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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1335 Posts |
 Posted - 09/05/2013 : 22:28:56
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| Hardly a surprise from the Hipster bible. It was probaby written the day after Kim left, fill in the blanks as need be. Kinda reminds me of those reviews of Bossanova and then TLM when the more hipster publications were falling over themselves to say they were a bit crap. Hopefully one less hipster (aka people who talk at gigs) at the upcoing shows. At least they've got the new Babyshams album to get on with. Did I say I don't like hipsters? |
Edited by - Sprite on 09/05/2013 22:29:55 |
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1122 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2013 : 23:39:33
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| Well said Jason. The Pixies crossed many genres and so had fans that were/are goths, punks, indie kids, rockers and fans of the alternative scene. And theyve had 20 years growing older with the albums. Anything new is going to be met by each fans expectations. And going by whatever genre of music takes your fancy its not going to be for everyone. Fans who have followed BF through his solo career will know he has embraced other types of songwriting. He has stated himself he has embraced the cliche. I enjoy the new stuff if others dont thats fine. What does annoy me though is this backlash from supposed fans coming out of the woodwork saying its not up to their expectations and its not the same without Kim Deal. Do a little research on his solo career to see where his songwriting is at. He wrote 95% or so of the Pixies catalogue - changing bassist/backing vocalist isnt going to affect the outcome hugely. I see the new EP as a single and 3 B-sides. Indy Cindie is as good as Dig For Fire and the 3 others are better than Baileys Walk, Dance the Manta Ray and Weird at My School from the top of my head. I understand waiting 20 years for a new release will make some crotchety fans even grumpier (as age does) but they really ought to get over themselves. |
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musefreek
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
14 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2013 : 23:45:00
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Pitchfork is right on the money with that review. The EP IS shit, and I think most of you guys are trying to convince yourselves that it is great. It doesn't sound anything like the Pixies and the songs are watered down pap.
1/10. Entirely accurate. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6221 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2013 : 00:45:01
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To me they deserve some respect because it doesn't sound like Doolittle 2.0
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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jake3
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2013 : 01:09:16
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Ahh, Pitchfork.
Surely a 1/10 review is to be only considered the worthy prize of the uttermost shite to have ever been spawned? A review which tells us that this music is undoubtedly the worst of the worst. Ridiculous.
EP1 - 7.5
Andro Queen - 8
Another Toe in the Ocean - 6.5
Indie Cindie - 8
What goes Boom - 7.5
Bag Boy - 8.5 |
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lucmove
- FB Fan -
Brazil
116 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2013 : 06:01:42
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quote:
Originally posted by vilainde
Sooo lucmove... Do you work for pitchfork? Spill it!
http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/18560-pixies-ep-1/
Ha! I was scratching my head until it got to the movie reference...
Nah, I don't write that well. I love the way he describes The Pixies of yore.
But did you expect any different? It seems to me most people here are fanbois who will celebrate anything that "The Man" makes, but the critic needn't and mustn't be so lenient. I knew the critic would do its proper job and it wouldn't be pretty.
________________
"- Thanks!" |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2013 : 06:14:17
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For the record: I don't like Pistolero. I hate Honeycomb and half of FMRM. I don't care for the first Grand Duchy album and I didn't even bother listening to the 2nd one. So yeah, I'm a fanboy but not a sycophant. It just happens that this ep IS good :)
Denis
Obsidiana Bijoux |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1020 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2013 : 06:24:28
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| Holy shit that Pitchfork review is unfair. And with that review the new Pixies will probably be dead amongst the throngs of conformist hipsters. |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1020 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2013 : 06:28:31
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| Holy shit that Pitchfork review is unfair. And with that review the new Pixies will probably be dead amongst the throngs of conformist hipsters. |
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1335 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2013 : 06:31:15
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The review is just a troll. It mentions Nirvana FFS...
quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
And with that review the new Pixies will probably be dead amongst the throngs of conformist hipsters.
