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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
 Posted - 09/12/2006 : 20:10:08
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What if Frank included no more than one total ear candy rock song on his records, starting today, to try and get a little radio love?
I'm sure Frank himself will be completely insulted by this senario, but it's just a hypothetical, fan to fan, stupid, bored off my ass, question.
You know damn well he could do it.... |
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jose
- FB Fan -
France
140 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 22:36:39
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May Be I'll kick out...
I said Pretty Please ! |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2006 : 22:39:46
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| every song Frank makes is an ear cany rock song (Honeycomb aside) |
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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1718 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 00:10:19
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Please define "ear candy rock song". Is that a good or a bad thing? What would we have to forgive Frank for, for including one or for not including more than one?
What a puzzling thread.
I am positively puzzled.
free music | Blackolero | Frank Black & Pixies Tributes |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 05:30:49
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You mean like Los Angeles and Headache?
I'm fine with him doing that. If it makes the man richer, good for him. He's earned it. I can't see him doing it these days, but I don't find that sort of thing offensive. He's still gonna put out a million "real" Frank songs, so if he wanted to sell some easy records in order to draw people to the rest of his songs, I wouldn't hold it against him.
 Shiny! |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 05:45:31
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Like I Don't Want To Hurt Yooooou, Every single time, no no.
 Hail to the king, baby! |
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 07:41:09
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quote:
Originally posted by coastline
You mean like Los Angeles and Headache?
I'm fine with him doing that. If it makes the man richer, good for him. He's earned it. I can't see him doing it these days, but I don't find that sort of thing offensive. He's still gonna put out a million "real" Frank songs, so if he wanted to sell some easy records in order to draw people to the rest of his songs, I wouldn't hold it against him.
Thank you Coastline for understanding this insanely complicated topic.
Just like Headache, yes. I'm not a fan who would be let down by this approach either. Some people would consider this the ultimate betrayal which I think is ridiculous. But then, this topic is pretty ridiculous.
I'm not saying Frank should sit down and purposely write a radio song. Maybe just to let the cheese flow if it wants to. I've written songs that I thought were absolute bubblegum when they were finished- Non representative of the band or my tastes. But the crowd calls them their favorites. Go figure. |
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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <
France
4233 Posts |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 08:12:56
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if los angeles and headache are total ear candy rock then i don't mind every single track being like that. why are those songs insulting?
FAST_MAN RAIDER_MAN - June 19th |
Edited by - PixieSteve on 09/13/2006 08:13:19 |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 08:33:50
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i really believe all his songs are "ear candy". I just always assumed that he wanted to be alt so he never was marketed in a mainstream way. even his most "mainstream" alub, yellow orange, wasn't marketed in a mainstream way. if he wants to come out with a poppy tun to compete w/ Justin Timeberlake or Brittney that wouldn't work. But if he's thinking of something like Pearl Jam or Red Hot Chilli Pepper's ways to go about marketing it, I definately think it would work. He's got the best chops out there and it's just a matter of how he wants to position himself.
so really to answer your question, yea if FB was more comercial that would be cool with me. (but if he does get really popular, i hope there'd be a fan club here so we could always get tickets) |
Edited by - Daisy Girl on 09/13/2006 08:37:04 |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 09:00:17
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Maybe we should define this term "ear candy." I take it to mean music that's instantly likeable, yet completely shallow. For me, that's the opposite of most of Frank Black's music. When I listen to a new Frank Black album, I might hear a small thing or two that hooks me right away, but usually it takes awhile for his songs to settle in. Maybe you're more in tune with Frank than I am, Daisy, and you discover the greatness of his songs right away, but for me, it's a process. And that's why I love the man. Still, like I said earlier, if he wants to record more accessible material in order to bring people to the rest of it, that's cool by me. The more people who tell me they like Frank Black, the more I think the world might be OK after all.
I didn't know you wrote/performed music, ScottP. Tell me more!
Shiny! |
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 09:17:20
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quote:
Originally posted by PixieSteve
Why are those songs insulting?
They're not. Not to me anyway.
