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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
 Posted - 02/19/2010 : 08:56:51
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I know he's still going by the name Black Francis, but The Golem sounds so much to me like Frank Black music. And I'm glad for it. It's like an old friend is back from a years-long bender.
I liked Bluefinger -- as a friend says, it's a punk masterpiece. But Svn Fngrs, at least for me, represented an artist who had completely lost his way. When I listen to it, the music sounds to me as forced as the reincarnation of the Black Francis persona itself.
But now, reading all these comments in the Der Golem thread -- http://forum.frankblack.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19482 -- referencing several different Catholics albums, I wonder if I'm not the only one who feels like he's returned to an earlier time. God bless him for it.
 Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2010 : 09:21:53
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| Wasn't it written and recorded a couple of years ago, before SVN FNGRS and NSE? |
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markos
- FB Fan -
55 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2010 : 16:36:55
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| Yeah the Svn Fngrs stuff does not hold up very well, not that its bad but it certainly feels fairly uninspired. The Golem is quite simply brilliant though. In a time where good new music is apparently completely non-existent, its tragic this isn't getting massive praise from the media. Tragic but unsurprising i guess. |
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2813 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2010 : 17:11:18
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I'm not gonna knock it, I just don't understand why Polly's Into Me & Serious Curious didn't make it onto it.
they are great tunes and I still can't get Polly onto my computer
I love that song |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1068 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2010 : 21:10:49
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I personally feel Bluefinger and Svn Fngrs get a really bad rap around here, while the catholics are slightly overrated. I'd take those two albums over CoR, FB&TC, Pistolero, and Devils Workshop anyday. Bluefinger is in my top 3 and Svn Fngrs in my top 5.
I don't know if i would say the golem is a return to frank, so much as a mixing of frank and francis. I say that because its kind of like the rootsy style of songwriting as frank, with the more artsy/alternative spirit of francis |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7446 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2010 : 22:05:09
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You're all mad as fuck. Svn Fngrs is awesome. It's the best thing Frank had released since SMYT.
Denis
"Can you hear me? I aint got shit to say." |
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Don Eduardo
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
403 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2010 : 23:06:02
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| I'm with Vilainde. Except Bluefinger shades SvnFngrs....just. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 00:18:55
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| Agree with above three posters. I think the AOR FB sound, although he has done a hell of a lot of great songs, is slightly boring. As for FB&C being overrated? I think they were probably at their best when playing live which is why I think all their albums were released with minimal production and recorded on a 2 track. Sadly I don't think the energy they have live came across as well on the albums. I really like Frank when he is on the acoustic, doing the Nashville thing, but I'm not so keen on the sound on the FB&C albums specifically this twangy country guitar sound, and the wind instrument sound he uses a lot in The Golem. I'm all for a bit of country music, I love bluegrass especially, but I think the Catholics should have gone more for the hammond organ on their albums. I think The Golem is being perceived as wey better than it actually is, and people are just excited about it because it is new. I was blown away by Bluefinger when it came out, but looking back I'd say there are only three tracks from it that I play now. Half of it is filler. SVN FNGRS OTOH is a pretty complete album, although had it not been a mini album may well have ended up being a bit fillery as well, like most of his records are. You can't complain though, he just punts out what he writes, most artists tend to filter out the weaker stuff. |
Edited by - pot on 02/20/2010 00:19:58 |
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fumanbru
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1462 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 03:52:48
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MADNESS! 7vn fingers is unreal!! tale of the lonesome fetter, when they come to murder me, i sent away.....all that demi god greatness! the questions is, "is coastline back?!"
god bless
 "I joined the Cult of Frank/ cause I'm a real go-getter!"...long live snitz!! |
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markos
- FB Fan -
55 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 04:03:32
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quote:
I think The Golem is being perceived as wey better than it actually is, and people are just excited about it because it is new.
Why was i not excited at all by Grand Duchy and Svn Fngrs then when they originally came out? And do people seriously rate Svn Fngrs as better than Bluefinger? Fetter and Wtctmm are good and the rest is fine but after about 5 listens i was near done with it.
Golem is well into my 15th-20th listen and is still surprising and exciting to me. The production, songwriting and craftsmanship are well above recent offerings from FB. Sure, people may be gushing about it but why the fuck not? I have not felt this passionate about an album for years. And i think any fans who had begun to lose interest in Frank's work will be drawn right back through The Golem and hopefully NSE. |
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velvety
= Cult of Ray =
Portugal
536 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 05:14:54
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Never understood the love for Svn Fngrs. Even the songs that are kind of interesting (Garbage Heap, Seven Fingers) sound rushed and unfinished. Garbage Heap for example, you just have to listen to the end of that song to see that it's half-baked. The other songs, apart from 'I sent away', sound fully formed, but are as boring as the worst moments of the Catholics. C to the D to the G to the Em. Frank does these songs in his sleep.
