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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
 Posted - 02/19/2004 : 17:03:49
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Haha, no, this isn't a "which do you like more?" thread. I just watched both the films and feel like rambling about them.
Blue Velvet - there were a lot of great things about this film: the cintematography, the acting (Dennis Hopper is nice and FUCKED up, that word "fuck" being much of his performance), and the mood of the film were all great. I didn't find the story, especially the love story between the main character and Laura Dern, to be all that great, kinda tacked on. I liked some of the elements of the story, but overall, it was one of the less interesting parts of the film, though there many good scenes. It's nice to see a Lynch film that, while maybe weird compared to other filmmakers, was pretty straightforward.
12 Monkeys - I immensely enjoyed this movie. It took me a little bit to get into the story because I was confused, but once I figured out what was going on, it wasn't hard to follow at all, even though I felt like it should be much of the time. This was an incredibly clever film that wasn't mean-spirited (which I thought it would be for some reason), and instead just twists and turns but doesn't try to confuse the viewer, but doesn't necessarily spell everything out for the viewer either. And I felt it was quite unique. Even though they compared the plot to Hitchcock in the film itself, I felt it was original.
"You're muckin' with a G here!" |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2004 : 17:32:03
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Is this a "which do you like more?" thread. Cause it's Blue Velvet, for me. Definitely. 12 Monkeys is just a rip off. See the original (La jetée, it lasts only 30 minutes).
Have some wine, please, don't run away. |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2004 : 17:34:23
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12 monkeys is one of my favourite films ever.i never liked much blue velvet,or lynch's films in general.
 join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
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Picapiedra
- FB Fan -
121 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2004 : 17:39:07
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I own both. Today I'm feeling more into Blue Velvet. I may now have to find a copy of "La jetée" with english subtitles.
-roger.
"Drug run'n on this Panamanian schooner." |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2004 : 17:56:42
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i'd hardly consider 12 MONKEYS a rip off of LA JETEE. they're completely different films.
and besides, 12 MONKEYS doesn't hide the fact that it's inspired by LA JETEE. in the opening credits it says "inspired by LA JETEE".. which is the first usage of an "inspired by" credit by the way.. it's not quite a re-make, but it's not quite totally original. so "inspired by" is fitting.. as opposed to "based on"
a "rip off" is when a film blatanly steals from another film without giving credit.. or paying homage to.. 12 MONKEYS totally respects it's LA JETEE influence.. but still, they're SUCH different films.
12 MONKEYS is one of my favorite films of all time, i have to say.. there's so much going on in that film.. another film that it pays homage to, though more subtly, is Hitchcock's VERTIGO. there are more similarities to VERTIGO than there are to LA JETEE really.. but they're references, not rip offs.. (there's even a scene in the film where the characters are watching VERTIGO in a theatre)
but yeah, great film. filled with many paradoxes and thought-provoking puzzles.. the kind of film you can watch over and over (i can anyway).. and all the performances are stellar, including (yes) Bruce Willis and Brad Pitt. i think it's one of Brad Pitt's best roles.. (i heard that he forced himself to quit smoking pot during the shooting of it so he could pull off the manic craziness better - which worked)..
i fucking love 12 MONKEYS.. |
Edited by - floop on 02/19/2004 17:58:36 |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2004 : 18:32:00
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I thought 12 MONKEYS to be slightly Hollywood, even for Gilliam. I'm not saying I wasn't entertained, but I wasn't moved, or inspired. BUT that's just my opinion. Tastes vary. Now LA JETEE is a minor masterpiece in experimental film history. I had read a lot about this short film years before actually viewing it because I had no access to it! So when I finally saw it (after 12 MONKEYS, mind you), I was floored. A spooky and textured nightmare. 12 MONKEYS to me was a colorful mayhem...fun, and that's it.
BLUE VELVET....I wont EVEN go there. That's like comparing Frank Black to the Spin Doctors. Only two films outweigh it's importance, in my opinion. 8 1/2 and North By Northwest.
I know this thread was not a comparison thread...and I'm sorry for the obvious comparison.
Catchin' blue in his eyes that were brown
-bRIAN |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2004 : 20:41:39
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Twin Peaks pie recipe (in German)
http://www.davidlynch.de/hungry.html
I'll be back to get your plates......
tomorrow
666 Dunkin' Donuts, a 20-inch veggie pizza from Gumby's, extra jalapenos on the side. And a case of Asahi Dry - |
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Atheist4Catholics
= Cult of Ray =
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2004 : 22:01:35
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Let's be honest now.
They both suck.
