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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
 Posted - 06/15/2022 : 09:47:32
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BTE is as close as a modern day FBF classic could get
Tom is still a good choice for what they want now
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
957 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2022 : 09:55:37
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I suspect there's other FBF classics in him that are not being let out because of Dalgety and his generic producing style and song choices, honestly.
I like BTE. But it's probably like my 15th favorite album FBF has made. |
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1335 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2022 : 09:57:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
It definitely is. I think them making their third record together and us having access to a podcast where you could literally hear Dalgety proud of forcing some bad ideas on the band is as perfect a time to discuss him and what he's doing with the Pixies.
The question may be, if it WASN'T for Dalgety, what would we be getting? Worse albums? Better? Fewer? More? Genuinely don't know.
Honestly I think we may have got nothing. After the meh reaction in many quarters to Indie Cindy I feared that might be it for Pixies records. I definitely see the situation we have now as very more than glass half full. And I agree with Bill Goodman BTE + demos is magnifique!
BTW There's a Moon On has really clicked for me. I think it's great. Even the 'dumb' lyrics work once you get used to it. And more than that discounting production I think the song has more in common stylistically with the BTE demos than BTE! |
Edited by - Sprite on 06/15/2022 10:07:23 |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3151 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2022 : 10:42:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
It definitely is. I think them making their third record together and us having access to a podcast where you could literally hear Dalgety proud of forcing some bad ideas on the band is as perfect a time to discuss him and what he's doing with the Pixies.
The question may be, if it WASN'T for Dalgety, what would we be getting? Worse albums? Better? Fewer? More? Genuinely don't know.
I'm with you on that, I just meant in relation to Mrs. John Murphy.
I would like to see some of these questions asked to Dalgety, either by Ziggy or somehow in the press, or on twitter or tiktok or whatever. I wonder if he knows. I can't imagine he cares. |
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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =
996 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2022 : 11:34:46
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I remember asking BF on here about the Bluefinger tracks and whether they were intended for a Pixies album. He said that a few of the riffs and chord progressions that ended up on Bluefinger were intended for Pixies but no actual songs. Think that's probably about right. Bits of Threshold and Tight Black Rubber spring to mind where you can get some sort of Pixies vibe whereas songs like She Took All The Money, Lolita, etc. would have been far too Catholics-y for any possible 2006/7 Pixies album. They spawned out of his decision to make a Herman Brood rock opera. Those songs wouldn't be out of place now on a Pixies record but back then I don't think he'd have presented them as Pixies candidates.
When I was a teenager I used to wonder what Bluefinger would sound like if Joey, etc. were involved but I don't anymore as it's a perfect album as it is. It's pure and raw and un-Pixified and all the better for it. |
Edited by - The Maharal on 06/15/2022 11:35:36 |
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1122 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2022 : 11:36:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
I suspect there's other FBF classics in him that are not being let out because of Dalgety and his generic producing style and song choices, honestly.
I like BTE. But it's probably like my 15th favorite album FBF has made.
I've wondered this too. I often think of all the songs that haven't made it onto the album's, the likes of O Little Cloud, Last Night the Wolves Came out, Superlecker. And the rest.
In the back of my mind I've always had this notion (or hope) that once this Pixies episode is over (do they really want to be playing Debaser to 20 year olds when they're in their 60s?) that Frank Black - or the Charles Thompson Experience - will re emerge with a host of new and recycled material that didn't make the Pixies albums.
I get the impression (could be totally wrong) with the current situation with Pixies they've had to navigate a lot of issues just to get to the position to record new material where everyone is comfortable with the set up. For that to happen maybe it means Charles being less hands on and not having to be 'that guy' for the rest of the band and he's happy for Tom to have that role and walk that line - it's something he appears to do well.
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3151 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2022 : 11:54:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Stevio10
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
I suspect there's other FBF classics in him that are not being let out because of Dalgety and his generic producing style and song choices, honestly.
I like BTE. But it's probably like my 15th favorite album FBF has made.
I've wondered this too. I often think of all the songs that haven't made it onto the album's, the likes of O Little Cloud, Last Night the Wolves Came out, Superlecker. And the rest.
