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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
 Posted - 01/23/2022 : 10:18:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
quote:
Ozark focuses on the story and the characters, whereas BB and BCS are more leaning towards the cinematography and arty farty aspect.
Come on, pot. This is silly. First off, EVERY visual presentation should "focus" on the cinematography. That's something you...have to do when creating a TV show. Second, to say those shows don't focus on characters is...well, like I said, silly. BB and BCS are, above all else, character arcs. The plots of BCS are so nebulous and unpredictable because literally all we know about the show's goal is "what is the character arc that will turn Jimmy into Saul?"
As for artsiness, I'm genuinely not sure what you mean. BCS and BB plays things pretty straight, and has few abstractions and a lack of pretense. They're not Twin Peaks, they're not even The Sopranos. They are both character heavy, plot heavy, sometimes pulpy and funny shows about crime and morality. Symbolism, etc, (which by the way, looks to be all over Ozark judging by the heavy handed post production) is kept to a subtle minimum. I know this because I listened to dozens of episodes of the podcast where the writers and directors actually talk about this stuff. The writing and look is purposeful, sometimes symbolic or thematically driven, but it's always boiling down to "what is the character going through in this scene?"
Ozark may also be good! :)
I'm not saying cinematography isn't important, and Ozark doesn't neglect this element in any way. BCS/BB are approaching things from a more cryptic angle, whereas Ozark is more this is what happens in linear time as it happens.
It's all turning out to be an interesting reflection on current times in some way this season too - good bit of political edge to the story. Struggling a bit to follow the complex stories as it's nearly 2 years since I binged up on it all. |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2673 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2022 : 13:45:55
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Watched the first season when it came out and can attest that every scene is tinted blue, whether sunny day exterior or strip club interior, even the deepest shadows have blue in them. Am watching it again as it is well written and acted and have heard they kept up the quality, but it is a weird choice to make the entire series that muted - and that's coming from someone who likes the cold blue looks on films like Gone Girl and The Game, but even they have differently-coloured scenes to contrast the main palette.
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Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2022 : 14:14:26
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| You guy's must be watching the blue tinted version then because the Ozark I'm seeing now has all the colours in the right places. Maybe they get a bit too carried away with the bokeh at times, maybe some of it's fake digital bokeh but other than that I'm only seeing very slight blue tint in some scenes and otherwise normal or >95% normal at least.. |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2673 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2022 : 15:29:20
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Here's a frame from the first season, broad daylight yet it is tinted like a Robert Redford conspiracy thriller from the 70s. The Ozarks in their natural state are as green as Ireland, so someone spent many post-production hours in front of a computer making sure it didn't look that way as most likely it would have killed the mood to have the characters with flush and healthy pink skin walking around in such beautiful verdant surroundings.
Do an image search for "ozarks green", you'll see nature shots with vibrant green side by side with stills from the series so you can get an idea of exactly how desaturated a look the series is going for.
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Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
815 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2022 : 17:27:26
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This also spurred my reaction to Ozark's look.
https://youtu.be/ctXc6YHIyac
(why isn't the image working?)
To be honest, pot, I'm beginning to suspect something is off about your TV settings. Object to it or not, the show is tinted blue in most every shot, and often incredibly blatantly. Again...everyone seems to see this. It's a common subject when the show comes up. You keep saying it must be my TV: I've never even seen it on my television. I have only seen articles and youtube videos about the topic. |
Edited by - Troubles A Foot on 01/23/2022 17:33:41 |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2022 : 02:07:21
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Nothing wrong with my monitor - like I say it's brand new and fairly accurate in terms of gamuts and contrasts. HP is the company who invented sRGB space which is one of the main industry standards and my computer is a new entry level high spec gaming PC. Compared with my older monitor which is a crappy Hanns-G - this represents colours a lot less accurately.
So it's the fact they are misrepresenting the Ozarks that's bothering folk?
I don't know how you know every shot is tinted blue if you've never watched the whole series Troubles? It's really not at all. Or if it is it's so minimal it's hardly noticeable, or just mostly confined to the aireal shots of the Ozarks. Some of the scenes of the Ozarks may be blue tinted like the shot Newo posted, although I don't remember it being quite as dark as that when I watched it. That said, I can still see everything in the scene in that shot clearly - it just looks like it's representing a twilight scene. There must be times in the day in the Ozarks when it's twilight?
