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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =
USA
892 Posts |
 Posted - 05/29/2015 : 06:05:10
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It's starting to get exciting again around here, and I just wanted to discuss the band a bit more. With new music being played or rehearsed and possible recording sessions later in the year, seems like a good time to ask
What Would You Like To Hear From The Band?
Obviously this is a loaded question with many different facets but I'm asking about it from any angle. For me, I'd really like a bit more off-kilter rhythms and lyric schemes. Paz's added vocals on that live version of Un Chagga Lagga from the other day have me hopeful that while she can't be Kim, her voice can bring something different to the music.
The Bass has to return to the forefront for me, listening to older Pixies stuff makes me miss the memorable bass lines Kim threw down. Just want to hear it higher in the mix, let Paz get funky with it.
Joey's work on Indie Cindy, while solid, was a bit unspectacular. Curious to see whether he does another "scoring" type of approach to the new music, or will be more center in the action.
Most important is BF's writing. After so many songs and styles over the years, I still question whether he can recapture that Pixies vibe in the here and now. There are moments on IC, but it's all a bit TAME. I would think it's extremely difficult to create such manic music/ideas when you are his age with family and all the familiar trappings. But even his vocals can be varied somewhat to give it all a quirkier vibe. His softer vocals in IC didn't really work for me because it wasn't balanced out with the harsher stuff. Jamie Bravo, Ring The Bell, Another Toe, just too straightforward and syrupy. Would really enjoy heating him get primeval with it but I realize that's a lot to ask.
Releasing another EP or even a "soundtrack" could be an interesting road to take. I wouldn't do a drawn out EP strategy again, but an EP to get the ball rolling again followed by an album could work.
Overall, I'm just hyped we have something to look forward to and want to generally chat about the possibilities. Add-on folks. |
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =
France
786 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2015 : 11:18:29
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100% agree on everything you said, especially the bass thing and BF's writing
Reading that David Lovering sings more on new songs is not great news to me, I fear it might add to the syrupy thing.
I expeçt more madness, quirkiness, creativity. Especially in the drumming which has become a bit too lazy and straightforward on IC.
I think BF still has it in him
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"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)" |
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jake3
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
248 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2015 : 11:20:48
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Nice thread. I agree with basically everything you've just said.
Indie Cindy is a good record, which I'll play for a long, long time but knowing how close they came to making it a great record, will always frustrate me. After hearing raw solo versions of 'Indie Cindy', 'Greens & Blues', 'Andro Queen', 'Silver Snail' and 'Classic Masher' and for the band to then drop the first official song in 'Bagboy' (my favourite off the record) my expectations were shooting through the roof! It felt like Frank was on some crazy roll and against all odds was about to create a new record to proudly stand along side the bands previous material - my favourite band of all time! ...but not quite so...
For me Frank had done ~80% of the hard work but he was let down by Kim, Gil and a lack of patience. I'll try explain with some cons of Indie Cindy and explain what I hope the band fix up next time around.
1) Female Vocals - Kim's backing vocals make up a large part of the Pixies sound (so much so some fans have seemingly aborted the idea of the Pixies - Definitely not me though!) and consequently the songs would have certainly improved for them. Her bass playing is easily replaceable, but her vocals really are amazing and a tough ask to replace. Jeremy Dubs does a admirable job to fill her absence and successfully too in the case of 'Bagboy' and 'Blue Eyed Hexe', but the rest don't exactly cut the mustard. This time around however the band are lucky enough to have Paz onboard and I'm confident she'll do a more than solid job. Hopefully she'll be involved a lot more than the occasional Dubs effort. Oh, and it's nice to see her vocal performance improve as of late too!
2) Production - Man, Gil really dropped the ball on this big time. Unless Gil was to turn a corner fast I'd regrettably ditch him for another producer. This for me, is one of, if not the biggest disappointments for Indie Cindy. Compressed and unclassy - The sort of production I'd expect from a pop-punk record not THE Pixies. I personally hope they turn to a more contrasting sound. Dirtier, nastier and rawer guitar/vocals and a sharper/clearer/punchier bass. I'm not asking for a COP/SR/Doolittle/Bossanova job, a Trompe Le Monde is fine, just less, er, Indie Cindy.