And SMYT is pretty crappy too. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 07:03:46
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quote:
Originally posted by markos
quote:
I think The Golem is being perceived as wey better than it actually is, and people are just excited about it because it is new.
Why was i not excited at all by Grand Duchy and Svn Fngrs then when they originally came out? And do people seriously rate Svn Fngrs as better than Bluefinger? Fetter and Wtctmm are good and the rest is fine but after about 5 listens i was near done with it.
Golem is well into my 15th-20th listen and is still surprising and exciting to me. The production, songwriting and craftsmanship are well above recent offerings from FB. Sure, people may be gushing about it but why the fuck not? I have not felt this passionate about an album for years. And i think any fans who had begun to lose interest in Frank's work will be drawn right back through The Golem and hopefully NSE.
Because you're a fan of Frank Black's stuff more than Black Francis'...?
If you love this album to bits I'm pleased for you, it just doesn't do much for me.
I really don't get this idea that svn fngrs is half baked. I tihnk the production on it is really good, and the songs don't sound rushed. I think he put a lot of thought into it's construction. |
Edited by - pot on 02/20/2010 07:06:16 |
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markos
- FB Fan -
55 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 07:21:21
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quote:
Because you're a fan of Frank Black's stuff more than Black Francis'...?
Well its all the same guy, and i don't read too much into the name change to be honest. |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1068 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 08:14:36
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
I really don't get this idea that svn fngrs is half baked. I tihnk the production on it is really good, and the songs don't sound rushed. I think he put a lot of thought into it's construction.
I agree. It has the most loving production since dog in the sand (though the golem has surpassed it IMO) and, even though it's a mini album, i feel all the songs are strong and consistent. It's one of my most listened frank black albums. When I think half baked i think Devils Workshop or Cult of Ray or Pistolero
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 09:27:04
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quote:
Originally posted by markos
quote:
Because you're a fan of Frank Black's stuff more than Black Francis'...?
Well its all the same guy, and i don't read too much into the name change to be honest.
The change back to BF was accompanied by a return to the old indie punk style of his album pre-Catholics and onwards. But you are right, it is not so Black and white.
I was actually really disappointed when he dropped the name Black Francis when he went solo, I thought it was a really cool name but Frank Black just sounded boring. |
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Apesy
= Cult of Ray =
USA
411 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 18:01:27
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my problem with frank since reverting to francis has nothing to do with the melodies, which have been fine. it's the lyrics: half-baked, forced sex and tough guy stuff. i can't hear, "mary had a little lamb, the shit was pure as snow," without cringing very, very hard. granted this is the same man who once sang, "losing my penis to a whore with disease," and, "oh kiss me cunt," but...i can't explain it. it was more organic to the material then i suppose. now it's so jarring it can just take me right out of a song
-=Apesy |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2010 : 18:51:30
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| Admittedly I have been getting into the habit of skipping Half Man lately... |
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eroticvultcha
- FB Fan -
Ireland
81 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 09:21:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Apesy
my problem with frank since reverting to francis has nothing to do with the melodies, which have been fine. it's the lyrics: half-baked, forced sex and tough guy stuff. i can't hear, "mary had a little lamb, the shit was pure as snow," without cringing very, very hard. granted this is the same man who once sang, "losing my penis to a whore with disease," and, "oh kiss me cunt," but...i can't explain it. it was more organic to the material then i suppose. now it's so jarring it can just take me right out of a song
-=Apesy
The lyrics never bothered me. It's the production - straightforward, lacking reverb and, mostly, lacking lead guitar. I always wonder how Bluefinger or Svn Fngrs could sound if Joey participated in the recording sessions.
Also, there's a good ~20 years between the new and old incarnations of Black Francis. His voice had a character to it that is near impossible to replicate as a man in his 40s. Don't get me wrong - Frank if anything has improved as a singer, but his voice has matured.
There are so many exceptional songs that have been released since the reversion... and, hell, the man can call himself whatever he wants to - but Frank Black often seems to fit better with the new material than Black Francis. |
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gary13th
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
632 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 13:12:32
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This is my own honest opinion, which of course everyone thinks differently to each other and may not agree with.
I agree with numerous posts above, relating to the last few albums, lyrical content, lacking lead guitar. Whether you look at the higher production albums (FB, Teenager) or the lesser (FB&TC, DW) - I enjoyed the music --- the melding of the instruments, vocals and melody --- and the lyrics. At the moment i feel lesser connected to the lyrics, and the music. I for one am also glad he dropped playing some of his older stuff with the band live, as lovely songs like California Bound or Manitoba didnt sit with the new style, where with the catholics he played songs like Gouge Away and Monkey, and put a unique spin on his old songs in the new style.