Lots of shows apply a bit of filter to the scenes, and sometimes it works and other times it's probably a bit grotesque (cf. Channel 4 series Utopia - overrated pile of wank IMO). Ozark seems fairly minimal in it's application of that and this hasn't in any way affected my enjoyment of the show.
Video production technology has made leaps and bounds over the past few decades. I really don't get what the fuss is over a bit of blue tint. I don't know if they use this on Star trek Discovery but the visuals on that show didn't really agree with me too much - also the lens flares and camera angles were a bit over the top - the main reason Discovery sucks is the terrible writing and characters though.
Every scene in Ozark is perfectly clear and sharp (apart from the blurring in and out occasionally obvs) and it is a work of fiction - as opposed to a documentary on the Ozarks. So sorry again, I still don't see what the big drama is over a bit of blue tint that is applied in some scenes.. |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2673 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2022 : 08:05:39
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That scene wasn't twilight but the middle of the day, and sure, while it is mildly overcast, even the scenes of cloudless day on the lake are that dark too. It's not about misrepresenting the Ozarks so much as 40 hours of underexposed footage which causes the image to lose a sense of dimension. Joe Public is not in the habit of talking widely about cinematography so when there's a buzz about something that is more often strictly the province of nerds, there is usually something to it. If you don't mind it there's no arguing with that, but like it or not, Ozark is literally the bluest series to date - the only thing bluer is Derek Jarman's Blue, which was made when he was going blind and has no other colour at all.
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Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2022 : 10:50:38
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| Sure Newo I guess scenes were shot in the middle of the day - but they wanted it to look like twilight, because it's a work of fiction. I've seen way bluer films than this, and I don't mean blue movies. |
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Stevio10
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1072 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2022 : 11:21:47
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| Hope you guys haven't watched How Green Was My Valley, not green at all. |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2673 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2022 : 12:10:22
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No I don't mean blue movies either, apart from blue movies. It's a fine show, anything with Harris Yulin as a side character I'll enjoy, though not all in one go, shall intersperse with guitar videos to razz the contrast a bit in lieu of four seasons of blue peach fuzz neat.
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Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
815 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2022 : 12:25:21
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| Did someone say Twilight? Those movies have that same unappealing blue filter on them, no matter where the scene is or what time of day or anything. Everybody looks like Mr. Freeze! |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2962 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2022 : 04:22:31
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This reminds me of how people couldn't handle what Spielberg did with Saving Private Ryan, so when the networks and cable affiliates show it they change the color back to more acceptable norms.
Good for Ozark for trying something different. I don't mind the taste. |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2673 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2022 : 04:46:51
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rocking the B on the colour wheel is hardly new, that's what we have Colin Farrell thrillers from the 2000s for.
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Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs. |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2962 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2022 : 07:53:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Newo
rocking the B on the colour wheel is hardly new, that's what we have Colin Farrell thrillers from the 2000s for.
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Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs.
Then why are so many people freaking out over it? |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2673 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2022 : 11:05:03
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mm freaking out dunno, some interesting points all round.
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Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
815 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2022 : 14:11:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
Then why are so many people freaking out over it?
I don't think freaking out is a far assessment, but people are criticizing it because, to be blunt, it looks ugly and unappealing. And if I may make some assumptions, I think people have seized on this aspect of Ozark because - and this is not an opinion about the quality of the writing as I have not seen the show - it looks emblematic of "prestige TV" trying to be "sophisticated" and "dark" (thematically) in a fairly on-the-nose way that reveals a kind of "desperation to be taken seriously", whereas as other celebrated works don't need to rely on gimmicks or shorthand ("dark" = DARK!!), but simply complex and more subtle storytelling and character work (have I mentioned I have not seen Ozark?)
You'll find similar mocking and suspicions when a film or TV show puts in an overdramatic score. Or maybe one too many dutch angles. Or maybe a pretentious quotation at the start of the movie. If The Sopranos looked tinted red in every. single. scene, people would be noting it. It would probably prevent some from watching.
I remember checking out the pilot for The Shield (a show I'm dying to watch), and there's this shaky cam shot of a dog that made me laugh. Why? It just felt like very forced stylization... "you don't even KNOW how tough these streets are! WE CAN'T EVEN KEEP THIS CAMERA STRAIGHT! SCARY DOG OH NO!!!"