3) Tempo Variety: One of the features that distinguish Indie Cindy from the bands previous material is the fact every single song on the record is mid-paced and so the record simply plods on through. Hopefully Frank will have a few pace-y numbers to include as it'd be a far more dynamic and interesting listening experience. A few more hard hitting numbers would be very, very welcome too. The fleeting hard vocal on 'Blue Eyed Hexe' just wants me craving more and more, and Frank's certainly capable of producing it - don't abandon it before you can't anymore!
4) Frank's Vocals: Really hate saying this, because he produces the goods live, but a lot of the studio performances sound a little flat to my ears. When playing live Frank really produces the goods and sounds like he's really giving it his all but all too often this doesn't feel the case with Indie Cindy. I'm really not digging a lot Frank's softer vocal performances for whatever reason but his talk-sing, harder vocals, and screaming vocals are all on tip top form. It'd be nice to have more manic variety, yip/yowls/breathier vocals and less straight performances like he pulls of live, but in a studio setting. Scare me Frank! :D
5) Experimenting/Weirdness: One of my favourite things from the Indie Cindy song cycle was the electronic drums on 'Bagboy'. When I played it for the first time, it took me by complete surprise and it really sounded like a future Pixies evolving from Trompe Le Monde. I remember a lot of individuals pointing out how great 4th verse was when Joey's guitar seemingly crackles and morphs along and the electronic drum kick back in - THATS IT - that's the future of the Pixies, that's the new unexpected sound I hoped I'd hear again when buying the rest of the material, but it was not to be and it had disappeared as quick as it came, with most of the other songs sounding straighter than the band had ever been before. There are plenty more examples I could give but I'll quickly point out the following: One. The weird noises from the music video to 'Blue Eyed Hexe' we're really cool - they would have made a very interesting addition to the record and helped contribute to making it a more dynamic listen. And two. The extended live intro to 'Magdelena' is great too and should have been put to record. Bring more weirdness to the table Pixies. Experiment and mix up the songs structure/length. Bring Paz's violin to the studio, get David some more electronic drum stuff, do sound collages, chop up guitar solos (a la Vamos), just do something unexpected!
6) Drumming - I felt the drumming was a little bit straight for my liking and Dave's fleeting drum fills of yesteryear were a big positive for the band. He's said a few times his drumming has simplified for the better but I'm not so convinced. It'd be nice for him to mix it just occasionally to help break things up.
Hopefully this doesn't read to much of an Indie Cindy criticism list and the negative points read as things I'd hope they do for next time. I hope by playing some of the songs live they'll add to the weirdness and find any flaws in them. I also hope they don't get too precious over songs and let them fall if they aren't up to scratch and don't rely too heavily on the 10 Super Leck/Halloween demos Frank and Dubs created last year. Write! Write! Write! If I think of a bunch more stuff I'll add it or expand on it. |
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =
France
786 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2015 : 13:04:17
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Greatest analysis and review of Indie Cindy I've ever read jake
You've almost taken every words from my mouth, it's baffling
Spot on!
Items 5, 1, 2, 6 you quoted are the most important to me, in that order, then 3 and 4 (which are both quite relevant)
I had the same feeling when I heard Bagboy (that's the future!), and almost also on What Goes Boom (because of Joey's cringy thing), and the video intro of Hexe is exactly missing from the album, etc
Please, no more Women of War cheesy tunes on LP6
And no more Gil Norton, his influence was bad all along on Indie Cindy, even meddling with the writing process
Harsher, more adult sound is required.
But not as lofi as on Bluefinger, nor as vintage as Albini
As you said Trompe Le Monde level of production would be perfect
What a great discussion thread
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"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)" |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2015 : 14:01:03
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| I'm just here for the ride. |
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =
USA
892 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2015 : 14:53:08
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quote:
Originally posted by hammerhands
I'm just here for the ride.
