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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
 Posted - 01/21/2013 : 11:27:27
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From a suggestion by Cult of Frank...
I usually enjoy reading interviews & reviews but unless an artist has done something horrible, which may affect my appreciation of their work (I have a difficult time separating artist and art), I don't have any interest in their personal life.
Regarding the break-up of the Pixies, sure, if someone from the band directly addressed it and said specifically what had happened, I'd read about it, but I don't really care.
I've read enough articles and Fool the World to draw a rough guess as to what happened, but I don't feel like it's my business. And I know from painful personal experience, that how one person experiences an event may not be how it was for another, especially with the passage of time. Frank sent a fax, he didn't send a fax, what matters is that he ended the band. Their music continued to exist and we've been graced with a series of reunion tours. I got to see them twice and I never thought I would; I'm pretty happy with that.
I enjoy this place because it's (as far as I know) the best source of information and opinion on Frank's music, be it with Pixies, Catholics, on his own, Paley, etc. i like reading other's opinions, particularly those who are passionate about a subject, and again, I don't know of another place where people care just as much about Frank's albums as the Pixies.
This place is funny, friendly and sometimes thought-provoking.
How far is too far? For me, anything that goes into their personal lives is too much. It's one thing if they offer something up, but to seek out their private information feels wrong.
The most important transaction isn't the financial one but rather my personal experience with the music itself. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 11:45:15
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Thought-provoking thread, arm. I agreed, especially with this:
quote:
Originally posted by Arm Arm Arm
The most important transaction isn't the financial one but rather my personal experience with the music itself.
Also, I've never gotten over meeting a novelist whose work I loved and realizing she was a very unpleasant person.
I remember sitting in a basement listening to Fields of Marigold until I passed out.
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 12:07:36
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am i the only one who finds this thread to be ironic?
 green star member since 2006. smb? |
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Fissile
= Cult of Ray =
518 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 12:31:13
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
Thought-provoking thread, arm. I agreed, especially with this:
quote:
Originally posted by Arm Arm Arm
The most important transaction isn't the financial one but rather my personal experience with the music itself.
Also, I've never gotten over meeting a novelist whose work I loved and realizing she was a very unpleasant person.
I remember sitting in a basement listening to Fields of Marigold until I passed out.
How does the old adage go? Oh yeah, "Never meet your heroes". Having lived in the New York City area my entire life, I've seen quite a few "celebrities" walking around. Most fail to impress. I once mistook Johnny Depp for a homeless guy.
As for etiquette, I'm American, I don't know the meaning of the word. Seriously, when a person deliberately seeks out the limelight, it's understood that they are forfeiting their privacy.....you can't have it both ways.
Why am I interested in what goes on behind the scenes? Because no one comes into this life like Athena sprung from the head of Zeus. Hitler wasn't disgorged from a hell portal hobnailed jackboots and all. Something made these people, and their stories fascinate me. |
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Fissile
= Cult of Ray =
518 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 12:33:04
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
am i the only one who finds this thread to be ironic?
green star member since 2006. smb?
You should move to Brooklyn...the Pabst Blue Ribbon awaits you. |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 14:25:19
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---Sorry you had that experience, Kathryn. That must've been quite the disappointing blow.
---Yeah, there are some people who want fame, but maybe they regret it once they have it, I don't know. Others though, I think, achieve fame as a by-product of their passion. But it was never their goal. And aside from one's talent that brings the fame, most likely everything else in their lives is ordinary.
I think trying to trace the origins of someone's creativity/talent is pointless, because while you can look at possible influences, there remains something ineffable about it.
I think our society would be much improved if people weren't obsessed with the private lives of actors, musicians etc. They don't deserve have their privacy violated. |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 15:05:03
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Why in 2013 is the Pixies break-up considered a mystery to anyone at all?
The band have talked about it. People who knew the band then have talked about it. In dozens of press articles. In books. In a documentary film.
It's not exactly the Kennedy assassination. It wasn't a CIA plot. The Pixies broke up for the same pretty mundane reasons that lots of bands have broken up over. It's not all that sensational. What more information does anyone need? The shirt Frank wore when he sent out the fax?
In any case, I can MAYBE stomach someone probing into a musician's personal life IF that person does it because they're interested in the music. They want to get deeper into the music. They have interesting things to say about the music. They post a lot about the music.