I'm not usually nitpicky in this way. I can be pretty forgiving of visual elements I dislike (these days, my god, you HAVE to be.) But sometimes things jump out. Like a shaky closeup shot of a dog, or like every scene in a multi-hour TV show being blue and everybody's skin looking like Mr. Freeze.
This is why I was perplexed by pot comparing shows and saying BB and Better Call Saul are the "arty" ones. Their presentations are totally direct. Almost nothing as blatantly stylistic and "arty" as the exaggerated blue filter, low contrast and dark look of Ozark. If I had to pick, I'd say Ozark is the one with the most arty pretense. But it happens to be a style I find visually "too much" and unappealing. For fairness, I had the same reaction when Breaking Bad did one scene with that camera-strapped-to-actors-head move that I find really unpleasant.
Hope that makes sense.
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Edited by - Troubles A Foot on 01/25/2022 14:32:31 |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2022 : 04:42:10
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Bit of classic Star trek last night - all episodes of which I've not actually seen. S3ep22 - The Savage Curtain - an encounter with an alien being claiming to be Abraham Lincoln. I wonder what contemporary cancel culture would think of the comments he made towards Uhura, calling her a "negress"? No one was offended, because apparently in the future the human race no longer takes offence at words.
Cutting edge TV from 50 years ago that challenged society appears to have a more progressive and logical approach to free speech than we currently have now. |
Edited by - pot on 01/26/2022 04:44:19 |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2962 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2022 : 06:27:15
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Succession is an absolute blast. The most fun I've had watching a tv show in a long time. Like an amusement park ride you never want to end.
Ozark is grueling on the psyche, in the vein of Breaking Bad, so maybe not as much pure fun as Succession, but still brilliant. And Jason Bateman is so freaking gifted. He's up there with Cranston for sure. But one of the biggest differences between the shows is the wives. I can't wait for the finale, no idea where it's going.
And pot, interesting re: Star Trek. I don't remember that episode, I'll have to check it out. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2022 : 07:21:10
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Yeah I laughed and thought, here we go..
But no, they had a different version of wokism in those days. basically what I've been trying to say for years - it's just a word. Instead of censoring offensive words, why not use them more in a positive light and repurpose them so they are no longer considered offensive? I've had many a philosophical debate about that one over a beer or two and rarely does anyone agree with me - apart from Gene Roddenberry in the 1960's apparently.
Suck it up snowflakes! |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
815 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2022 : 09:33:09
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pot, 100% agree with what you say. All I see lately is catastrophizing about every little thing and it's the opposite of healthy. I sincerely think the best antidote for all this is: talk about everything openly as much as possible. Don't be afraid of words. Don't be afraid of jokes. Laughing together will ease tension. Forgive people. Pay less attention to what celebrity said or did what problematic thing. Focus on friends and family and getting personal projects done. Stop trying to be a crusader for marginalized people because many are doing it in condescending, unproductive, counterintuitive ways. Just take care of YOURSELF and your loved ones first and foremost.
Unfortunately I don't see any of that happening any time soon. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2022 : 14:24:40
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Indeed.
Anyway, The Sinner 4 just dropped - a few really dark blue tinted scenes in there to drive everyone wild, like way more than Ozark. I now notice these things more, but it honestly doesn't bother me it's just a new technology being used in video production. I guess these scenes in particular were blue tinted because they were taking place at night - in the past there would either be poor visuals or they would have lights placed to allow the viewer to see what is going on (lights that make no sense being there other than for that purpose) |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2962 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2022 : 08:52:44
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Boba Fett is terrific, John Favreau single handedly saving Star Wars from the wreckage of Disney's sequels.
Been spending a lot of time with The Thin Red Line (1998). Would I say it's better than Saving Private Ryan? Yes, in some ways definitely. But why compare? If it's been a while since you've seen it give it a go.