Of course, it's obvious that we all are which is why we are here. That said, just wanted to see what type of tunes or approach each poster on here would be excited to see the band take.
sdon and Jake, I'm with you guys on all of that. It's kinda telling that I feel we'd see a lot of the same or similar requests from many posters.
I'd say BF's writing, increased tempo of tracks, more bass, and Joey finding a groove would be my top spots of interest. |
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jake3
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
248 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2015 : 17:20:38
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Cheers sdon - much appreciated!
Yeah, it’s nice to see there is already a pretty immediate consensus on what worked and what didn’t and what people are hoping for in the future. Hopefully some of it will align with the band members personal views and a magical happily ever after will be just around the corner - heh. Personally I reckon the Pixies would benefit more considering these views over some of the views expressed by ‘critics’ over the last year and a half, who’d rather stir up conversation by overplaying Kim’s departure, making ACDC connections and jumping on lines like “You put the cock in cocktail, man!” - but then again I’m a little biased! :D
Anyway, back to the analysis. Seeming as you guys have done it, here are my top 5 point’s in order of importance:
1) BF’s song writing. It’s all about the songs people.
2) Added weirdness, interest and character. Sonics.
3) Patience - Waiting for the right songs to arrive and in the right form.
4) Song variety - In tempo and aggression
5) Production - Quality over commercialism.
Perhaps I could have combined a few, but it felt important to single out the individual elements - I could have easily made the list much longer.
In terms of production I too hope it won't be too lo-fi Sdon, as Frank’s done enough material this way, however I’d still be looking for something a bit different to what was done on Indie Cindy. The Pixies should be Frank’s chance to be ambitious and do stuff on a somewhat grander, richer scale. I wouldn’t be against Albini returning to the fold, it’d certainly guarantee quality, but I’m not exactly sure it’d be a great pairing considering the bands current ‘sound’ and their past relationship with him, especially since his good friend in Kim Deal is gone. Despite being a bit of an ass, Steve is a smart guy and I’d be sure that he’d put a working relationship well ahead of a personal one. You could count writing in the studio out though as he’s a strictly straightforward producer, in and out, as quick and efficient as possible. Like I said, I’m not sure he’d be the best match for the bands current situation but who knows.
I personally think Dave Sitek could be a potentially interesting shout for a new producer as he’s a smart, talented guy, who seems more than happy contributing to a bands material and making a positive, modern sounding impact, especially in terms of atmosphere and electronics (a la ‘Bagboy’). Not only that but he’s a member of TV On The Radio who seem to be pretty big fans - so I’m sure he’d go over and beyond his duty as a producer to help get the best from them. I’ll hold my hands up and say I’m unfamiliar with how he’d help with grittier, nastier moments, but maybe he’s an all round wiz kid - who knows.
Hopefully a few more discussion threads will pop up over the next weeks and months as we really are lucky to be in a golden age of Pixies activity, so it’s cool to hear what fans are thinking! I’m gonna set up a Guncotton/New Pixes LP thread soon, but I need to put a bunch more quotes together first and I’m kind of on the busy side at the moment, but look out for it in the near future! |
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =
USA
892 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2015 : 19:26:14
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Good stuff jake, makes sense to me. And it's not like they are going to take anyone's advice, they'll do what they do. I do think digging a but deeper in terms of the lyrics and songwriting would be good, if only to make the tracks more challenging and rewarding on further listens.
It's funny you mention Dave Sitek, as that interview between Tunde and BF made me think of him as well. Hopefully they made some type of connection after playing together.
I also don't want them to go Lo-Fi per se, but a but crunchier with the guitars would suffice.
This might be interesting to some. I wanted to listen to IC the other day, and found this YouTube video. It's actually snippets of the majority of IC songs but sped up a bit. It already sounds better by just increasing the tempo of some tracks. Let me know if you agree or disagree. http://youtu.be/zQ9wn7fHvOw |
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =
France
786 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2015 : 21:11:30
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^^ true, it's better, especially Magdalena and Greens
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"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)" |
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DoginLeSand
- FB Fan -
Sweden
34 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2015 : 15:44:28
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I tend to mess around with the pitch and speed with songs when I start growing tired of them, actually. Been doing it for a while - almost always brings them into a new light, sort of.
