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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
 Posted - 08/05/2009 : 16:07:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Jose Jones
it would include mandatory vaccinations for children. that alienates an otherwise fairly liberal population.
That makes sense, right? If you don't vaccinate, you risk making others sick, which, in turn, costs money.
I remember sitting in a basement listening to Fields of Marigold until I passed out.
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2009 : 18:03:44
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How many mandatory vaccinations from the Government will it take to quell your fears?
Where does it end?
There must be a choice. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 09:28:46
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I don't have fears. I have a desire to avoid measles, mumps, etc.
And there can't be too much of a choice, given how diseases spread.
I remember sitting in a basement listening to Fields of Marigold until I passed out.
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2463 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 11:42:52
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It's a peculiar thing how some people are obsessed with the idea that Government = wrong, and that the private sector is the best choice for the 'customer'.
The NHS is real asset to the UK. The real danger is the way key services are being privatised (cleaning, for example... directly related to the outbreaks of MRSA, since none of the staff are accountable to the NHS itself).
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 23:52:28
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
I don't have fears. I have a desire to avoid measles, mumps, etc.
And there can't be too much of a choice, given how diseases spread.
I remember sitting in a basement listening to Fields of Marigold until I passed out.
Couldn't help but pick up on a Hitchens dialectic:
I don't have fears. I have a desire to avoid being dictated to by religious types
And there can't be too much of a choice, given how religion operates.
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 05:38:32
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I agree, tro.
I remember sitting in a basement listening to Fields of Marigold until I passed out.
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Crackitybones
- FB Fan -
Guadeloupe
65 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 07:07:21
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
quote:
Originally posted by Jose Jones
it would include mandatory vaccinations for children. that alienates an otherwise fairly liberal population.
That makes sense, right? If you don't vaccinate, you risk making others sick, which, in turn, costs money.
I remember sitting in a basement listening to Fields of Marigold until I passed out.
This is the eternal problem with vaccination - the individual, libertarian argument is that one should have the choice whether to vaccinate or not. The utilitarian social argument is that vaccination will only be truly effective, i.e will control or ideally eradicate a disease, if you vaccinate the majority of the population. Witness the MMR scare in the UK, where (subsequently disproven) research linking the vaccine with the development of autism and Crohn's disease led to a significant fall in vaccination uptake and outbreaks of measles, which can kill.
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 07:29:48
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Well put, crackity.
If I may be so crass (not to mention lacking any and all medical training), some people I know insist that it was the (I think mercury? in the) MMR shot that "made" their child autistic. But a couple of years before the boy was diagnosed a couple of us noticed that he was a bit "off" -- we weren't surprised at the heartbreaking diagnosis, though his parents still insist that nothing had been amiss until the shots. Very sad and touchy subject...
I remember sitting in a basement listening to Fields of Marigold until I passed out.
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 08:00:29
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
I agree, tro.
I remember sitting in a basement listening to Fields of Marigold until I passed out.
Consider our thread a Hitchens vaccine trial.
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 08:04:54
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I remember sitting in a basement listening to Fields of Marigold until I passed out.
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 14:39:35
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Well, I am very much in support of universal coverage but maintaining employer based health care. I believe that people with pre existing conditions should be covered but at the same time there needs to be an individual mandate.
I have been doing some research and I don't think any of the proposed legislation really gets at the root causes of health care costs which are obesity, chronic conditions and poor management of end of life care. No one wants to go there because I think it's too politically charged.
What I have seen is proposals that throw lot of dollars out or shift things around, but don't really get at sustainable solutions that solve for the problems listed above.
It scares me that politicians that know very little about the health system are going to be putting on all these requirements that they really don't know what effect it will have. It makes me wonder if we might end up getting a more expensive system than what we already have.
What also scares me is that the US has developed a lot of the health care innovations for the world and if the government takes over, we're more likely to loose those innovations because there won't be the resources or the incentives to fund such innovations we most desperately need.
What is being proposed is also going to lead to government guidelines similar to NICE in the UK that in the end are really the best care for you, but I just don't see the average American taking it well when they are told the can't have that CAT scan or redundant or unnecessary lab tests that they erroneously equate with a higher quality of care.
It's also going to further strain the already limited supply of providers.
I think the idea of reform is good, but I don't think that what I have seen will really solve anything and we will be having the same debate 5 years from now. |
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Healthcare