Grand Duchy has been a bit better, taking as lesser FB/BF, but I'm sadly disappointed.
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I joined the Cult of the Catholics, Oh when will they return ? |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2010 : 14:19:29
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quote:
Originally posted by eroticvultcha
Also, there's a good ~20 years between the new and old incarnations of Black Francis. His voice had a character to it that is near impossible to replicate as a man in his 40s. Don't get me wrong - Frank if anything has improved as a singer, but his voice has matured.
There are so many exceptional songs that have been released since the reversion... and, hell, the man can call himself whatever he wants to - but Frank Black often seems to fit better with the new material than Black Francis.
That's an interesting point and something I have also noticed. His voice has changed, which is of course to be expected. I'm not so sure the old BF screams and wails come across as well on record as they did in his hey day, but certainly live they do! I was privelaged to see him on the Bluefinger tour with Skippy, Ding and Charles Normal and his voice sounded really powerful, I'm surprised he didn't bust a blood vessel. Understandably his voice does sound rougher as a result of 20 years of screaming, and this probably does lend itself more to an FB style a la Christmass album and FMRM. |
Edited by - pot on 02/21/2010 14:20:26 |
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joe FITZ of molly BANG
= Cult of Ray =
USA
349 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 11:28:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Apesy
my problem with frank since reverting to francis has nothing to do with the melodies, which have been fine. it's the lyrics: half-baked, forced sex and tough guy stuff. i can't hear, "mary had a little lamb, the shit was pure as snow," without cringing very, very hard. granted this is the same man who once sang, "losing my penis to a whore with disease," and, "oh kiss me cunt," but...i can't explain it. it was more organic to the material then i suppose. now it's so jarring it can just take me right out of a song
-=Apesy
i do sometimes not like the shit was pure as snow part. i don't think it's tough guy tho. |
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joe FITZ of molly BANG
= Cult of Ray =
USA
349 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 11:30:52
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
quote:
Originally posted by eroticvultcha
Also, there's a good ~20 years between the new and old incarnations of Black Francis. His voice had a character to it that is near impossible to replicate as a man in his 40s. Don't get me wrong - Frank if anything has improved as a singer, but his voice has matured.
There are so many exceptional songs that have been released since the reversion... and, hell, the man can call himself whatever he wants to - but Frank Black often seems to fit better with the new material than Black Francis.
before i saw the pixies at coachella i was skeptical that he could still yell, but he is just as great in my opinion. the best yeller ever!
That's an interesting point and something I have also noticed. His voice has changed, which is of course to be expected. I'm not so sure the old BF screams and wails come across as well on record as they did in his hey day, but certainly live they do! I was privelaged to see him on the Bluefinger tour with Skippy, Ding and Charles Normal and his voice sounded really powerful, I'm surprised he didn't bust a blood vessel. Understandably his voice does sound rougher as a result of 20 years of screaming, and this probably does lend itself more to an FB style a la Christmass album and FMRM.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6289 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 11:51:55
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I sometimes think that Frank lossed his focus since touring with the Pixies. I still love the records and maybe I'm looking way too much into it, but the Catholics toured a lot and recorded a lot. Now he records less and tours a lot with a band that doesn't record. The creative part and the hard work aren't connected.
How much better could SVN FNGRS have been? The production on that record is so fresh, he's breaking new ground (the seus), but still...it has a filler vibe, too rushed. I dare to say that without a Pixies reunion that could have been a great fulllength record.
Der Golem is good, but it's not mindblowing. I'm still in awe of his ability to come up with great lyrics and songs, but his legacy is pushing 20+ records. Every record has more records that I love to fight and that fight is getting harder and harder (IN MY MIND!) I wonder what NSE brings.
Yet, Bluefinger is a masterpiece. One of his best.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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velvety
= Cult of Ray =
Portugal
536 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 14:47:13
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I don't know if he lost focus since touring with the Pixies. Maybe it has something to do with him now having 13 kids running around the house?
I've kind of let go of the idea of Frank creating a masterpiece since DITS. That record could have been perfect, just as Bluefinger or Black Letter Days or even Fast Man/Raider Man could have been perfect. He doesn't seem worried about creating a stellar album anymore, and seems more interested in creating the individual songs. Which is fine, since FB and TOTY didn't get the recognition they deserved. Still, I would love if Frank spent two or three years working on an album, instead of recording albums with songs he came up the night before. |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1068 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 16:02:06
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| Maybe we can switch two or three years to two or three months, haha |
Edited by - Brank_Flack on 02/25/2010 16:03:26 |
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oddball
- FB Fan -
Germany
243 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 16:09:41
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I'm not sure what people mean by perfection. The relatively quick turnaround captures his talent and gift for song writing in my opinion. Take a songs like Humboldt County Massacre or Sunday Sunny Mill Valley Groove Day, for instance. The first versions stand out as a result of their rawness and spontaneity. Certainly others will disagree, but the follow-up versions of both songs, in my opinion, lost some of their edginess as a result of "waiting". Just my two cents.