In the back of my mind I've always had this notion (or hope) that once this Pixies episode is over (do they really want to be playing Debaser to 20 year olds when they're in their 60s?) that Frank Black - or the Charles Thompson Experience - will re emerge with a host of new and recycled material that didn't make the Pixies albums.
I get the impression (could be totally wrong) with the current situation with Pixies they've had to navigate a lot of issues just to get to the position to record new material where everyone is comfortable with the set up. For that to happen maybe it means Charles being less hands on and not having to be 'that guy' for the rest of the band and he's happy for Tom to have that role and walk that line - it's something he appears to do well.
O Little Cloud!
(Swoon)
Man I love that song
The Grindsman is another fave that is homeless |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2463 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2022 : 12:05:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
quote:
Originally posted by Stevio10
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
I suspect there's other FBF classics in him that are not being let out because of Dalgety and his generic producing style and song choices, honestly.
I like BTE. But it's probably like my 15th favorite album FBF has made.
I've wondered this too. I often think of all the songs that haven't made it onto the album's, the likes of O Little Cloud, Last Night the Wolves Came out, Superlecker. And the rest.
In the back of my mind I've always had this notion (or hope) that once this Pixies episode is over (do they really want to be playing Debaser to 20 year olds when they're in their 60s?) that Frank Black - or the Charles Thompson Experience - will re emerge with a host of new and recycled material that didn't make the Pixies albums.
I get the impression (could be totally wrong) with the current situation with Pixies they've had to navigate a lot of issues just to get to the position to record new material where everyone is comfortable with the set up. For that to happen maybe it means Charles being less hands on and not having to be 'that guy' for the rest of the band and he's happy for Tom to have that role and walk that line - it's something he appears to do well.
O Little Cloud!
(Swoon)
Man I love that song
The Grindsman is another fave that is homeless
I still wonder about all the missing songs from the 2012 list!
I heard the What Goes Boom demo, but others seemed to be in circulation. Apparently Blue Eyed Hexe was pretty different too? |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2022 : 12:34:00
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I doubt he’ll release much new, if anything, under any moniker other than the Pixies. At least not for the foreseeable future. He did that, and I think he doesn’t want to scuffle in clubs any more. Do the bigger shows, get paid, get ears on his work. Even when the pixies were big again and he released Bluefinger it was just a blip, and most people didn’t even hear it. I think we’re basically getting FBF tracks at this point. I don’t get the impression he’s really focusing on writing “Pixies Songs” whatever that means. He’s just writing a pile of songs, bringing them to Tom and the band, they’re picking what they like, then they put them through the Pixie/Dalgety Pix-O-Matic and we get a new album. That’s what it sounds like from the Podcast for Doggerel anyway.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2022 : 12:38:42
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Wasn't Violet hinting at there may be a third Grand Duchy album in the works?
Don't see why this can't happen; in between Dalgety albums? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2022 : 13:12:02
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I am curious if FBF gets something out of all those Catholics and solo reissues.
Some new respect for that part of his career
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
957 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2022 : 13:33:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
The Grindsman is another fave that is homeless
I come here every day for like over a decade, how did I miss this song??
Any others I don't know about??
Also, where can little ol' me hear the What Goes Boom demo, and others? |
Edited by - Troubles A Foot on 06/15/2022 13:36:20 |
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1335 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2022 : 13:56:40
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| Word of warning on Boom, once heard you can't go back... (not a fan of that one) |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
957 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2022 : 14:28:50
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| It's a favorite song of mine. It's insane to me people heard that opening the new Pixies and went "meh." I was like what more do people want?? Love the production, the lyrics, the melody, arrangement, everything. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2022 : 21:41:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
It's a favorite song of mine. It's insane to me people heard that opening the new Pixies and went "meh." I was like what more do people want?? Love the production, the lyrics, the melody, arrangement, everything.
Exactly, sounds straight of Trompe
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2463 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 02:08:47
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
It's a favorite song of mine. It's insane to me people heard that opening the new Pixies and went "meh." I was like what more do people want?? Love the production, the lyrics, the melody, arrangement, everything.
Exactly, sounds straight of Trompe
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
It's certainly one of the strongest on Indie Cindy. Some great melodies on that album, although I wish they'd sped the songs up a bit and cut a good minute off most of them!
