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1965
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
799 Posts |
 Posted - 05/02/2007 : 07:57:35
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A friend of mine (who I introduced FB & PIXIES music to years ago) said recently "FB's music is great, but I find his lyrics annoying..."
This is not my view, as I think FB is one of the greatest lyricists going around, whether in abstract mode or narrative. But it got me thinking, is there any weight to this argument..
I always assumed people who didn't get into PIXIES or FB just found the music too abrasive or not to their liking, but never thought about the lyrics or song's themes as being a key turn off.
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 08:06:18
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I find that with some (read: with bad taste) people, when introduced to lyrics that are, shall we say, less than straightforward (or include multi-syllabic words) will say that the lyrics bother them or they don't like them. Yet when you question the lyrics to songs they do like (with bland, banal, boring or downright stupid lyrics), they often say that lyrics don't matter to them, they just like the music. What they mean to say is, things that are complex make their brains hurt. Which is why Deal or No Deal is so popular.
maybe I'll kick it
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 08:49:16
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I think I like his lyrics because until I came across Frank and his Pixies, I really hated lyrics. Was always pretty much a music-only guy. So his speak to me. But I can see why others find them annoying...they are more forms than form.
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His name is Dalton. He's got a degree in philosophy.
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cptnpasty
- FB Fan -
Spain
161 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 08:53:52
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quote:
Originally posted by speedy_m
I find that with some (read: with bad taste) people, when introduced to lyrics that are, shall we say, less than straightforward (or include multi-syllabic words) will say that the lyrics bother them or they don't like them. Yet when you question the lyrics to songs they do like (with bland, banal, boring or downright stupid lyrics), they often say that lyrics don't matter to them, they just like the music. What they mean to say is, things that are complex make their brains hurt. Which is why Deal or No Deal is so popular.
maybe I'll kick it
post of the week, it has to be.
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 09:56:58
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Maybe they prefer lyrics like "he's got a brand new car, looks like a Jaguar"? I can see how some people might think the lyrics are too clever for their own good I suppose, but that's one of the things I like about Frank! The amount of things I've looked up, read up on or got into thanks to something he's sung about or a passing mention in a song...
You don't get that with many bands I wouldn't have thought! As fans it almost gives us a bit of a smugness, maybe that's why some people are put off, by our smugness and understanding of the songs?
On the other hand I can't stand Manic Street Preachers or Morrissey and their 'intelligent' lyrics, always seems like they're trying to force an opinion or view down your throat about politics or something.
http://www.myspace.com/monkeyhelperband http://www.myspace.com/imnimrodsson |
Edited by - bumblebeeboy2 on 05/02/2007 09:58:48 |
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2Strings
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 09:57:28
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| Nope, 'comfortable' lyrics are fine if that's what floats your boat, but when you want to do more than just service the melody with your voice, you're going to step outside the traditonal sooner or later. It's easy to not offend anyone when you're saying nothing at all. |
Edited by - 2Strings on 05/02/2007 09:59:12 |
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Nick
- FB Fan -
Canada
10 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 10:10:35
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When I was in high school, I was a huge Bob Dylan fan. I loved his lyrics and was always trying to figure out their meaning. It was often infuriating trying to get to the bottom of a particular song.
In university, I was introduced to the Pixies, and it was not only a breath of fresh air, it was like a whole new way of appreciating music opened up to me.
Instead of worrying about what a song "meant" the sound of the music and the words together became the thing. Here I was listening to this terrifying vocalist (just from hearing him, I was convinced Black Francis had to be half-crazy) and these words that had no discernible meaning to me washed over me but entered my subconscious.
I heard screaming and made out the odd very strange phrase. I didn't understand what the words meant, but they felt and sounded RIGHT.
Songs like Isla de Encanta had such great riffs and great screaming, that it didn't matter that I don't speak a word of Spanish. It just sounded so COOL.
Since then, I've always approached music this way first when listening to it. Does it feel right? Does it sound cool? Those first two requirements have to be met before caring about any actual lyrics.
It's been a long time since I first started listening to the Pixies, and (in some ways unfortunately) I've learnt more about the meanings to particular songs. I don't think my appreciation for these songs has been deepened by learning any meaning behind songs. I think they would work equally well if the lyrics were complete nonsense but sounded right in the context of the songs.