All I'm saying here is if Frank sat on his couch with his uke and wrote another "I'm A Believer", or maybe "My Sharona" and released it (on an album full of quirky, angular, typical Frank stuff) for it's obvious marketability to the masses, would that piss you off?
Purely hypothetical here folks. Beats talking about Steve Erwin or 9/11 in my opinion. |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 09:47:48
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Headache and I Don't Want To Hurt You are not "ear candy" songs as I think Scott is attempting to define them. Headache is catchy and simple, but some of its lyrics are not. The song is simply not 'lowest commmon denominator" enough. Essentially, there is more than on layer to, and that is too many for the listening public at large to digest. The COR track may have less dense lyrics (though they're still pretty good. I love "my heart is just a muscle in a cavity"), but the songs structure is a little more complex than radio allows for.
As far as Scott's original question goes, no, I don't think I would forgive him. I think Frank should write whatever the hell he wants. But writing some pandering smarmy bullshit with the intent of specifically crafting something which would appeal to Top 40 listeners... Frank has spent his career shunning opportunities which would have provided a bigger paycheck because (I assume) he didn't feel comfortable with those options (ie. reuniting the Pixies before he was ready). If he writes a song that becomes successful, more power to him. If he writes a song in an attempt to be more sucessful... I can't cosign that. Here's my theory about art/morals/whatever:
The artist creates something they believe in and has meaning (to them), and hopes it might be profitable.
The corporate whore creates something they believe will be profitable, and if it has meaning, that's great, but it is hardly required.
he's back jack smoking crack find him if you want to get found
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 10:00:58
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quote:
Originally posted by speedy_m
Frank has spent his career shunning opportunities which would have provided a bigger paycheck because (I assume) he didn't feel comfortable with those options (ie. reuniting the Pixies before he was ready).
I don't think reuniting the Pixies was ever a sure thing financially. The Pixies themselves seemed as surprised as anyone that the Sellout Tour actually sold out.
I wonder, though -- if Frank Black set out to write ear candy, would he indeed be successful? Thousands of folks are trying to do just that, and they can't all be No. 1.
Shiny! |
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mrgrieves1971
= Cult of Ray =
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 10:08:30
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It's my understanding that Frank has two song writing credits on Ashlee Simpson's new album. I think they're called "Dance With Me" and "Cute Boy(I'm In Love With A)".
Hey, a guy needs to feed his family. |
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 10:11:14
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| Yes, but being #39 pays pretty good. It also exposes the rest of the catalog. |
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Billy Radcliffe
- FB Fan -
USA
145 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 10:20:07
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Here's a new spin on this topic.
I always used to only really like about half of the stuff I heard of FB. The stuff I liked, I liked alot, and what I didn't, I really didn't. I found out through the years, that the other songs were good too, I just didn't get them at the time. They all contained the genius I knew as Frank Black. For the past 3 years, Frank has been into the whole nashville sound, and I listen to it and I have just realized, that's why I don't get it, I was one of those who hated country. As far as the over all sound of frank black, I really get everything up to and incl. DITS which has some real country overtones in it. Well then it happened... I heard solo versions of these nashville songs and liked them. I see the Frank in the newer songs too now. By next year I will be able to really accept honeycomb and FMRM. It's just not the sound I am used to...
So...
If Frank started playing Bubblegum Pop, You might not get it. Maybe it will be Frank that shows you the value of Bubblegum Pop. And you would forgive him... As soon as you hear him do it solo. That's when you realize that it still the same old Frank. Just polished up and put into a different package than you are used to. And if Frank ever DID decide to sell out, I would try to realize that in the end he is a 50+ yr old man that would like to play his songs for you for HIS LIVING. He HAS shunned alot of opportunities to get rich, but if there ever came a day that he couldn't shun it because he has to play for a living, That's a little different too. What kind of retirement do you think Frank's shows will provide him? If it came down to that I say go make your money.
The Pixies songs weren't even sellout songs, but reunion sold out because Kurt Cobain made alot of people look at a band they never heard of, and that just broke up, so when they got back together "BANG" Sellout.
