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The Maharal
= Cult of Ray =

628 Posts

Posted - 07/20/2012 :  16:36:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm usually in the "artist can do whatever he or she ruddy well wants" and I have no real investment in this boxset business but this does come across as quite bizarre.

Reminds me of the disappointment caused by Minotaur, or rather the promotion that preceded it.
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johnnyribcage
= Cult of Ray =

USA
771 Posts

Posted - 07/20/2012 :  16:54:56  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well put Jose




Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl!
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *

1348 Posts

Posted - 07/20/2012 :  20:20:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage

On vinyl? That's a lot of work and investment on their part. If that happens, I'd be surprised. Surprised but happy. I can see doing that with digital releases. Vinyl is an expensive format in every way. We'll see.



Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl!



My guess is that the vinyl box set (and maybe the CD set, too) will be some ultra-limited "collector" thing, a la the GOLEM set. It's going to be way too expensive for anyone but collectors. I'll be surprised if they press more than 500, won't be surprised if they press less.

Also, Spring 2013 raises the possibility that it could be a Record Store Day release.

Edited by - Jason on 07/20/2012 20:28:54
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =

Canada
11523 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2012 :  07:58:03  Show Profile  Visit Cult_Of_Frank's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well, just to clarify, I don't know if the vinyl will be alphabetical (and nope, I've had vinyl bought for me when I was a kid but by the time I was buying my own I was on to cassette tapes). I'm not sure what will happen with the 'extras' but I imagine they would only be in the box set, good point Jose.

The alphabetical with mastering might be more interesting than we're giving it credit for; maybe they can make it seem cohesive in a totally different way from the existing albums that gives a new experience. I'm skeptical but I also know not to count myself smarter than a genius...


"If we hit this bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."
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johnnyribcage
= Cult of Ray =

USA
771 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2012 :  12:25:20  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank

The alphabetical with mastering might be more interesting than we're giving it credit for; maybe they can make it seem cohesive in a totally different way from the existing albums that gives a new experience.


"If we hit this bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."



So I've been working on the deck all day and a couple hours ago I ordered the Catholics albums on itunes alphabetically and let her rip. I'm on Horrible Day. And, <gasp> I'm enjoying it. Of course I'm enjoying it. The reason is I love all these songs.

It is the exact same effect I get when I put all the Catholics on shuffle. Of course I enjoy listening to these songs in any order. That said, it's a different experience, and to me, not as intimate and enjoyable as listening to the albums themselves. Because... No matter what the intent may be, or the "part of a whole" hindsight thing [that George Lucas suffers terminally from], or as much as anyone would like to say they all can go together in any order, the fact remains - The Catholics albums quite obviously follow an arc, an evolution.

An evolution in production, songwriting, dynamics, styles, etc. They started rock, went a little left of center, then wound up alt-country. It's a fascinating arc, in my opinion, and one that is shattered by listening to the songs all jumbled up. Alphabetical is arbitrary. The albums, in order, are not.

All of this is irrelevant (for me) if the vinyls are released as originally presented (plus remastering). If not (and I doubt they will be), I will be disappointed. Many will not. Most people do not have the passion for vinyl that I do, nor the love of individual albums as art (especially nowadays) and I understand that. This is only my two cents.

Onyone got anything to add?



Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl!

Edited by - johnnyribcage on 07/21/2012 12:46:16
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pot
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
2395 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2012 :  13:14:10  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank

I've had vinyl bought for me when I was a kid but by the time I was buying my own I was on to cassette tapes).



You must be slightly younger than me then I'm guessing. I'm 40 It was about 1992/93 ish I remember the great phasing out vinyl era, used to stop in every other day to a local record shop that was selling clearance vinyl from Virgin and Tower Records for a pound a pop. Picked up a few gems, some of which I still have. Still have a nearly as good as new copy of Brothers In Arms by Dire Straits which is worth about 50 now I think. I got it for a pound. Wish I left it in the plastic now.
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johnnyribcage
= Cult of Ray =

USA
771 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2012 :  13:22:30  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pot

quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank

I've had vinyl bought for me when I was a kid but by the time I was buying my own I was on to cassette tapes).


Still have a nearly as good as new copy of Brothers In Arms by Dire Straits which is worth about 50 now I think. I got it for a pound. Wish I left it in the plastic now.



Hate to burst your bubble, but mint Brothers In Arms copies can be had for less than $10. Being a massive Knopfler fan, I can tell you the pricey one these days is All The Roadrunning. Not trying to troll or anything, always nice to meet another vinyl/knopfler fan



Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl!
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pot
* Dog in the Sand *

United Kingdom
2395 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2012 :  13:41:24  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage

Hate to burst your bubble, but mint Brothers In Arms copies can be had for less than $10. Being a massive Knopfler fan, I can tell you the pricey one these days is All The Roadrunning. Not trying to troll or anything, always nice to meet another vinyl/knopfler fan



Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl!