FrankBlack.net's resident gossip-obsessed TMZ wannabe goofball, uh, fails that particular test. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 15:20:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Fissile
quote:
Originally posted by floop
am i the only one who finds this thread to be ironic?
green star member since 2006. smb?
You should move to Brooklyn...the Pabst Blue Ribbon awaits you.
i live in Silver Lake, which is probably worse actually, as far as cool ironic fashion goes. also, i only drink good beer. but thanks. very clever fissile.
i just find it ironic to post an elaborate essay on a fan message board about how you don't care that much, and other people shouldn't care, about private lives of our favorite musicians etc. guess i'm alone on that
for once i actually agree with fissile though, to a degree, sadly. not regarding Frank Black specifically but public figures in general. watching the Golden Globes this year (i like seeing Salma Hayek) i was struck by Jodie Foster's speech. not the quasi- coming out part, but the part where she was earnestly lecturing about how important privacy is for people like them. and then they cut to all the stars and they all look serious and they're nodding and clapping, agreeing with her.
i just found the whole thing, yep..... ironic. and ridiculous. people who just arrived in a limo and walked down the red carpet, pausing for 10,000 photos and doing a million interviews for E entertainment and whatever the fuck.. seems kind of fucking stupid to be one of those people and complain about privacy. you put yourself in the limelight, that is part of the package.
if you want to be an artist and be private, be like Woody Allen and don't even go to those events. or don't do interviews.
not comparing Frank to Hollywood celebrities by any means. and i actually do think it's creepy for people to pry really deeply into private lives of people they're fans of. but, again sadly, there is some truth to what fissile says
i don't know what the proper etiquette would be but for me i think someone's age factors in. if a girl or guy is 17 years old and "obsessed" with their favorite musician and want to know everything about them, i think that's one thing. if a guy is in his early 40's and living in his parent's basement, unemployed, rarely wears shirts, collects knives, has several sets of nunchucks and an array of chinese stars.. and, wants to know everything about their favorite artist, somehow that seems different. maybe more of a red flag
green star member since 2006. smb? |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 15:35:37
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
quote:
Originally posted by Fissile
quote:
Originally posted by floop
am i the only one who finds this thread to be ironic?
green star member since 2006. smb?
You should move to Brooklyn...the Pabst Blue Ribbon awaits you.
i just find it ironic to post an elaborate essay on a fan message board about how you don't care that much, and other people shouldn't care, about private lives of our favorite musicians etc. guess i'm alone on that
I think it would be ironic or perhaps, hypocritical of me to start this thread, if I spent my time on the forum delving into Frank's (or Kim's or etc.) life. Whatever Cult-of-Frank's intent when he mentioned this as a topic, I thought it would be interesting and also offered me an opportunity to crystallize my random thoughts and feelings about the issue.
To me, it seems especially appropriate because this is a fan forum. Why not discuss what people think about this? Besides taking a moment to publicly express my thoughts, I was curious to hear other's takes.
Though, based on my perception of this place, I don't think most people care about Frank's (or anyone's) personal life. It seems like most everyone here is on the same page, fuck the gossip, let's talk the tunes!
Regarding those celebrities who seek the paparrazzi, etc. I understand that some people are like that and court the attention, even if they complain about it. My focus is more on those who want to act, perform, etc. but aren't in it to be in some tabloid or on an exploitative website, etc.
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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =
996 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 15:40:41
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I dunno, I think it's feasible to go to an awards show (a celebration of you, your contemporaries and your medium) and still desire a little privacy. Obviously some 'celebrities' enjoy the attention but I don't think a person should have their privacy scrapped solely on the basis of their profession. There's just something that doesn't sit right with the notion that they 'have it [the invasion of their privacy] coming' if they become successful at their job.