On topic, though; wouldn't want this to turn into an echo chamber, but I pretty much agree with every post here. Except maybe the part about BF's soft vocals, I really liked them, tbh.
Other than that, I would definitly love some fast, punky drumming from David. The ridiculous production on IC barely let him play anything faster than like 120 BPM. Imagine Holiday Song with IC's production - you wouldn't even be able to make out the cymbals in the mix. I'd love me some tight and precise but fast drumming (Allison, pretty-much-entire-come-on-pilgrim, Sad Punk, etc).
Also, yes. I too would really like for the bass to be brought more forward,, both in the arrangment and mix.
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3155 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2015 : 15:47:37
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That's a good point about Bagboy Jake3 (your point #5). Hearing it for the first time my brain was like "what?" Reminded me just a little of the first time I ever heard them when I thought something was wrong with my tape deck. Like you said, it felt like Frank was just taking everything in this crazy direction, new sound maybe. But then the rest of it just sounded like solid Frank Black, which is of course terrific, but not quite that Pixies feel from 25 years ago. So perhaps to compensate my brain compartmentalizes them, 1.0 and 2.0 kind of thing, like plenty of people have said. But the first five albums aren't a monolithic sound anyway, so maybe that's not fair.
I really have a hard time answering natenate101's original question in this thread. I honestly don't know what I want from the band, at least not next album wise. Concert wise i want to hear all the songs they haven't been playing these last couple years. And I'd like Frank to keep doing solo stuff, side projects, etc. That's not asking too much is it? |
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McDutchie
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
268 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2015 : 23:24:51
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Live to 2 track. Like the Catholics did. I know the Pixies can do it. They've done some fantastic-sounding live radio shows. I've got some recordings and some days I prefer them over any released album.
Also, they should take themselves less seriously and have more fun. Indie Cindy is the album of a band trying to prove their importance. Then the bonus single "Women of War" came out, it's just a little ditty, and it's the most Pixies thing the Pixies did since "Doolittle". I want some more of that.
Bullet. I want the Pixies to cover "Bullet". With nice thrashy rhythm guitar, a solid bass line à la Kim, and Joey's outer space sound. It would be glorious.
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Edited by - McDutchie on 05/30/2015 23:32:37 |
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =
France
786 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2015 : 02:00:01
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Don't agree with Women of War being the most Pixies thing... I like the sound of it, especially after the overheavy production of Indie Cindy, and the general sense of urgency in it (and fun), but the writing is poor, and Paz is out of tune. I agree that some songs of FB/BF repertoire could be great with full band arrangement, but I don't want to live in the past, and mostly want to hear new tunes
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"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)" |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2015 : 15:00:54
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All they need to do is rehearse the hell out of the songs by playing them live, and stay away from the bullshit "work it out in the studio" approach.
And let them evolve into greater songs. |
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
653 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2015 : 16:04:21
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Everything/Nothing
I'm not being flippant. That's truly just how I feel.
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =
USA
892 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2015 : 17:24:12
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quote:
Originally posted by The Champ
All they need to do is rehearse the hell out of the songs by playing them live, and stay away from the bullshit "work it out in the studio" approach.
And let them evolve into greater songs.
I'm very interested to see why difference this makes in the music. On first listen Um Chagga Lagga didn't sound too much different than the demo. How much change did they used to institute on Charles' demos from the first go round? I know they've been repeating the mantra recently about building up the songs live, so curious if that could apply to tempo changes if it's not hitting hard on stage or going back and writing up a new bridge, chorus change, etc....
You think the other members would speak up to Charles if his writing on a given song was lacking? At an older age, I just wonder if they even have the energy or desire to really butt heads over creative stuff like that? Or more like,"that's solid BF, let's knock it out". A few above have shown a desire to see the band not settle for more straightforward or repetitive songs, and I agree with that. One thing about Women of War and now Um Chagga Lagga is a lack of dynamic changes in the song, the whole Loud-Quiet-Loud thing. |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3155 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2016 : 02:17:46
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| So have we gotten what we wanted / expected? |
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What do you want/expect from new Pixies music?