It's ok, I just pulled that off a site. Popsike or something, it has allegedly been sold for up to that amount, several times. I'm sure I could get a fiver for it at my local independent store, any more than that is all down to whether you can find someone who is willing to pay that much. I've got loads of stuff that is 'worth something', the trouble with that though is it's only worth something 'in theory'. first you have to find a buyer, and therein lies the problems. Should I sell it now, or wait another ten years?

Do I really want to sell it? Maybe when I am really old some of my things will bring back happy memories.

Wouldn't say I was a Knopler Fan really, but certainly I was a fan of his music back in the 80s. Sultans of Swing was a great best of album for all the new post Money for Nothing fans to check out their old cataloge, which is even better. I think I liked Telegraph Road for a short while.

Just watching a documentary on him now on BBC Mark Knopfler: A Life In Songs you can get it on BBC iPlayer if you live in Britain, otherwise sure you can probably find a tor for it here= mp3sfornothing.com Oh the irony.
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johnnyribcage
= Cult of Ray =

USA
771 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2012 :  13:49:51  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
@Pot Hah, good stuff man. I live in the states, and it's a dime a dozen (the record, not the music!). Ebay will give you a good idea on it. Like you say, nothing is worth more than what someone is willing to pay for it. Personally, I would never sell any of my records unless I had a few extra copies I felt like parting with. I think there is a lot to what you said about bringing back happy memories. Things like that are the sort of things that people regret parting with years down the road. Maybe my kids or grandkids will get some enjoyment out of them some day. As it stands now, I get daily enjoyment out of them, so 'if the lord's willin' and the creek don't rise', as it were, I'll get enjoyment out of them for a few more decades anyway.

@ Everyone Else - sorry for skewing so violently off topic, we'll take it off line if we want to talk more about it. Cheers



Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl!

Edited by - johnnyribcage on 07/21/2012 13:51:09
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
1758 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2012 :  18:07:12  Show Profile  Visit Jose Jones's Homepage  Reply with Quote
i will buy all catholics albums on vinyl, save SMYT and S/T (which i already own and don't need 2 copies of). i will not buy the boxset. why would i? i own these albums. i won't say i won't illegally download these remastered versions, though. and i don't feel bad about that.

------------------------------
they were the heroes of old, men of renown.
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johnnyribcage
= Cult of Ray =

USA
771 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2012 :  18:37:53  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jose Jones

save SMYT and S/T

------------------------------
they were the heroes of old, men of renown.


What's S/T?



Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl!
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *

1348 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2012 :  21:44:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am absolutely buying the box set, whether CD or vinyl depends on price or whether there's any difference between them (like one has less artwork than the other or something). The alphabetical tracklist is too nutty for me to not support. I love Frank Black when he's eccentric like this.

Ultimately, my main wish for the box set is that it has some really good artwork, maybe some rare photos and such. This set is the tombstone for the band. They deserve a good one.
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oddball
- FB Fan -

Germany
166 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2012 :  03:12:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh man, please don't stay tombstone. That sounds so final. Maybe FB will meet up with Scott and Dave at the Polaris show, break out the portable recording studio and crank out an album containing That Burnt Out Rock and Roll, The Water, and Andro-Queen.

-Oddball
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johnnyribcage
= Cult of Ray =

USA
771 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2012 :  05:31:45  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage

quote:
Originally posted by Jose Jones

save SMYT and S/T

------------------------------
they were the heroes of old, men of renown.


What's S/T?



Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl!



Ah... self titled I guess? Haven't seen that abbreviated yet.



Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl!
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
1758 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2012 :  14:30:04  Show Profile  Visit Jose Jones's Homepage  Reply with Quote
i feel bad for saying (admitting?) i'd illegally download remastered extras. so let me just say this:

i cannot wait to have pistolero, DitS, DW and BLD on vinyl. sooooo excited.

------------------------------
they were the heroes of old, men of renown.
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onyone
- FB Fan -

Yugoslavia
93 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2012 :  15:07:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage

quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank

The alphabetical with mastering might be more interesting than we're giving it credit for; maybe they can make it seem cohesive in a totally different way from the existing albums that gives a new experience.


"If we hit this bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."



So I've been working on the deck all day and a couple hours ago I ordered the Catholics albums on itunes alphabetically and let her rip. I'm on Horrible Day. And, <gasp> I'm enjoying it. Of course I'm enjoying it. The reason is I love all these songs.

