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Originally posted by billgoodman

I don't think Kim served as a filter tbh

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Originally posted by Bedbug

The “Kim was an editor of 1.0 songs” theory must surely be disproven by the lyrics to U-Mass and all of TLM. I am a fan but can’t see any of her influence on that album at all,

But the “Kim put the kabash on the Pixies Bluefinger album” theory seems more plausible to me. And obviously we know how she felt about IC songs

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Originally posted by Sprite

Filtering can be indirect. Kim was influencing every song she wrote the bassline for. One thing that was surprising to hear way back was when Frank commented 'now it sounds like a Pixies song' when Joey had added a part. I always thought before that on a song (for example) like Hey that Frank would write the solo or at least sketch it out. But if it was really left to Joe then that is some serious song filtering/influencing what ever you want to call it. I find it pretty hard to believe Kim wasn't doing similar on her parts or backing vocals.

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Originally posted by billgoodman
That was a tragic decision on Kims behalf, if true

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Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

[quote]Originally posted by billgoodman
That was a tragic decision on Kims behalf, if true

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Originally posted by Sprite

Filtering can be indirect. Kim was influencing every song she wrote the bassline for. One thing that was surprising to hear way back was when Frank commented 'now it sounds like a Pixies song' when Joey had added a part. I always thought before that on a song (for example) like Hey that Frank would write the solo or at least sketch it out. But if it was really left to Joe then that is some serious song filtering/influencing what ever you want to call it. I find it pretty hard to believe Kim wasn't doing similar on her parts or backing vocals.

FB&C don't sound anything like the Pixies, is that because of Frank or because of the players. I have my doubts it's not the players

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Originally posted by Brank_Flack

I know it's a bit off topic but I'm not convinced that Bluefinger was meant to be a Pixies album that Kim then rejected (though I do believe she rejected other demos Frank had sent the band, and eventually quit over being unhappy with Indie Cindy).

Wasn't the whole genesis of Bluefinger that they needed a bonus song for Frank Black 93-03, for which Frank supplied Threshold Apprehension, and then while in the studio had one of his legendary a boosts of creativity and efficiently pumped out and recorded the rest of the songs then and there over a few days? If so, Bluefinger the album would never have existed as demos for the Pixies - unless the album itself was a demo which was then released, but that's not my impression. It's possible of course that Threshold Apprehension may have been meant for the Pixies and then instead used as the bonus track for 93-03 (it was based on a leftover riff from the Pixies 1.0 days). Is there any interview evidence to the contrary of my narrative? I'm completely open to the idea that I'm confused/misremembering.

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Originally posted by johnnyribcage

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Originally posted by Brank_Flack

I know it's a bit off topic but I'm not convinced that Bluefinger was meant to be a Pixies album that Kim then rejected (though I do believe she rejected other demos Frank had sent the band, and eventually quit over being unhappy with Indie Cindy).

Wasn't the whole genesis of Bluefinger that they needed a bonus song for Frank Black 93-03, for which Frank supplied Threshold Apprehension, and then while in the studio had one of his legendary a boosts of creativity and efficiently pumped out and recorded the rest of the songs then and there over a few days? If so, Bluefinger the album would never have existed as demos for the Pixies - unless the album itself was a demo which was then released, but that's not my impression. It's possible of course that Threshold Apprehension may have been meant for the Pixies and then instead used as the bonus track for 93-03 (it was based on a leftover riff from the Pixies 1.0 days). Is there any interview evidence to the contrary of my narrative? I'm completely open to the idea that I'm confused/misremembering.

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Yeah I don’t remember it that way. I know Threshold was something kicking around Pixies world, maybe a left over riff, but I thought it was developed FOR the Pixies until Kim shot it down. I thought that was the genesis of the whole “fakey” comment BF referenced in interviews leading up to and during Bluefinger’s release. I thought “fakey” was a direct shot at Threshold from Kim. But who knows.

I don’t think Bluefinger was developed FOR the Pixies per say, I do think it was “okay I’m going to write a solo Black Francis album then” and show you. In spirit it was a pixies album. But it wouldn’t have came about without the rejection. But I feel like there might have been hope that it could be sold to the band (or Kim really) as the basis for a Pixies album.

So that’s how I remember it, but man I’m probably conflating random analysis from the board here at the time with contemporary interviews, and all of it was a long time ago now.

I know we discussed and referenced various interviews at length here on the board way back when Bluefinger came out, but we’d have to go spelunking for those. I

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I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.

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Originally posted by jake3

I believe Kim was onboard with the idea of recording an EP in Wales with the band but when it became obvious that everyone else wanted to record more than that she wasn't comfortable with the idea and left. She must have had some faith in some of the songs to have gone out there in the first place though. I believe she contributed arrangement ideas and bass riffs to certain songs on the record. Here's a quote from Charles about Kim's involvement on 'Bagboy': "When we rehearsed it at the ill fated rehearsal session I believe actually Kim kind of disassembled the song somewhat, you know to try to kind of find a breath of fresh air for it or something."