And this is bad how? |
Edited by - Sprite on 09/06/2013 06:31:44 |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1020 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2013 : 07:34:58
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| Haha, true. Many of my friends fall into that category, so now I will have to deal with them bashing the Pixies as it will now be fashionable to do. |
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1122 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2013 : 08:01:12
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| The pitchfork review isnt a surprise when you take into account the Grand Duchy debacle so anything BF related will get shat on. I dont have a problem with fans or critics not liking his material, and while I am a fan some stuff I can take or leave - Cult of Ray, The Golem and NSE havent charmed me. What i disagree with is blatant dismissal of music due to misguided expectations or nostalgia, the laziness to invest in a little background knowledge and this perceived anger that the artist has made a mockery of its fans. Im glad the net wasnt around when Dylan went electric! |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6221 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2013 : 08:02:09
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Don't be surprised if the next ep will be Best New Music or a very high score. It's just how Pitchfork works.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =
USA
892 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2013 : 08:21:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Stevio10
The pitchfork review isnt a surprise when you take into account the Grand Duchy debacle so anything BF related will get shat on. I dont have a problem with fans or critics not liking his material, and while I am a fan some stuff I can take or leave - Cult of Ray, The Golem and NSE havent charmed me. What i disagree with is blatant dismissal of music due to misguided expectations or nostalgia, the laziness to invest in a little background knowledge and this perceived anger that the artist has made a mockery of its fans. Im glad the net wasnt around when Dylan went electric!
Exactly. Didn't love NSE, don't bother listening to FM/RM, and am not really a FB&C guy aside from SMYT. But, I just like what he is doing on these songs, they are catchy and wierd enough to be Pixies and make me listen repeatedly. I don't see a ton of fanboyism going on here, I'd day the reaction has been like 70/30 on the new stuff.
quote:
Originally posted by Jason
Yuck. Another reason to hate Pitchfork, though let us do take a moment to acknowledge the comical futility of negatively reviewing a record that sold out in one day two days earlier and is now easily available for free to anyone with an internet connection.
In any case, Frank Black (I still call him that, it just feels comfortable to me) is the epitome of a cult artist. ANYTHING he puts out is going to be controversial. Arguments will fly and opinions will clash.
It's normal and I even think it's cool.
In the spirit of some of the long-winded opinions posted here, I'll post my own long-winded opinion of the new EP, which I posted over breakfast to my piddly little rateyourmusic page (http://rateyourmusic.com/~JasonHernandez) on the day the news came out:
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The Pixies might be the most frivolous rock band to ever get taken seriously—and don't take that as a knock. Rock music IS frivolous, and gloriously so. Bands who embrace that tend to be the ones that age best. That's partly why the old Pixies records still sound good twenty-five years later. They're Grade A rock 'n' roll nonsense, powerful songs and great hooks with no message, no politics, and no deep dark confessions to get in the way. That songwriter Black Francis fancied himself a surrealist was perfect. Surrealism, like rock music, doesn't need to make a lick of sense to be good.
Francis was such a master that I wanted to continue to follow his music after the Pixies. Something in his voice and in his sense of humor resonated strongly in me from the first time I heard him. Something in there convinced me that he was never going to make music that he didn't want to make. Something convinced me that he was not afraid to be unpopular.
And I like guys like that.
And I like this new Pixies EP.
It doesn't sound like the band's old stuff, thank God. I've been following Frank Black/Black Francis's music for almost twenty years and I can tell that he's not one for nostalgia (and neither am I). These four songs aren't trips back to 1990. These are the sort of beautifully constructed melodies that Francis is writing NOW. They're follow-ups to his last lovely couple of solo albums.
He has the GALL to start it off with a ballad, "Andro Queen", a starlit and eccentric beauty worthy of late 60s Donovan, that doesn't even attempt to compete with "Debaser". "Another Toe in the Ocean" is expertly swirling pop. "Indie Cindy" starts out mellow and then goes into a weird Kurt Weill march that switches from hard to soft and then back again. The rocker comes at the end with "What Goes Boom", a fine smear of guitar riffs and swagger.