It is the exact same effect I get when I put all the Catholics on shuffle. Of course I enjoy listening to these songs in any order. That said, it's a different experience, and to me, not as intimate and enjoyable as listening to the albums themselves. Because... No matter what the intent may be, or the "part of a whole" hindsight thing [that George Lucas suffers terminally from], or as much as anyone would like to say they all can go together in any order, the fact remains - The Catholics albums quite obviously follow an arc, an evolution.

An evolution in production, songwriting, dynamics, styles, etc. They started rock, went a little left of center, then wound up alt-country. It's a fascinating arc, in my opinion, and one that is shattered by listening to the songs all jumbled up. Alphabetical is arbitrary. The albums, in order, are not.

All of this is irrelevant (for me) if the vinyls are released as originally presented (plus remastering). If not (and I doubt they will be), I will be disappointed. Many will not. Most people do not have the passion for vinyl that I do, nor the love of individual albums as art (especially nowadays) and I understand that. This is only my two cents.

Onyone got anything to add?



Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl!



I not understand why call out my name. I don't want fight with you. I sorry I call you retarded man but I already apologize for that. Even though say Honeycomb best album seem like something say try to be a silly man. But you actually not make joke
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *

1348 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2012 :  16:19:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree completely that there's a very coherent and compelling evolution in the Catholics albums. However, I don't think it's necessary for the box set to document that evolution, because we already have a document of The Catholics' evolution: the albums themselves, which are very easy to find on CD.

It'll be interesting to read Frank's explanation for the box set. Hopefully, he writes one of those press release things for it like he's done for most of his albums. The message of the alphabetical box set, in my interpretation: Frank is saying "Re-evaluate us through our songs. Don't bother with this album vs. that album. Just listen to our songs. Here's the whole set, alphabetical order, no fancy sequencing. Let each song stand or fall on its own."

Because that pretty much was Frank's aesthetic back then. There isn't a "dark" Catholics album and a "happy" Catholics and a "political" Catholics album. You could sum up every Catholics album with the same sentence: "More sad songs from Frank Black" (with "with more pedal steel and piano" tacked on for some of the later ones). Each Catholics album basically has the same point: Frank's latest batch of sad songs. (The Catholics' evolution, I think, is mostly in the addition of more players and increasingly elaborate arrangements). And that was intentional. And that's one of the things that I like about them.

And if you DON'T like that, Frank's giving you a choice by reissuing remasters of the original albums, too. Hopefully, they also come out on vinyl. I'll probably buy 'em (the ones I don't already have, at least).

Edited by - Jason on 07/22/2012 16:20:32
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Mac E. Doobage
= Cult of Ray =

492 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2012 :  16:19:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Red Letter Days better be up in here.
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
1758 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2012 :  16:23:31  Show Profile  Visit Jose Jones's Homepage  Reply with Quote
i just. want. pan american highway on vinyl. please for the love of science.

------------------------------
they were the heroes of old, men of renown.
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =

Canada
11523 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2012 :  19:53:41  Show Profile  Visit Cult_Of_Frank's Homepage  Reply with Quote
For those of you out there that are eager for the vinyl, do you really feel there's that much of a difference? I'm not judging, I just can't imagine how there would be but I haven't listened to a record in years much less on a proper table. Real-world anecdotes welcome. I want them just for the art (and maybe as an excuse to have a record player).


"If we hit this bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =

Canada
11523 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2012 :  19:56:45  Show Profile  Visit Cult_Of_Frank's Homepage  Reply with Quote
And yes, top 5 things I'm excited for here (some of which are only in my fantasy world and/or made up):

1) Bonus materials/unreleased gems. We've played some of these on the podcast but that was presumably the tip of the iceberg.
2) A properly mastered SSMVGD if this is included, with artwork. Not that I mind any single thing about the existing web leak.
3) The Red Letter Days tour.
4) Vinyl / large format artwork
5) What I hope will be some well-deserved and way overdue respect for the Catholics.




"If we hit this bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."
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johnnyribcage
= Cult of Ray =

USA
771 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2012 :  02:10:12  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by

I not understand why call out my name.



Easy man, no malice. Your patented brand practically carries meme-like status around here. Keep doin what you do.



Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl!
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
1758 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2012 :  15:18:44  Show Profile  Visit Jose Jones's Homepage  Reply with Quote
brian, i want vinyl cuz that's how i like to listen to music in my house. there's something about a big ol' record, putting it on, flipping it over, that is just awesome. i could literally do naughty things with a frank black record. not so much with mp3s.
i want frank albums to take up even more space in my house.