Hopefully that makes sense. I don't mind fanboys/girls wanting to discover every little titbit about someone if they're doing it in a harmless fashion, whereas inventions like the paparazzi annoy the hell out of me. Same goes for people who just want to dig up dirt for the hell of it. |
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 16:06:04
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| personally "Inside of you" settled this question awhile ago. |
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Fissile
= Cult of Ray =
518 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 16:09:33
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
i live in Silver Lake, which is probably worse actually, as far as cool ironic fashion goes. also, i only drink good beer. but thanks. very clever fissile.
i just find it ironic to post an elaborate essay on a fan message board about how you don't care that much, and other people shouldn't care, about private lives of our favorite musicians etc. guess i'm alone on that
for once i actually agree with fissile though, to a degree, sadly. not regarding Frank Black specifically but public figures in general. watching the Golden Globes this year (i like seeing Salma Hayek) i was struck by Jodie Foster's speech. not the quasi- coming out part, but the part where she was earnestly lecturing about how important privacy is for people like them. and then they cut to all the stars and they all look serious and they're nodding and clapping, agreeing with her.
i just found the whole thing, yep..... ironic. and ridiculous. people who just arrived in a limo and walked down the red carpet, pausing for 10,000 photos and doing a million interviews for E entertainment and whatever the fuck.. seems kind of fucking stupid to be one of those people and complain about privacy. you put yourself in the limelight, that is part of the package.
if you want to be an artist and be private, be like Woody Allen and don't even go to those events. or don't do interviews.
not comparing Frank to Hollywood celebrities by any means. and i actually do think it's creepy for people to pry really deeply into private lives of people they're fans of. but, again sadly, there is some truth to what fissile says
i don't know what the proper etiquette would be but for me i think someone's age factors in. if a girl or guy is 17 years old and "obsessed" with their favorite musician and want to know everything about them, i think that's one thing. if a guy is in his early 40's and living in his parent's basement, unemployed, rarely wears shirts, collects knives, has several sets of nunchucks and an array of chinese stars.. and, wants to know everything about their favorite artist, somehow that seems different. maybe more of a red flag
green star member since 2006. smb?
You agree with me! Well, this will freak you out, I agree with you! Maladjusted, middle-aged, stalkers need intervention. I'm not the guy at the Pixies shows holding the sign that reads, "Will you marry me, Kim?" (Who is that guy?) Fact is that I've never walked up to a famous person I've seen on the street. That's some creepy ass shit. BTW, it's not uncommon to see Woody Allen walking around New York....he doesn't hide from the world...no, I've never talked to him.
Like I said, I'm fascinated by the stories of famous/accomplished people, and that's not limited to musicians. I studied the minutia of Bill Gates' life to understand what makes him tick. Did you know that his grandfather, the banker, set him up with a million dollar trust fund when he was born? Did you know that IBM approached Gates looking for an OS for their PC largely by accident?
Getting back to music, I think I've read every book available about Charles Manson. Did you know that Manson is connected to the music industry through Brian Wilson and Terry Melcher(son of Doris Day)? Did you know that one of Thompson's songs was influenced by a Brian Wilson song, which in turn was influenced by a Charles Manson song?
It's the odd connections, the seemingly random events, the interpersonal group dynamics that I find fascinating.......how these things shape people who become famous or accomplished.
Sorry to disappoint you, but there is no actually stalking going on....not by me. |
Edited by - Fissile on 01/21/2013 16:27:24 |
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 16:24:16
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
Thought-provoking thread, arm. I agreed, especially with this:
quote:
Originally posted by Arm Arm Arm
The most important transaction isn't the financial one but rather my personal experience with the music itself.
Also, I've never gotten over meeting a novelist whose work I loved and realizing she was a very unpleasant person.
I remember sitting in a basement listening to Fields of Marigold until I passed out.
Do you mean she said or did something that any reasonable person would find unpleasant? It must have been bad for you not to think she was just having an off day. I'm guessing awful manners.
It's impertinent to ask, I know, but it's very much to the point of this thread to ask.
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2013 : 19:07:58
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
Thought-provoking thread, arm. I agreed, especially with this:
quote:
Originally posted by Arm Arm Arm
The most important transaction isn't the financial one but rather my personal experience with the music itself.
Also, I've never gotten over meeting a novelist whose work I loved and realizing she was a very unpleasant person.
I remember sitting in a basement listening to Fields of Marigold until I passed out.
everybody knows that Anne Rice is a witch |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 05:26:37
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It's a Dennis Wilson song btw, but fair point
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 07:12:47
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I was in a bookstore, turned a corner to see Margaret Atwood sitting at a desk.
I ran away. |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 08:09:05
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Thanks Denis. I'm a monarchist. Lux and Ivy are my royal family.