I think Frank would probably end up putting out more and more obscure albums to satisfy his ever growing muiscianship and end up losing half his fans, like Sting, before he would write the next "Here's your 3 minute top 10 wonder of the world sellout song"
...And if I'm right, the urban plight is not the problem. |
Edited by - Billy Radcliffe on 09/13/2006 10:36:34 |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2411 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 11:19:37
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| I just want him to keep writing, and releasing records. He seems to have high standards for himself, which is lacking in a great many people, so I'm not worried very much. |
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draculaheadphones
- FB Fan -
3 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 19:40:31
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| Maybe if he did a cover of The Car's "Just What I Needed" he could get a song on the radio. That song would really suit him. He would have to get the Catholics back together to record it though. |
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see you in tea
- FB Fan -
14 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2006 : 20:34:13
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| Headache is probably my least favorite song on Teenager of the Year, but I have to give the man credit for writing such timeless lyrics in it. He knew that myspace was some gay shit ten years before it was even conceived of! When I think about myspace, it gets me down, too! |
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Mickey
- FB Fan -
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 00:03:41
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I think that a lot of this kind of thing isn't intentionally "selling out", I think a lot of it has to do with luck. I think saying his lyrics are too complicated for the mainstream is both over and under estimating the mainstream. As long as the melody is catchy the song can be a hit. I mean, Smells Like Teen Spirit was, of course, a gigantic hit and most people don't know a single lyric from that song, but the moment it starts nearly everyone knows what it is. It seems to be all the luck of the draw somtimes, why did Bush have a million hits ripping off the Pixies in the mid 90s while at the same time Frank himself could barely get airplay at all ripping off the Pixies ("Men In Black", one of my favorite songs of all time, don't get me wrong)?
I guess what I'm trying to get at is that I believe Frank has written many songs that could/should have been radio hits, but for whatever reason (bad marketing? choosing the wrong song for the single?) never worked out for him. At least he has respect and the freedom to do whatever he wants with his career.
Also, I'd like to add that my first exposure to Frank Black was on the radio, Men in Black was a minor hit here locally in '96. I've since called that station many times to request Frank and have been told on more than one occasion "sure, but we Only have Los Angelos". The other day on the import/new release show they mentioned that Frank had a new album and was touring through town...and then played Los Angelos.
-Mickey |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 06:16:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Mickey
I think that a lot of this kind of thing isn't intentionally "selling out", I think a lot of it has to do with luck. I think saying his lyrics are too complicated for the mainstream is both over and under estimating the mainstream. As long as the melody is catchy the song can be a hit. I mean, Smells Like Teen Spirit was, of course, a gigantic hit and most people don't know a single lyric from that song, but the moment it starts nearly everyone knows what it is. It seems to be all the luck of the draw somtimes, why did Bush have a million hits ripping off the Pixies in the mid 90s while at the same time Frank himself could barely get airplay at all ripping off the Pixies ("Men In Black", one of my favorite songs of all time, don't get me wrong)?
I guess what I'm trying to get at is that I believe Frank has written many songs that could/should have been radio hits, but for whatever reason (bad marketing? choosing the wrong song for the single?) never worked out for him. At least he has respect and the freedom to do whatever he wants with his career.
Also, I'd like to add that my first exposure to Frank Black was on the radio, Men in Black was a minor hit here locally in '96. I've since called that station many times to request Frank and have been told on more than one occasion "sure, but we Only have Los Angelos". The other day on the import/new release show they mentioned that Frank had a new album and was touring through town...and then played Los Angelos.
-Mickey
While I agree in principle, Nirvana's lyrics, as well as their sound and aesthetic, defined a generation. People knew the lyrics were angsty and raw his mumbling was part of the appeal. Also, let's compare the look and packaging of Nirvana and especially Bush. Kurt was the anti-hero herion chic slacker and Gavin Rossdale is basically a model. If Frank were writing the Pixies rip off songs for Bush to sing, he would be a very rich songwriter.
he's back jack smoking crack find him if you want to get found
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 10:08:10
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quote:
Originally posted by coastline
I didn't know you wrote/performed music, ScottP. Tell me more!
