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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
647 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2019 :  08:11:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Agreed, Bedbug.

I actually LOVE this song, and have from day one.

In a perfect world, this would have caught on like "Headache."

If I were FBF, I think the collective cries of "sellout" and "Foo Fighters rip-off" that greeted this delightful and expertly played and sung slice of lyrically multi-layered, imminently hummable pop songcraft would have made me want to give up altogether.

--

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =

USA
805 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2019 :  10:29:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Personally I can't stand that song, mostly because the chorus is cringeworthy and sounds disjointed. Couldn't believe it was a Pixies song really. Paint by numbers for someone like BF.
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2420 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2019 :  10:59:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by natenate101

Personally I can't stand that song, mostly because the chorus is cringeworthy and sounds disjointed. Couldn't believe it was a Pixies song really. Paint by numbers for someone like BF.



Well that’s just like your opinion man
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
647 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2019 :  11:32:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by natenate101

Personally I can't stand that song, mostly because the chorus is cringeworthy and sounds disjointed. Couldn't believe it was a Pixies song really. Paint by numbers for someone like BF.



I hear what you are saying, but I think that it's a really strong and extremely catchy POP song.

It's one of the few times he seems to have really "gone for it" with Pixies in terms of courting whatever passes for airplay these days - something that I honestly have no problem with and kinda wish he / they would attempt more often.

Plus, I always liked those "paint-by-numbers" kits, because if you want, you can ignore the directions and insert your own color choices, which I feel is what FBF did with the admittedly extremely formulaic arrangement of "Another Toe."

I often get the feeling that the things about this song which make it (to me) such a good example of what I think it is meant to be are the the very things that are such a turnoff to so many longtime Pixies and/or FBF fans.

They don't seem like that it has a simplistic, sing-song chorus that sticks in your head like superglue -- even though that would be a good way to describe many other Pixies songs they adore.

Many also don't care for the production of Indie Cindy and perhaps especially this track. However, while I too wish that album had not been nearly as compressed as it was in the overall mastering stage, I think the production is fine and dandy.

It's SLICK, glossy, heavy and hermetically sealed.

--

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1791 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2019 :  11:48:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Does BF had/has some alcohol issues ?
This song is obvious indeed, but did you notice anything in the recent podcast ?

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"Service Unavailable"
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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =

879 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2019 :  12:03:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Now I'm drunk all the time
The sun never shines
Clouds hang low on the ruins
When will happiness find me again?

Grand Marnier and a pocket full of speed
We did it all day til we started to bleed

Hey, there bartender
Can I owe you the cash?
Cause the end of world
Well, it came in a flash
And I know that tomorrow
I'll have some new excuse
To cry tears for my water
And pour whiskey in my shoes

When she said she did not love me
That’s when I lost all hope
So I jumped into a river
Called The New House Of The Pope

Don't think he's had alcohol issues, just enjoys a drink now and then. I believe it was revealed recently he was giving up alcohol for a while to support Joey. As the great man once said "living hammered, well it's always hit or miss".
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =

USA
805 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2019 :  17:19:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

quote:
Originally posted by natenate101

Personally I can't stand that song, mostly because the chorus is cringeworthy and sounds disjointed. Couldn't believe it was a Pixies song really. Paint by numbers for someone like BF.



Well that’s just like your opinion man



It is, and in no way am I trying to shit on your opinion of the song. Just expressing my thoughts on it.

@peter radiator, just doesn't do it for me man, but I'm glad if it does for you.
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =

USA
361 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2019 :  06:52:47  Show Profile  Visit Troubles A Foot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think this song is ok but what kills it for me is the production. The vocals and everything sound very processed and auto-tuney (no idea if they really are or what), it makes it feel very much like a radio hit rather than a Pixies song. I actually think the tune and the words etc are all perfectly good, I especially like the outro. What's odd is I'm very happy with a lot of the production on this album, it's really this song and Greens and Blues where I feel the production noticeably hurts the material.
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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =

879 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2019 :  07:49:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I very much disliked this song for a long time but I've just given it another listen (must be the first listen of it in about a year or more) and it's better than I remembered. The vocals still feel "over-produced" though. I feel giving it a SVN FNGRS-esque production and cutting thirty seconds or more of its time would improve it drastically. Maybe a job for a cover band.

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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5361 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2019 :  09:25:09  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Maharal

I very much disliked this song for a long time but I've just given it another listen (must be the first listen of it in about a year or more) and it's better than I remembered. The vocals still feel "over-produced" though. I feel giving it a SVN FNGRS-esque production and cutting thirty seconds or more of its time would improve it drastically. Maybe a job for a cover band.





Seconded. Also agree with Troubles a foot about the autotune


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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2420 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2019 :  03:13:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Maharal

I very much disliked this song for a long time but I've just given it another listen (must be the first listen of it in about a year or more) and it's better than I remembered. The vocals still feel "over-produced" though. I feel giving it a SVN FNGRS-esque production and cutting thirty seconds or more of its time would improve it drastically. Maybe a job for a cover band.





"Better than I remembered" is my continuing experience with IC.
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *

1010 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2019 :  05:55:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Take out IC, Bagboy and Hex and IC is a masterpiece for me now.
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moonruler
- FB Fan -

USA
184 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2019 :  07:39:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think starting with the chorus slows down the appreciation of this song. Once it hits "no more waiting for the new day" I am all in.

I listen to the CD version of this album, mostly. A far superior version of Bagboy in my opinion. I have been wanting to do a track by track comparison, but am a bit too lazy. Someday.