Regarding 'Threshold Apprehension' this is what Charles said about the track: "That originally was the Pixies. That’s left over from Surfer Rosa, that chord progression."

I can't remember where I found the information but '(Do What You Want) Gyaneshwar' was written for the Pixies in the mid-2000's. That was one of the earliest attempts to write 2.0 material, which Charles described as being rejected for sounding "Fakey".

There were later attempts at writing Pixies music too (pre-Indie Cindy). Charles, Joey and Dave demoed about 10-15 songs around 2010 in LA, known as the 'Guncotton Demos'. 'Um Chagga Lagga' and a different instrumental version of 'Bagboy' were part of these demos.

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Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

Ok. I am currently trying to locate it. But I swear to god, when Bluefinger came out there was some sort of interview or press release where Frank was forthright and openly annoyed at the Pixies/Kim for not wanting to record his new material and that this album was him saying fuck it.

I'm trying to find it and no luck yet. Anyone else recall this? It must be here somewhere...

I've also always seemed to be under the impression that the bonus songs on ChristMASS were intended to be Pixies songs, especially Do What You Want etc...

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Originally posted by johnnyribcage

By the way, Bluefinger is, in my opinion, tied for 1st for anything solo FBF. And riding the wave just slightly under the best of the Pixies. It's a masterpiece.

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I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.

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Originally posted by Ziggy

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Originally posted by johnnyribcage

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Originally posted by Brank_Flack

I know it's a bit off topic but I'm not convinced that Bluefinger was meant to be a Pixies album that Kim then rejected (though I do believe she rejected other demos Frank had sent the band, and eventually quit over being unhappy with Indie Cindy).

Wasn't the whole genesis of Bluefinger that they needed a bonus song for Frank Black 93-03, for which Frank supplied Threshold Apprehension, and then while in the studio had one of his legendary a boosts of creativity and efficiently pumped out and recorded the rest of the songs then and there over a few days? If so, Bluefinger the album would never have existed as demos for the Pixies - unless the album itself was a demo which was then released, but that's not my impression. It's possible of course that Threshold Apprehension may have been meant for the Pixies and then instead used as the bonus track for 93-03 (it was based on a leftover riff from the Pixies 1.0 days). Is there any interview evidence to the contrary of my narrative? I'm completely open to the idea that I'm confused/misremembering.

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Yeah I don’t remember it that way. I know Threshold was something kicking around Pixies world, maybe a left over riff, but I thought it was developed FOR the Pixies until Kim shot it down. I thought that was the genesis of the whole “fakey” comment BF referenced in interviews leading up to and during Bluefinger’s release. I thought “fakey” was a direct shot at Threshold from Kim. But who knows.

I don’t think Bluefinger was developed FOR the Pixies per say, I do think it was “okay I’m going to write a solo Black Francis album then” and show you. In spirit it was a pixies album. But it wouldn’t have came about without the rejection. But I feel like there might have been hope that it could be sold to the band (or Kim really) as the basis for a Pixies album.

So that’s how I remember it, but man I’m probably conflating random analysis from the board here at the time with contemporary interviews, and all of it was a long time ago now.

I know we discussed and referenced various interviews at length here on the board way back when Bluefinger came out, but we’d have to go spelunking for those. I

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I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.

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I don't think it's ever been definitively established that the Bluefinger songs (as an entire 'suite') were presented to the Pixies for consideration.

There's the 2006 Billboard interview where he talked around struggling to persuade Kim to record, and the difficulty of getting into a 'Pixies mindset'.

https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/black-bags-penning-pixies-esque-songs-58086/


I seem to remember around the 2008/09 mark (or even later) where Charles referenced sending rough demos to the other members and not even getting a reply. Whether that was him joking around with the interviewer isn't clear!

Consensus on here used to be that 'Dead Man's Curve' was a 'rejected Pixies song'. Did that stem from a comment he made during one of its many live performances?

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Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

I finished listening to the podcast. The part about the cheesy sound in haunted house is as perfect a summation of the problem with Dalgety as I could have ever imagined.

I was also surprised by how involved he was in the other songs, rearranging them and etc. I really do feel like he's the fifth Pixie, and I feel like...none of us really want that? It's kind of a weird situation. I really don't trust his judgment and it's kind of frustrating that all of Charles's material must now be filtered through him. I really hope they try somebody else soon.

It continues to surprise me how hands-off Charles is about his own work. In terms of putting out Human Crime, he's just like uhh someone wanted a song so we did it? And he also speaks at length about not micromanaging and just letting others (mainly Tom?) call all the shots.

I can't say I like that, but if he's just in that headspace of wanting to let go a bit, good for him. I guess. But I worry there's kind of an indifference to that. And I worry that is the problem with BTE and possibly future albums...a feeling of indifference.

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