Apart from a few great Hopper scenes and a decent Brad Pitt performance. (and two great soundtracks) I like nearly everything else Gilliam and Lynch have done.
 "Join the Cult of Frank / or The Clops gets it!" |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2004 : 22:45:39
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quote:
Originally posted by TRANSMARINE
I thought 12 MONKEYS to be slightly Hollywood, even for Gilliam. I'm not saying I wasn't entertained, but I wasn't moved, or inspired. BUT that's just my opinion. Tastes vary. Now LA JETEE is a minor masterpiece in experimental film history. I had read a lot about this short film years before actually viewing it because I had no access to it! So when I finally saw it (after 12 MONKEYS, mind you), I was floored. A spooky and textured nightmare. 12 MONKEYS to me was a colorful mayhem...fun, and that's it.
LA JETEE is a great film no doubt. i wasn't comparing LA JETEE and 12 MONKEYS.. just defending the "rip off" allegations. 12 MONKEYS can't be considered a rip off since it explicitly states that it was "inspired by" the film.
i just love the theme of circularity in 12 MONKEYS, and how Gilliam visually expresses it. 12 MONKEYS has as much to do with VERTIGO, thematically, than it does with LA JETEE. that whole theme of characters doomed to repeat their fates over and over.. i didn't find 12 MONKEYS very Hollywood myself.. the ending is pretty ambiguous and cerebral, which is very un-Hollywood. but yeah, there are major stars.
it's more of a thematic thing, but i think 12 MONKEYS has more in common with VERTIGO than LA JETEE. that's my personal manifesto anyway.. there's a whole scene where they're watching VERTIGO in the theatre, and the scene they're watching totally reflects what's going on in their film.. and there are tons of visual references to VERTIGO throughout.. the coolest being: there's a shot of James Cole in prison that uses a technique that Hitchcock pioneered in VERTIGO where the camera simultaneously dollys out and zooms in, creating this uneasy feeling where it feels like the perspective is changing but staying the same at the same time (Scorsese uses it in GOODFELLAS too).. |
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cvanepps
= Cult of Ray =
USA
442 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2004 : 04:58:08
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I've heard something about 12 MONKEYS being similar, thematically, to one of Hitchcock's films...it was the one with Kim Novak and Jimmy Stewart...I can't remember the name of it. Anyway, I find Brad Pitt quite annoying in 12 MONKEYS, and therefore, difficult to watch.
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man =-
http://christophervanepps.iuma.com |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2004 : 09:54:31
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There's a bit in 12 Monkeys in a cinema where a scene from that movie is playing, I think. Comparing those 2 because you just seen 'em both? Pitt is a bit much in 12 Monkeys. Blue Velvet is cool, would'nt say it's my fave Lynch....In Heaven, everything is fine!!
CARL.
 "ME TOO!"
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2004 : 09:58:22
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| dude, is no one reading my posts or what?? |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2004 : 10:18:39
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I posted almost the exact same message you just did floop, but my computer locked up and so it didn't go through. What's the deal with so many people on this board posting redundant shit that coudl be prevented if people would read other people's shit before getting a hard-on to up their post count
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a Spike Lee Joint |
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cvanepps
= Cult of Ray =
USA
442 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2004 : 13:23:11
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
dude, is no one reading my posts or what??
I was joking, floop: poking fun at how many times you mention that 12 Monkeys is similar to Vertigo.
See there? Subtlety and nuance are not possible in a forum!
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man =-
http://christophervanepps.iuma.com |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2004 : 13:27:39
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quote:
Originally posted by cvanepps
quote:
Originally posted by floop
dude, is no one reading my posts or what??
I was joking, floop: poking fun at how many times you mention that 12 Monkeys is similar to Vertigo.
See there? Subtlety and nuance are not possible in a forum!
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man =-
http://christophervanepps.iuma.com
that's funny.. sorry, i didn't get it.
by the way, did i mention that 12 MONKEYS is similar to VERTIGO? |
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mcmikey
= Cult of Ray =
799 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2004 : 13:29:22
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12 MONKEYS reminds me quite a bit of Vertigo. it's a Hitchcock movie. Floop, do you know that movie? I think you'd like it
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a Spike Lee Joint |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2004 : 13:39:31
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mcmikey, yeah.. i heard that somewhere. .. isn't BLUE VELVET a Hitchcock movie too?