________________
“make…some…room”
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2420 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2019 :  02:56:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What almost always helps my IC listening experience is shuffling the track order. I never play the album through.

Also fun to merge IC and HC into a the best of both worlds.
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Stevio10
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
909 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2019 :  08:56:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by moonruler

I think starting with the chorus slows down the appreciation of this song. Once it hits "no more waiting for the new day" I am all in.

________________
“make…some…room”



Completely agree with this, even on Head Carrier some of the intros are a bit annoying, looking at you Might as Well be Gone and Oona - even though they turn out great my enthusiasm is at a low for those first few moments.
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Stevio10
= Cult of Ray =

United Kingdom
909 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2019 :  09:14:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug



Also fun to merge IC and HC into a the best of both worlds.



I do this too! I'm beginning to believe that once BTE is released the body of work of all 3 albums will be pretty impressive. You can get a decent playlist or best of with just IC and HC but I'm sure BTE will contribute favourably.

It got me thinking that the new material isn't supposed to rival the original run of albums, but there as a separate entity to compliment them, a bit like the Old Testament and New Testament. Another book or chapter in a different time but in the same universe.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5361 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2019 :  09:21:25  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I like that idea

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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2420 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2019 :  04:29:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think it’s a guilty pleasure FB song. Yes it sounds way more mainstream than we want Pixies to sound, or than any of 1.0 sounded (other than HCYM) but it’s something you can dance to and play at a party or for your ol’ Mum, so why not. I dig it more and more.

Agree that starting with the chorus may not have been the best move. But whatever’s
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
2256 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2019 :  08:49:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think it comes down to the mix - there's no headroom and it's quite hard on the ears. Every time I go back to it I enjoy the song more.
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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =

879 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2019 :  02:55:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGWCzkQrpyw live version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH6lHf9W-mI another live version, slightly better quality (Madrid)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=111&v=U6mK2_BMdko apparently the live debut of ATITO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO0XTri0t1U instrumental cover

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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2420 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2019 :  12:15:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good stuff, thank you The Maharal

I would rather hear this live over just about anything from CoP through Doo
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1791 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2019 :  22:35:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Need a Jaime Bravo topic.
And Woman of War (coolest « IC » track)

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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5361 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  00:51:44  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Women if War is indeed one of the best from that era.

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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
2256 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  02:56:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman

Women if War is indeed one of the best from that era.

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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?




Absolutely. I regret not asking Charles about it when I interviewed him.
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1791 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  03:22:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What interview ?

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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
764 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  03:56:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I cannot decide which track I hate more between Another Toe and Women of War
Both are vulgar and over-simplistic to my ears (though Women is decently recorded at least)

Talent, Tenement Song, Might As Well are not far behind...

Those five are the only Pixies 2.0 songs (so far) I think hurt the legacy


I reckon Dalgety acts as some kind of "filter", like Kim Deal did, but not drastic enough


--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"

Edited by - sdon on 08/11/2019 04:01:53
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5361 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  07:13:09  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Do we have even have the slightest proof that Kim was a filter of any kind?



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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
764 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  14:43:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Maybe filter is not the right word, but someone for whom you consciously or unconsciously raise the bar. That has been lacking in recent years I think. Paz could be having increasingly such a role though


--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"

Edited by - sdon on 08/11/2019 14:44:09
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2420 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  14:50:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Of all the things lacking in recent years “Kim’s filter” is the last thing I would think of.

“Energy and weirdness” would be two things lacking lately, which is why Another Toe and Women of War are so great.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5361 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  19:36:04  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Yes, energy and weirdness! It's true that with Kim they had plenty of that.
Not sure that she was responsible for the weird Bossanova and energetic Trompe le Monde

What do you think of BAM Thwok?

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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
764 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  21:04:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bam Thwok is pure pixies
Too cheesy I admit, but a real rollercoaster, swift, fun, with u-turns, and abrasive enough

Another Toe and Women of War are like pachyderms in comparison

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5361 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2019 :  21:39:00  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
And do you think Kim raises the bar on her own releases?

To me, I can see why Kim is cool and arty and Frank less so
Still he's the real craftsman. I respect his work class ethic.
I can think of at least 100 brilliant songs Post Pixies in various genres
Kim wrote like 50 total in that same time frame that more or less sound identical


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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2420 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2019 :  00:40:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You know those early live versions of Caribou where Kim speaks some words at various intervals? (I forget what she says). I feel like everybody eventually was like, “that’s okay Kim, you don’t have to say anything.”

The real question to be discussing here is: “how would Kim have improved Another Toe”?

Edited by - Bedbug on 08/12/2019 00:41:05
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
764 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2019 :  04:18:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Charles is more creative and prolific than Kim, for sure, that's not my point

I feel Kim's aesthetics were more consistent quality-wise, though less exploratory.
Her influence on BF is certainly complex to decrypt, but I feel it was very real.
Joey, David and Paz do not have this same impact, even if they have "contribution"

Kim wouldn't have been able to save Another Toe, but maybe prevent it from reaching recording status.


--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2420 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2019 :  04:54:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sdon

Charles is more creative and prolific than Kim, for sure, that's not my point

I feel Kim's aesthetics were more consistent quality-wise, though less exploratory.
Her influence on BF is certainly complex to decrypt, but I feel it was very real.
Joey, David and Paz do not have this same impact, even if they have "contribution"

Kim wouldn't have been able to save Another Toe, but maybe prevent it from reaching recording status.


--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"




Thank you for pointing out that Kim's gift was in hindering FBF's musical output.
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