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
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Discoking
* Dog in the Sand *
Belgium
1120 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 08:28:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Fissile
I'm not the guy at the Pixies shows holding the sign that reads, "Will you marry me, Kim?" (Who is that guy?)
that would be me.
i don't live in my parents' basement though. they don't have a basement. i live in what is basically an upgraded shed in their back garden. so don't put that basement shit on me!
 it's educational |
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Discoking
* Dog in the Sand *
Belgium
1120 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 08:31:05
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quote:
Originally posted by The Maharal
I dunno, I think it's feasible to go to an awards show (a celebration of you, your contemporaries and your medium) and still desire a little privacy. Obviously some 'celebrities' enjoy the attention but I don't think a person should have their privacy scrapped solely on the basis of their profession. There's just something that doesn't sit right with the notion that they 'have it [the invasion of their privacy] coming' if they become successful at their job.
Hopefully that makes sense. I don't mind fanboys/girls wanting to discover every little titbit about someone if they're doing it in a harmless fashion, whereas inventions like the paparazzi annoy the hell out of me. Same goes for people who just want to dig up dirt for the hell of it.
i agree with this.
it's educational |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 10:18:55
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I think everyone deserves privacy, but there is truth to the notion that if you seek a profession that entails you being in the limelight, and famous to whatever degree, you willingly give up some degrees of your privacy. not "they had it coming".. no one said that
I personally don't buy the claim to be above gossip and completely uninterested in the personal lives of people you're a fan of. it only seems natural to be curious. there is obviously a balance to this. if you're looking up where they live and digging through their garbage, that's something else entirely. but who hasn't been interested in whatever tidbits have floated out there? Frank talked a lot about his divorce during that time, and therapy, and how it affected his songwriting. found that interesting. or when Frank mentioned that there was a drunken fist fight in the van near the end of the Catholics, i found that intruguing. I think when people share things in interviews it's not invading their privacy.
if someone found out that David Lovering has prescription medication for athletes foot, and posted about it without him knowing, that would be tacky.
someone needs to create a Venn diagram of fandom. one circle will be "owns multiple Chinese stars"
I hate to say it fissile but i think having a bookshelf of Charles Manson biographies could be a fed flag to potential dates you might bring home
green star member since 2006. smb? |
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Fissile
= Cult of Ray =
518 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 10:24:20
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
I think everyone deserves privacy, but there is truth to the notion that if you seek a profession that entails you being in the limelight, and famous to whatever degree, you willingly give up some degrees of your privacy. not "they had it coming".. no one said that
I personally don't buy the claim to be above gossip and completely uninterested in the personal lives of people you're a fan of. it only seems natural to be curious. there is obviously a balance to this. if you're looking up where they live and digging through their garbage, that's something else entirely. but who hasn't been interested in whatever tidbits have floated out there? Frank talked a lot about his divorce during that time, and therapy, and how it affected his songwriting. found that interesting. or when Frank mentioned that there was a drunken fist fight in the van near the end of the Catholics, i found that intruguing. I think when people share things in interviews it's not invading their privacy.
if someone found out that David Lovering has prescription medication for athletes foot, and posted about it without him knowing, that would be tacky.
someone needs to create a Venn diagram of fandom. one circle will be "owns multiple Chinese stars"
I hate to say it fissile but i think having a bookshelf of Charles Manson biographies could be a fed flag to potential dates you might bring home
green star member since 2006. smb?
I suppose that would be true if I ONLY had books about homicidal maniacs. I've got books on lots of topics besides hippie-cult murders. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 10:28:27
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I guess I'm also referring to volume of books. you said you've read every one. having 1 Manson book displayed is a nice conversation starter. having 20 could be a conversation ender
green star member since 2006. smb? |
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Fissile
= Cult of Ray =
518 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 10:52:33
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
I guess I'm also referring to volume of books. you said you've read every one. having 1 Manson book displayed is a nice conversation starter. having 20 could be a conversation ender
green star member since 2006. smb?
Here's a random sample of books you'll find on one of my bookshelves:
Teach Yourself C#
Das Kapital
Mein Kampf
Book on DIY Picture Framing
The Theory of the Leisure Class
An Unauthorized Biography Of Frank Sinatra
Dancing Wu Li Masters
Secrets of Methamphetamine Manufacture
The Manson File
If you'd like, I can put up the entire list and you can tell me which ones you don't approve of.