Also, in the spirit of the band's frivolity (meaning that I don't hold anything about them sacred), I say here that I officially don't care that Kim Deal has left the band. Joey Santiago's guitar is the main ingredient of their sound, anyway.
This is the first of a series of 10"/digital EPs that the band plans to release over the next year-and-a-half with no pre-order announcements. Each new release will just show up for sale out of the blue. I can hang with that.
Just wanted to say that this was a great read, and I agree with you all the way. I especially agree that you could tell he would be different and do things HIS way. Greatly respect that about him. |
Edited by - natenate101 on 09/06/2013 08:36:24 |
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lucmove
- FB Fan -
Brazil
116 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2013 : 08:42:43
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I think too many of you argue that The Pixies should not sound the same as they used to. Which is absolutely right in principle, but the real point is that the new stuff has to be good. More than different from the old, is has to be good. And to many of us, it isn't. That's what the true problem is. Please don't try to make our dissatisfaction pass for nostalgia or anachronism, because it isn't.
________________
"- Thanks!" |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2463 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2013 : 10:44:27
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| I see 'I've Been Tired' has been rehearsed, according to one of the latest Vines. BF playing a SG, too. |
Edited by - Ziggy on 09/06/2013 10:45:24 |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2013 : 11:33:39
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I don't know what the hell some of you guys are talking about - Nickleback? Blink 182? Gone Commercial? This shit is so far from fucking commercial that it might as well be PBS. You're not going to hear this on the radio. I don't know anyone outside of Pixies/Frank Black fans that would listen to this more than once, and from the looks of it some of THEM won't listen to it more than once, other than feed some kind of rage fire. The angry reaction some of you people have to this (and some critics - Pitchfork, really?) is a bit ridiculous. A band you love released something you don't like. Well Sweet Jesus, grab the torches and the rope! Get real people, stop listening to it and move on.
Obviously I love the new stuff.
Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl! |
Edited by - johnnyribcage on 09/06/2013 13:16:58 |
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moonruler
- FB Fan -
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2013 : 16:30:30
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I have only had a chance to listen to some of these songs a few times and some only a couple. And I maybe understand the negativity a little, because it is so different. But fuck if I'm not just digging it. I can't wait four the fifth or sixth listen.
As far as it being Pixies or not, it has a nice surf vibe the whole way through. It is not in your face, but it is there.
Andro Queen: Sounds like Cinema Star; I really, really like it
Another Toe: Going against the grain here. This Is My Favorite Song On the EP.
Indy Cindy: The first spoken word part is a bit over the top. All around it is a solid Pixies/FB song.
What Goes Boom: Just got done listening to this for the second time. This and Another Toe seem like such a departure, and I dig it. And, yet, there is no mistaking who it is.
Can't wait for more. And apparently more after that. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6221 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2013 : 23:55:56
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I took that Blink 182-comment back!
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2013 : 03:01:31
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Sorry Bill i didn't make it through pages 3&4, I couldn't read anymore. I had been posting on the other EP thread when I noticed this one and decided to read through. This one, at least the first couple pages, had a far more negative vibe and I was (and still am) surprised. Peace!
Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl! |
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The Holiday Son
= Quote Accumulator =
France
2010 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2013 : 12:20:25
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quote:
More than different from the old, is has to be good. And to many of us, it isn't.
We could argue that to many of us, it is ! |
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =
USA
892 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2013 : 14:11:34
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quote:
Originally posted by The Holiday Son
quote:
More than different from the old, is has to be good. And to many of us, it isn't.
We could argue that to many of us, it is !
Yup, I'd say the majority are pretty satisfied, without going over the top with praise. I see a lot of happy fans on here. |
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yarbles
= Cult of Ray =
USA
635 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2013 : 01:18:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
Holy shit that Pitchfork review is unfair. And with that review the new Pixies will probably be dead amongst the throngs of conformist hipsters.