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Edited by - Ziggy on 06/16/2022 02:09:04 |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3151 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 03:09:15
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Boom has grown on me but I wish I could like it as much as some of you do. Something about it has never clicked with me.
However I have completely embraced Andro, Toe, Indie, Snakes, and 318 as superb FBF songs.
For me there is more to love on IC than HC.
BTE > IC > HC |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3151 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 03:10:27
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| Oh! And I love Silver Snail too! Great mood |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 05:13:40
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I love all the songs but I hate the production on the poppy parts of IC
The slower more slick parts go on forever. Especially the vocals tend to drag a bit.
Ring the Bell, chorus of Greens and Blues, Andro Queen
I also suspect that there is some kind of vocal processing going on. Not AutoTune per se.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 05:15:06
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Anyway, Pop Pixies seem to be part of the deal now.
Classic Masher is also very slick, and why should a band that made HCYM not be?
Thunder and Lightning snippet sounds like Nada Surf.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 05:17:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Ziggy
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
It's a favorite song of mine. It's insane to me people heard that opening the new Pixies and went "meh." I was like what more do people want?? Love the production, the lyrics, the melody, arrangement, everything.
Exactly, sounds straight of Trompe
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
It's certainly one of the strongest on Indie Cindy. Some great melodies on that album, although I wish they'd sped the songs up a bit and cut a good minute off most of them!
Seconded. Joey is on fire on IC, but what can he do when there's another round of choruses?
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 07:56:14
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I love all the songs but I hate the production on the poppy parts of IC
The slower more slick parts go on forever. Especially the vocals tend to drag a bit.
Ring the Bell, chorus of Greens and Blues, Andro Queen
I also suspect that there is some kind of vocal processing going on. Not AutoTune per se.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
It’s almost definitely autotune. It doesn’t always sound like the crazy artifacts that we think of when we think of auto tune. And it’s probably a manual adjustment rather than automatic. You can go in and draw lines for the notes you wanted to hit, and what it does is it slots the vocal into this almost too perfect channel, and as you adjust parameters it gets more and more uncanny. Layer on some limiting and compression and it starts to really sound, well, like it sounds on these tracks.
Also - Andro Queen is probably my favorite song on IC. Or maybe tied with Hexe.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
Edited by - johnnyribcage on 06/16/2022 08:17:22 |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
957 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 08:18:33
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Definitely autotune. I noticed it right away.
Some aspects of IC's production I love, others I hate... |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
957 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 09:01:42
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| I really do wanna hear the What Goes Boom demo...and more...if possible... |
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =
France
786 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 09:18:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
Boom has grown on me but I wish I could like it as much as some of you do. Something about it has never clicked with me.
However I have completely embraced Andro, Toe, Indie, Snakes, and 318 as superb FBF songs.
For me there is more to love on IC than HC.
BTE > IC > HC
interesting take on BTE > IC > HC
I personally like more songs from IC
But the production and composition choices (especially the fact that many songs are too slow and long) spoil them significantly
my top3 : Boom, Indie Cindy, Bagboy
(I don't count Women of War as a proper Pixie song, neither Hear Me Out or Human Crime)
On HC, Dalgety really messed the production on some otherwise strong songs when played live (or acoustic)
my top3 : Oona, Baal's Back, All the Saints
BTE is great, but could be more cohesive
my top3 : Los Surfers Muertos, Death Horizon, This is my Fate
BTE demos are incredibly fresh though, like Surfer Rosa meets Bluefinger. you listen to the whole lot and it's already over, no filler
my top3 : Cyrus, Please Don't Go, Mal de Mer
Overall I would rank them as :
demos > IC > BTE > HC
Don't call me a snob :)
If I could be the curator of Pixies 2.0, I would pick 12 songs for a very intense album made up of :
What Goes Boom
Indie Cindy
Bagboy
Oona
Baal's Back
All the Saints
Los Surfers Muertos
Death Horizon
This is my Fate
The Good Works of Cyrus
Mal de Mer
Please Don't Go
(+ Pixies versions of Dead Man's Curve, Fort Wayne and Tight Black Rubber)
(+ Painter Man is Coming as a bonus track)
--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
957 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 10:28:59
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Demos>IC>BTE>HC
Head Carrier just gets more forgotten by me each year. I almost never listen to it. I have no idea what happened there. When I DO listen to it I don't dislike any of the songs.