hey, speaking of BLUE VELVET, check out this groovy Turkish poster:
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2004 : 15:39:57
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| Isn't it surprising how many good movies Bruce Willis has been in (12 Monkeys, Pulp Fiction, The Sixth Sense, Bandits, even Die Hard was good for what it was). He must have a good agent. |
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2004 : 00:38:56
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Bruce Willis - filmography (from www.imdb.com)
Die Hard 4: Die Hardest (2005) (announced) .... John McClane
Hostage (2004) (filming) .... Jeff Talley
Whole Ten Yards, The (2004) .... Jimmy 'The Tulip' Tudeski
Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle (2003) (uncredited) .... William Rose Bailey
Rugrats Go Wild! (2003) (voice) .... Spike
Tears of the Sun (2003) .... Lt. A.K. Waters
True West (2002) (TV) .... Lee
Grand Champion (2002)
Hart's War (2002) .... Col. William A. McNamara
Bandits (2001) .... Joe Blake
Unbreakable (2000) .... David Dunn
Kid, The (2000) .... Russell Duritz
... aka Disney's The Kid (2000) (USA: complete title)
Whole Nine Yards, The (2000) .... Jimmy 'The Tulip' Tudeski
... aka Nouveau voisin, Le (2000) (Canada: French title)
Story of Us, The (1999) .... Ben Jordan
Sixth Sense, The (1999) .... Malcolm Crowe
Breakfast of Champions (1999) .... Dwayne Hoover
Apocalypse (1998/II) (VG) .... Trey Kincaide
Siege, The (1998) .... Major General William Devereaux
Armageddon (1998) .... Harry S. Stamper
Mercury Rising (1998) .... Art Jeffries
Jackal, The (1997) .... The Jackal
... aka Chacal, Le (1998) (France: dubbed version)
... aka Schakal, Der (1998) (Germany)
Fifth Element, The (1997) .... Major Korben Dallas
... aka Cinquième élément, Le (1997) (France)
Bruno the Kid: The Animated Movie (1996) (V) .... Bruno the Kid
Beavis and Butt-head Do America (1996) (voice) .... Muddy Grimes
Last Man Standing (1996) .... John Smith
"Bruno the Kid" (1996) TV Series (voice) .... Bruno the Kid
Twelve Monkeys (1995) .... James Cole
Four Rooms (1995) (uncredited) .... Leo (segment "The Man from Hollywood")
Die Hard: With a Vengeance (1995) .... John McClane
... aka Die Hard 3 (1995)
Nobody's Fool (1994) .... Carl Roebuck
Pulp Fiction (1994) .... Butch Coolidge
Color of Night (1994) .... Dr. Bill Capa
North (1994) .... Narrator
Striking Distance (1993) .... Tom Hardy
Loaded Weapon 1 (1993) (uncredited) .... John McClane, 814 Pacific Coast Highway
... aka National Lampoon's Loaded Weapon 1 (1993)
Death Becomes Her (1992) .... Dr. Ernest Menville
Last Boy Scout, The (1991) .... Joe Cornelius Hallenbeck
Billy Bathgate (1991) .... Bo Weinberg
Hudson Hawk (1991) .... Eddie 'Hudson Hawk' Hawkins
Mortal Thoughts (1991) .... James Urbanski
Bonfire of the Vanities, The (1990) .... Peter Fallow
Look Who's Talking Too (1990) (voice) .... Mikey
Die Hard 2 (1990) .... John McClane
... aka Die Hard 2: Die Harder (1990) (USA: video box title)
Look Who's Talking (1989) (voice) .... Mikey
... aka Daddy's Home (1989)
In Country (1989) .... Emmett Smith
Return of Bruno, The (1988) .... Bruno Radolini
Die Hard (1988) .... John McClane
Sunset (1988) .... Tom Mix
Blind Date (1987) .... Walter Davis
... aka Blake Edwards' Blind Date (1987) (USA: complete title)
"Moonlighting" (1985) TV Series .... David Addison Jr. (1985-1989)
Moonlighting (1985) (TV) .... David Addison Jr.
Verdict, The (1982) (uncredited) .... Courtroom Observer
Guru kommt, Ein (1980) (uncredited) .... Extra
First Deadly Sin, The (1980) (uncredited) .... Man Entering Diner as Delaney Leaves
"You're muckin' with a G here!" |
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offerw
* Dog in the Sand *
South Africa
1264 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2004 : 23:52:58
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Blue Velvet was a HUGE movie for me. It introduced me to a new world in film just like Pixies, The Clash, Velvet Underground opened my eyes to new music. 12 Monkeys doesn't come close....
LA JETEE!!! I haven't heard of it but now I'm very curious. Where can I find it. |
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SpudBoy
= Cult of Ray =
Equatorial Guinea
649 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2004 : 14:59:22
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I continue to mine the thread fields...