Needless to say, this is all IMHO and all that. |
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awestruck
= Cult of Ray =
USA
377 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 14:27:51
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quote:
Originally posted by speedy_m
I find that with some (read: with bad taste) people, when introduced to lyrics that are, shall we say, less than straightforward (or include multi-syllabic words) will say that the lyrics bother them or they don't like them. Yet when you question the lyrics to songs they do like (with bland, banal, boring or downright stupid lyrics), they often say that lyrics don't matter to them, they just like the music. What they mean to say is, things that are complex make their brains hurt. Which is why Deal or No Deal is so popular.
maybe I'll kick it
I completely agree. Frank's lyrics make you think. Some people want their music just like everything else...handed to them without having to put forth any effort whatsoever.
Favorite Quote: awestruck is a she, she's a she. -trobrianders |
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 14:41:32
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Lyrics to me stand out only when they're particularly awful, which is unfortunately more often than not. You have some bands that can play instruments, but don't really have anything to sing about, so they just make up some crap so they can have lyrics on their songs. Analyzing the lyrics always comes last for me. I've enjoyed a song for years not knowing a thing about what the lyrics meant.
I think most of Frank's lyrics are brilliant, and also a snapshot of what he's thinking about as a person at the time, which is nice for those of us that have been there from the beginning.
But I can see how people could see them as annoying (the first time I heard Speedy Marie, I thought the breakdown - "juxtaposed..." part was kind of over the top - I mean who uses "juxtaposed" in a song? but now I like it).
== jeffamerica == |
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 14:45:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Nick
It's been a long time since I first started listening to the Pixies, and (in some ways unfortunately) I've learnt more about the meanings to particular songs. I don't think my appreciation for these songs has been deepened by learning any meaning behind songs. I think they would work equally well if the lyrics were complete nonsense but sounded right in the context of the songs.
I totally agree, except I found it fascinating to find out what the Doolittle songs were about. It didn't ruin, change, or deepen my feeling about the songs. Even though I know what they mean now, I listen to them the same way, mostly as a musical/visceral experience.
I guess I'm saying the same thing as you. Knowing what the songs meant didn't change them for me.
Bluefinger on the other hand...knowing what the songs mean makes all the difference!
== jeffamerica == |
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smyckers
- FB Fan -
Zimbabwe
4 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 15:43:30
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On first listen I definitely understand some people thinking the lyrics are annoying.
"And give me your coat
Then we'll fall in love in my boat"
Lyrically (at first listen) quite like
"I don't wanna see a ghost
It's the sight that I fear most
I'd rather have a piece of toast"
Des'ree |
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scruvs
= Cult of Ray =
353 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 15:52:53
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I can understand this argument. At first, listen some of Frank's lyrics sound dumb to me. Sometimes it's just the way he'll pronounce certain words, sometimes I don't think the timing of the lyrics is predictable and can make songs hard to listen to.
Even some of my favorite FB lyrics are pretty dumb if you take them out of context.
When someone listens to something for the first time, often things feel out of context.
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Boy, you sure can holler. |
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smyckers
- FB Fan -
Zimbabwe
4 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 16:04:53
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I'm with you on the context.
The trouble with the lyrics is also the joy. With a lot of bands you listen first time and you know exactly how you feel. With a song like selkie bride you get exactly what you put into it. I guess it's a different way of absorbing music, and a lot of people will fall on both sides of the fence - some songs you wnat to hear in (say) a club, other songs you want to listen to and appreciate. A fair few songs, more particularly on the solo stuff, I think need to be appreciated.
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Czar
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
321 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 19:52:40
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quote:
But I can see how people could see them as annoying (the first time I heard Speedy Marie, I thought the breakdown - "juxtaposed..." part was kind of over the top - I mean who uses "juxtaposed" in a song? but now I like it).
Oh man, words like "juxtaposed", "protohuman" and "egress" in a rock song are precisely what turned me into a diehard fan. |
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2007 : 22:26:40
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these words that had no discernible meaning to me washed over me but entered my subconscious.
Like Bob Pollard for me. "Parallel lines on a slow decline" may not mean anything, but it sounds cool.