IC is just more interesting to me and I actually put it on quite often. I wish it can be fixed up a bit, but I often feel compelled to take that journey. It's a fascinating document. I really do think for the most part, they nailed it. I'm genuinely perplexed why it was so horribly received. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 11:16:44
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Because Kim was not on it
Because people expect Doolittle part 2
Because their first 4 albums were met with universally acclaim and you sound more interesting when you bring down such a loved act
Because Pixies were very succesfull (also financially) and loved by thousands of people on every rock festival
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3151 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 11:26:58
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
Because Kim was not on it
Because people expect Doolittle part 2
Because their first 4 albums were met with universally acclaim and you sound more interesting when you bring down such a loved act
Because Pixies were very succesfull (also financially) and loved by thousands of people on every rock festival
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
And probably because even if it was as good as SR through TLM it wouldn't be considered as such, and I don't even think IC's biggest fans (correct me if I'm wrong Trouble) think it's on the level with anything from Pilgrim to TOTY. That run is impeccable.
But I need to remind myself that plenty of people did not like Bossanova when it came out, and when I bought my cassette tape of TLM the day it came out I had heard that "it wasn't that good." So people just say whatever. |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2463 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 12:14:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
Demos>IC>BTE>HC
Head Carrier just gets more forgotten by me each year. I almost never listen to it. I have no idea what happened there. When I DO listen to it I don't dislike any of the songs.
IC is just more interesting to me and I actually put it on quite often. I wish it can be fixed up a bit, but I often feel compelled to take that journey. It's a fascinating document. I really do think for the most part, they nailed it. I'm genuinely perplexed why it was so horribly received.
Head Carrier is the weakest of the three we've heard so far, in my view. Production/mix feels wildly inconsistent (compare the radio session feel of the title track to some of the more 'produced' songs).
And yet BTE is probably in my top five BF/FB/Pixies records!
I'm genuinely excited for Doggerel - and whatever else is coming down the road afterwards! |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 12:42:59
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I like Head Carrier more than IC, because it has the female element back
The backing vocals are much better, the bass more prominent
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3151 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 12:52:39
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Re: 2.0 we all agree that none of us agree
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1018 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 12:56:57
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BTE (9) > IC (8) > HC (7.5)
I was thinking of starting an IC thread, but since we're talking about it here I'll join in. I listened to IC again today for the second time in a couple months, and it's really grown on me over the last few years. I'm on board for the What Goes Boom love - sounds like a logical next step from Trompe. Great guitar textures throughout the album, very strong songwriting from Charles, and inventive guitar parts from Joey. Could use better mixing, a female presence, and maybe some culling.
Almost the entire front half or so is fantastic (I think Bagboy would work better as a standalone single than in the context of the album, which makes sense given that it was recorded prior): What Goes Boom/Greens and Blues/Indie Cindy/Magdalena/Blue Eyed Hexe/Silver Snail all great songs, and I also really enjoy Ring the Bells, Andro, and Johnny Bravo. I'd probably keep Another Toe and for a b-side (love the verses and pre-choruses - but the song was done a disservice by featuring the chorus at the beginning, and the repetitions at the end - in my opinion it works better as a refrain than a full-on chorus). I think it might have helped if they went with Magdalena (which even Pitchfork had to admit was quality in their review of EP 2) or What Goes Boom as the lead singles.
I have to admit Oona is the weakpoint of HC for me - the chorus is way too plodding for me and drags the album.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 13:15:07
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I love Oona actually
With you on Magdalena, what a great track
What Goes Boom also sounds like a single to me
I also think Blue Eyed Hexe could have been a good comeback
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 13:19:34
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I love Oona actually
With you on Magdalena, what a great track
What Goes Boom also sounds like a single to me
I also think Blue Eyed Hexe could have been a good comeback
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
In my opinion, Hexe should have been the lead off single. Then the full album drop, not the EP approach. A big uppercut then bam land the whole thing. I think everyone would have viewed it completely differently. Maybe not.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2022 : 13:21:03
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Fear not, threadwatchers. This is still the Doggerell thread. We always do this when there’s a big new release. It’s a tiny community here these days.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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Doggerel