I'll have to go back and re-watch 12 Monkeys. I remember it being good, but it did not leave the kind of impression that Blue Velvet did on my psyche. That movie hit me at an impressionable time, and showed me a completely new perspective on the human condition in a very believable way, whereas 12 Monkeys seemed like sci fi to my current recollection.
Heineken?!? FUCK THAT SHIT!!! PABST BLUE RIBBON!!!
*festoon* |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2004 : 15:40:36
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hey Spudboy,
in case you didn't know, 12 MONKEYS is very similar to VERTIGO. lots of references in there, and similarities in theme. check it out!
die quesadillas von LBF lecken skrotum! hahahahahahahhahahaa! |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2004 : 16:03:26
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Weird, I just watched 12 Monkeys last night. It reminded me of some other film, it may have been 'North By Northwest'.
Blue Velvet is good, but I like it for its atmosphere rather than anything else - although I could say the same thing about every David Lynch film I've watched, its not my favourite (I think that's probably Lost Highway).
I like 12 Monkeys alot. I don't think it's a stone cold classic, but I think its very very good, and the performances are brilliant, especially Brad Pitt.
My housemate came in while I was watching the video yesterday and said: "ah, 12 Monkeys. I think this would've been better if they made it as a straight Hollywood blockbuster"
[cue sound of head banging against wall]
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts |
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2004 : 16:38:00
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I recently watched the Elephant Man and that shit tripped me out. The film isn't even bizarre in it's structure, and there's only a few scenes that have the blatant abstract touch to them, and they seem to be representative of events that happened rather than actually documenting how events unfolded, but still, something about the tone of that movie made an incredible impression on me. Perhaps it is that the character the Elephant Man (named John Merrick in the film) is the most kind and humane character ever to appear in a Lynch film, and yet he's scorned because he is deformed. Plus, Anthony Hopkins and Anne Banncroft give some marvelous performances as people who come to this unfortunate man's rescue and show him love. It was honestly the most beautiful Lynch film I've ever seen. Not necessarily because of how it looked or because it had amazing twists in it, but because it really proves that there is humanity underneath all of what Lynch does, he isn't cynical or necessarily even absurdist, he simply likes to toy around with ideas and try new things and not have everything spelled out. But he certainly isn't the nihlist that many believe him to be.
"There is a new craze in the nation/ it is lamination/ we like to laminate/ we laminate our driver's license/ so cannot be changed" |
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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2004 : 17:00:19
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I got a boner watching Blue Velvet. I could never sit through 12 monkies, Ifucking love 11 monkies only I guess.
I own both...
The French one , (le jetee, or whatever...)I too have never heard of and probably will never be fortunate enough to see... =(
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And fuck you and your stupid quesadillas Floop-fuck!
Wait until I talk to my translator, I'm paying you back foir that one Floop-fuckity-fuck-fuck-fuck!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
suce ma bite enculé de ta merehehehahhahehehaha |
Edited by - Little Black Francis on 07/10/2004 17:01:54 |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2004 : 17:26:10
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I hate blue velvet, I bought it because some pretentious arse I know (who I was stupid enough to listen to) raved to me about this film.. it's seminal... it's amazing.. it's dark.. its DULL
12 monkeys is ok though, I wouldn't go out of my way to switch it off. It's not as bad as the bloody wishmaster which I had the unfortunate experience of just watching.. or this cruddy soft porn on channel 5, superglued his cock inside her... I ask you...
Frank Black ate my Hamster
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2004 : 18:30:15
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wow... tre... i must say... that's a lot of elipsis...
"There is a new craze in the nation/ it is lamination/ we like to laminate/ we laminate our driver's license/ so cannot be changed" |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2004 : 18:40:52
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elipsisisisisisis........ I don't....... quite..... know....... what you mean! ( )
Frank Black ate my Hamster
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2004 : 18:43:44
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that's................................................cool.
wanna smoke?
"There is a new craze in the nation/ it is lamination/ we like to laminate/ we laminate our driver's license/ so cannot be changed" |
Edited by - TarTar on 07/10/2004 18:44:29 |
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2004 : 19:43:25
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Not seen 12 monkeys since the days of video (oh, back in the day) I remember it finishing and me, my brother,sister and mother looked at each other. We all sort of agreed that, that was a good film, the only other film to do that was the green mile (were we all cried). Its the sort of film that when it ended I still felt as though I was watching it. Should probably watch it again.
Never seen blue velvet, not a fan of the lynch stuff I've seen, so I don't care.
I May've Joined The Cult Of Frank If I Knew What The Balls Was Going On.
*Adapted By Carolynanna* |
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Blue Velvet vs. 12 Monkeys