------------------------------
they were the heroes of old, men of renown.
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johnnyribcage
= Cult of Ray =

USA
771 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2012 :  16:04:10  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yeah, Cult, I do feel vinyl is that much better/different for me anyway, but I'm a little left field when it comes to that stuff. I built my system to specifically be a vinyl machine, and it really pays off with good quality, well produced records. The fidelity smokes cd's I play on the system. When I put a CD of something good on after listening to the record, it's like throwing a blanket over the speakers. The art/size/smell/look/feel thing is all appealing to me as well, but the primary joy I get out of them is the sound. Probably do 80-90% of my listening on vinyl - just my preference.

Of course on the other hand, if the record is beat, poorly pressed, or poorly produced, listening on vinyl only amplifies the problems and in that case, digital is better. Pistolero, the vinyl, does not sound better on the pressing I have. That's why I was so pumped about remastered vinyl. Although, that particular copy of Pistolero was signed huge across the front by Frank using two sharpies, one black, one silver, at the same time, so it's basically autographed twice with the exact same signature about a half inch apart. So in that case - I guess the big album is the draw!



Ayerigvlagabriga-Raraaaargh!-Rumbahl-Jumbahl!
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Chris Knight
= Cult of Ray =

USA
899 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2012 :  17:21:23  Show Profile  Visit Chris Knight's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Man, I guess I was wrong about the alphabetical rumor...how strange.
Vinyl records can't be mastered as loud as CDs, so the vinyl will prob sound a little nicer in the dynamic range. I gave up on vinyl years ago though...just can't afford it.

Edited by - Chris Knight on 07/30/2012 17:22:49
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =

France
777 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2012 :  06:32:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by vilainde

quote:
Originally posted by Chris Knight

It is a bummer about the length



That's what she said. Oh wait...


So if I'm not mistaken, the songs not included on the CD are:

Fiddle Riddle
Steak 'n' Sabre
Calistan
Blast Off
I'll Be Blue
Skeleton Man
All My Ghosts
Some Things
21 Reasons
Every Time I Go Around Here
Fu Manchu
Robert Onion
I've Seen Your Picture
Dog Gone
Headache
Dirty Old Town
Dog In The Sand
If It Takes All Night

Basically all my favorite songs... :(


Denis


Obsidiana Bijoux



Thats right but in the other hand these live versions of I love you brain, Hermaphroditos and even Men in Black are much better than the album versions. I love you brain sounds a bit like an obvious pop grunge song on Pistolero, here the incredible vocals and speed makes it much crazier, almost Husker Du-like... And on The Cult of Ray, Men in Black is sung mainly out of tune (anybody noticed that?) here it is absolutely perfect... Think that maybe the songs that you said are already perfect on the record... Anyway, that live record represent very well what FB is capable of vocally when he's inspired live: he juste re-invent those songs, he change a lot of notes, he basically has some fun.
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
1758 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2012 :  12:44:18  Show Profile  Visit Jose Jones's Homepage  Reply with Quote
i just realized- just put out vinyl editions of Snake Oil and OMRftH. badda-bing badda... you know the rest.



------------------------------
they were the heroes of old, men of renown.
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Niue
7311 Posts

Posted - 09/18/2012 :  23:56:10  Show Profile  Visit vilainde's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm listening to all the Catholics songs ordered alphabetically... it doesn't work at all. I thought the alphabetical box set was a fun idea, now I've changed my mind

[edit] wait... Dog Gone - Dog in the Sand is a great segue


Denis


Obsidiana Bijoux

Edited by - vilainde on 09/19/2012 07:06:24
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Niue
7311 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2012 :  07:24:56  Show Profile  Visit vilainde's Homepage  Reply with Quote
End of Miles / Everything is New / Fields of Marigold... man I'm starting to enjoy this


Denis


Obsidiana Bijoux
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Niue
7311 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2012 :  08:40:58  Show Profile  Visit vilainde's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I Need Peace / I Switched You / I Think I'm Starting To Lose It / I Want Rock 'n' Roll / I Will Run After You... shit is getting good


Denis


Obsidiana Bijoux
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =

Canada
11523 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2012 :  15:17:11  Show Profile  Visit Cult_Of_Frank's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Love the play by play... I think I will join this experiment.


"If we hit this bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."
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1965
= Cult of Ray =

Australia
799 Posts

Posted - 03/09/2013 :  18:45:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
BLACK GOLD



Courtesy of M Lemhouse via fb.


I have the key to #902
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *

Canada
1530 Posts

Posted - 03/09/2013 :  18:57:34  Show Profile  Visit hammerhands's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ooops, have to change my pants.
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Mac E. Doobage
= Cult of Ray =

492 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2013 :  13:34:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Alphabetical indeed.
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =

Canada
11523 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2013 :  18:37:46  Show Profile  Visit Cult_Of_Frank's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sc? Sceleton man? :P


"If we hit this bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."
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