Great. The less conformist hipsters the better in my opinion. |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2013 : 04:29:19
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quote:
Originally posted by yarbles
quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
Holy shit that Pitchfork review is unfair. And with that review the new Pixies will probably be dead amongst the throngs of conformist hipsters.
Great. The less conformist hipsters the better in my opinion.
Honestly. Pixies were never about pleasing losers with stupid glasses, drenched in irony. They are good songs.
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2013 : 04:43:37
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quote:
Originally posted by musefreek
Pitchfork is right on the money with that review. The EP IS shit, and I think most of you guys are trying to convince yourselves that it is great. It doesn't sound anything like the Pixies and the songs are watered down pap.
1/10. Entirely accurate.
Conformist hipster. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2013 : 04:59:37
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quote:
Originally posted by lucmove
"m b v" just got a lot better.
If you mean the new My Bloody Valentine album, then I liked it even before it was possible to listen to it comparatively against the new Pixies 'album'. |
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velvety
= Cult of Ray =
Portugal
536 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2013 : 07:51:32
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
quote:
Originally posted by lucmove
"m b v" just got a lot better.
If you mean the new My Bloody Valentine album, then I liked it even before it was possible to listen to it comparatively against the new Pixies 'album'.
Do you mean that because everything was exactly the same for that band as it were two decades ago?
I'm not their biggest fan, but, granted, the new MBV also had really high expectations behind it. And I think they delivered. By giving people exactly what everyone wanted. Not necessarily a great album, but something than transported everyone back to 1991, it sounds like it could have been recorded one week after Loveless. The new album has a few great songs, but nothing flat out amazing, but that sound that made them great (and that IMO, after 'Isn't Anything', took center stage in detriment of the actual quality of the songs) is still clearly there. So yes, everyone's happy with that new one, I guess.
If you want to be transported to 1988 and 1989 by these new Pixies songs, as everyone knows by now and as you have repeatedly stated on the message board, it's not going to happen. FB didn't spend 20+ years trying to do the follow up to TLM.
And Pot, Surfer Rosa and Doolittle is also my favorite Pixies period, but they moved on from that creative space and state of mind... back in 1990. It's interesting that someone here said something about these new songs being more complex than what they did back then and your response was 'LOL'. Ok, so maybe Another Toe In The Ocean isn't overflowing with ideas, but is it really that straightforward, to dismiss the idea that something like Indie Cindy could be a little more complex in terms of songwriting than Oh My Golly, Monkey Gone to Heaven or Crackity Jones? |
Edited by - velvety on 09/08/2013 07:56:16 |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2013 : 08:08:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason
In the spirit of some of the long-winded opinions posted here, I'll post my own long-winded opinion of the new EP, which I posted over breakfast to my piddly little rateyourmusic page (http://rateyourmusic.com/~JasonHernandez) on the day the news came out:
Great and well written review by the way Jason
Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl! |
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1122 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2013 : 11:17:39
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| I think this has become humourous in its own way! Can you imagine if in 10 years the Catholics reform and record and shock horror...its not recorded live to 2 track and Dave McCaffrey left the band! Besides maybe Kathryn (with her love of McDave) there would not be as big a fuss being made. Granted the Pixies have a huge following and its not a fair comparison. But any artist deserves the right to have their art (and thats what it is - art) judged on its own merits rather than against their best work. With art comes subjectivity and with universal acclaim comes expectation. Everybody has the right to their own expectation, it does after all belong to the individual. Myself personally, I expect the new Pixies to be good - as in as good as Bossanova or Trompe - for me that expectation has been met so far. However if I expected it to be as good as or better than Surfer Rosa or Doolittle I would be disappointed because most of all there are only 5 tracks so far! Everyone has their own views and I try to respect that. |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2013 : 12:12:50
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I'm appalled anyone would dislike or dismiss any of Frank's music.
People go years and finally say this or that album isn't horrible.