-Oddball |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1068 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 16:15:19
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| Also, I think there's a myth that frank has only started to write and record quickly in the last few years. It seems like its something he's done throughout his career, even back in the days of writing pixies songs for bossanova and trompe le monde in the studio. |
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oddball
- FB Fan -
Germany
243 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 16:22:22
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Very true. It's also interesting to note that the shortest of his most recent releases, Svnfngrs, seems to be the one receiving the most criticism.
-Oddball |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6289 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 21:20:06
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quote:
Originally posted by oddball
I'm not sure what people mean by perfection. The relatively quick turnaround captures his talent and gift for song writing in my opinion. Take a songs like Humboldt County Massacre or Sunday Sunny Mill Valley Groove Day, for instance. The first versions stand out as a result of their rawness and spontaneity. Certainly others will disagree, but the follow-up versions of both songs, in my opinion, lost some of their edginess as a result of "waiting". Just my two cents.
-Oddball
I agree completely.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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eroticvultcha
- FB Fan -
Ireland
81 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 01:36:34
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quote:
Originally posted by oddball
I'm not sure what people mean by perfection. The relatively quick turnaround captures his talent and gift for song writing in my opinion. Take a songs like Humboldt County Massacre or Sunday Sunny Mill Valley Groove Day, for instance. The first versions stand out as a result of their rawness and spontaneity. Certainly others will disagree, but the follow-up versions of both songs, in my opinion, lost some of their edginess as a result of "waiting". Just my two cents.
-Oddball
Very true. I think the SSMVGD version of 'I Will Run After You' is actually a lot better than the BLD one, for instance. Not sure whether many people would agree, though. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6289 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 01:50:06
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I agree.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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fumanbru
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1462 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2010 : 02:54:39
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i think what I like most is the change factor and unpredictability of the next project..you can grow with the artist. i like acdc but it does get somewhat redundant. some stuff I don’t like at first but maybe after a while it may grow on me.ie honeycomb, the new non stop erotic song. it's somewhat surprising that I am listening to the same artist after 20 years of regular continual listening…that says a lot about an artist and their catalog…
"I joined the Cult of Frank/ cause I'm a real go-getter!"...long live snitz!! |
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joe FITZ of molly BANG
= Cult of Ray =
USA
349 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 05:19:40
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
I sometimes think that Frank lossed his focus since touring with the Pixies. I still love the records and maybe I'm looking way too much into it, but the Catholics toured a lot and recorded a lot. Now he records less and tours a lot with a band that doesn't record. The creative part and the hard work aren't connected.
How much better could SVN FNGRS have been? The production on that record is so fresh, he's breaking new ground (the seus), but still...it has a filler vibe, too rushed. I dare to say that without a Pixies reunion that could have been a great fulllength record.
Der Golem is good, but it's not mindblowing. I'm still in awe of his ability to come up with great lyrics and songs, but his legacy is pushing 20+ records. Every record has more records that I love to fight and that fight is getting harder and harder (IN MY MIND!) I wonder what NSE brings.
Yet, Bluefinger is a masterpiece. One of his best.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
I wouldn't say he's lost his focus. he is a genius and even his worst albums are better than most. I think he did lose a little passion during the nashville sessions, but there are still great songs in there.
in my opinion it would have been much better with just him acoustic, but how awesome is it that he played with all of those awesome musicians?
for a person his age, who has already made so many good albums, he still is doing great. and that's why he's my favorite. the pixies catologue alone is enough to make him my fave, but he's still making kick ass albums like bluefinger.
yes not as consistently awesome as his earlier, but he's still trying new things and he's still obviously got talent. |
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langdonboom
= Cult of Ray =
USA
260 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 14:22:13
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| I love SVN FNGRS, my favorite since Dog in the Sand, probably - except for Der Golem now! Such a different vibe, but one I love there. Still, I can listen to SVN FNGRS anytime still - that ones a tossed-off masterpiece in my opinion! I liked Bluefinger too, but not as much. |
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gotmeamovie
- FB Fan -
158 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 12:00:28
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He will never topple frank black.teenager of the year period
in all regards
live performances, songs, attitude, interviews, feeling
love it all
"I could take a walk and really wonder, really wonder" |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 18:26:09
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quote:
Originally posted by velvety
And SMYT is pretty crappy too.
Holy shit. Peace, I'm out.
I'll mash your perfect parts. |
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Topic |
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Is Frank back?