Anyway, I have no idea what "Fiddle Riddle" is about. Gobbling up a man? I could understand not appreciating FB's lyrics if you don't condone cannibalism. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2007 : 10:47:57
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| I remember a little review of TOTY in a guitar magazine, where the critic felt Frank's wordplay got tiresome about half way through! |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2007 : 15:22:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Jefrey
<snip>
But I can see how people could see them as annoying (the first time I heard Speedy Marie, I thought the breakdown - "juxtaposed..." part was kind of over the top - I mean who uses "juxtaposed" in a song? but now I like it).
== jeffamerica ==
Super Furry Animals! Juxtaposed With U. My mate was so annoyed when that came out he told me it was ridiculous how bands now just make up words to fit in songs... I had to explain it's a real word. :)
http://www.myspace.com/monkeyhelperband http://www.myspace.com/imnimrodsson |
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50 Pence
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
284 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2007 : 17:00:48
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Your mate needs to read more!
"Tonight should be a free-fire ideas zone, watch a DVD, eat some pizza, fuck each other. I'm serious; fuck a chicken if that's what it takes. Watch a chicken fuck a horse." The legendary Alan Johnson |
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awestruck
= Cult of Ray =
USA
377 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2007 : 22:20:16
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Lets just face it... if anyone thinks Frank's lyrics are annoying then they are lyrically challenged.
Whether the lyrics make sense or not, Frank makes them work. He is just gifted that way.
Favorite Quote: awestruck is a she, she's a she. -trobrianders |
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 13:37:35
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I especially like Frank Black's nonsense.
Like White Noise Maker for example.
But each time I say that somebody comes and say something like :
"No no no no no, White Noise Maker is about an egyptian guru that Frank met in Germany and everything in the lyrics is true".
I wish there was NO EXPLAINATION to ANY FRANK BLACK SONG. |
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 14:22:34
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In the Pixies profile 'Gouge'(on their first DVD), Charles, when asked about his lyrics, said that when he started writing songs they had a lot of words in them and that meant they weren't very good ('unless you're Elvis Costello or something'). So Pixies was I guess a kind of reaction to that, being minimal and obscure or 'dadaist' as he put it. Now some of his songs have high word count again like St Francis Dam. I don't care cos they're all incredible. I'm totally at home with his vernacular. He's just an effortlessly cool and brilliant writer so if you're into that, you're gonna love it.
It can be hard I suppose getting into something if you can't make out the references cos you just haven't lived. That's too bad.
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
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houstonguthrie
- FB Fan -
187 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 18:31:05
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my buddy (WWGT) says - and I agree - they are Shakespearean
everything is boiled down to its essence
didn't Bowie have a good quote about it? - something like "Charles illuminates the essense....." or something. maybe somebody can fill that in
that's how they strike me - I always hear something new even in the simplest lines
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Zsolt G.
- FB Fan -
117 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2007 : 20:07:38
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| Nobody has mentioned how Frank's lyrics have been vastly different on his adult contemporary shit lately. I don't think he has a knack for a simple rhyme like, "I found my thrill, on blueberry hill" But I think he's good with the clever cryptic stuff like "I'm a pure denizen of the citizens band". Bluefinger seems more of a return to form to me. |
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2007 : 02:12:52
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quote:
Originally posted by houstonguthrie
my buddy (WWGT) says - and I agree - they are Shakespearean
everything is boiled down to its essence
didn't Bowie have a good quote about it? - something like "Charles illuminates the essense....." or something. maybe somebody can fill that in
Yeah he said Charles see the affinities of things and has those affinities illuminate the subject of his songs. 'This human form where I was born I now repent'. Shakespeare would've kept it in.
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 07:19:46
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| Yeah, that is kinda Shakespearian sounding!! |
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mr.biscuitdoughhead
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1729 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 08:11:11
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Anyone who thinks FB's lyrics are weird should listen to Neutral Milk Hotel.
"Pianos filled with flames"?
Still hooked on cellophane... |
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 10:22:09
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quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders
In the Pixies profile 'Gouge'(on their first DVD), Charles, when asked about his lyrics, said that when he started writing songs they had a lot of words in them and that meant they weren't very good ('unless you're Elvis Costello or something'). So Pixies was I guess a kind of reaction to that, being minimal and obscure or 'dadaist' as he put it. Now some of his songs have high word count again like St Francis Dam. I don't care cos they're all incredible. I'm totally at home with his vernacular. He's just an effortlessly cool and brilliant writer so if you're into that, you're gonna love it.