Not liking The Catholics recordings is inhuman. |
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Classic Masher
- FB Fan -
146 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2013 : 15:45:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Stevio10
I think this has become humourous in its own way! Can you imagine if in 10 years the Catholics reform and record and shock horror...its not recorded live to 2 track and Dave McCaffrey left the band! Besides maybe Kathryn (with her love of McDave) there would not be as big a fuss being made. Granted the Pixies have a huge following and its not a fair comparison. But any artist deserves the right to have their art (and thats what it is - art) judged on its own merits rather than against their best work. With art comes subjectivity and with universal acclaim comes expectation. Everybody has the right to their own expectation, it does after all belong to the individual. Myself personally, I expect the new Pixies to be good - as in as good as Bossanova or Trompe - for me that expectation has been met so far. However if I expected it to be as good as or better than Surfer Rosa or Doolittle I would be disappointed because most of all there are only 5 tracks so far! Everyone has their own views and I try to respect that.
Good point. I think it's amusing that in music everyone talks about certain albums not being as good as other. Nobody talks about some of Van Gogh's painting being better than others. It's purely subjective. A painting is good if it appeals to you in some way whether it's the subject, the perspective, the color, the brush strokes, etc. Even in film it seems to be understood that while a film can be judged to be good or bad, you can't expect a director's new film to be just like their last one. If directors made films that were all alike, we'd say they were out of ideas. Only in music does it seems like the audience wants exactly what the artist gave it last time (not everybody, mind you, but a lot of people).
"Mixed messages from Sir Naff, please authenticate..." |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2013 : 18:57:46
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All of my favorite musicians are guys who've been around awhile and kept going and taken lots of chances along the way. All of them are controversial somehow. All of them routinely get mixed reviews. All of them have whole sections of their body of work that even some of their big fans don't enjoy. All of them are either disliked by or ignored by or just plain not known to the fickle High Priests of Music Opinion.
I'm almost 37 years old and that's where I'm at. All of that shit above is cool to me (controversy is cool to me). I like the occasional new thing, too, but the musicians I friggin' LOVE and hold closest to my little black heart are these seasoned soldiers.
It's a small group (the number is in the low single digits) and Frank is one of them. I trust him. I like the way he thinks.
For those musicians, I don't even HAVE expectations for their new music. I don't need their new record to "rock" or "be sad" or "sound pretty" or have "killer dance beats" (I'm just pulling out descriptors at random here). Instead, I just want to hear the record that they want to make. That's my approach. Half of my brain respects this new music as an addition to a large body of work and the other half of my brain treats every new record like it's the first album they've ever put out. I'm not saying that my way is the one true right way, but that's my way for sussing out the character of a new record.
I'm also not saying that it's wrong to have expectations, but I do think that you sometimes miss out on cool shit that way. Half of the history of rock music is great stuff that didn't get recognized as such in its time because it didn't meet peoples' expectations for what was palatable.
As for this new record (probably the last thing I'll post about it because I think I've said everything that I have to say on the topic already):
1) I think it's exactly the record that Francis wanted to make.
2) I like it a lot.
3) I think it's cool if you don't like it (as I said above, I like controversy).
4) However, if you don't like it and continue to whine about it for days on end, posting nearly the exact same thing multiple times each day so that you make sure anyone who spends five minutes on this site knows your opinion, it strikes me as mental illness ("Jason thinks people who don't like the new Pixies EP are mentally ill!" No, that's not what I'm saying). If I hated a record, I might post about it once or twice. After that, I'd move on and talk about some stuff that actually interests me. Endless complaining doesn't make you look discerning. It doesn't make you look like you'd be interesting to talk to. It just makes it look like you don't have a girlfriend.
Slobbering in anticipation for EP 2,
Jason |
Edited by - Jason on 09/08/2013 19:55:58 |
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
653 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2013 : 19:43:16
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Um, Jason:
YES.
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1335 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2013 : 20:28:19
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| Brilliant! |
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2013 : 01:36:53
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ha! well put, Jason. precisely. this thread should probably closed now :)
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
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When, Pixies?! When?!