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 12:15:38
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| list list list ... |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 13:17:12
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Thanks AAA for the topic, and I agree, I have feelings about what is right and wrong but I haven't sat down and crystallized it. I don't think that there's much irony (sadly, I do enjoy good irony) in a group of fans talking about where this line but I get what you're saying floop. Fissile, if the Manson file or Mein Kampf aren't red flags, having that book on C# definitely is.
 "If we hit this bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate." |
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Fissile
= Cult of Ray =
518 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 14:01:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
Thanks AAA for the topic, and I agree, I have feelings about what is right and wrong but I haven't sat down and crystallized it. I don't think that there's much irony (sadly, I do enjoy good irony) in a group of fans talking about where this line but I get what you're saying floop. Fissile, if the Manson file or Mein Kampf aren't red flags, having that book on C# definitely is.
"If we hit this bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."
I like the cut of your jib. |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 18:37:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
...having that book on C# definitely is.
The truly obsessive Frank Black fan would have a book on C# minor. |
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2013 : 15:35:38
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quote:
Originally posted by BLT
quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
...having that book on C# definitely is.
The truly obsessive Frank Black fan would have a book on C# minor.
bless your heart.
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2013 : 18:32:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Discoking
i don't live in my parents' basement though. they don't have a basement. i live in what is basically an upgraded shed in their back garden. so don't put that basement shit on me!
it's educational
I'm an obsessed fan of this posting. |
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Discoking
* Dog in the Sand *
Belgium
1120 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2013 : 20:30:58
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why thank you, fan.
it's educational |
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tisasawath
= Cult of Ray =
Wallis and Futuna Islands
783 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2013 : 01:40:13
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yeah, i too believe in everyone's right to piracy.
yarrrrr!
i'll be here all week.
but please, do not dishonour the shuriken by calling it a Chinese star!
as for fan obsessions, they're just the basic desire to feel the presence of whatever qualities the artist is famed for, but then concentrating on their other and less relevant aspects and taking it beyond the healthy and into the pointless realm, like trying to find out what brand of soap they're using as if that's what made them what they are. very useful phenomenon for stars launching their own brand of some banal product.
in short, don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_207297&feature=iv&src_vid=sDW6vkuqGLg&v=LH1GFaw09hk |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2013 : 18:00:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Fissile
I once mistook Johnny Depp for a homeless guy.
I once mistook Shane McGowan for a homeless guy! Although I'm sure I'm not the first... |
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tisasawath
= Cult of Ray =
Wallis and Futuna Islands
783 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2013 : 21:11:01
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| re. Chinese stars - dumber things have happened. in '89 Lemmy of Motorhead could've lost his hand after he got hit by razors taped to each side of a large coin, while onstage, then continued the rest of the show, but later the hand got infected and badly swollen. happened in my hometown, sadly. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2013 : 18:40:54
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he's lucky he didn't get star'd in the eye, or ballsac.
how do you know it got infected?
green star member since 2006. smb? |
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tisasawath
= Cult of Ray =
Wallis and Futuna Islands
783 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2013 : 00:20:53
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exactly, could've ended worse. it's ironic he'd been aware and vocal about safety issues for some time before. here's a fan's transcript from a magazine at the time, this part is pretty alarming: "Tom Araya, Jeff Hannemann, Bob The Blitzer and everyone else on the tour was astounded to find that in every audience (yes, EVERY one) there were people who wished to either a) harm the band, perhaps tragically/mortally or b) harm themselves."
http://imotorhead.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=700
he talked about the coin incident here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGlHmtnze7o
a year later they were back in town and i was just old enough to be impressed by loud fast music, but no luck.. they were fine at the press conference hours before the show, Lemmy was reportedly in his usual routine of cementing downed beers with shots of pear brandy, they were cheerful, but later at the show we learned that Philthy the drummer OD'ed on undiluted coke so they hit the ER instead of the stage. we got to see and hear a very good supporting band and got a refund. that was one of the incidents that later got the drummer fired.
Lemmy's been around quite a lot, i wasn't aware he was a roadie for Hendrix and he gave bass playing lessons to Sid Vicious.
here's a charming entry in wiki: "At the age of 17, he met a holidaying girl named Cathy. Lemmy followed her to Stockport, Cheshire, where she had his son Sean." |
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The Etiquette of Fandom: how far is too far?