Hell yes! I'm frikkin huge in Snohomish, WA. A smallish town of about 18,000 deaf elderly folks. |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 10:48:02
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I joined the Cult of ScottP. He's a sweet young lad.
Shiny! |
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Johnny Yen
= Cult of Ray =
USA
408 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 13:49:50
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As long as his next albums don't have a pair of ovaries strapped onto 'em like the last 2, i don't give a crap what he does.
If he writes a catchy rock song that makes it on the air, I'm for it. S'better than listening to more fucking Coldplay or Sheryl Crow or
I know promo cds are being shipped to AAA format radio stations here in the states, as that's how I got Honeycomb. Cool BLD & DW compilation, too. Obviously, the companies are trying to get Frank on the radio regardless of what songs he writes and how they're recorded. |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 18:47:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Yen
As long as his next albums don't have a pair of ovaries strapped onto 'em like the last 2, i don't give a crap what he does.
That's the best line I've ever seen on this board. I don't agree, but it's a hell of a line!
Shiny! |
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Waiting for Godot
- FB Fan -
Australia
21 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2006 : 19:06:36
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quote:
Originally posted by speedy_m
As far as Scott's original question goes, no, I don't think I would forgive him. I think Frank should write whatever the hell he wants. But writing some pandering smarmy bullshit with the intent of specifically crafting something which would appeal to Top 40 listeners... Frank has spent his career shunning opportunities which would have provided a bigger paycheck because (I assume) he didn't feel comfortable with those options (ie. reuniting the Pixies before he was ready). If he writes a song that becomes successful, more power to him. If he writes a song in an attempt to be more sucessful... I can't cosign that. Here's my theory about art/morals/whatever:
The artist creates something they believe in and has meaning (to them), and hopes it might be profitable.
The corporate whore creates something they believe will be profitable, and if it has meaning, that's great, but it is hardly required.
Nice one.
It's hard to address this question given Frank Black's career. From what I understand of his interviews, I think Frank just writes the suckers and then discusses what will work.
Think we all know the marketing (including PR) investment and contracts required to produce commercial music. Get a cool haircut and learn how to dance etc. I assume most artists who are desperate to get commercial airplay get a raw deal regarding how they present themselves. Not sure if Frank is into that.
That aside, I'd be interested to see if he could pull it off. The Man would need a makeover for the profitable segments. Maybe film the music clip in a nightclub with horny women grinding all over him? Lose the shitty shirt, though.
I agree with Mickey in that sometimes hits are based on luck - 'the biz' can be fickle. I'd like to see Oprah plug Fast Man Raider Man: watch sales go through the roof. |
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 15:12:55
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| It's my opinion that Ween did this with White Pepper. They made a record that was easy to listen to. It's still Ween and it still kicks ass, but I think they were trying to reach a larger audience. Not sure if it worked or not but it is a fine record. |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 20:10:22
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Coastline... good point about some songs taking awhile to sink in and really reveal the layers. I wouldn't say all are instant hits with me (many are), but i really think FB also knows the art of putting together an album that makes all the songs sound good and then, the appriciation grows from there.
I would just say if FB were to go more mainstream that i would hope that the basis of this material were original vs. covers. I know covers are huge right now, but from a selfish standpoint i prefer any frank original to any cover he could do.
Also along the lines of becoming more mainstream (and making more loot) i say if that's what fb wants, then i hope he gets it. i can't think of any other artist who deserves to cash in if he so wishes. maybe would be in the form of his original work or maybe even songwriting for others...i think most of the fans would simply hope he does what makes him and his family happy. |
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josephmichael
- FB Fan -
27 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2006 : 23:56:53
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| Ummm...."Here Comes Your Man" could easily fall into this category. It comes up in movies a lot, too. Along with Gigantic, it got me into the Pixies way back in 1989 so my opinion is, Frank has already written "ear candy rock" long ago and it made me respect him even more. |
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mr.biscuitdoughhead
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1729 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2006 : 06:33:19
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I still don't get it.
I think I'm just gonna let Frank do whatever he wants.
Cry me a juicebox! |
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Would you forgive Frank?