Also, continuing down the rabbit hole of YouTube videos that argue pretty convincingly that Eyes Wide Shut is the best thing Kubrick ever did. I wouldn't go that far, but it's a masterpiece even if he wasn't done baking his cake. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2022 : 10:07:51
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| For a second there I thought you said "Eyes Wide Shut is the best thing Kubrick ever did" |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2962 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2022 : 11:29:46
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
For a second there I thought you said "Eyes Wide Shut is the best thing Kubrick ever did"
Yeah, I wouldn't say that at all, and on second thought maybe "master piece" gets thrown around too lightly as well. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
815 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2022 : 13:08:37
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| I'd call it a masterpiece. One of my favorite films. One of Kubrick's best. But basically all of them are. He was a quality over quantity kind of guy. I even recently went to a screening of his very first film, Fear and Desire, and loved it. |
Edited by - Troubles A Foot on 01/27/2022 13:33:32 |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2022 : 13:45:52
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It's a good film. But it's got 2001, Clock Orange, Barry Lyndon, The Shining and Full Metal Jack to compete with.
Those five films pretty much own every other film ever made in the history of cinema. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
815 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2022 : 15:34:50
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| I like Eyes Wide Shut more than a few of those. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2022 : 05:02:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
I like Eyes Wide Shut more than a few of those.
Is it the mask scene that swings it for you? |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2673 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2022 : 05:47:51
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Never understood why people view Eyes Wide Shut as a quality outlier, its dreamlike and subversive power still offputting for many.
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Allen Ginsberg says you got no soul. The ancient Egyptians say you got seven of these bastards, and Pharaohs got fourteen, what they get for being Pharaohs. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
815 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2022 : 09:09:35
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
I like Eyes Wide Shut more than a few of those.
Is it the mask scene that swings it for you?
No, it's every scene. My favorite director is David Lynch. My favorite Kubrick films are the ones that brush up against dreams, surrealism and an intangible strangeness. The Shining, 2001, and Eyes Wide Shut.
I also think it may be his most beautifully photographed film, alongside Barry Lyndon. |
Edited by - Troubles A Foot on 01/28/2022 13:54:20 |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2022 : 10:24:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
quote:
Originally posted by pot
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
I like Eyes Wide Shut more than a few of those.
Is it the mask scene that swings it for you?
No, it's every scene. My favorite director is David Lynch. My favorite Kubrick films are the ones that brush up against, dreams, surrealism and an intangible strangeness. The Shining, 2001, and Eyes Wide Shut.
I also think it may be his most beautifully photographed film, alongside Barry Lyndon.
2001 is surely his greatest visual masterpiece? It's all good stuff though. Sadly I've never actually watched all of Barry Lyndon but I have seen a good chunk of it and can see that it is a very good film. I thought the mask scene in Eyes was an amazing peice of cinema - can't remember what the music was but I remember making a mental note to find out. It's not just the visuals with Kubrick, it's the musical scores as well. I'd probably say Clock was my favourite for the music, with 2001 a close second.
I saw Eyes Wide Shut in Borehamwood cinema when it came out - not far from where 2001 and The Shining were filmed. That's the amazing thing about The Shining I recently learned too - it was pretty much all filmed in Elstree Studios. Totally looks like inside the hotel, but it's actually all studio sets - even the maze scene I think! |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
815 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2022 : 13:56:38
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| Oh wow yes. One of my life goals is to visit the exterior of the hotel, which is actually in Oregon and only about 4 hours from my fiance's sister's house. So one time when we visit (which we do often) we plan to do that. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2022 : 14:02:59
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| Cool as fuck. I'd go there for a look around if I lived near probably. Send us a postcard. |
Edited by - pot on 01/28/2022 14:28:37 |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
815 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2022 : 14:32:38
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| I highly recommend vacations where you look up locations from your favorite films and TV. It's become a really fun thing to add to a to-do list when me and my fiance travel. In San Francisco we sought out places that were in The Room and on the opposite end of the spectrum, Vertigo. We spent two or three full days seeking out Twin Peaks locations in Washington, in fact I think we got literally almost every single one...there's barely any remaining at this point, until we go more to LA and find some others when the shooting moved there. Sometimes when we travel I'll just google what stuff was shot where we are, sometimes it's literally right around the corner. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2022 : 14:52:06
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| I'm sure there's an app now, and if I ever travelled across the native lands it'd be pinging left, right and centre. There would be some tough decisions to make. Plenty in Scotland too though - I decided to go out for a drink in 2018 one night in my local town. If I'd gone the night before it was full of the cast and crew of the film Robert The Bruce who had just finished filmed at the bridge there - I saw them taking the set down. Other than that - used to go out clubbing and pulling birds in the early 90's in The Volcano in Glasgow, now gone but features as the nightclub in Trainspotting. |
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What are you watching?