It can be hard I suppose getting into something if you can't make out the references cos you just haven't lived. That's too bad.
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Ed is the hoo hoo
Does anybody knows what he did before the pixies? Is there anything to listen?
The closest to that could be the "FRANK BLACK FRANCIS" accoustic demo version of "here comes your man". It has a smell of classic amercian pop folk. It's like blondie before blondie, Debbie used to be a folk girl.
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 11:50:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Grotesque
Does anybody knows what he did before the pixies? Is there anything to listen?
The closest to that could be the "FRANK BLACK FRANCIS" accoustic demo version of "here comes your man". It has a smell of classic amercian pop folk. It's like blondie before blondie, Debbie used to be a folk girl.
There are some 'college demos' that are quite easy to find, might be on the FB.net FTP site if it's still active? They're Keeping in Time, Silhouette, Draw Attention and I can't remember the 4th.
http://www.myspace.com/monkeyhelperband http://www.myspace.com/imnimrodsson |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 11:56:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Grotesque
I wish there was NO EXPLAINATION to ANY FRANK BLACK SONG.
i think there's no ONE explaination to any Frank Black song, if that makes you feel better.
jamming good with Weird and Gilly |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 14:49:26
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those demos were actually pretty cool.
this hair cost 80 dollars
you can't turn down my up turned collars
or something.
"I'm an editor of a major publication" - coastline |
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2007 : 16:27:38
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
quote:
Originally posted by Grotesque
I wish there was NO EXPLAINATION to ANY FRANK BLACK SONG.
i think there's no ONE explaination to any Frank Black song, if that makes you feel better.
jamming good with Weird and Gilly
That's correct. I should have wrote: "Somebody comes and tell me it's both about an egyptian guru he met in Germany and his cousin who teaches swimming to def people. And every word counts for both of them."
That's a bit like, in a dream, a telephone is also a lighter and a banana. It makes sense only in this particular oniric place. |
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orchid
- FB Fan -
12 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 04:19:33
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quote:
Originally posted by bumblebeeboy2
Maybe they prefer lyrics like "he's got a brand new car, looks like a Jaguar"?
that's probably it. i can't see how FB's lyrics is annoying?!
wtf?! |
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 11:44:30
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quote:
Originally posted by orchid
quote:
Originally posted by bumblebeeboy2
Maybe they prefer lyrics like "he's got a brand new car, looks like a Jaguar"?
that's probably it. i can't see how FB's lyrics is annoying?!
wtf?!
I remember a review complaining about some lyrics of the "Cult of Ray" / "FB and the C" era. That they were too simple, classic songrwriting tips things like "been up, been down". A bit in the style of ZZ top or dire straits, if you know what I mean.
Personaly I like those simple writings like "You never heard about me". It's so basic you dont really know what it's about. |
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 19:11:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Zsolt G.
Nobody has mentioned how Frank's lyrics have been vastly different on his adult contemporary shit lately. I don't think he has a knack for a simple rhyme like, "I found my thrill, on blueberry hill" But I think he's good with the clever cryptic stuff like "I'm a pure denizen of the citizens band".
Exactly. I appreciated him trying to do something different, but sometimes it was as if he were revoking the originality that made him so great in the first place. |
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kfs
= Cult of Ray =
USA
889 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 06:46:17
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I can't generalize and say that Frank's lyrics are annoying. Literally the day before this topic appeared, I did say something about the way that sometimes small things in his songs annoy me. My example is 'You're Such a Wire.' I first time I heard this song I thought "You're such a wire? What does that mean? Who's says that?"
Whatever. It doesn't matter now. This has become one of my favorite FB songs. I've learned a lot from Frank!
______________________
I've seen blue you've never seen |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 06:56:34
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quote:
Originally posted by kfs
I can't generalize and say that Frank's lyrics are annoying. Literally the day before this topic appeared, I did say something about the way that sometimes small things in his songs annoy me. My example is 'You're Such a Wire.' I first time I heard this song I thought "You're such a wire? What does that mean? Who's says that?"
Whatever. It doesn't matter now. This has become one of my favorite FB songs. I've learned a lot from Frank!
______________________
I've seen blue you've never seen
What is a wire, anyway, kfs? I've never figured that out. For now, I just think it's annoying.
 Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
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Topic |
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Are FB's lyrics annoying?
