first place. This can be explored more if you want to.
"It is correct that we had strong suspicions that anthrax could remain [in Iraq]. There is some difference between strong suspicions and assertions. ... Compare it with the language from the other sides [U.S./U.K.]." - Blix
I think it says that all, regarding your comment on Blix confirming these claims. Also, in the UK, a document was produced with "evidence" of WMDs etc. in Iraq. It has now been discovered that most of it was complete bullshit. Not a bogus claim by mun chien.
Oh blah blah. I'm not nearly finished. I jsut don't have the time, I went through this kind of stuff several times before and during the war.
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How I Stopped Worrying And Learned To Love America
